Confused

[Wit]

Maybe this is by design but as a fan Im confused.

My eyes tell me that Zach Wilson is bad as a QB.

The articles tell me that he has "talent"

The articles also kind of blame MLF and his staff for not properly teaching Zach how to be QB.

So whats the move?

Do we Arizona Cardinals Zach and redraft (get a Vet while we keep buying lotto tickets?)

Or do we keep giving him more chances with a "better" staff.

 

[bla bla bla]

1 minute ago, Wit said:

Maybe this is by design but as a fan Im confused.

My eyes tell me that Zach Wilson is bad as a QB.

The articles tell me that he has "talent"

The articles also kind of blame MLF and his staff for not properly teaching Zach how to be QB.

So whats the move?

Do we Arizona Cardinals Zach and redraft (get a Vet while we keep buying lotto tickets?)

Or do we keep giving him more chances with a "better" staff.

 

We don't own the #1 pick and aren't switching HCs like the Cards did. We will get a vet cause Douglas and Saleh have their jobs on the line. Anything we get from Zach at this point is gravy.

[Wit]

Just now, bla bla bla said:

We don't own the #1 pick and aren't switching HCs like the Cards did. We will get a vet cause Douglas and Saleh have their jobs on the line. Anything we get from Zach at this point is gravy.

You think they would have given Rosen more time?

[ScarletKnight89]

You can have talent and be a bad QB. Zach Wilson has great arm strength and is pretty athletic. That doesn't mean he's a good QB. He's not.

[KRL]

Jared Goff was awful and considered a bust after his rookie year.
Jeff Fischer was fired and Sean McVay developed Goff where he led
LAR to a SB appearance.  I'm hoping a new OC/QB Coach can do the
same for Wilson but we can't rely on it.  So Douglas/Saleh has
to bring in two other options and have a three way battle in camp

[ASH1962]

All I know is, every playoff year I sit back and watch other teams excel, and wonder if and when it will ever be my turn. Watching Mahomey yesterday beat the Jaguars playing on 1 leg was just mind blowing to me. This has gone on for 54 years now with no end in sight.

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, Wit said:

You think they would have given Rosen more time?

They didnt want to destroy Rosen's trade value when a midget QB was available.

[bla bla bla]

4 minutes ago, Wit said:

You think they would have given Rosen more time?

I think if they used the 2nd overall pick on him, didn't fire their coach, and didn't own the #1 pick they would have tried for a 2nd year.

[Dunnie]

18 minutes ago, Wit said:

Maybe this is by design but as a fan Im confused.

My eyes tell me that Zach Wilson is bad as a QB.

The articles tell me that he has "talent"

The articles also kind of blame MLF and his staff for not properly teaching Zach how to be QB.

So whats the move?

Do we Arizona Cardinals Zach and redraft (get a Vet while we keep buying lotto tickets?)

Or do we keep giving him more chances with a "better" staff.

 

"Keep giving chances" suggests he has had more than one chance.  The reality seems to be he has never been coached up and has only played under one OC that had no clue how to develop talent. 

I can see and understand moving on ... similar to Arizona ... but I also have no problem at all with keeping ZW around to see if he emerges under new tutelage. Working his way up the depth cart over the next two years.

Edited January 22 by Dunnie

[HawkeyeJet]

Talent, when describing athletes, especially prospects=physical traits.  Zach has very good physical traits.  Huge arm, mobile, great release. 

He lacks severely in the harder to gauge intangible traits though.  Processing, awareness, poise.  

So what you get is a guy who has no idea what he’s doing back there trying to get by one physical talent alone, which doesn’t work at the QB position in the NFL

 

 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Front office: Zach was overdrafted by the gm as a raw player with arm talent, but inconsistent mechanics and a tenuous grasp of playing qb, which was largely masked by the level of talent disparity and playing behind a good OL for college. GM finally upgrades offense, but past draft sins and poor investments in the O-line and backup qb mean the team is dog sh*t on offense yet again 

Coaching staff: The coaching staff laid an egg after Knapp died and had absolute zero plan for developing zach for two years and handled his accountability in a different way than they handled every other position on the field breeding resentment. The team clearly mailed it in the last handful of games. 

It’s my opinion, but seems likely that the coaches think Zach sucks and the GM thinks the coaching staff dropped the ball in developing him, causing discord around what to do with LaFleur. 

fast forward to now, and we’re seeking a new OC with possibly a new scheme without a stable plan at qb in place. Not ideal. 

Both front office and Coach are legit on the hot seat to probably at least have to make the playoffs so they’re going to tout being a qb away from being a playoff team and probably go the vet qb route to get someone to save their jobs. 
 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Its really simple, you have two choices, you dump him via trade or release, or, you let the new coordinator try to fix him while a viable option at QB takes the job. If ZW shows in practice the light bulb went on and he seems to be on the right track, you see what you have with him, if not, you move on asap. 

[Bronx]

Zach's arm is hail-mary worthy.

[peebag]

33 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

All I know is, every playoff year I sit back and watch other teams excel, and wonder if and when it will ever be my turn. Watching Mahomey yesterday beat the Jaguars playing on 1 leg was just mind blowing to me. This has gone on for 54 years now with no end in sight.

Yep.

Zach bombing has set this team back 3-4 years.

We're going to have to rely on mediocre FA QBs until we can hit on another high QB draft pick.

This team is doomed.

[choon328]

36 minutes ago, KRL said:

Jared Goff was awful and considered a bust after his rookie year.
Jeff Fischer was fired and Sean McVay developed Goff where he led
LAR to a SB appearance.  I'm hoping a new OC/QB Coach can do the
same for Wilson but we can't rely on it.  So Douglas/Saleh has
to bring in two other options and have a three way battle in camp

This is literally the worst case scenario. 

[choon328]

32 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Talent, when describing athletes, especially prospects=physical traits.  Zach has very good physical traits.  Huge arm, mobile, great release. 

He lacks severely in the harder to gauge intangible traits though.  Processing, awareness, poise.  

So what you get is a guy who has no idea what he’s doing back there trying to get by one physical talent alone, which doesn’t work at the QB position in the NFL

 

 

Add in that's he severely inaccurate which negates that big arm. 

[Embrace the Suck]

49 minutes ago, Wit said:

Maybe this is by design but as a fan Im confused.

My eyes tell me that Zach Wilson is bad as a QB.

The articles tell me that he has "talent"

The articles also kind of blame MLF and his staff for not properly teaching Zach how to be QB.

So whats the move?

Do we Arizona Cardinals Zach and redraft (get a Vet while we keep buying lotto tickets?)

Or do we keep giving him more chances with a "better" staff.

 

You attempt to bring in a capable OC and a vet QB that can make a run with the team while the young and physically talented guy develops while learning behind the vet and from the OC. 

[HawkeyeJet]

13 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Add in that's he severely inaccurate which negates that big arm. 

His inaccuracy is a result of the awareness and poise issues.  Anyone can be accurate throwing something if they know and use proper mechanics.  It’s the ability to use them consistently that is the hard part.

[rex-n-effect]

I expect ZW returns as a reclamation project. Part of the problem with LaFleur and his staff is that no offensive player improved in two years. The guys who were good showed up that way. Several players got worse. There's a legitimate question whether ZW or the other young players had a meaningful opportunity to develop. Look at SF which runs the same offensive scheme and also had to play their third QB, who was the last in the draft, and they are closing in on another SB appearance. It seems probable that Douglas would bring back ZW for year three if only because it tells a consistent explanation that LaFleur is responsible and ZW could be better. 

That said, I don't expect the team to roll into the next year with ZW as the presumed starter or even just ZW and White.

[rangerous]

54 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Front office: Zach was overdrafted by the gm as a raw player with arm talent, but inconsistent mechanics and a tenuous grasp of playing qb, which was largely masked by the level of talent disparity and playing behind a good OL for college. GM finally upgrades offense, but past draft sins and poor investments in the O-line and backup qb mean the team is dog sh*t on offense yet again 

Coaching staff: The coaching staff laid an egg after Knapp died and had absolute zero plan for developing zach for two years and handled his accountability in a different way than they handled every other position on the field breeding resentment. The team clearly mailed it in the last handful of games. 

It’s my opinion, but seems likely that the coaches think Zach sucks and the GM thinks the coaching staff dropped the ball in developing him, causing discord around what to do with LaFleur. 

fast forward to now, and we’re seeking a new OC with possibly a new scheme without a stable plan at qb in place. Not ideal. 

Both front office and Coach are legit on the hot seat to probably at least have to make the playoffs so they’re going to tout being a qb away from being a playoff team and probably go the vet qb route to get someone to save their jobs. 
 

People seem to throw around the Knapp effect. Maybe but if milfy was so bad would there have been a clash? I’m guessing yes and the noisy room saleh quieted may have been cavanaugh telling milfy he was doing things wrong. Maybe cavanaugh was saying zwilson should sit his rookie year but milfy wouldn’t hear of it or was trying to please saleh.  Lots of stuff going on the past two seasons.

[Bleedin Green]

The idea that there's a single coach that can magically make any QB is a work of complete fiction, and the NFL has very clearly gone on the record showing that is what they all know to be the case, considering QBs are paid excessively more than their own head coaches, despite the former's pay actually being restricted by a salary cap, while the latter's is not.  That difference gets even more extreme when talking about offensive coordinators and QB coaches.

Meanwhile, if it's all coaching, then there's a lot of holes to fill in that story.  Did Belichick suddenly forget how to coach QBs?  Does McVay have bouts of temporary amnesia where he alternates between being a QB guru and having no idea what he's doing?  Did Daboll have QB coaching slip his mind yesterday (and for more than a decade preceding Josh Allen's arrival)?

That's not to say coaching can't be of assistance to players on a relative scale but the idea that the entirety of a player's performance is dictated by coaching is a nonsensical concept with nothing to support it.  Wilson is absolutely terrible at his job, the worst in the league at it in fact, and the reason for that is Wilson himself, while the biggest issue for the Jets is him being on the roster in the first place.

[NYDreamer]

I would bring in Chad Pennington as the QB coach and let him work with Zach.  Let Frank Reich take the OC helm.

[Integrity28]

Talent and skill are not the same. Every NFL player has talent in varying degrees, or they would not have made it to the pros.

Not every player possesses the skill to play the game at this level. No matter how talented.

[oatmeal]

10 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

The idea that there's a single coach that can magically make any QB is a work of complete fiction, and the NFL has very clearly gone on the record showing that is what they all know to be the case, considering QBs are paid excessively more than their own head coaches, despite the former's pay actually being restricted by a salary cap, while the latter's is not.  That difference gets even more extreme when talking about offensive coordinators and QB coaches.

Meanwhile, if it's all coaching, then there's a lot of holes to fill in that story.  Did Belichick suddenly forget how to coach QBs?  Does McVay have bouts of temporary amnesia where he alternates between being a QB guru and having no idea what he's doing?  Did Daboll have QB coaching slip his mind yesterday (and for more than a decade preceding Josh Allen's arrival)?

That's not to say coaching can't be of assistance to players on a relative scale but the idea that the entirety of a player's performance is dictated by coaching is a nonsensical concept with nothing to support it.  Wilson is absolutely terrible at his job, the worst in the league at it in fact, and the reason for that is Wilson himself, while the biggest issue for the Jets is him being on the roster in the first place.

That crap is just bush league fan fiction, you know how many people are going to die on the hill that zach and the offense problems stem from Knapps death. 
 

You know scrubs like JD and Saleh love when the fans eat up that crap because it buys them more time 

[UntouchableCrew]

I strongly suspect the lip service being paid to ZW is an attempt to keep any kind of trade value alive.

The guy lost the locker room. He's not going to be the QB in 2023.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

2 hours ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Front office: Zach was overdrafted by the gm as a raw player with arm talent, but inconsistent mechanics and a tenuous grasp of playing qb, which was largely masked by the level of talent disparity and playing behind a good OL for college. GM finally upgrades offense, but past draft sins and poor investments in the O-line and backup qb mean the team is dog sh*t on offense yet again 

Coaching staff: The coaching staff laid an egg after Knapp died and had absolute zero plan for developing zach for two years and handled his accountability in a different way than they handled every other position on the field breeding resentment. The team clearly mailed it in the last handful of games. 

It’s my opinion, but seems likely that the coaches think Zach sucks and the GM thinks the coaching staff dropped the ball in developing him, causing discord around what to do with LaFleur. 

fast forward to now, and we’re seeking a new OC with possibly a new scheme without a stable plan at qb in place. Not ideal. 

Both front office and Coach are legit on the hot seat to probably at least have to make the playoffs so they’re going to tout being a qb away from being a playoff team and probably go the vet qb route to get someone to save their jobs. 
 

MiLF pounded the table for Zach calling him perfect for his system.

Zach was an organizational choice.  JD didn't go rogue. 

[UnknownJetFan]

2 hours ago, KRL said:

Jared Goff was awful and considered a bust after his rookie year.
Jeff Fischer was fired and Sean McVay developed Goff where he led
LAR to a SB appearance.  I'm hoping a new OC/QB Coach can do the
same for Wilson but we can't rely on it.  So Douglas/Saleh has
to bring in two other options and have a three way battle in camp

Correct. Honestly if someone can mainly get Zak to complete short passes consistently he would be much better.

[Larz]

Talent without confidence and wits is wasted. 
 

His contract is the problem.  It’s fully guaranteed.  If he had Strevelers contract he would have been cut after the cheaters debacle.  

[SCRUNO]

I would just like to see Zach develop into a good QB someday. I don’t care what type of family you were born into, having to deal with the pressure put on him by the media in NY, etc at age 22 has to **** with your head. Even rich kids get depressed, commit suicide, and have mental issues. I can’t imagine he wants this to be happening to him. I’m disappointed with his play so far but I’m also not the fan that “lives and dies” everything Jets. I wish him the best and the same goes all the players on the team. 

[Beerfish]

Wilson is bad and the Jets will go and get a viable QB this off season.

Joe Douglas is no fool and is not going to just dump the guy though.  He is an asset and worst comes to worst he leaves in a few years but he may find value at some point in time.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

4 hours ago, Wit said:

Maybe this is by design but as a fan Im confused.

My eyes tell me that Zach Wilson is bad as a QB.

The articles tell me that he has "talent"

The articles also kind of blame MLF and his staff for not properly teaching Zach how to be QB.

So whats the move?

Do we Arizona Cardinals Zach and redraft (get a Vet while we keep buying lotto tickets?)

Or do we keep giving him more chances with a "better" staff.

 

I wanted Wilson to succeed as much as anyone.  He has a great arm, but that’s it.  He’s not accurate at all, can’t Read an NFL D if his life depended on it.

Also I think I could step into Wilson’s shoes and hit dump off passes with a higher completion rate than he can, seriously.  That seals the deal.  He doesn’t belong on an NFL roster.

[Charlie Brown]

3 hours ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Its really simple, you have two choices, you dump him via trade or release, or, you let the new coordinator try to fix him while a viable option at QB takes the job. If ZW shows in practice the light bulb went on and he seems to be on the right track, you see what you have with him, if not, you move on asap. 

This is a very good post.

Yet, some keep acting like the coaching staff wasn't ALL IN, on drafting Zach Wilson. Like they along with the GM didn't pick Wilson over Justin Fields who many of us (ME) wanted.

When we brought up the fact that Zach wasn't a Captain on his BYU team and had leadership problems we were shouted down. 

When we said he looked good but that he should be drafted lower because of his competition concerns we were said that didn't matter; and more importantly that Justin Fields outplaying Trevor Lawrence in BIG GAMES  was to be discounted.

When we said that Zach needed REAL coaching because he was a smaller player and that he should SIT AND WATCH, we were assured that Mike LeFleur, who continuously praised Wilson about his football acumen and his ability to be a quick study, we now come to find out that MLF ran gimmicky plays for Zach in the preseason, that fooled people like me, only to have LeFleur NOW claim that Zach was not grasping the offense, playing poorly and couldn't hit anything in practice. 

And yet all of this was happening with MLF NOT EVEN TELLING Zach what to do, and that he was doing anything WRONG!!!!  They are INSANE, they were told by FANS that this could happen as @Sperm Edwards pointed out in another thread concerning this coaching staff's  ARROGANCE!!!

So No I don't know if Wilson will BE anything good, cause right now the trend is Zach is busting, but under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should this coaching staff be permitted to act like JD foisted some bum QB on them against their will when they were the ones riding Zach's jock from the start!!

[choon328]

1 hour ago, SCRUNO said:

I would just like to see Zach develop into a good QB someday. I don’t care what type of family you were born into, having to deal with the pressure put on him by the media in NY, etc at age 22 has to **** with your head. Even rich kids get depressed, commit suicide, and have mental issues. I can’t imagine he wants this to be happening to him. I’m disappointed with his play so far but I’m also not the fan that “lives and dies” everything Jets. I wish him the best and the same goes all the players on the team. 

Then you're not a fan

[SCRUNO]

15 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Then you're not a fan

Good to know, putz.

[Embrace the Suck]

3 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

The idea that there's a single coach that can magically make any QB is a work of complete fiction,

Correct, expecting a player to magically play better as though you can simply flip a switch is ridiculous. However, over two years with a plan, practice, and coaching you can expect a player to develop to an extent as opposed to regressing. If a player is at fault because they just don't care enough that is often obvious to those involved. Also, you could potentially get somewhat immediate results by playing to your players' strengths, but you have to do that before everything turns to sh*t.