Josh Allen

[heymangold]

Just now, Facts said:

I wanted to draft Allen so bad. I wish he wasn’t on a divisional team because i’ve kinda become an Allen stan, and he is better than Burrow.

i guess we'll agree to disagree.  maybe when allen brings his team to a super bowl we can revisit this topic.

[chirorob]

46 minutes ago, Facts said:

They didn’t “almost” win anything. They were losing at halftime and lost the game. The Rams lead almost the entire game and Burrow’s offense put up a total of 20 points.

The Rams took the lead with 1:25 left in the game.  If you are winning a game with a minute 30 left, it is almost winning.

That being said, they lost.

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Facts said:

I did. Look at my post above. 

Burrows defense has carried him in almost every playoff game. He has 0 games with 3 TD’s. Only 1 game over 300 yards. He averages 1.5 TD per playoff game. 

Mahomes and Allen blow those numbers out of the water. But their defenses aren’t as good in the playoffs as Burrows is.

If Burrows defense gave up 34 points to the Chiefs like Allen’s defense did, does Burrow go to the Super Bowl? No. THAT is context.

It’s almost as if a whole science has been developed to do this for us.  If only I could remember its name.

[Facts]

19 minutes ago, heymangold said:

i guess we'll agree to disagree.  maybe when allen brings his team to a super bowl we can revisit this topic.

Did Burrow "bring" his team to the Super Bowl? Or was he along for the ride? 5 TD's in 4 games...

[heymangold]

2 minutes ago, Facts said:

Did Burrow "bring" his team to the Super Bowl? Or was he along for the ride? 5 TD's in 4 games...

oh so it's the teams fault that allen was horrible this past weekend.  got it.

[Facts]

8 minutes ago, heymangold said:

oh so it's the teams fault that allen was horrible this past weekend.  got it.

Nice change of subject!

[pointman]

33 minutes ago, heymangold said:

i guess we'll agree to disagree.  maybe when allen brings his team to a super bowl we can revisit this topic.

So, never. Got it.

[freestater]

All I care is that Allen gets a lot more expensive this year and forward. Hopefully it keeps the bills from being able to keep a very good team around him. 

[neckdemon]

2 hours ago, Facts said:

I wanted to draft Allen so bad. I wish he wasn’t on a divisional team because i’ve kinda become an Allen stan, and he is better than Burrow.

disagree. allen is pretty good, burrow is better. if i am putting a team together i'd rather have burrow. 

[Facts]

1 hour ago, neckdemon said:

disagree. allen is pretty good, burrow is better. if i am putting a team together i'd rather have burrow. 

Based on what?

Not stats, Allen has those.

Not playoff stats. Allen has those.

Not wins. Allen has a win % of .675 and Burrow is .585

Burrow has a better defense though.

[OMA]

where are you coming up with a .428 winning percentage.  

[Facts]

26 minutes ago, OMA said:

where are you coming up with a .428 winning percentage.  

You should quote people if you want them to see it.

Just mis-copied.

Burrow has a .585 win percentage. Allen has a .675 win percentage.

 

 

[neckdemon]

52 minutes ago, Facts said:

Based on what?

Not stats, Allen has those.

Not playoff stats. Allen has those.

Not wins. Allen has a win % of .677 and Burrow is .428

Burrow has a better defense though.

lets base it on superbowl stats. oh wait burrow is the only one who has been there between the 2. ok lets base it on championship games.....oh wait allen lost the only one he has been in while burrow won. how about i just base it on watching them play and i think burrow is a superior quarterback. you are welcome to your opinion and the best part is you don't even have to try to prove to me why you think so because idgaf.

[Facts]

51 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

lets base it on superbowl stats and winning the afccg

In that case Trent Dilfer is better than Allen too. Heck, Jeff Hostetler is better than Marino by that basis.

Great argument!

[neckdemon]

1 hour ago, Facts said:

In that case Trent Dilfer is better than Allen too. Heck, Jeff Hostetler is better than Marino by that basis.

Great argument!

i mean the argument is as meaningful as listening to a democrat argue with a republican about issues because no one is gonna convince the other of anything. 
but we can always just base it on the game they just played against eachother where allen played rather poorly and burrow and put his team on the path to the superbowl....again.
but in reality i just base it on what i see when i watch them play.....and i think burrow is a better qb. thats it. and i couldnt care less if you agree

i mean your argument basically proves that allen is a stat compiler who hasn't won when it counts. so there's that

one last thing. buffalo's defense was better than the bengal's defense this year and the year before ohh and the year before that, lol. so your argument that the bengals have a better defense makes zero sense

[Facts]

39 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

but we can always just base it on the game they just played against eachother where allen played rather poorly and burrow and put his team on the path to the superbowl....again.

By that metric, Mark Sanchez is better than Tom Brady because he beat him in the 2010 playoffs.

Oh and Peyton Manning too!

Quote

i mean your argument basically proves that allen is a stat compiler who hasn't won when it counts

OR it proves that Burrow can't put up those stats and he relies on his defense to win games. 

Since, ya know, Allen has a higher win % AND has 2 playoff LOSSES where he scored more points than Burrow scores on his average. Let me translate that for you - if Allen had Burrow's defense, those 2 L's would be W's.

[neckdemon]

53 minutes ago, Facts said:

By that metric, Mark Sanchez is better than Tom Brady because he beat him in the 2010 playoffs.

Oh and Peyton Manning too!

OR it proves that Burrow can't put up those stats and he relies on his defense to win games. 

Since, ya know, Allen has a higher win % AND has 2 playoff LOSSES where he scored more points than Burrow scores on his average. Let me translate that for you - if Allen had Burrow's defense, those 2 L's would be W's.

again the bills' defense has been better than the bengals' defense for at least the past 3 years (i didn't bother to go back further since burrow has only been in the league for 3 years) that both qbs have been in the league. so despite joe burrow being the league for 2 less years (one of which he got seriously hurt) he has a better playoff record 5-1 to allen's 4-4 and has already made 2 championship games and 1 superbowl. so in 2 less years he has had significantly more playoffs success. idk what you think you are proving here. 
also you can't say that allen would have won those games with the bengals' defense even if it were better than the bills' defense (which it hasn't been but whatever). that's not how this works. your attempts at proving your argument have failed miserably. you can't inject hypotheticals into this and then make assumptions and proclaim them to be a fact......it's just stupid 
last but not least football isn't a game of stats comparison. again that's not how this works.

[Facts]

13 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

the bills' defense has been better than the bengals' defense for at least the past 3 years

Not in the playoffs. Look at the Bills defense in the playoffs the last few seasons. They suck. Meanwhile Cinci’s defense has dominated.

13 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

he has a better playoff record 5-1 to allen's 4-4 and has already made 2 championship games and 1 superbowl.

Yeah this is the same regurgitated Mark Sanchez argument. You must have loved him. He had a great playoff record after the 2009 and 2010 season. In fact his playoff record was only 1 game different than Burrows right now.

13 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

even if it were better than the bills' defense (which it hasn't been but whatever)

Uh, yeah, it has.

Bengals defense averages 18 points given up per game in the playoffs in Burrow’s career

Allen’s defense averages 26 points given up per game in the playoffs in Allen’s career.

That’s a GIGANTIC difference. 26 to 18!

Now let’s look on offense…

Allen averages 26 points scored per playoff game. Burrow averages 22.5 points scored per playoff game.

Allen scores 3.5 MORE points per playoff game than Burrow, but his defense gives up 8 more points per game than Burrows.

You don’t need to be a genius to see what’s going on here.

13 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

that's not how this works. you attempts at proving your argument have failed miserably. 

That’s hilarious coming from the guy who is using arguments that make Trent Dilfer better than Dan Marino and Mark Sanchez better than Peyton Manning.

Ive spelled it out for you. Burrow’s defense holds opponents to 18 points per game in the  playoffs. Allen’s gives up 26. Allen scores MORE points per playoff game than Burrow, but Allen loses because of his defense. These aren’t hypotheticals - they’re facts. It just takes someone who knows football to understand them.

Live look at me slapping you around in this debate:

[neckdemon]

7 minutes ago, Facts said:

Not in the playoffs. Look at the Bills defense in the playoffs the last few seasons. They suck. Meanwhile Cinci’s defense has dominated.

Yeah this is the regurgitated Mark Sanchez argument. You must have loved him. He had a great playoff record after the 2009 and 2010 season.

Uh, yeah, it has.

Bengals defense averages 18 points given up per game in the playoffs in Burrow’s career

Allen’s defense averages 26 points given up per game in Allen’s career.

That’s a GIGANTIC difference.

Allen averages 26 points scored per playoff game. Burrow averages 22.5 points scored per playoff game.

Allen scores 3.5 MORE points per playoff game than Burrow, but his defense gives up 8 more points per game than Burrows.

You don’t need to be a genius to see what’s going on here.

That’s hilarious coming from the guy who is using arguments that make Trent Dilfer better than Dan Marino and Mark Sanchez better than Peyton Manning.

Ive spelled it out for you. Burrow’s defense holds offenses to 18 points per game in the  playoffs. Allen’s gives up 26. Allen scores MORE points than Burrow, but Allen losing because of his defense. These aren’t hypotheticals - they’re facts. It just takes someone who knows football to understand them.

based on your posts on this subject you don't know football. you only regurgitate stats and think thats how this works. they played different teams, with different players, under different circumstances, in different conditions at different times. all this stuff matters. your analysis is just pure garbage

all that said...i think josh allen is pretty damn good qb....i just like joe burrow better. 

[Facts]

2 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

i just like joe burrow better. 

You should have just stuck with that instead of the ridiculous Trent Dilfer and Mark Sanchez arguments.

[neckdemon]

5 minutes ago, Facts said:

You should have just stuck with that instead of the ridiculous Trent Dilfer and Mark Sanchez arguments.

the facetiousness of that kinda went over your head. my point was that what you were trying to solely base it on was flawed and that there is a lot more to it, but you didn't get what i was saying so whatever

[Facts]

23 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

the facetiousness of that kinda went over your head. my point was that what you were trying to solely base it on was flawed and that there is a lot more to it, but you didn't get what i was saying so whatever

Stats, win %, and defensive performance are all flawed.

The only thing that matters is the playoff record after 1.5 playoffs where Sanchez also had a great playoff record.

Brilliant!

[freestater]

2 hours ago, Facts said:

Not in the playoffs. Look at the Bills defense in the playoffs the last few seasons. They suck. Meanwhile Cinci’s defense has dominated.

Yeah this is the same regurgitated Mark Sanchez argument. You must have loved him. He had a great playoff record after the 2009 and 2010 season. In fact his playoff record was only 1 game different than Burrows right now.

Uh, yeah, it has.

Bengals defense averages 18 points given up per game in the playoffs in Burrow’s career

Allen’s defense averages 26 points given up per game in the playoffs in Allen’s career.

That’s a GIGANTIC difference. 26 to 18!

Now let’s look on offense…

Allen averages 26 points scored per playoff game. Burrow averages 22.5 points scored per playoff game.

Allen scores 3.5 MORE points per playoff game than Burrow, but his defense gives up 8 more points per game than Burrows.

You don’t need to be a genius to see what’s going on here.

That’s hilarious coming from the guy who is using arguments that make Trent Dilfer better than Dan Marino and Mark Sanchez better than Peyton Manning.

Ive spelled it out for you. Burrow’s defense holds opponents to 18 points per game in the  playoffs. Allen’s gives up 26. Allen scores MORE points per playoff game than Burrow, but Allen loses because of his defense. These aren’t hypotheticals - they’re facts. It just takes someone who knows football to understand them.

Live look at me slapping you around in this debate:

You gave a laugh emoji to your own post?

[neckdemon]

2 hours ago, Facts said:

Stats, win %, and defensive performance are all flawed.

The only thing that matters is the playoff record after 1.5 playoffs where Sanchez also had a great playoff record.

Brilliant!

somehow it's still whizzing right over head even though i practically lock-on targeted it. not much more to say here......at this point i am anally raping the beaten dead horse

[neckdemon]

41 minutes ago, freestater said:

You gave a laugh emoji to your own post?

that was a mistake he meant to give it a "doh" emoji

[Facts]

1 hour ago, freestater said:

You gave a laugh emoji to your own post?

What?

[Facts]

21 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

somehow it's still whizzing right over head even though i practically lock-on targeted it. not much more to say here......at this point i am anally raping the beaten dead horse

lmao

[PFSIKH]

19 hours ago, Facts said:

Based on what?

Not stats, Allen has those.

Not playoff stats. Allen has those.

Not wins. Allen has a win % of .675 and Burrow is .585

Burrow has a better defense though.

There are flaws in your numbers arguments.  Look at the numbers relative to their point in their careers.  Barring unforeseen circumstances, Josh will always have a two year head start on Joe.

Stats.  After three seasons, Joe's numbers are better.  More yards.  More TDs.  Same amount of INTs despite Joe having 200ish more passes.  Now, lets carry this out, what Joe has did in his 2nd and 3rd years, Josh is doing in years 3 through 5.  Granted, Josh needed a crap ton more refinement to get where he is than Joe.  

Playoff stats.  Again, after three seasons (two playoff appearances), Josh averages nine more yards passing a game.  Both TD to INT ratios are good Joe 8-2 to Josh 5-1.   Most telling stat, Joe has three games with a 100+ QB rating.  5 of his 6 games, so far, are above 90.  By comparison, Josh had one 100+ and three of his four were under 90.  

Wins.  Josh does have a slight advantage here 30-17 (28-15 RS ; 2-2 playoffs) to Joe's 29-18-1 (24-17-1; 5-1).  However, Joe's record looks better considering he took over a 2-14 team while Josh took over a wildcard team.

Joe is a better QB.  Josh will always be more athletic and able to extend plays with his legs.  If there was a poll asking who you would want to build your franchise arounf Joe or Josh among the other 29 teams (KC excluded).  I think Joe would win.  I would not say it is a landslide as some would sacrifice Allen's slightly lower passing ability for his athleticism, but Joe wins.

[Ron Rico]

I can't believe someone actually thinks that Josh Allen is better than Joe Burrow.

[Facts]

1 hour ago, PFSIKH said:

There are flaws in your numbers arguments.  Look at the numbers relative to their point in their careers.  Barring unforeseen circumstances, Josh will always have a two year head start on Joe.

Stats.  After three seasons, Joe's numbers are better.  More yards.  More TDs.  Same amount of INTs despite Joe having 200ish more passes.  Now, lets carry this out, what Joe has did in his 2nd and 3rd years, Josh is doing in years 3 through 5.  Granted, Josh needed a crap ton more refinement to get where he is than Joe.  

Playoff stats.  Again, after three seasons (two playoff appearances), Josh averages nine more yards passing a game.  Both TD to INT ratios are good Joe 8-2 to Josh 5-1.   Most telling stat, Joe has three games with a 100+ QB rating.  5 of his 6 games, so far, are above 90.  By comparison, Josh had one 100+ and three of his four were under 90.  

Wins.  Josh does have a slight advantage here 30-17 (28-15 RS ; 2-2 playoffs) to Joe's 29-18-1 (24-17-1; 5-1).  However, Joe's record looks better considering he took over a 2-14 team while Josh took over a wildcard team.

Joe is a better QB.  Josh will always be more athletic and able to extend plays with his legs. 

We were talking about playoff stats PER game. Not regular season stats.

Allen averages more yards per game, more TD’s per game, and more points per game in the playoffs than Burrow.

No amount of “blah blah blah” can change that. You want to talk about ratios and QB rating (a literally made up formula that has Matt Schaub in front of Dan Marino)  instead of what the basic stats of football actually say.

More yards.

More TD’s

More points.

On a per game basis AND on a total basis.

If you want to excuse all of that away, don’t even bother responding. It would be a waste of both our time.

1 hour ago, PFSIKH said:

 

If there was a poll asking who you would want to build your franchise arounf Joe or Josh among the other 29 teams (KC excluded).  I think Joe would win.  

Uh, this DID happen. 

The Athletic polled 50 NFL coaches executives just a few months ago, and asked them to rank the QB’s.

Allen not only was above Burrow, he was TWO spots above Burrow. It even included quotes from coaches, one who said this about Burrow: “He predetermines a lot of his quick game. They’ll spread it out and try to show him the picture. When you can change the look for him, I think the kid locks in and some of these guys. Once you get a book on them a little bit, you can make these guys struggle a little. I’m not saying this is a guy you are going to take off the map.”

So yeah, NFL teams agree with me. Burrow is good. No doubt. But he has an all star cast on offense around him and a great defense in the playoffs.

to be honest, I’d be happy with either one

[OMA]

12 minutes ago, Facts said:

We were talking about playoff stats PER game. Not regular season stats.

Allen averages more yards per game, more TD’s per game, and more points per game in the playoffs than Burrow.

No amount of “blah blah blah” can change that. You want to talk about ratios and QB rating (a literally made up formula that has Matt Schaub in front of Dan Marino)  instead of what the basic stats of football actually say.

More yards.

More TD’s

More points.

On a per game basis AND on a total basis.

If you want to excuse all of that away, don’t even bother responding. It would be a waste of both our time.

Uh, this DID happen. 

The Athletic polled 50 NFL coaches executives just a few months ago, and asked them to rank the QB’s.

Allen not only was above Burrow, he was TWO spots above Burrow.

I think some of those asked a few months ago have likely changed opinions.  I'd take either but just like Burrow's game more.  Accuracy and decision making being key.

[Facts]

22 minutes ago, OMA said:

I think some of those asked a few months ago have likely changed opinions.  I'd take either but just like Burrow's game more.  Accuracy and decision making being key.

They do it every year so we'll find out next season.

[PFSIKH]

5 hours ago, Facts said:

We were talking about playoff stats PER game. Not regular season stats.

Allen averages more yards per game, more TD’s per game, and more points per game in the playoffs than Burrow.

No amount of “blah blah blah” can change that. You want to talk about ratios and QB rating (a literally made up formula that has Matt Schaub in front of Dan Marino)  instead of what the basic stats of football actually say.

More yards.

More TD’s

More points.

On a per game basis AND on a total basis.

If you want to excuse all of that away, don’t even bother responding. It would be a waste of both our time.

Uh, this DID happen. 

The Athletic polled 50 NFL coaches executives just a few months ago, and asked them to rank the QB’s.

Allen not only was above Burrow, he was TWO spots above Burrow. It even included quotes from coaches, one who said this about Burrow: “He predetermines a lot of his quick game. They’ll spread it out and try to show him the picture. When you can change the look for him, I think the kid locks in and some of these guys. Once you get a book on them a little bit, you can make these guys struggle a little. I’m not saying this is a guy you are going to take off the map.”

So yeah, NFL teams agree with me. Burrow is good. No doubt. But he has an all star cast on offense around him and a great defense in the playoffs.

to be honest, I’d be happy with either one

The total number argument is dumb unless you are comparing through 10 games, etc.

How over inflated are Josh's numbers due to last year?  A lot.

Josh was incredible in 2021.  Joe has never done that.  He might not ever.

When you subtract last year, Josh numbers look just like Joe's if not a little worse in some regards.  

Yes, Josh had 9 passing TDs last year, but in his other 6 career playoff games, he has 8.  Just like Joe.  Points?  The Bills scored 83 last year.  In his other 6 games?  131.  Or 21.8   Joe has 23.8. 

We can agree on one thing.  I would be happy with both as well.

[VJphillyfan]

On 1/25/2023 at 8:21 PM, Facts said:

I don’t see it. Burrow seems like he is carried more by his team than him carrying his team. Imagine an offense with Chase, Higgins, Boyd and Mixon. With that stacked offense, Burrow had the same amount of TD’s as Allen who only has Diggs. 

 

Chris, you lost all credibility as a qb evaluator when u confidently screamed for 2 years Dutch Boy was a better prospect than Trevor Lawrence

[Facts]

Josh Allen > Joe Burrow

Burrow was ass today, but he is “meh” in every playoff game. Burrow has relied on his defense in EVERY playoff game but this time his defense didn’t bail him out.

Playoff Stats

Allen: 20 TD’s, 4 INT (in 8 games)

Burrow: 10 TD’s, 4 INT (in 7 games)