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Jets Competition for Carr


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32 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Mike White vs the Bengals last year looked pretty decent on a far less talented team.

Basically I think our defense is so good, they can have us in any game. Our offense just has to be alright to be competitive.

Yeah, you’re digging up individual games from a team that spent 90-95% of the cap on non-QB’s though. Carr cuts that to 80%, and the team needs to be a one seed or win four consecutive games against playoff teams.

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4 hours ago, Jets Things said:

Seems quarterbacks can be found in late rounds, so probably not before the fifth round. Tom Brady says hey. Just need the right staff to develop. 

I’m going to cash in my 401k and buy lotto tickets because that powerball winner says hey

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1 minute ago, derp said:

I’d rather chase a Super Bowl and fail than chase a playoff spot with no chance of a Super Bowl. You’re entitled to your perspective, too. I think it’s a personal preference, to be honest. But that’s my perspective.

Every team that makes the playoffs each year has a chance to make the Super Bowl.  Every team that doesn’t make the playoffs has ZERO chance of making the Super Bowl.

Anyone labeling a Carr acquisition as having ZERO chance of winning a SB is full of it.  We could easily make the playoffs, if he continues playing the way he’s been the passed nine years and the rest of the team improves even a little bit.

All that’s needed then is a little Eli Manning/Mark Sanchez-esque magic to make a SB.  Idk how anyone would say no to that.  It’s been 12 years.

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1 minute ago, jgb said:

I’m going to cash in my 401k and buy lotto tickets because that powerball winner says hey

And the funny thing is Brock Purdy isn't even all that good, lol.

So he's counting on the Jets finding the next Tom Brady, who had Belichick and institutional cheating on his side much of his career anyways, by using a midround pick on a QB every year.  Awesome plan!!!

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2 minutes ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

Every team that makes the playoffs each year has a chance to make the Super Bowl.  Every team that doesn’t make the playoffs has ZERO chance of making the Super Bowl.

Anyone labeling a Carr acquisition as having ZERO chance of winning a SB is full of it.  We could easily make the playoffs, if he continues playing the way he’s been the passed nine years and the rest of the team improves even a little bit.

All that’s needed then is a little Eli Manning/Mark Sanchez-esque magic to make a SB.  Idk how anyone would say no to that.  It’s been 12 years.

“We can’t win it all” is just emotional salve to justify the last 12 wasted years “sure we are the worst team in the league but we weren’t winning a ring anyway so no huge loss.”

Successful season means making post season. After that is gravy. 

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And the funny thing is Brock Purdy isn't even all that good, lol.

So he's counting on the Jets finding the next Tom Brady, who had Belichick and institutional cheating on his side much of his career anyways, by using a midround pick on a QB every year.  Awesome plan!!!

I’m all for drafting QBs late as a low risk supplement to searching for one through higher-percentage plays (e.g., trade/early in draft/FA).

Kind of like it’s fine to buy lottery tickets but don’t quit your job until you actually win.

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3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And the funny thing is Brock Purdy isn't even all that good, lol.

So he's counting on the Jets finding the next Tom Brady, who had Belichick and institutional cheating on his side much of his career anyways, by using a midround pick on a QB every year.  Awesome plan!!!

You need a high level developing QB behind  your FQB   you gotta be able to move on in the case of a ridiculous contract demand or injury.

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1 minute ago, Dunnie said:

You need a high level developing QB behind  your FQB   you gotta be able to move on in the case of a ridiculous contract demand or injury.

Thank you. Been saying it for years. The Jets just keep falling into the dumb “all eggs in new unproven basket” approach

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3 minutes ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

Every team that makes the playoffs each year has a chance to make the Super Bowl.  Every team that doesn’t make the playoffs has ZERO chance of making the Super Bowl.

Anyone labeling a Carr acquisition as having ZERO chance of winning a SB is full of it.  We could easily make the playoffs, if he continues playing the way he’s been the passed nine years and the rest of the team improves even a little bit.

All that’s needed then is a little Eli Manning/Mark Sanchez-esque magic to make a SB.  Idk how anyone would say no to that.  It’s been 12 years.

Yes, that is the literal interpretation. So from a literal standpoint, I’d rather chase being a legitimate Super Bowl contender than be a long shot that needs a magical run through a loaded AFC. 

I don’t know how the team gets better when it can’t afford him under the cap and guys decline all the time. And that leaves the team two big if’s away from needing a magical run with a likely declining quarterback and the need to push money around.

I’ll root like crazy for it to happen if they acquire him, but I think Carr is for the fans that are happy with a playoff run rather than being a legitimate contender. And there’s nothing wrong with feeling that way as a fan, it’s just now how I feel as a fan.

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6 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

You need a high level developing QB behind  your FQB   you gotta be able to move on in the case of a ridiculous contract demand or injury.

That's fine but he seemed to be saying just draft a QB every year until you find one, with no actual plan A/B with the rookies.  No bridge QB, nothing.

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36 minutes ago, derp said:

In my opinion? Rodgers, Jackson, draft pick. All probably lower the floor and raise the ceiling. Carr, Garoppolo, Tannehill raise the floor and lower the ceiling. Just my opinion.

Carr is a better QB than Jimmy & Ryan also there isn't anyone I would want in the draft. Rodger may or may not have a higher ceiling in this point of his career. Jackson has unique skill sets, but I really don't see him leaving Baltimore. 

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I will gladly take Derek Carr for the next three years and see what happens during the Jets window with Sauce, Wilson, Hall, Moore, and AVT on rookie contracts.

I'm not sure what people are realistically expecting.  Franchise quarterbacks don't exactly grow on trees.  There are about 5-10 people in the world who can play the game at an elite level at any given time.

You can win and/or get to Superbowls with the Matthew Staffords, Nick Foles, Matt Ryans, Jimmy Garrapolos, and Jared Goffs of the world.  It happens most years.  Derek Carr is in this tier of quarterbacks.

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25 minutes ago, derp said:

Yeah, you’re digging up individual games from a team that spent 90-95% of the cap on non-QB’s though. Carr cuts that to 80%, and the team needs to be a one seed or win four consecutive games against playoff teams.

I guess it depends on how much you think Carr will get paid. Cap hits usually are not equal to average annual salary. These are the highest paid QBs on an annual average and their % of cap taken up this past year:

 

Aaron Rodgers - 13.2%

Russell Wilson - 7.7%

Kyler Murray - 6.1%

DeShaun Watson - 4.3%

Patrick Mahomes - 17%

Josh Allen - 7.8%

 

Paying a QB makes needing to hit in other areas more critical but not impossible. I'd argue money tied up on IR and Dead Cap has more of an impact than the amount we spend on an above average QB.

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4 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

4th Q of playoff game in 2020 due to concussion

5 in 2021

5 + 1 in 2022 

 

He's a risk but I'm not sure his injuries are a result of his style of play. Concussion happened on a wild snap 20 yards over Lamar's head and the last 2 injuries happened in the pocket. It's a concern for sure but I'm not sure it's the huge gamble people make it out to be.

My repectfull disagreement would include the emence draft compensation. Carr plus the #13 (LT?), and most likely keeping the rest of our draft picks versus Lamar minus the #13 and mostly another (or more) 1st rounders. Im taking Carr and staying away from LaMarr because of how many games he has missed and the uncertantity of the current injured knee

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9 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

I will gladly take Derek Carr for the next three years and see what happens during the Jets window with Sauce, Wilson, Hall, Moore, and AVT on rookie contracts.

I'm not sure what people are realistically expecting.  Franchise quarterbacks don't exactly grow on trees.  There are about 5-10 people in the world who can play the game at an elite level at any given time.

You can win and/or get to Superbowls with the Matthew Staffords, Nick Foles, Matt Ryans, Jimmy Garrapolos, and Jared Goffs of the world.  It happens most years.  Derek Carr is in this tier of quarterbacks.

One career playoff game in nine seasons, and he lost. That’s his tier. 

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5 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

My repectfull disagreement would include the emence draft compensation. Carr plus the #13 (LT?), and most likely keeping the rest of our draft picks versus Lamar minus the #13 and mostly another (or more) 1st rounders. Im taking Carr and staying away from LaMarr because of how many games he has missed and the uncertantity of the current injured knee

oo I'm on the same wavelength. I tend to think Carr will be signed before Lamar is traded so I'd 100% go for him first and foremost anyway. I'd hate to bank on a trade happening and let FA QBs slip away.

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42 minutes ago, derp said:

Yes, that is the literal interpretation. So from a literal standpoint, I’d rather chase being a legitimate Super Bowl contender than be a long shot that needs a magical run through a loaded AFC. 

I don’t know how the team gets better when it can’t afford him under the cap and guys decline all the time. And that leaves the team two big if’s away from needing a magical run with a likely declining quarterback and the need to push money around.

I’ll root like crazy for it to happen if they acquire him, but I think Carr is for the fans that are happy with a playoff run rather than being a legitimate contender. And there’s nothing wrong with feeling that way as a fan, it’s just now how I feel as a fan.

I am kind of with the other guy here.  If you think  you can make a playoff run, you are a legitimate contender.  If you make it anything can happen.  Stafford?  The Bengals?  Brock Purdy?  You can't play the long game forever and they need to get a QB.

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2 hours ago, slats said:

We can theorize that he’s not the reason they lost. We do, however, know for a fact that he’s not the reason they won. A common thread spanning his career, and Carr’s been worse. 

 But Carr has been on average to below average teams his entire career. He’s decent and can play within a system and not be needed to win the game on his own like he pretty much did with the Raiders. And there’s just not a lot of apples to pluck off the tree. I just don’t see them roll into 2023 with White and Wilson. It’s really slim pickens. Carr or Jimmy G. The Pack aren’t going to let Rodgers just prance off into the eastern sunset without a considerable return on their investment. Same as Lamar. Seems to me, the Jets’ hands are pretty much tied up. 

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1 hour ago, slats said:

Hey, you can like him and Carr all you like. I don’t. 
 
Cousins has been with Minnesota for five years. The year before he joined the team, they were 13-3 and adding Cousins was supposed to be the missing piece. His first year, they went 8-7-1. His record in five years with the team is 46-33-1. He’s brought that team to the playoffs exactly twice in those five years, managing a 1-2 record. This was his best regular season, then one & done. 
 
Carr’s been in the league for nine years, his record is 63-79. In those nine years he played one playoff game, lost, and was almost certainly part of the problem. His passing stats are meh; 7.1 ypa, 2% int, 91.2 passer rating. People want to trade picks and hand huge money out for this? 
 
These are the QBs who get your hopes up because, no, they don’t suck. They’re just not nearly as good as you hope they can be, and never will be. The idea of a $33M Derek Carr lifting this Jets franchise is laughable to me and, while we’re all putting our opinions in print, I’m more than happy to add my name to the list of people who don’t want him. My personal saving grace is that I do not think Carr would accept a trade here, nor do I think Douglas is the sort to be inclined to win a couple hundred million bidding war for upper mediocrity. 

My comment was not about Carr. It was an assessment of your bogus argument re the Giants game. Cousins doesn't excite me, but he's a solid QB. Carr actually has a more aggressive nature than Cousins, thus his comeback record. I don't see any immediate fix in the draft for the Jets this year. So I'm okay with a veteran stand in who will transition either an improved Wilson (questionable) or someone not yet on the roster. Carr will work in that regard. He's not Mahomes or Josh Allen, but he's good. That's about as much as we can expect given where we're at. Team stats don't actually mean much, otherwise guys like Matt Stafford would be immediately dismissed as hacks. He's not, just unlucky being drafted to a losing franchise. Brady is a never-Jet (thankfully) and Rodgers has one step into retirement and has a bad attitude. He's no savior.

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6 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Patriots (+1100):  Would they move on from Mac Jones after 2 years?  Would Carr want to play in an offense similar to the one he just struggled in with McDaniels?

Reading between the lines, Carr is pissed at getting shelves by McDaniels. Just don’t consider it a realistic possibility that he goes to Josh’s mentor to start his revenge tour.

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10 minutes ago, slats said:

One career playoff game in nine seasons, and he lost. That’s his tier. 

If you believe Derek Carr was a large part of the problem, then yes, that is a damning fact.  I happen to believe that the Raiders as a whole were a train wreck for much of the past decade, and Carr is really the main reason that they were able to be a semi-respectable team over that span.

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4 hours ago, Bronxville Jets Fan said:

I am now really hoping that the Jets acquire Carr after just reading Peter King say he thinks a team like the Jets will pay "at least" two first-rounders for Rodgers.  I'm praying to God that Douglas takes a more conservative approach than that -- such as Carr or Jimmy G -- because the thought of paying two first-rounders for a 39 year-old declining player with an attitude problem is just sickening.  I just cannot see it working out well.  

I’d rather bring Bret Farve out of retirement than give up 2 #1’s.

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4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Derrick Carr should be priority #1 or the Jets.

- High character guy well liked by his team mates.

- Guy that wants to win badly and cares about his team

- Shown constant ability to lead comebacks in games.

-  Fairly durable health wise

- Has had to put up heinous defensive play from the Raiders during his career.

- Will not cost and arm and a leg to obtain (the jets still have holes to fill)

By far the #1 QB candidate for me.

And by far the Least liked qb for me: jimmy g

-has done NOTHING

-always injured

thats enough from me

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1 hour ago, Claymation said:

Carr is a better QB than Jimmy & Ryan also there isn't anyone I would want in the draft. Rodger may or may not have a higher ceiling in this point of his career. Jackson has unique skill sets, but I really don't see him leaving Baltimore. 

I mean, there's a reason I didn't include Garoppolo or Ryan. I like some of the draft prospects. You can play the may or may not have a higher ceiling with literally anyone, but track record wise Carr's peaks haven't been at nearly the level of Rodgers' peaks.

Carr's what, 0-7 in cold weather games and led the league in picks last year on a bad team? He's also always played with bad defenses and is decent against pressure. You can argue him pretty much any which way because he's average to above average. The issue isn't so much with Carr the player as it is playing salary cap gymnastics to fit Carr the player onto this roster that's pretty good but absolutely flawed.

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51 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

I guess it depends on how much you think Carr will get paid. Cap hits usually are not equal to average annual salary. These are the highest paid QBs on an annual average and their % of cap taken up this past year:

 

Aaron Rodgers - 13.2%

Russell Wilson - 7.7%

Kyler Murray - 6.1%

DeShaun Watson - 4.3%

Patrick Mahomes - 17%

Josh Allen - 7.8%

 

Paying a QB makes needing to hit in other areas more critical but not impossible. I'd argue money tied up on IR and Dead Cap has more of an impact than the amount we spend on an above average QB.

I'm guessing in the ballpark of his current deal, right? Especially if there's a thought he might be traded. There's a lot of teams that need quarterbacks. And ultimately his cap hit might not be his AAV, but it's going to hit the cap at some point. I presume they'd do some gymnastics to fit him, but to me that's something you do if you're chasing a title not chasing a playoff spot. Looking at that list, the elite guys had good teams and the sub elite guys had poor teams. I'd be okay moving stuff around to fit a guy I thought might be elite. Just don't think Carr's that guy. I think those who like Carr tend to be okay with the playoff spot. That's fine, just not my personal thought on what the team should chase at any given point in time.

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4 minutes ago, derp said:

I mean, there's a reason I didn't include Garoppolo or Ryan. I like some of the draft prospects. You can play the may or may not have a higher ceiling with literally anyone, but track record wise Carr's peaks haven't been at nearly the level of Rodgers' peaks.

Carr's what, 0-7 in cold weather games and led the league in picks last year on a bad team? He's also always played with bad defenses and is decent against pressure. You can argue him pretty much any which way because he's average to above average. The issue isn't so much with Carr the player as it is playing salary cap gymnastics to fit Carr the player onto this roster that's pretty good but absolutely flawed.

Rodgers and Carr had basically the same year in 2022. Rodgers threw 12 to Carr's 14 Int. 26 TDs to Carr's 24. Difference is Rodgers is going to be 60 Million dollar hit whoever trades for him as opposed to the team that signs Carr, my guess that number is 25 to 30 million. Rodgers is 39 years old while Carr is 31. Carr allows this team to keep QW. Rodgers doesn't.

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5 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Rodgers and Carr had basically the same year in 2022. Rodgers threw 12 to Carr's 14 Int. 26 TDs to Carr's 24. Difference is Rodgers is going to be 60 Million dollar hit whoever trades for him as opposed to the team that signs Carr, my guess that number is 25 to 30 million. Rodgers is 39 years old while Carr is 31. Carr allows this team to keep QW. Rodgers doesn't.

So, Rodgers threw less picks and more TDs, despite losing a top 3 WR to Carr and not having the same caliber TE1 or RB1? And to you, those are “basically the same”? 

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47 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I am kind of with the other guy here.  If you think  you can make a playoff run, you are a legitimate contender.  If you make it anything can happen.  Stafford?  The Bengals?  Brock Purdy?  You can't play the long game forever and they need to get a QB.

That Rams team was loaded. They went all in and completely collapsed. Bengals team was and is also loaded. They're spending $20M on a top 5 QB and a top 5 WR. The 49ers are loaded, best defense in the league and they may have the best 5 skill position player grouping in the league.

If the Jets were in the category with any of those teams it'd be a different story. The Jets' defense is excellent and the offense is deeply flawed beyond just the quarterback. Needs at least three more offensive linemen and at least one more playmaker. 

There's note even a guarantee that team makes a playoff run. They still need to fit Carr, try to improve the roster despite needing to cut down on guys, hope he picks up a new scheme quickly and is proficient in it, hope he's not on the decline, hope he's not the same guy who led the league in picks before getting benched, etc.

Being a bunch of if's away from hoping for a magical run isn't my idea of what you want to do. And it's different if the financial situation and career trajectory are different but you're talking about a $40M AAV for a team that's already pushing money ahead to fit guys on a roster. It'd be heading for a poor man's version of the Rams - worse team and worse quarterback. 

I said it before, I'll root for it to go well if it happens. Just doesn't strike me as a good plan. 

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