Jump to content

Bottom Line QB Position vs. the Team Concept


Recommended Posts

21 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

only 12 ints ? 3 less than the league leader

Go list the WRs and TEs on the Packers for us.

Then tell us which ones you think would be real assets - weapons, even - with Mike White and Gardner Minshew throwing to them instead of Rodgers.

Also in that analysis be sure to include White or Minschew with a beat up hand that later, further adding a broken right thumb in November.

How many interceptions do they throw then?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I don't think either of those QB's are as good as Mike White and White already has a good relationship with this offense. Were you watching Mike White Play this year ? If not for all the drops and fumbles in the Buffalo and Minnesota game we probably make the playoffs. Would not have made it far since it was obvious Mike White was effected by 5 broken ribs but the guy can play and he moves this offense so I'm sure why people push him aside 

I don't think anyone will argue with you on White's quality and the fact that he's alright a favorite among his teammates, but you just can't rely on him to stay healthy at this point.  I know it's easy to point to the OL as the cause, and the fact that he took the type of hit that you never see a QB take, but it's still the truth that he's gone down in each of the last two seasons.

 

I'm on board with the lower level short term option though.  I like the idea of continuing to build through the draft.  We have a great core - the best core I've ever seen since I started following this team.  We have the makings of something special.  Bring in a vet who can compete but who won't cripple us, cap-wise or draft pick-wise.  Fix the OL in the draft.  Give Zach one more year to see if he can rebound, but if not we look to finally right that wrong in the 2024 draft.  At that point I'll be on board with trading multiple 1sts to get the guy we want.  Now though?  For Rodgers or Lamar, at ridiculous cap numbers?  I'd pass.  

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Seriously?

You are over-obsessed with the idea that every position needs to be perfect for success. Buffalo lost to Cincy because their QB kept turning the ball over, erasing possessions while giving the Bengals extra free ones.

Never mind the idea that, what made Rodgers a great QB was having Davante Adams. He kept forcing it in to Adams because that was the only receiver he had. The problem wasn't the oversimplified "without Adams" it's that they Admas + nobody and then replaced Adams with nobody. ****ing Allen Lazard was their WR1, paired with Randall Cobb years past his usefulness, and 3 starts of Sammy Watkins who's struggled to put up Corey Davis numbers with the game's most elite QBs. Oh yeah, and some TE you'd have never heard of if Rodgers wasn't embedding spirals between his numbers from 10 yards away, who was backing up 37 year-old Marcedes Lewis. To say you're oversimplifying, by essentially saying he sucks without Davante Adams, would be an understatement. 

I've outlined about 10x how they can erase $60MM from the payroll from 5 nonessential, badly overpaid players: CJM, Lawson, Davis, Tomlinson, and Berrios. Right there is an even-swap for Rodgers and they would have $10MM leftover. Beyond that they have a stupidly-easy way of backloading a few more contracts because 2024 will have some $120-150MM in cap space (minus a presumed ~$25MM for QW's extension).

If you can't figure out how they can swap out those mediocre starters for other much cheaper mediocre starters, plus a couple more, with another $70MM or however much more you'd love to spend by pushing off a bunch of 2023 hits to next season, then that's not on me.

With some minor tweaks this is a playoff team - that means a legitimate SB contender - with the right QB. They beat up on Buffalo with ****ing Wilson QBing the team ffs.

It's a cross-your-fingers 9-8 or maybe even 10-7 team if Mike White can stay on the field for 7-10 of those games, if everybody else stays healthy around him.

Ahh so they get rid of those players and pay Rodgers and stay with a rag tag OL no longer have a sure handed punt returner dump the defensive Captain who actually calls the defense and all is well in Jet ville LOL . 120 to 150 m in cap space ? Really well gee lets just go fickign wild.

Also the point was not who Rodgers was playing with it was who they didn't sign..... thought that was the whole point here signing QB's for 50 mil then losing some of the biggest parts of the puzzle. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Go list the WRs and TEs on the Packers for us.

Then tell us which ones you think would be real assets - weapons, even - with Mike White and Gardner Minshew throwing to them instead of Rodgers.

Also in that analysis be sure to include White or Minschew with a beat up hand that later, further adding a broken right thumb in November.

How many interceptions do they throw then?

Just stop ! this does not happen with Davonte Adams a guy who would have opened up that entire offense and made things much easier. Too bad they couldn't pay him .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

yeah cause its real cool to joke about a player who got demolished on a play that would have sent any QB to the hospital and the fact he came back in the game with 5 broken ribs is something we should all take lessons from to routinely joke about.

For the record I keep seeing this stupid ass nonsense that I'm somehow advocating Mike White be the only Option and no where in any of my posts do I say that. I do believe we should Sign another QB like a Minshew as a back up or even as a guy who can compete . People tend to make sh*t up to strengthen their argument but I never said Mike White should go into this alone with Wilson as his back up.

Minshew as an option is pretty much the same as MFW as an option.  Two backups, paid as backups because we’ve seen how many backups win SBs.  

Mike White did suck it up and played through pain.  But we don’t know who else would or wouldn’t have done the same.  Herbert played with pain of broken ribs, others have in the past, but he does get credit for playing.  But then he did go to the hospital. So not just others would have gone to the hospital.  And as usual MW missed the following week and was held back by his ribs.  Sucks but he’s not Superman.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

Ahh so they get rid of those players and pay Rodgers and stay with a rag tag OL no longer have a sure handed punt returner dump the defensive Captain who actually calls the defense and all is well in Jet ville LOL . 120 to 150 m in cap space ? Really well gee lets just go fickign wild.

Also the point was not who Rodgers was playing with it was who they didn't sign..... thought that was the whole point here signing QB's for 50 mil then losing some of the biggest parts of the puzzle. 

Are you actually arguing that Green Bay isn't in the playoffs if Rodgers didn't break his thumb in game 5 when they were 3 and 1?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Smashmouth said:

Just stop ! this does not happen with Davonte Adams a guy who would have opened up that entire offense and made things much easier. Too bad they couldn't pay him .

Too bad GB couldn’t manage their cap better.  Like KC.  Or the Bills.  

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Just stop ! this does not happen with Davonte Adams a guy who would have opened up that entire offense and made things much easier. Too bad they couldn't pay him .

The Raiders made the playoffs without Adams the year before.  They had the No. 1 rusher in the NFL this year and Adams and shat the bed.   Rodgers broke his thumb and they still almost got in the playoffs.  

Rodgers was severley limited for most of the season this year.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

Just stop ! this does not happen with Davonte Adams a guy who would have opened up that entire offense and made things much easier. Too bad they couldn't pay him .

They offered to pay him. A fair deal was on the table. He wanted to play with his buddy. 
 
Jets, OTOH, will have GWilson, Breece, Conklin, Moore, etc, all under contract inexpensively no matter what happens at QB. Rather have a really good QB throwing to them than a couple mediocre guys battling it out. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Smashmouth said:

Ahh so they get rid of those players and pay Rodgers and stay with a rag tag OL no longer have a sure handed punt returner dump the defensive Captain who actually calls the defense and all is well in Jet ville LOL . 120 to 150 m in cap space ? Really well gee lets just go fickign wild.

Also the point was not who Rodgers was playing with it was who they didn't sign..... thought that was the whole point here signing QB's for 50 mil then losing some of the biggest parts of the puzzle. 

You are getting hysterical.

None of those starters I mentioned are essential. A minimum of two of them are players you want to cut anyway. Who are you worried about losing, Carl Lawson? A $13MM guard who was specifically brought in for an offense they're no longer running?

You need the OL to be perfect when you field the types of QBs you're mentioning. An elite, veteran QB hides so much that an elite OL just isn't required. They don't stare at a free rusher about to take his helmet off and snap it anyway without calling an audible. They don't require 3 seconds to process anything past a first read. They don't stand there like a rooted tree while someone runs at them from head-on to use them for a tackling dummy & crush 5 of their ribs.

  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

If we get Lamar, Rodgers or Carr, all you posters calling for free agents all over this message board can just give that up right now. Not only can you give it up with FA's but you can also get ready to say goodbye to our Number 1 draft picks the next 2 years as well. Carr can be doable while keeping our first rounders but high end FA's are out of the question. 

The only way we can continue to build this team is to work a deal with Mike White and Ill explain.

We need a big possession WR that's going to cost money. You are not getting this with Rodgers/Carr/Lamar 

We need at least one more good to great player on the OL Once again this does not happen with Rodgers/Carr/Lamar

I see people want that last piece for the Defense FS the kid from The Eagles.... Johnson ... Not happening with any of those 3 QB's

With MW at QB a guy who the team loves and has proven he's capable and the game is not too much for him and you can at the very least do 2 of the three above. Plus keep all your draft picks.

If you guys think going into the playoffs vs teams like the Bengals and the Chiefs and the Bills with one of those QB's makes it a given while your team has weaknesses at essential positions you're dreaming.

If we keep White, Sign a big target at WR, Dump Corey Davis grab a FA OL and grab Johnson from Philly along with having our first round draft picks we will be a better over all team for it. 

White Played good without AVT or Breece with these players back White will be able to get the ball out quick like he likes too and this team will be explosive once again. 

Its not all about making that big QB splash when you already have a QB that can move this offense and play with what would be the number one defense in the NFL with Johnson added.

I appreciate the thought but I just dont think you can go into the season w/ Mike White as the starter.  I mean, just simply put yourself in the shoes of JD and Saleh.  JD has yet to have a winning season as the GM of the NY Jets, Saleh is firmly on the hot seat next year and you're coming off a collapse largely led by, Mike White and his inability to stay on the field.   The AFC playoffs included names like Mahomes, Burrow, Lawrence, Allen, Herbert, Lamar and his back up....ya gotta make a splash dude, or you end up like the Titans or the Colts, good but never good enough and everyone losses their jobs.

They already made one mistake w/ Wilson.  Doubling down by thinking White is going to be the savior just seems like you're asking to be fired. 

 

  • Upvote 4
  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Just stop ! this does not happen with Davonte Adams a guy who would have opened up that entire offense and made things much easier. Too bad they couldn't pay him .

Except they could pay him and their offer was higher than the Raiders. He chose to go to Vegas for personal reasons with the Raiders and Carr.

Moreover, the Jets' WRs are on their cheap rookie contracts so they don't need to also ante up for a $30MM WR.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Seriously?

You are over-obsessed with the idea that every position needs to be perfect for success. Buffalo lost to Cincy because their QB kept turning the ball over, erasing possessions while giving the Bengals extra free ones.

 

This is nothing less than horsesh*t. I'm over obsessed with the FACT we need to take the problem with the OL pretty damn seriously. I'm also in favor of adding the last piece to a WR corp we currently do not have since Corey Davis who was supposed to fill that chain moving role absolutely sucks.

Right now as I stated numerous times the ONLY player on the OL we have coming back that we can be sure of is AVT but hey he got Injured so maybe He's injury Prone like Mike White ??? OMFG whatever can we do ? 

The rest are basically Old men who are oft Injured (Fant) or currently Injured and 40 years old (Brown) or just plain played like sh*t (Tomlinson) But hey I'm obsessed with replacing all those players because I suggested we get a Big Possession WR ?? Your argument is I'm obsessed ? Well if I'm obsessed then **** it lets got get our 50 mil QB at 39 years old you say we can afford and say **** the OL and any other weaknesses we have then just dump all those other players we had some of which played in a rotation (Lawson) and still had good numbers based on that . 

  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

This is nothing less than horsesh*t. I'm over obsessed with the FACT we need to take the problem with the OL pretty damn seriously. I'm also in favor of adding the last piece to a WR corp we currently do not have since Corey Davis who was supposed to fill that chain moving role absolutely sucks.

Right now as I stated numerous times the ONLY player on the OL we have coming back that we can be sure of is AVT but hey he got Injured so maybe He's injury Prone like Mike White ??? OMFG whatever can we do ? 

The rest are basically Old men who are oft Injured (Fant) or currently Injured and 40 years old (Brown) or just plain played like sh*t (Tomlinson) But hey I'm obsessed with replacing all those players because I suggested we get a Big Possession WR ?? Your argument is I'm obsessed ? Well if I'm obsessed then **** it lets got get our 50 mil QB at 39 years old you say we can afford and say **** the OL and any other weaknesses we have then just dump all those other players we had some of which played in a rotation (Lawson) and still had good numbers based on that . 

You are so used to a Jets QB's upside being like a grilled chicken salad for dinner, where everything has to be perfect to not feel ripped off at the diner & even then it's still just ok. There's an opportunity to have a serious chef put a fresh, prime steak on your plate instead, and you're still obsessing over what if the house salad appetizer has a couple mealy tomato wedges.

Yet you still desire the upside of the chicken salad, knowing full well you can STILL end up with the mealy tomatoes, and even the chicken strips might get overcooked into dry disgustingness anyway because White will find a way to miss half the season & Minshew sucks.

Rodgers was the league's MVP with one serious target on the team. One. Then GB lets go of their all-pro center, replaced him with nothing, and Rodgers won another league MVP, with the team yet again winning 13 games. Then they took that one target away, replaced him with nothing as well, and - with a bruised throwing hand and a broken right thumb - still had what would be a top 5 QB season for this godforsaken franchise, that would because for you to celebrate & dunk on everyone had it been attached to Mike White's name.

And you still want the chicken salad.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I was joking but I guess I hit it on the head.  
Mike White as THE QB is a bad plan, one that the Jets won’t be following.  Two 400 yard games out of four and injured the rest of the way isn’t a plan, it’s a prayer that no one is risking. 

In a conference with Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Herbert, Lawrence; the plan should be to roll with Mike White? Jesus Christ. 

  • Upvote 2
  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know that everybody is worried about the money.  I think there are more important things.  They can work aorund the money.  Any decent GM can monkey around with salaries and make things work.  They do it all the time.  Dealing with dead money from the squids before them.  They can even work aound losing  a bunch of 1st round picks if necessary.  I am not in favor of trading away a bunch of high picks or locking us in to pay gazzillions to whoever we get, but if we have to it is not the end of the world.

This is a delicate time for this regime.  We are very much where Mangini/Tannenbaum sat in 2008.  We know we need another QB to get over the hump and we know that we have to look under every rock.  For me the key is that we have to bring in a guy that will buy in and will go with the scheme.  Guys like Rodgers and Brady very much bring the likelihood that other things will be much more important to them than the 2023 Jets.  Having a guy that is a short termer is one thing, but having a guy that will be talking retirement if things go badly?  It is a bad scene.  I feel Jackson presents a similar problem with potential disputes about scheme.  We can talk about how Zach much "eat, sleep, and breathe football" but I think that is just as important for whatever annoying vet they bring in.  An Andy Dalton (ew! gross!) that wants to be here and win might actually be better than a hall of famer that is just cashing his pay check.  Mangini did not insure that with Favre, and for all his "finding guys that football" it ended his Jets career.

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Well if I'm obsessed then **** it lets got get our 50 mil QB at 39 years old you say we can afford and say **** the OL and any other weaknesses we have…

Just in case you’re interested in sticking to the facts, should Rodgers be traded to the Jets his cap number under his current contract for 2023 will be roughly $15M. How much are you planning to pay White and Minshew? 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The OP seems to be arguing that we have a lot of holes.  I agree.  We have them because despite having a ton of draft picks we drafted a bust at LT and QB and signed a bust at guard as an FA.  

Moore is clearly not a 2 so after picking two WR in round 2 we still don't have a real 2 on the roster.  

We already spent all the draft capital we aquired in trade.  We are still a shockingly below average team without the high draft picks we used up when we were a terrible bottom 3 team. 

What makes the OP think Douglas can fix this before his contract runs out or Saleh can develop the talent before his contract runs out?

The window is going to close before AVT, Wilson and Sauce need to get paid if we don't get solid to elite NFL QB play.  Mike White is a slug.  He's slow footed and fragile.  He's best feature is getting rid of the ball quick because he has to and he's smart enough to know it.  He can't let plays develop because he lacks athletisism and foot speed.  That's why he throws behind the sticks on 3rd down and can't get the team into the endzone.

He's a very solid backup.  The idea of going into a make or break season for the GM and HC with Mike White as the starter is bat sh*t crazy.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You are getting hysterical.

None of those starters I mentioned are essential. A minimum of two of them are players you want to cut anyway. Who are you worried about losing, Carl Lawson? A $13MM guard who was specifically brought in for an offense they're no longer running?

You need the OL to be perfect when you field the types of QBs you're mentioning. An elite, veteran QB hides so much that an elite OL just isn't required. They don't stare at a free rusher about to take his helmet off and snap it anyway without calling an audible. They don't require 3 seconds to process anything past a first read. They don't stand there like a rooted tree while someone runs at them from head-on to use them for a tackling dummy & crush 5 of their ribs.

First off it was not a rooted tree he was hanging in to make a tough throw something Jets fans don't see much of so I can see how you would be skewed there.

Carl Lawson played in a rotation, a rotation that worked for our defense. Once you start dumping players like that Guess what ? Your rotation is not as effective. Our Pass rush was good because of that rotation keeping players fresh and Lawson applied his fair share of Pressure from the outside. Lawson played 58% of the snaps and had 7 sacks numerous pressures and numerous QB hits. He had 7 QB hits when we destroyed Miami  7 . He is part of that rotation you have no problem disrupting. While I'm not a big fan of Mosely (the current version) He does call our defense and has the respect of his teammates. I'm not sure he's going anywhere. What you lose when players are in a rotation are the big sack numbers because those guys are not always on the field to produce those type numbers and no matter who the Jets get to play DE they will be in a rotation no matter what.

You toss off some role players like its nothing but i can think of a time the Jets in 09 and 10 had one of the better running games in the NFL then thought it was a good idea to just dump 2 very good blocking role playing TE's and the Running game started its path to the toilet. Role players are not always the guys to point at to get rid of.

Also when it comes to White and the OL White usually gets the ball out very quick. At times he needs to hang in and in those situations he needs time to get the ball down field and the protection was either not there or grossly missing assignments like on the Milano hit when that Idiot McGovern was double teaming an already blocked D Lineman leaving Carter to try and deal with 2 blitzers. If your ok with our OL getting a 39 year old QB killed then I wont argue the point further.

I know you remember my post last year about obtaining Rodgers and signing him to a deal that would have fit our team and I'm pretty sure you might have been one of the guys laughing at that. My argument was give Zach 2/3 years to play under Rodgers and learn now all of a sudden here we are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I know that everybody is worried about the money.  I think there are more important things.  They can work aorund the money.  Any decent GM can monkey around with salaries and make things work.  They do it all the time.  Dealing with dead money from the squids before them.  They can even work aound losing  a bunch of 1st round picks if necessary.  I am not in favor of trading away a bunch of high picks or locking us in to pay gazzillions to whoever we get, but if we have to it is not the end of the world.

This is a delicate time for this regime.  We are very much where Mangini/Tannenbaum sat in 2008.  We know we need another QB to get over the hump and we know that we have to look under every rock.  For me the key is that we have to bring in a guy that will buy in and will go with the scheme.  Guys like Rodgers and Brady very much bring the likelihood that other things will be much more important to them than the 2023 Jets.  Having a guy that is a short termer is one thing, but having a guy that will be talking retirement if things go badly?  It is a bad scene.  I feel Jackson presents a similar problem with potential disputes about scheme.  We can talk about how Zach much "eat, sleep, and breathe football" but I think that is just as important for whatever annoying vet they bring in.  An Andy Dalton (ew! gross!) that wants to be here and win might actually be better than a hall of famer that is just cashing his pay check.  Mangini did not insure that with Favre, and for all his "finding guys that football" it ended his Jets career.

Everybody knows he's expensive. Everybody wants a trade to cost as few picks - particularly high picks - as possible. No high picks, if at all possible. They can make him fit with anybody the team needs to add, and the main cost will be other starters who are frankly expendable.

The big difference with Favre is he wasn't using the Jets to get another ring. He was using the Jets as a stepping stone to get to the Vikings; a temporary, necessary evil, if you will.

I think the lack of rings for the past dozen years really sticks in Rodgers's craw more than it would with Favre. If Rodgers comes here one presumes it's because he thinks the team is good enough for him to get his 2nd ring, especially after Brady went to a team missing far fewer pieces than the one he'd been with for his whole career.

Yes it's a legitimate concern he will just walk away. He's had a long career and has made plenty of money from the Packers, State Farm, and more. But with the Jets he won't have the deep grudges he had with Green Bay: the rebuilding; the lack of replacement of start players they let go; the lack of any offense getting taken with their first pick (unless it's another QB ffs). Mostly he just doesn't want to be somewhere where there's no chance because they're starting a rebuild. I can understand that at his age.

The similarity is, at one point late in his career, Favre got sick of playing there, too. That it coincided with the Jets needing a starting QB is less of a coincidence, in a sense, since we always need a starting QB lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The OP seems to be arguing that we have a lot of holes.  I agree.  We have them because despite having a ton of draft picks we drafted a bust at LT and QB and signed a bust at guard as an FA.  

Moore is clearly not a 2 so after picking two WR in round 2 we still don't have a real 2 on the roster.  

We already spent all the draft capital we aquired in trade.  We are still a shockingly below average team without the high draft picks we used up when we were a terrible bottom 3 team. 

What makes the OP think Douglas can fix this before his contract runs out or Saleh can develop the talent before his contract runs out?

The window is going to close before AVT, Wilson and Sauce need to get paid if we don't get solid to elite NFL QB play.  Mike White is a slug.  He's slow footed and fragile.  He's best feature is getting rid of the ball quick because he has to and he's smart enough to know it.  He can't let plays develop because he lacks athletisism and foot speed.  That's why he throws behind the sticks on 3rd down and can't get the team into the endzone.

He's a very solid backup.  The idea of going into a make or break season for the GM and HC with Mike White as the starter is bat sh*t crazy.  

Shockingly below average?  That was 2022.  I think they were decidedly average in 2022.  I think the issue is they were bad, they were good, they were bad.  People look at the last several weeks and think "This team blows!"  Well the did down the stretch, but they were pretty damn good for awhile there.  In the end that comes out pretty close to average IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I watch every game the Packers play they are basically my second favorite team very distant second. But hey how come Rodgers didn't do what all great QB's do ? Or what every Jets fan think they do. Just win with anything, throw players open, you know all the bullsh*t QB lingo people adopt who really know nothing about the position. 

So his WR group was Raw Pity they could not afford Davonte wonder why that was ? You still not getting the connection. Sure Mahomes had his usual Mahomes year but when he played Buffalo and Cincy (reg season) and Lost you know the games that matter I'm sure Tyreek didn't cross his mind at all. We'll see how losing Tyreek pans out this weekend when he has to try and outscore the Bengals. I keep telling you guys when it comes to these teams and these elite QB's the Regular season is the beatdown of inferior teams come playoff time every single player counts and if you lose a great one it tips the scales in a huge way for so many reasons. 

I 100 % know the value of a great QB but the playoffs is a different season all together. 

Rodgers wasn’t the problem with the Packers.  Regardless you’re seriously onto Rogers vs MFW now, head to head, who’s better as a player?  
And really I don’t care that they got rid of Davonte.  That Devonte wouldn’t work with the Pack, wanted all his money and wanted to play with, hold on, Carr. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, slats said:

Just in case you’re interested in sticking to the facts, should Rodgers be traded to the Jets his cap number under his current contract for 2023 will be roughly $15M. How much are you planning to pay White and Minshew? 

carnac3.jpg

"Free MRIs and x-rays" for White, and "Monster truck tickets" for Minshew.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, slats said:

Just in case you’re interested in sticking to the facts, should Rodgers be traded to the Jets his cap number under his current contract for 2023 will be roughly $15M. How much are you planning to pay White and Minshew? 

Don't just Cherry pick one year what are the hits in the years after ? or do we just stick our heads in the sand for that remaining money. 

You know what lets just let this play out then we can discuss based on what really happens . I'm sure there's a lot more here than meets the eye as to how Douglas can make this work. All I have to say is no matter what direction we go he had better seriously address the OL because as of right now the only guys i trust is AVY and he's coming off a bad injury to his arm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean, I don't think Smashmouth(I hope that's football term related and not the band...) is necessarily wrong.  I think if we improve the OL and get lucky regarding the health of some of the guys already here(AVT, Becton, Mitchell), you can win with Mike White.  I think part of the problem though is perception.  Right or wrong, going into the season with Mike White as the #1 will crucify JD.  There's just no way he can keep the same cast of characters after the circus that was our QB situation this season.  

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope.

White stinks and is made of glass. Not to mention that he will want a new contract that will not exactly be 'cheap'. I don't know why people keep assuming his price tag will be peanuts. He will want legit starter money to come back to the Jets. 

JD (just like many capable GMs around the league) can make the cap work, push money back, and still be able to re-sign players and fill in critical holes while bringing in a QB than White. Carr is the obvious target because he will not cost a lot of draft capital.

Personally, I don't think Lamar and Rodgers are realistic options. But if the Jets don't get Carr, I still think they should be able to bring in a vet via FA or trade who is an upgrade over Mike White.  

And again, the Jets are NOT is a position where they can't work some magic with the cap to free up money for Carr or an upgrade over Mike White. Contracts can be reworked (money pushed back), cap casualties can free up space, a competent GM should be able to make this happen with our young roster.   

And by the way, going into the playoffs with a guy like Carr or Rodgers vs a guy like Mike White- regardless of the few 'holes/deficiencies' you may have at certain other positions on the roster MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE. HUGE. I take that gamble any day of the week. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Rodgers wasn’t the problem with the Packers.  Regardless you’re seriously onto Rogers vs MFW now, head to head, who’s better as a player?  
And really I don’t care that they got rid of Davonte.  That Devonte wouldn’t work with the Pack, wanted all his money and wanted to play with, hold on, Carr. 

Someone else wanted his money too and he got it ...no ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Everybody knows he's expensive. Everybody wants a trade to cost as few picks - particularly high picks - as possible. No high picks, if at all possible. They can make him fit with anybody the team needs to add, and the main cost will be other starters who are frankly expendable.

The big difference with Favre is he wasn't using the Jets to get another ring. He was using the Jets as a stepping stone to get to the Vikings; a temporary, necessary evil, if you will.

I think the lack of rings for the past dozen years really sticks in Rodgers's craw more than it would with Favre. If Rodgers comes here one presumes it's because he thinks the team is good enough for him to get his 2nd ring, especially after Brady went to a team missing far fewer pieces than the one he'd been with for his whole career.

Yes it's a legitimate concern he will just walk away. He's had a long career and has made plenty of money from the Packers, State Farm, and more. But with the Jets he won't have the deep grudges he had with Green Bay: the rebuilding; the lack of replacement of start players they let go; the lack of any offense getting taken with their first pick (unless it's another QB ffs). Mostly he just doesn't want to be somewhere where there's no chance because they're starting a rebuild. I can understand that at his age.

The similarity is, at one point late in his career, Favre got sick of playing there, too. That it coincided with the Jets needing a starting QB is less of a coincidence, in a sense, since we always need a starting QB lol.

I do not limit these comments to Rodgers.  I am saying that had better take that sh*t into consideration.  If they do not, or they weight their options and roll the dice and sh*t goes south?  I will have no sympathy for them and very little compassion.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

First off it was not a rooted tree he was hanging in to make a tough throw something Jets fans don't see much of so I can see how you would be skewed there.

Carl Lawson played in a rotation, a rotation that worked for our defense. Once you start dumping players like that Guess what ? Your rotation is not as effective. Our Pass rush was good because of that rotation keeping players fresh and Lawson applied his fair share of Pressure from the outside. Lawson played 58% of the snaps and had 7 sacks numerous pressures and numerous QB hits. He had 7 QB hits when we destroyed Miami  7 . He is part of that rotation you have no problem disrupting. While I'm not a big fan of Mosely (the current version) He does call our defense and has the respect of his teammates. I'm not sure he's going anywhere. What you lose when players are in a rotation are the big sack numbers because those guys are not always on the field to produce those type numbers and no matter who the Jets get to play DE they will be in a rotation no matter what.

You toss off some role players like its nothing but i can think of a time the Jets in 09 and 10 had one of the better running games in the NFL then thought it was a good idea to just dump 2 very good blocking role playing TE's and the Running game started its path to the toilet. Role players are not always the guys to point at to get rid of.

Also when it comes to White and the OL White usually gets the ball out very quick. At times he needs to hang in and in those situations he needs time to get the ball down field and the protection was either not there or grossly missing assignments like on the Milano hit when that Idiot McGovern was double teaming an already blocked D Lineman leaving Carter to try and deal with 2 blitzers. If your ok with our OL getting a 39 year old QB killed then I wont argue the point further.

I know you remember my post last year about obtaining Rodgers and signing him to a deal that would have fit our team and I'm pretty sure you might have been one of the guys laughing at that. My argument was give Zach 2/3 years to play under Rodgers and learn now all of a sudden here we are.

A team doesn't draft 2 edge rushers with the goal of hanging onto the $15MM edge rusher they signed when they had nobody.

Lawson isn't worth $15MM/year. You want to renegotiate with him to drop that in half like a part-time player? Fine. 

Somehow the Bengals team that gives you a chubb can fill in a MLB in round 3 but the Jets have to be special morons to give a meh and impossibly-overrated MLB $17MM to get pushed aside, carried across the 1st down marker, look lost in coverage, instinctively run to the wrong gap on short yardage (among other slow instincts), and basically make ~10 noteworthy stops a year while on the field for 1000 plays. Cut him. Draft a MLB on day 2, or sign someone else.

I don't remember your older post. Sorry. Bump it and I'll re-read it if you think it's important, but it was never realistic for the Jets to acquire Rodgers until now, when their team is in disarray, they're still dismantling, and had their first missed-playoffs season in years.

Sorry, you know how I feel about you as a fan & poster, but going with Mike White as the QB1 is ****ing stupid. That's aside from the reality that there is no appetite to do so from the owner to the GM to the HC to the fan base. It's just you. And maybe Mike White.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I know that everybody is worried about the money.  I think there are more important things.  They can work aorund the money.  Any decent GM can monkey around with salaries and make things work.  They do it all the time.  Dealing with dead money from the squids before them.  They can even work aound losing  a bunch of 1st round picks if necessary.  I am not in favor of trading away a bunch of high picks or locking us in to pay gazzillions to whoever we get, but if we have to it is not the end of the world.

This is a delicate time for this regime.  We are very much where Mangini/Tannenbaum sat in 2008.  We know we need another QB to get over the hump and we know that we have to look under every rock.  For me the key is that we have to bring in a guy that will buy in and will go with the scheme.  Guys like Rodgers and Brady very much bring the likelihood that other things will be much more important to them than the 2023 Jets.  Having a guy that is a short termer is one thing, but having a guy that will be talking retirement if things go badly?  It is a bad scene.  I feel Jackson presents a similar problem with potential disputes about scheme.  We can talk about how Zach much "eat, sleep, and breathe football" but I think that is just as important for whatever annoying vet they bring in.  An Andy Dalton (ew! gross!) that wants to be here and win might actually be better than a hall of famer that is just cashing his pay check.  Mangini did not insure that with Favre, and for all his "finding guys that football" it ended his Jets career.

This is a solid post and a good point.  You'd definitely have to vet Rodgers desires.  I think w/ a guy like him, you're not as much concerned if his desires are selfish, as long as that desire is; I want to win a chip away from GB to stick it to them and cement my legacy.  A guy w/ an ego like Rodgers, I would think that would drive him to at least get along w/ the program for a year or two.

I wouldnt worry about it w/ Jackson.  Let him be pick the scheme for all it's worth, he's the franchise at that point anyway.

But I do see your point w/ a Dalton caliber starter but I just think if you go that direction, you're opening up the door for Zach Wilson (unless they trade him) and I just dont think you can do that to this team.

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Devonte wanting to play with Carr was a big part of the deal to LV. He could have been worked in if he wanted to stay in GB

So we get Carr and Davonte and kill two birds with one stone I mean Sperm says we are in a good cap place :)

 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd play hardball with GB, tbh.  What will GB do?  Who else is going to trade for this guy?  I'd give them our 2nd this year, and a conditional 2nd next year if we reach the SB.  I'm not parting a 1st though for a 39 year old dude making that kind of money, much less TWO 1sts. 

 

Rodgers would easily be my top choice this offseason.  He elevates our team while leaving the window open to still A)give Zach another year to prove himself, or B ) draft his next heir apparent.  I still think the best bet for a long-term window is to find our QB via the draft, but that doesn't mean we can't have a great QB starting for us until that happens.  I just don't think that QB should cripple our future and shrink our window.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The OP seems to be arguing that we have a lot of holes.  I agree.  We have them because despite having a ton of draft picks we drafted a bust at LT and QB and signed a bust at guard as an FA.  

Moore is clearly not a 2 so after picking two WR in round 2 we still don't have a real 2 on the roster.  

We already spent all the draft capital we acquired in trade.  We are still a shockingly below average team without the high draft picks we used up when we were a terrible bottom 3 team. 

What makes the OP think Douglas can fix this before his contract runs out or Saleh can develop the talent before his contract runs out?

The window is going to close before AVT, Wilson and Sauce need to get paid if we don't get solid to elite NFL QB play.  Mike White is a slug.  He's slow footed and fragile.  He's best feature is getting rid of the ball quick because he has to and he's smart enough to know it.  He can't let plays develop because he lacks athletisism and foot speed.  That's why he throws behind the sticks on 3rd down and can't get the team into the endzone.

He's a very solid backup.  The idea of going into a make or break season for the GM and HC with Mike White as the starter is bat sh*t crazy.  

Overall nice post except for....

1.The FA guard was the consensus choice (i.e. sh*t happens).

2. The Jury is out on Moore (i.e. QB/OC).

3. We are not a bottom 3 team (i.e. #13 in the draft) 

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

If we get Lamar, Rodgers or Carr, all you posters calling for free agents all over this message board can just give that up right now. Not only can you give it up with FA's but you can also get ready to say goodbye to our Number 1 draft picks the next 2 years as well. Carr can be doable while keeping our first rounders but high end FA's are out of the question. 

The only way we can continue to build this team is to work a deal with Mike White and Ill explain.

We need a big possession WR that's going to cost money. You are not getting this with Rodgers/Carr/Lamar 

We need at least one more good to great player on the OL Once again this does not happen with Rodgers/Carr/Lamar

I see people want that last piece for the Defense FS the kid from The Eagles.... Johnson ... Not happening with any of those 3 QB's

With MW at QB a guy who the team loves and has proven he's capable and the game is not too much for him and you can at the very least do 2 of the three above. Plus keep all your draft picks.

If you guys think going into the playoffs vs teams like the Bengals and the Chiefs and the Bills with one of those QB's makes it a given while your team has weaknesses at essential positions you're dreaming.

If we keep White, Sign a big target at WR, Dump Corey Davis grab a FA OL and grab Johnson from Philly along with having our first round draft picks we will be a better over all team for it. 

White Played good without AVT or Breece with these players back White will be able to get the ball out quick like he likes too and this team will be explosive once again. 

Its not all about making that big QB splash when you already have a QB that can move this offense and play with what would be the number one defense in the NFL with Johnson added.

I am all in on this. There is no quick fix. JD and Saleh have uprooted this team to at least becoming a threat in the NFL. It’s not an overnight process. No magic wand here. Signing Farve years back proved that. Keep adding pieces, use that money to replenish, refine the roster. Mike White can handle the starting Qb role, then sign a guy like Minshew as back up. Deactivate Zach for the year and keep working with him. Let him surf MILF.com on the sidelines. The OL MUST get straightened out regardless of what QB starts, even more so with Mike White who is not a RPO QB. 
Lot of decisions to make - what do they do with Carl Lawson, Moseley, Corey Davis, the safety and LB positions, QB, backup QB? Does JD trade up for best OL prospect?  Signing and trading for a ‘star’ QB could backfire terribly. See Broncos. See Broncos fall flat on their collective faces. And here we are thinking of bringing Hackett here as OC? Let us pray ?  I think JD will make serious changes this coming year but continues to be patient and doesn’t go for that splashdown move. 

  • Post of the Week 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...