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The Stupid "Don't mortgage the future" argument


kevinc855

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1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

Why is it ridiculous if we get to a Super Bowl?  I did not say to give them two firsts.  I said to give them two firsts dependent on how we finish.  

They get the 2nd pick this year guaranteed.  The other two picks would be no higher than 3rd rounders.  IF we get to the AFC Championship, they would escalate to 2nd rounders.  IF we win a Super Bowl, they would escalate to 1st rounders. 

Hell, if we were to win the Super Bowl next year, the one pick might escalate to a first and that would be it.  Apologies if the writing misled to any other suggestion.  There is NO chance I would give Green Bay two firsts and a second unless we win a Super Bowl.   

BUT...If you think it would take less than that to get Rodgers, I think you would be incorrect.

You said the following, which sounds like 2  1sts and a 2nd to me:

 

 I would offer the second pick this year and keep the first for an OT.  We HAVE to draft one.  TOO many question marks.  Then, I would possibly offer 2024 1st AND a 2025 1st WITH contract stipulations for success (depending on how far we get into the playoffs).

 

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1 hour ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

You know nothing about me.

Well i do know you are kind of a condescending prick

1 hour ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

I'd prefer to win 12 games for 5 years over 8-9 win seasons

Yea, guess what grandpa.......not happening without a QB

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Jets are mortgaging. Lots of reasons why but most important is self-preservation. JD and Saleh know they’re gone if they don’t make post season this year. Why worry about the future in such a circumstance?

Jets are going to at least trying for some/most/all of these splash QBs. Obviously there are pros and cons to debate about each. If Jets end up bringing one of the lower tier guys in to start… it’ll mean they tried and failed on the top tier. It will not be because that was their Plan A.

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You have to have a future to mortgage in order to risk that.  Without a QB, the Jets don’t have a future, they have a few good draft picks that will ask to be traded in a few years unless they get a QB and start winning or competing for a Super Bowl, because we’ll be stuck in mediocrity.  If you think for one second that Garrett Wilson or Sauce Gardener are going to stick through another one of the Jets’ patented “rebuilds”, if the GM and coach that selected them are BOTH fired, you have a whole world of hurt coming your way.  

I don’t agree with the timing of what he did, but Elijah Moore was just the beginning.  If something doesn’t change, you can kiss Moore, Gardener, and Wilson goodbye before their rookie deals are up.

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1 hour ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

When did I ever say 10 wins is good?  I never did.  It's people like you who pine for 2015 as if that 10 win season was the greatest year ever. I thought it sucked.  You all act like trading for Rodgers is a guaranteed Super Bowl, so trade the farm - go "all in" because a Super Bowl is worth it.  Read my posts. I'm saying that trading for an old Rodgers doesn't guarantee anything - not a SB, not the playoffs, not 9 wins.  It guarantees nothing.  And by trading away so much, you lose out on winning anything after 2023 as well. I want a more stable, longer term option and the ability to continue building the roster. The QB that can take the Jets to the SB might be available a year from now or might be someone that doesn't cost as much as 2 #1 picks.  There are QBs available every season.  I don't want to go all in on a guy who might be done and who is playing two years tops.  

I had no idea he spoke of you.     I hated 2015.     Fitz McCown is why we passed on Mahommes.  

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15 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

You said the following, which sounds like 2  1sts and a 2nd to me:

 I would offer the second pick this year and keep the first for an OT.  We HAVE to draft one.  TOO many question marks.  Then, I would possibly offer 2024 1st AND a 2025 1st WITH contract stipulations for success (depending on how far we get into the playoffs).

 

Yes...I did.  And then my reply was this:

15 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Apologies if the writing misled to any other suggestion.  There is NO chance I would give Green Bay two firsts and a second unless we win a Super Bowl.   

As I stated, we do NOT hand over a 2nd and two 1sts.  We give a 2nd and possibly two 3rds, which could escalate into 1sts with nothing short of Super Bowl trips.  

To hand over a 2nd and two 1sts without question for a 39-year-old QB with no OL would be the end of Joe Douglas.  

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36 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Yes...I did.  And then my reply was this:

As I stated, we do NOT hand over a 2nd and two 1sts.  We give a 2nd and possibly two 3rds, which could escalate into 1sts with nothing short of Super Bowl trips.  

To hand over a 2nd and two 1sts without question for a 39-year-old QB with no OL would be the end of Joe Douglas.  

Got it.  I'm much more inclined to give up 2-3 2nd day picks than any 1st. I think upgrading one pick to a 1st if the Jets win the SB is more than enough.

I still think his contract is too expensive, that he is too old, and that he is not the right player at the right time for the Jets.  But by trading two second day picks at least lets the Jets can recover if the trade is a mistake.  

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14 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Well i do know you are kind of a condescending prick

Yea, guess what grandpa.......not happening without a QB

 

Said the man-child who starts every thread with an insult to other Jets fans and the man-child who stood out in the rain for 2 hours to stalk and scream at the Jets GM and is somehow proud of that. Good football arguments too!  I guess you ran out of things to say. And I'm not a Grandpa yet, but I sure hope to be one someday and you will too (I think you said you have a child).  Too bad you can't handle anyone who disagrees with you.  Why you always have to turn things into an age issue and insult older posters is beyond me. You clearly have some unresolved issues with grown ups.  All I can say is hopefully, if you are lucky, you'll be over 60 some day and you will realize that those additional 30+ years of life experiences actually teach you some things.  Or when your children are teenagers and think they know everything and that you are an idiot you'll rethink things a bit.  

Just like some people thought drafting Wilson was a mistake, I think trading for Rodgers is a mistake. And an old QB without the proper supporting cast is not winning a SB either.  Just ask.........Rodgers. 

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6 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

 

Said the man-child who starts every thread with an insult to other Jets fans and the man-child who stood out in the rain for 2 hours to stalk and scream at the Jets GM and is somehow proud of that. Good football arguments too!  I guess you ran out of things to say. And I'm not a Grandpa yet, but I sure hope to be one someday and you will too (I think you said you have a child).  Too bad you can't handle anyone who disagrees with you.  Why you always have to turn things into an age issue and insult older posters is beyond me. You clearly have some unresolved issues with grown ups.  All I can say is hopefully, if you are lucky, you'll be over 60 some day and you will realize that those additional 30+ years of life experiences actually teach you some things.  Or when your children are teenagers and think they know everything and that you are an idiot you'll rethink things a bit.  

Just like some people thought drafting Wilson was a mistake, I think trading for Rodgers is a mistake. And an old QB without the proper supporting cast is not winning a SB either.  Just ask.........Rodgers. 

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I just want to go on record to say that, while I don’t like either @kevinc855 nor @Joe Willie White Shoes, I’m team JWWS on this one.  
 

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I don't think I like you either, even though I don't know you or who you are and am basing this entirely on posts on a message board (!), but I appreciate the support in this fake fight nonetheless.  

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2 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

 

Said the man-child who starts every thread with an insult to other Jets fans and the man-child who stood out in the rain for 2 hours to stalk and scream at the Jets GM and is somehow proud of that. Good football arguments too!  I guess you ran out of things to say. And I'm not a Grandpa yet, but I sure hope to be one someday and you will too (I think you said you have a child).  Too bad you can't handle anyone who disagrees with you.  Why you always have to turn things into an age issue and insult older posters is beyond me. You clearly have some unresolved issues with grown ups.  All I can say is hopefully, if you are lucky, you'll be over 60 some day and you will realize that those additional 30+ years of life experiences actually teach you some things.  Or when your children are teenagers and think they know everything and that you are an idiot you'll rethink things a bit.  

Just like some people thought drafting Wilson was a mistake, I think trading for Rodgers is a mistake. And an old QB without the proper supporting cast is not winning a SB either.  Just ask.........Rodgers. 

Be careful @kevinc855 as a fellow grandpa myself, you never know who you are f’n with.

put the keyboard muscles away and respect that others can have a different opinion.

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I think the "mortgaging the future" issue isnt really the picks, its the fact that Rogers contract is so complicated that it would include massive dead cap hits in 2025 and 2026 when he wont be on the team.  

I really dont see how it makes any sense to trade a first round pick plus another pick, and then deal with all the cap nonsense for years to come when you can give the raiders a 4th round pick and get 3 years of Derek Carr, who isnt that far behind rogers at this point. 

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while I don't have a problem at this point making a huge investment in the future, I have yet to hear or see an option for a long term run.

Half of the fan base is claiming that no good OCs wanted to come here because that JD and Saleh are on thin. ice. Some say that coaching doesn't matter, but it is talent that determines the success. Most of the rest want to trade whatever they need to and pay whatever they need to in order to acquire a QB that has failed to make their current team successful - but they assume that a QB not succeeding with a quality CS will just win here because of our CS, or players? Rodgers failed with an arguably better CS than the Jets have. Carr was benched by a HC who was arguably one of the best OCs. Jimmy G hurt again. But these guys are going to shine with an OC who made Russell Wilson look like ZW.

Invest in the future - hell yes. spend all of our draft and cap capital on an overpriced QB who is trending down and likely going to get injured, fail, or 'steal' our money until we can let them go? Investing is one thing, but rolling the dice with the next 3 years - not so much.

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4 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

F8F39798-1BC6-4E78-92F2-306FEA4522B9.jpeg.4bea6f0ad2f9d462e922b441f851f833.jpeg

I love it when poster begin a thread by calling anybody who disagrees with them stupid, then attacks people within their thread with old people memes. 

Getting back to the topic, if this was Rodgers five years ago, it would be a no brainer (and not possible). For me the major issue is whether he has anything left in the tank for a new team with a middling to mediocre record. It's a lot to mortgage for a hope and a prayer. 

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