derp Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 46 minutes ago, T0mShane said: I heard something recently in an Eagles playoff preview that I wasn’t aware of prior. The Eagles were trying to move up from six to get Zach Wilson but Douglas wouldn’t budge, which opened the door for Hurts (drafted the year prior) to take the job full-time. Miami ended up drafting Waddle, and the Eagles took DeVonta Smith. Imagine if the Jets let that happen. Philly collapses with no assets to support Wilson going forward. Jets get a boatload of picks. Trading down to a team that wants a QB in that 2-5 range has to be one of the most ++EV moves a team can make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 1 hour ago, T0mShane said: He measured 6’2”, can quite clearly run, plus arm, plus accuracy (in college), and is allegedly intelligent. The other stuff you’re talking about—injuries, bench press—aren’t QB “traits.” Does anyone know what Pat Mahomes benches? Problem was he wasn't facing great competition. The colleges these days give you a great filter in the sense for the most part these players have been going to recruiting camps since they were high school sophomores. They've had tape on Huddle or some other complier of videos since 1st day of high school. If a player is a great player, he's gonna be at a big time conference, not a Mickey Mouse school like BYU. And that is especially true of skill position players. Occasionally one like Josh Allen falls between the cracks, but think that's really a rarity. If Zach Wilson was worth 2nd pick in the draft, he would have been at a PAC12 school. To Bit's point, there's nothing about Wilson that jumps off the tape, not size, not speed, not physicality. And each of these attributes, while everyone is crapping on Josh Allen off his playoffs, he does jump off the tape in a way Wilson does not. Fields and Mac Jones may not be All Pros. But they're physically bigger and more impressive. And being on a field with 300 lb. edge guys with speed and defenses that can disguise coverages was not a new experience. And for crissakes, stop wearing a f___ing bandana. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 1 hour ago, T0mShane said: I heard something recently in an Eagles playoff preview that I wasn’t aware of prior. The Eagles were trying to move up from six to get Zach Wilson but Douglas wouldn’t budge, which opened the door for Hurts (drafted the year prior) to take the job full-time. Miami ended up drafting Waddle, and the Eagles took DeVonta Smith. That makes the two best organizations in the NFL that wanted to trade up for Zach. We knew we were taking Zach, yet we gave him Wylie Coyote and Acme for a coaching staff. Thank goodness the Jets are finally bringing in a staff that knows how to develop a QB. When really successful people want an asset that you possess and are willing to pay very handsomely for it, you should step back. JD’s gut told him to do just that two years ago. A good coach will take care of the 2 nd part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 1 hour ago, T0mShane said: He measured 6’2”, can quite clearly run, plus arm, plus accuracy (in college), and is allegedly intelligent. The other stuff you’re talking about—injuries, bench press—aren’t QB “traits.” Does anyone know what Pat Mahomes benches? Being 6-2 isn't a really trait it's good enough barely He can run but never did it officially. Maybe he's a 4.7? Just to review traits Include ball mph, release time, hand size, 3 cone, vertical leap, being big like Allen or big ben etc. Zach had no measurable reason for going 2. He has a plus arm that's true but so did Jeff George It's really the arrogance of not being subject to measurement that's a red flag. Trevor Lawrence didn't run a 40 either but he won a natty as a freshman. There's no film reason or workout reason for Zach to have ever been drafted that high. People compared Zach to Drew Brees a 2nd Rd pick and Aaron Rodgers a guy who went 22 and sat for 4 years. Those guys didn't go 2 overall 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undertow Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 What's hilarious is people still dying on their Zach WIlson hills...ego and bias plays a much larger role in these analysis than people want to admit it's why there's still people blaming coaches for why Denzel Mims isn't Randy Moss....Twitter and Youtube scouts take themselves way too seriously nobody cares that you were wrong about Zach Wilson and Denzel Mims. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 1 hour ago, maury77 said: I absolutely understand why people were high on him. The guy has a very good arm, great release and is mobile. I acknowledge the traits; however, I just felt it was a scam because I knew he was never going to play with pockets that big in the NFL. Watch the games, even the good ones. When the pocket got tight, he would either abandon too early and run backwards or throw an errant pass. People became so enchanted with the high level throws that they chose to ignore the high number of jump balls he was throwing where the receiver would outplay the db and the issues he had with pressure. BTW, I’m no means a QB savant. I was really high on Sanchez and Geno and we saw how that turned out. Unfortunately, I was right when it came to Zach. I hear you and totally respect your opinion, a whole lot more than some others. That’s my point in a nutshell, you watch games and draw conclusions based on your criteria. Even when I disagree I totally understand the thinking and logic behind the words. What’s bothersome is when someone say things like they don’t watch college games because they’re boring, minor league football and then preach about players based on some half assed YouTube highlight or comparison video or some mock drafts a media twit posted. That’s not doing the work. Worse is someone telling you ZW showed 0 physical traits that would lead anyone to think he was draftable outside of arm strength. I was wishy washy on Sanchez, liked Genos college production most games. Thought each had a shot at working out and unfortunately at busting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, undertow said: What's hilarious is people still dying on their Zach WIlson hills...ego and bias plays a much larger role in these analysis than people want to admit it's why there's still people blaming coaches for why Denzel Mims isn't Randy Moss....Twitter and Youtube scouts take themselves way too seriously nobody cares that you were wrong about Zach Wilson and Denzel Mims. Pretty much the exact opposite of what we’re talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undertow Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Jet Nut said: Pretty much the exact opposite of what we’re talking about. Just like Zach WIlson throwing the ball into the ground is the exact opposite of him playing well which was your take a month ago. Gotta laugh at the Zach truthers lecturing people on player analysis. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VJphillyfan Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 38 minutes ago, undertow said: What's hilarious is people still dying on their Zach WIlson hills...ego and bias plays a much larger role in these analysis than people want to admit it's why there's still people blaming coaches for why Denzel Mims isn't Randy Moss....Twitter and Youtube scouts take themselves way too seriously nobody cares that you were wrong about Zach Wilson and Denzel Mims. I have never seen a player show so little yet garner so much loyalty as Zach Wilson 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VJphillyfan Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 34 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: Pretty much the exact opposite of what we’re talking about. I’m a sadist. That’s why I’m going to watch Nathaniel Hackett and Zach Wilson for 17 Sundays next fall. That’s the A-Team right there bro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 29 minutes ago, undertow said: Just like Zach WIlson throwing the ball into the ground is the exact opposite of him playing well which was your take a month ago. Gotta laugh at the Zach truthers lecturing people on player analysis. When was that exactly? ‘Got to laugh at those who come on after the fact and can’t stop arguing with people the y imagine we’re Zach supporters or that we’re claiming ZW was playing well a month ago or didn’t even say that. BTW this was a bad analogy. You missing the entire point of the conversation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, VJphillyfan said: I have never seen a player show so little yet garner so much loyalty as Zach Wilson If you don’t type Zach’s name and now Hachetts you have nothing to say. Even when you do you say nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 1 hour ago, section314 said: That makes the two best organizations in the NFL that wanted to trade up for Zach. We knew we were taking Zach, yet we gave him Wylie Coyote and Acme for a coaching staff. Thank goodness the Jets are finally bringing in a staff that knows how to develop a QB. When really successful people want an asset that you possess and are willing to pay very handsomely for it, you should step back. JD’s gut told him to do just that two years ago. A good coach will take care of the 2 nd part. Hackett didn’t take this job to develop Zach Wilson, though. I think Saleh made that clear by saying a veteran QB was the first thing they talked about. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 1 hour ago, bitonti said: Being 6-2 isn't a really trait it's good enough barely He can run but never did it officially. Maybe he's a 4.7? Just to review traits Include ball mph, release time, hand size, 3 cone, vertical leap, being big like Allen or big ben etc. Zach had no measurable reason for going 2. He has a plus arm that's true but so did Jeff George It's really the arrogance of not being subject to measurement that's a red flag. Trevor Lawrence didn't run a 40 either but he won a natty as a freshman. There's no film reason or workout reason for Zach to have ever been drafted that high. People compared Zach to Drew Brees a 2nd Rd pick and Aaron Rodgers a guy who went 22 and sat for 4 years. Those guys didn't go 2 overall You’re more upset that Zach never tested, I guess? What are you saying? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 1 hour ago, T0mShane said: Hackett didn’t take this job to develop Zach Wilson, though. I think Saleh made that clear by saying a veteran QB was the first thing they talked about. Totally agree. But you also know that getting the right QB coach in here to coach Zach up was a big part too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 2 hours ago, T0mShane said: You’re more upset that Zach never tested, I guess? What are you saying? The Jets had the 2 pick that means every other player in the country besides Trevor They had a shot at chase, Sewell, parsons And instead they picked a guy with no rare traits If you're going to make a mistake that high in the draft at least have workouts to point at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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