Jump to content

Ian Rapaport on WFAN regarding Jets qb (no mention of Bill Belichick being a scumbag)


freestater

Recommended Posts

25 minutes ago, football guy said:

A lot of people in the league feel all things equal, Jimmy Garoppolo is an equal if not better QB than Derek Carr. The problem with Jimmy G is that all things are not equal given his extensive injury history, but I think fans put so much weight into stats and not enough info down-to-down execution and situational football to the point where it seems like it’s not even a debate. The reason why guys like Parcells view QB “wins and losses” as a legitimate measure is because they feel if the QBs down-to-down, quarter-to-quarter, game-to-game process is correct, it will reflect in the W-L column. I personally don’t put to much weight into it but worth noting.

A lot of people point to the narrative that “Derek Carr has never played on a team with a good defense” and it’s not an unfair argument, but you also have to consider that his style of play also puts his defenses in tough positions. He’s had the second most INTs and pick-6’s by any active QB since 2014 and his red zone efficiency is very poor. I’m not going to put that all on him because there are a lot of other factors to evaluate, but defensive HCs who value ball control and efficiency are less likely to value Carr than a team who run more high-octane attacks with the mindset that you break defenses down by spreading things and speeding things up. I’m not going to say that Saleh doesn’t like Carr, but I know he values Jimmy because of what he brings to the table from an efficiency standpoint *when he is healthy*

The other aspect to it is commitment. Carr wants to go to a team who views and treats him as a franchise QB. He wants to be more involved with his new team’s personnel, he wants more say in football decisions, he wants a long-term commitment. I personally don’t see a team who will extend this treatment to him. Maybe Atlanta? But I feel like Carr will ultimately have to come down on his expectations if he hasn’t already because I don’t think many teams view him that way.

 

 

This is how I think the Jets look at it: 

  • Aaron Rodgers is the best option, clearly. He optimizes everything you want in a QB and has proven to be one of the most efficient QBs in NFL history who has the explosive traits to embarrass teams or win a shootout if you have to. He’s Carr + Garoppolo combined but with more arm talent. Immediately leaves the building feeling comfortable that they are a legitimate contender assuming they make the necessary improvements to the OL (they will). 
  • After Rodgers, you’re splitting hairs between Carr and Garoppolo. On one hand, Carr is more durable and has greater upside + explosive traits which allow him the ability to hold his own in a shootout. On the other, he’s not necessarily a fit for what you want from an efficiency standpoint and will require a long-term commitment + draft picks. He also hasn’t proven to be a player you can consistently win with and may not fit within the kind of culture and identity the Jets want to establish. 
  • Jimmy is not as durable but you feel he is more of a “winner” that you trust will more consistently convert, sustain drives, and take care of the football. His style fits within the identity and culture the team wants to establish. He may not be a guy who is going to perform well in a shootout, but he’ll put the team in position to win every single game. He also won’t require draft picks or a significant long term commitment. 

Another aspect to all of this? You probably won’t know where Rodgers stands by February 15. Carr will either be traded or released by then and if he’s released, a number of teams (specifically NFC teams) will go full-court press on Carr because they know that no scenario exists where they can land Rodgers and may not want to wait for free agency to address the position. So if you’re the Jets and feel there’s a legitimate chance to land Rodgers, would you rather wait knowing that your backup plan is Jimmy, who you feel is an equal if not better option than Carr *if healthy* or do you abandon pursuit of Rodgers for Carr? 


Rodgers will be option 1 by a wide margin and there’s no doubt about it. The team understands what their up against in the AFC and Rodgers is the only QB potentially available who can go toe-to-toe with Allen, Burrow, and Mahomes. They also value what Rodgers would bring in terms of player development at WR and QB—do not diminish that aspect of all this. Fans role their eyes but building a sustainable winner is the priority, and part of that is by fostering a disciplined process-oriented environment that allows the team to continuously develop guys within their program, specifically at QB. That could be Zach Wilson or someone else, but that’s what JD and Saleh believe in. 

I think Option 2 will be Jimmy G. It’s not because they hate Carr, rather trust Jimmy more and he gives them more flexibility. If they were to get info suggesting Rodgers won’t happen, then it becomes more of a debate.

 

Name one other quarterback you think the Jets would be interested in at QB via trade or free agency if they don't get Rodgers, Carr, or Garoppolo. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Maynard13 said:

I think it’s a behind the scene deal already.  Rodgers & Hackett have more than likely been in conversation about where the best landing spot would be for their joined partnership. They’ve had good success together. It’s more than a shot in the dark. Green Bay has only so much of a stranglehold on Rodgers …1 - they’d like to get out of that insane contract 2 - Rodgers has a no trade clause and can veto a trade he doesn’t approve of and could retire and they’d get zippo for him. It may seem odd and premature for Douglas to hire Hackett after he utterly bombed in Denver. But hiring Hackett just seems there are clandestine agreements and conversations that were in place prior to his hiring. Or is JD just plain bugging out. 

Not only Rodgers and Hackett have been talking,but GreenBay Lafleur and Saleh are best friends. What do you think they’ve been talking about?

Of course they’ve been talking.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

But that begs the question . Why does Rodgers want to come here ?

1) The OC is somebody he's familiar with. 

2) He talked about how he liked Breece Hall and GW, and with another draft and FA this offense could get rolling

3) The defense is top 5, any QB who wants life to be easy would want a team with a good defense so they're rarely playing from behind.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

“Hey Siri, who are the top NFL GM and Head Coach prospects for 2024?”

Seriously. I don’t know what happened to create the change but Joe Douglas went from slow methodical building to pushing money around and making flashy acquisitions.

I think I’ve said it before but Douglas makes me think of the Mike Tyson quote - everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.

He went all in on a few things and it seems like when there’s no plan B and plan A doesn't work he just scrambles around like Zach Wilson when he gets pressured.

  • Post of the Week 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Biggs said:

If JD really believed in developing QB's Saleh would never have been hired to be the HC.  

How so?  Just because Saleh isn't an offensive coach has no relevance to not wanting to developing a franchise QB or any other position. That is what a strong offensive coaching staff would be for.

 I believe Saleh's value is his ability to lead men, and is not just a defensive coordinator playing the role of HC.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, freestater said:

https://www.nj.com/sports/2023/01/nfl-insider-quells-aaron-rodgers-jets-rumors-but-pitches-another-qb-big-swing-for-joe-douglas.html

This to me ranks amongst the least attractive outcomes. Getting Garrapalo virtually guarantees Wilson playing a number of games. 

100% agree and that’s the number one reason I’ve been saying no ******* way to Jimmy G.

I never want to see Zach again. He’s pure sh*t!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

Garoppolo has been in SF for 6 years.  He has played 58% of games he could have played.  5 times riskier than shooting for Rodgers.

That's not the way to measure risk.  When you factor in age plus the need to trade draft picks plus almost double the salary, Rodgers is a much bigger risk than both Carr and Garappolo.  And at 39, the injury risk is not much lower.  

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, rangerous said:

I think the obvious thing is Green Bay is asking for two firsts. Given Rodgers cap hit and salary he’s not really worth trading. But Green Bay is also in a bind if they keep him.  Rodgers keeps the hare apparent on the bench and maybe lafleur wants to start playing love.  So Green Bay will most likely come down with their trade demands.

I would not even give up a future first for Rodgers.  Maybe one 2nd or two later picks.  He's too old and too non-committal on his future to give up valuable draft assets.  

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, football guy said:

A lot of people in the league feel all things equal, Jimmy Garoppolo is an equal if not better QB than Derek Carr. The problem with Jimmy G is that all things are not equal given his extensive injury history, but I think fans put so much weight into stats and not enough info down-to-down execution and situational football to the point where it seems like it’s not even a debate. The reason why guys like Parcells view QB “wins and losses” as a legitimate measure is because they feel if the QBs down-to-down, quarter-to-quarter, game-to-game process is correct, it will reflect in the W-L column. I personally don’t put to much weight into it but worth noting.

A lot of people point to the narrative that “Derek Carr has never played on a team with a good defense” and it’s not an unfair argument, but you also have to consider that his style of play also puts his defenses in tough positions. He’s had the second most INTs and pick-6’s by any active QB since 2014 and his red zone efficiency is very poor. I’m not going to put that all on him because there are a lot of other factors to evaluate, but defensive HCs who value ball control and efficiency are less likely to value Carr than a team who run more high-octane attacks with the mindset that you break defenses down by spreading things and speeding things up. I’m not going to say that Saleh doesn’t like Carr, but I know he values Jimmy because of what he brings to the table from an efficiency standpoint *when he is healthy*

The other aspect to it is commitment. Carr wants to go to a team who views and treats him as a franchise QB. He wants to be more involved with his new team’s personnel, he wants more say in football decisions, he wants a long-term commitment. I personally don’t see a team who will extend this treatment to him. Maybe Atlanta? But I feel like Carr will ultimately have to come down on his expectations if he hasn’t already because I don’t think many teams view him that way.

 

 

This is how I think the Jets look at it: 

  • Aaron Rodgers is the best option, clearly. He epitomizes everything you want in a QB and has proven to be one of the most efficient QBs in NFL history who has the explosive traits to embarrass teams or win a shootout if you have to. He’s Carr + Garoppolo combined but with more arm talent. Immediately leaves the building feeling comfortable that they are a legitimate contender assuming they make the necessary improvements to the OL (they will). 
  • After Rodgers, you’re splitting hairs between Carr and Garoppolo. On one hand, Carr is more durable and has greater upside + explosive traits which allow him the ability to hold his own in a shootout. On the other, he’s not necessarily a fit for what you want from an efficiency standpoint and will require a long-term commitment + draft picks. He also hasn’t proven to be a player you can consistently win with and may not fit within the kind of culture and identity the Jets want to establish. 
  • Jimmy is not as durable but you feel he is more of a “winner” that you trust will more consistently convert, sustain drives, and take care of the football. His style fits within the identity and culture the team wants to establish. He may not be a guy who can win games in a shootout, but he’ll put the team in position to win every single game if it’s close. He also won’t require draft picks or a significant long term commitment. 

Another aspect to all of this? You probably won’t know where Rodgers stands by February 15. Carr will either be traded or released by then and if he’s released, a number of teams (specifically NFC teams) will go full-court press on Carr because they know that no scenario exists where they can land Rodgers and may not want to wait for free agency to address the position. So if you’re the Jets and feel there’s a legitimate chance to land Rodgers, would you rather wait knowing that your backup plan is Jimmy, who you feel is an equal if not better option than Carr *when healthy* or do you abandon pursuit of Rodgers for Carr? 


Rodgers will be option 1 by a wide margin and there’s no doubt about it. The team understands what their up against in the AFC and Rodgers is the only QB potentially available who can go toe-to-toe with Allen, Burrow, and Mahomes. They also value what Rodgers would bring in terms of player development at WR and QB—do not diminish that aspect of all this. Fans role their eyes but building a sustainable winner is the priority, and part of that is by fostering a disciplined process-oriented environment that allows the team to continuously develop guys within their program, specifically at QB. That could be Zach Wilson or someone else, but that’s what JD and Saleh believe in. 

I think Option 2 will be Jimmy G. It’s not because they hate Carr, rather trust Jimmy more and he gives them more flexibility. I think they would put more of an effort into signing Mike White as insurance in this scenario given that they don’t really know which Zach Wilson they will be getting come June, and he would be a nice little hedge if Jimmy were to miss games. If they were to get info suggesting Rodgers won’t happen, then it becomes more of a debate.

I’ve heard it said that Carr wouldn’t be a good fit for NY market / media?  

Carolina / Reich seems to be a good fit for Carr. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, derp said:

Seriously. I don’t know what happened to create the change but Joe Douglas went from slow methodical building to pushing money around and making flashy acquisitions.

I think I’ve said it before but Douglas makes me think of the Mike Tyson quote - everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.

He went all in on a few things and it seems like when there’s no plan B and plan A doesn't work he just scrambles around like Zach Wilson when he gets pressured.

He has? I wasn’t aware he’s made any moves this off-season 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is the only "out" year in Rodgers contract. 

The best thing for their franchise long term is to part ways with him this year, get a couple of draft picks and take the $40 million dead cap hit this year.

Otherwise, if he retires next year they get no draft picks and a $70+ million dead cap hit going into 2024. Which means between the Rodgers dead money and Jordan Love 5th year option they'll have around $55 million in cap charges designated to the QB position if they use the June 1st designation for Rodgers. Then another $35 million in dead money in 2024.

But, if they trade Rodgers they'll have Love for $20 million, probably at least 1 extra pick in 2024 and an extra $35 million in cap space to use to help Love 

Basically the Packers are really forced to move on from Rodgers this year bc not doing so is a huge risk for the immediate future of their franchise and Love. 

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So every morning this week Shefty and the ESPN panel discussing Rodgers to the Jets.  
Now the response from NFLNs Ian Rapaport is forget Rodgers, it’s Jimmy G.

Flies to honey

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, choon328 said:

This is the only "out" year in Rodgers contract. 

The best thing for their franchise long term is to part ways with him this year, get a couple of draft picks and take the $40 million dead cap hit this year.

Otherwise, if he retires next year they get no draft picks and a $70+ million dead cap hit going into 2024. Which means between the Rodgers dead money and Jordan Love 5th year option they'll have around $55 million in cap charges designated to the QB position if they use the June 1st designation for Rodgers. Then another $35 million in dead money in 2024.

But, if they trade Rodgers they'll have Love for $20 million, probably at least 1 extra pick in 2024 and an extra $35 million in cap space to use to help Love 

Basically the Packers are really forced to move on from Rodgers this year bc not doing so is a huge risk for the immediate future of their franchise and Love. 

Which is why you don't give up a ton for him.  The Packers are over a barrel if they want to move on from him.  Otherwise, they are stuck with Rodgers' contract and blow completely through Love's rookie deal without seeing him play.  

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

If JD really believed in developing QB's Saleh would never have been hired to be the HC.  

Because a HC sits around all day teaching QBs?  
What in McDermotts history, or Belichicks, Harbaugh etc, etc that says they would be able to develop their one QB?  
That was supposed to be Knapp job.  

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually think Jimmy G is just a minor upgrade over a guy Mike White.  

SF has a team with it all.  Best D in the league that creates mountains of turnovers,  weapons all over the place that are at the top in yac every year, great coaching.

Brock Purdy is looking like a hero with that team and sooner or later he will fall back to earth.

Just on a player ability level I'd take Brady over him.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, football guy said:

Sean McDermott is the HC of the team who developed Josh Allen. What differs between McDermott and Saleh? 

Allen is a hell of a lot better than Wilson for starters.  The only time I would ever hire a defensive HC is if I have a veteran starter.  

Not all, but most, defensive HC's are conservative on offense with young QBs and tend to not want them to lose the game instead of letting them try to win the game. 

Offensive HC's are the opposite for the most part. 

All of that being said, the issue with Wilson is not on coaching. He should never have been drafted that high in the 1st place and even when he was he should of sat at least a year. Both of those things are front office issues. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, C Mart said:

I’ve heard it said that Carr wouldn’t be a good fit for NY market / media?  

Carolina / Reich seems to be a good fit for Carr. 

I think it has more to do with his ability to handle criticism. It’s been pretty well publicized that he’s the “take my ball and go home” type. I think Rodgers is like that too, but public scrutiny motivates him to rise above it and prove everyone wrong, whereas Carr has let public criticism effect his game negatively. He’s always been coddled by the media out west, but in the few instances he has been criticized nationally or by his coaches, he and his entire family have responded in an ultra sensative way.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

But everyone seems to think Rodgers would 🙄

Carr is a devout Christian to the max and that's why people don't think he'll fit in this market with these players.  I don't think that's a fair assumption to make though but I can see why people would make that leap. 

Rodgers is just a curmudgeon but he's seems decent when he's with MacAfee

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Which is why you don't give up a ton for him.  The Packers are over a barrel if they want to move on from him.  Otherwise, they are stuck with Rodgers' contract and blow completely through Love's rookie deal without seeing him play.  

You offer what it will take to get him based on what the market is. The Jets are in just as desperate a place as the Packers are, if not more. I think the bigger draft compensation will be in 2024 and it'll be based on team performance in 2023 and if he retires in 2024 or not.

Probably a 2nd this year and a 3rd next year that can move up 1 or 2 rounds based on team performance and if he's on the roster in 2024. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

I think it’s a behind the scene deal already.  Rodgers & Hackett have more than likely been in conversation about where the best landing spot would be for their joined partnership. They’ve had good success together. It’s more than a shot in the dark. Green Bay has only so much of a stranglehold on Rodgers …1 - they’d like to get out of that insane contract 2 - Rodgers has a no trade clause and can veto a trade he doesn’t approve of and could retire and they’d get zippo for him. It may seem odd and premature for Douglas to hire Hackett after he utterly bombed in Denver. But hiring Hackett just seems there are clandestine agreements and conversations that were in place prior to his hiring. Or is JD just plain bugging out. 

Thank you..

Some may laugh but you are 100% on point here.

Also, Matt LeFleur is BEST FRIENDS with Robert Saleh, don't people think that the two have had a discussion about this...

Wake Up Folks!!

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

But that begs the question . Why does Rodgers want to come here ?

I do not know the man. Perhaps he he has been a big fish in a small town and tired of that? Perhaps he feels that if he can turn this franchise around, he will create a legacy that is near Namathesque. 

Again, I can't get in the man's head. Not sure he DOES want to come here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, section314 said:

I would say it’s about a 15% chance Rodgers ends up here.  

Problem is, day after SB, Carr is Free agent if he isnt traded yet as Raiders owe him 35M day after SB.

So if we dont trade for Carr and then he picks another team and Rodgers says no we are stuck with Jimmy G (he good QB ) which means Zach might start a few games wheile always hurt Jimmy is out. If Jets make it clear they can sign Mike White to be #2 I will feel better about Jimmy G.

If Jimmy G says no, we are stuck with Minshew, Brady, Winston, Marriotta (Lamar I assume stay in Baltimore as they well rum front office and will find a way)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...