The HORRIFIC game of CHICKEN Douglas facing on Carr decision

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, Joejet said:

Whatever the number of cold weather games he has played he has played poorly. If he doesn’t care about that he should and certainly the team should.

He played on a crap team.

I remember when Detroit came in that Goff never won a game in sub 53* games.  How did that play out?  It’s the team that never won in those 7 games.  He doesn’t care, you think QBs sit around scared of the temp?

What were Carrs numbers in those 7 games?  

[playtowinthegame]

13 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I wouldn’t assume that he would get more than what he’s owed on the open market.

 

 I don't get why there is even a discussion about Derek Carr being traded. If I'm Derek Carr, I don't want to reward the Raiders with draft picks if there is nothing in it for me. Derek Carr knows he'll become a free agent sometime between now and February 15th, and he'll most definitely have a lot of suitors and get an even sweeter contract on the open market.

[ylekram]

7 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

 

 I don't get why there is even a discussion about Derek Carr being traded. If I'm Derek Carr, I don't want to reward the Raiders with draft picks if there is nothing in it for me. Derek Carr knows he'll become a free agent sometime between now and February 15th, and he'll most definitely have a lot of suitors and get an even sweeter contract on the open market.

correct 0.00% chance there is a trade.

[IndianaJet]

43 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

 

So are you assuming Derek Carr, who has a no-trade clause, would approve a trade to another team instead of hitting the open market and getting paid even more from a team that doesn't have to give up draft picks to get him.

Nothing in my post assumes anything about what Carr would or would not want. 
 

Someone said it was a bonus that the Raiders would need to pay on 2/15/23.  Other posters added to the conversation based on that incorrect information. 
 

It’s not a bonus, no money needs to be exchanged on 2/15/23.  It’s his salary that becomes fully guaranteed. So the Raiders can agree to a trade now, with it formally going through in March, and not have to pay Carr another penny. 
 

As for what Carr wants….my guess is that he’ll say no to any trade.  If a team is willing to accept a $40 million guarantee AND give up trade assets to the Raiders in a trade for Carr, they’re likely willing to give him at least $40 million in guarantees as a free agent. 
 

The only reason why Carr might accept a trade is because the team who makes the trade is unlikely to trade for him then cut him after just one year.  So Carr might be thinking if he is traded, the other $33 million of his 2024 salary is likely to be paid because it’s unlikely he would be cut.  

Meaning, he’d be paid almost $75 million over the next two seasons if he accepts a trade (and does not renegotiate).  I don’t pretend to be a Derek Carr free market value expert, so I don’t know if he could get $75 mil over the next two years if he were to become a free agent  

 

 

 

[playtowinthegame]

29 minutes ago, IndianaJet said:

The only reason why Carr might accept a trade is because the team who makes the trade is unlikely to trade for him then cut him after just one year.  So Carr might be thinking if he is traded, the other $33 million of his 2024 salary is likely to be paid because it’s unlikely he would be cut.  

Meaning, he’d be paid almost $75 million over the next two seasons if he accepts a trade (and does not renegotiate).  I don’t pretend to be a Derek Carr free market value expert, so I don’t know if he could get $75 mil over the next two years if he were to become a free agent  

I see what you're saying. I think there is a good chance he'll get more guaranteed money in a new deal. There will be a lot of suitors for Carr and I think he'll be able to score a better contract with more guaranteed money. Like @Paradis was saying in a thread he created recently, there is a supply and demand crisis for good starting quarterbacks on the horizon. More demand and less supply makes the price go up. It's like NFL has bad case of camp dick. The standards have dropped, and those butterface quarterbacks are looking real good right now. 

[Joejet]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

What were Carrs numbers in those 7 games?  

You don’t have google?

[ylekram]

wonder what kinda discount Carr would afford the 49ers. He is from Cal, played across the bay in Oakland. seems like with an above average, durable QB, niners would be unstoppable

[bonkertons]

You could lay out worst case scenarios like this for pretty much anything we plan to do in the offseason.  I think things would have to go about as bad as they could possibly go for us to not walk away with an upgrade on White at the very least.  I'm really not too worried about it, even if we put all of our eggs in the Rodgers basket.  

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Joejet said:

You don’t have google?

You keep saying they sucked and you don’t know? 

[Jet2020]

On 1/28/2023 at 3:36 PM, SouthernJet said:

Problem is, day after SB, Carr is Free agent if he isnt traded yet as Raiders owe him 35M day after SB.

So if we dont trade for Carr before SB and then he picks another team and Rodgers says no we are stuck with Jimmy G (he good QB ) BUT means Zach might start a few games (or shudder, more) while always hurt Jimmy is out. If Jets make it clear they can sign Mike White to be #2 I will feel better about Jimmy G.

If Jimmy G says no, we are left  with Minshew, Brady (SF I think), Winston, Marriotta (Lamar I assume stay in Baltimore as they well rum front office and will find a way). The only one I semi-trust is Minshew, but his pedigree is such that a few bad games and he could be removed. He isnt star material.

1. We can’t trade before SB. You must be new. 

2. Carr isn’t looking to policy his HoF career with a SB ring. He’s looking for money and a fresh restart to his decent career. 

3. Semi trust Minshew? You must be new. 

[Joejet]

15 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You keep saying they sucked and you don’t know? 

I do know, I looked it up. Let me know if you need help and I will try to walk you through it.

[Jet Nut]

Just now, Joejet said:

I do know, I looked it up. Let me know if you need help and I will try to walk you through it.

How about you skip it.  I really don’t care it’s poitsless and will have nothing to do with where he winds up.

 

[Joejet]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

How about you skip it.  I really don’t care it’s poitsless and will have nothing to do with where he winds up.

 

Works for me, have a good night.

[greenwave81]

On 1/28/2023 at 4:44 PM, SouthernJet said:

True, BUT, some in Raiders org want to pay the 35 M and hold him longer and get a bigger trade haul as season nears and some teams desperate. Carr then runs risk of having no playoff caliber teams left. Raiders a wierd org

And if Carr says ‘NO’ to any proposed trade?  What do the Raiders do then?

[FootballLove]

In all honesty, Mike White will probably be our 2023 starting QB.

Problem is we just don't have the cap space to sign Rogers, and Carr/Geno/Garoppolo/Tannyhill/(fill in the blank) who won't be cheap either and not much better than MW. Better, yes, but not much better.

We're almost $3M over the cap right now, with like 20 of our own FA's we have to re-sign (them, or their replacements). And we'll need another $15M just for our 2023 draft picks. And Q is DUE his bag on top of all that.

Look, I know GMs can juggle contracts here and there to push back some cap and free up some cap for now. But all that will be needed just to return our roster, plus Q, plus rookies. Then what?

Without a huge QB contract on the books, we've been spending like drunken sailors (rightfully so). So to 'change course' now and assume a huge QB contract would be devastating to our roster. Yes, we have 'some' low hanging fruit (Solomon, Corry Davis, Rankins, a few others) but those will need to be culled just to re-sign the rest of our roster. Again, then what?

Don't be shocked if Mike White is resigned. I think I might be OK with that. We may not have any other choice. And the team loves him.

Unless things like ignoring Q who's already said he won't show up w/o a new deal, and cutting half our starting Oline & Dline is considered a 'choice'.

[Sammybighead]

GIVE ME CARR

[Lith]

26 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

And if Carr says ‘NO’ to any proposed trade?  What do the Raiders do then?

Seems to me its the Raiders and Carr that could be playing a high stakes game of Chicken.  If Carr refuses to waive his no trade now, then Raiders can hold on to him until after his salary guarantees.  They can still trade him after 2/15, the Raiders likely get something for him and Carr does not get his FA deal. 

The game of Chicken is between Carr and the Raiders.

[peekskill68]

12 minutes ago, Lith said:

Seems to me its the Raiders and Carr that could be playing a high stakes game of Chicken.  If Carr refuses to waive his no trade now, then Raiders can hold on to him until after his salary guarantees.  They can still trade him after 2/15, the Raiders likely get something for him and Carr does not get his FA deal. 

The game of Chicken is between Carr and the Raiders.

Doesn't that no trade clause prevent the Raiders from doing this?  If he keeps rejecting trade options, the Raiders are on the hook for the gteed money, aren't they?  Most likely option IMO is Raiders trade him to a team that renegotiates his contract as part of the deal...

[Lith]

6 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Doesn't that no trade clause prevent the Raiders from doing this?  If he keeps rejecting trade options, the Raiders are on the hook for the gteed money, aren't they?  Most likely option IMO is Raiders trade him to a team that renegotiates his contract as part of the deal...

Thats why its a game of chicken.  Carr rejects trade prior to 2/15 hoping to get released.  Raiders don't release him.  Then Carr may agree to trade to get away from LV.  If you are the Raiders, either you let him go for nothing.  Or keep him after the 15th, hoping you can work out a trade that Carr will agree to.

[football guy]

I think a lot of media is assuming Carr will be released but I don’t buy it at all. Raiders can easily tell Carr they won’t release him if he doesn’t play nice with a trade prior to the deadline (which is why I think your seeing people close to him hint he’ll be traded). Whether that’s a bluff or not who knows, but the logic is that it forces Carr to play nice with them and work with them on a trade instead of trying to force them to release him. 

It makes sense. Carr’s salary becomes guaranteed, which means ownership has to put the money into escrow. However, the payout isn’t immediate (it’s not a signing or option bonus) so if he were traded after that deadline the new team would take over the guarantees. Most teams interested in him probably are more than willing to take on that $30 million figure- they can convert it to a signing bonus and renogotiate other aspects of the deal. So if they really wanted to play hardball they can simply say we’re not going to cut you, hold him, and move him at a later date. 

[32EBoozer]

26 minutes ago, Lith said:

Thats why its a game of chicken.  Carr rejects trade prior to 2/15 hoping to get released.  Raiders don't release him.  Then Carr may agree to trade to get away from LV.  If you are the Raiders, either you let him go for nothing.  Or keep him after the 15th, hoping you can work out a trade that Carr will agree to.

The only issue here is I always felt Carr wanted to remain in LV with Adams. If McDaniels wants Brady, Carr needs to go to afford him.

Next season, the Derek Carr contract pays the QB a $32,900,000 base salary and gives him a $34,875,000 cap hit. However, his dead cap number is just $5,625,000, so cutting him this offseason would save the Raiders $29,250,000.

Carr’s $32.9M million 2023 salary and $7.5 million of his 2024 payout are guaranteed for injury, which is one reason the Raiders are sitting him down. These numbers become fully guaranteed on February 15, 2023, so if the team does cut him, it will happen shortly after the NFL season is over.

 

[32EBoozer]

7 minutes ago, football guy said:

I think a lot of media is assuming Carr will be released but I don’t buy it at all. Raiders can easily tell Carr they won’t release him if he doesn’t play nice with a trade prior to the deadline (which is why I think your seeing people close to him hint he’ll be traded). Whether that’s a bluff or not who knows, but the logic is that it forces Carr to play nice with them and work with them on a trade instead of trying to force them to release him. 

It makes sense. Carr’s salary becomes guaranteed, which means ownership has to put the money into escrow. However, the payout isn’t immediate (it’s not a signing or option bonus) so if he were traded after that deadline the new team would take over the guarantees. Most teams interested in him probably are more than willing to take on that $30 million figure- they can convert it to a signing bonus and renogotiate other aspects of the deal. So if they really wanted to play hardball they can simply say we’re not going to cut you, hold him, and move him at a later date. 

See post above

[football guy]

20 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

See post above

I just don’t think Carr has the balls to force the team to keep him or hamstring them to a point where he won’t agree to a trade out of spite when he’s not wanted there. Right or wrong that stance would bother a lot of GMs around the league and would add weight into the narrative that Carr tends to “take his ball and go home” when things don’t go his way. Carr already said his goodbyes and his brother said they’ve been evaluating potential destinations for him. I guess will see what it comes to, but I get the sense he’ll be traded. He seems open to enough destinations and has enough interest to warrant a trade

[Lith]

12 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

The only issue here is I always felt Carr wanted to remain in LV with Adams. If McDaniels wants Brady, Carr needs to go to afford him.

Next season, the Derek Carr contract pays the QB a $32,900,000 base salary and gives him a $34,875,000 cap hit. However, his dead cap number is just $5,625,000, so cutting him this offseason would save the Raiders $29,250,000.

Carr’s $32.9M million 2023 salary and $7.5 million of his 2024 payout are guaranteed for injury, which is one reason the Raiders are sitting him down. These numbers become fully guaranteed on February 15, 2023, so if the team does cut him, it will happen shortly after the NFL season is over.

 

But the Raiders still clear Carr's salary by either trade or cut.  Even if they trade him after 2/15, there is no new money due Carr until the season starts.  It is just that his 2023 salary becomes guaranteed -- there is no option/roster bonus due in Feb which would accelerate the timeline.

Trade Carr, either before or after 2/15, get some picks back, and they still can afford Brady plus have another pick or two to add pieces around him.  But Carr can refuse a trade and screw himself and the Raiders.  Decision is in Raiders hands until 2/15, and then would switch to Carr after 2/15.  Which is why I am saying the game of chicken is between Carr and the Raiders; not the Jets.

[32EBoozer]

36 minutes ago, Lith said:

But Carr can refuse a trade and screw himself and the Raiders.

I don’t see how Carr loses by sticking to his guns? He refuses trade & & gets cut, he gets paid $5.6 mil & negotiates a new contract elsewhere for $35m minimum AAV 

If he stays in LV, then he gets to play again with his buddy DA and get paid a lot of money 

[#27TheDominator]

Why is it horrific?  It is literally the reason a GM gets paid.  Douglas should know exactly who he wants and what it will cost.  He also should be tampering away to know what will probably happen with the guys under contract.  No emails - just some light chatter.  You want to be a GM, put on your big boy pants and find a QB that does not outright blow.  Pretty simple really.

[extmenace]

Carr will not do the raiders any favors and allow them to trade him. McDaniels basically fired him. It doesn’t look like carr had any say. this was not a clean break up. Would be such a bad business move to allow the raiders to trade him even if they had a deal in place with the team he wanted to end up with. In addition to that, Why hurt the team he is going to by making them give up assets? Carr will be cut and he’ll let the market bid his price tag up and sign with a team that won’t have to give up any assets.

teams are already talking and working out the plans. They know what it’ll take, they probably already know what teams he is interested in. That goes for Rodgers too.