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Feels like the wheels are coming off


Phillyjet

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15 hours ago, Phillyjet said:

Even with a bandaid solution with Aaron Rodgers or Derek Care, it's increasingly looking like we'll be cleaning house next year.  Witness:

1) Given our cap situation, how do you retain Q and sign Carr/Rodgers/Garropollo. 

2) Assuming the above happens, What scraps are left to rebuild the oline and replace departing FA's (e.g. Quincy Williams) on D?  And oh yeah, we might be down a draft pick or two.

3) Some modicum of continuity seemed possible by retaining MLF and bringing in a QB/passing game coordinator.  Fast forward a week or two, MLF is hired by McVay, who knows nothing about offense, and we are left with Nathaniel Hackett coming in off an atrocious season with Russell Wilson.  And that team did not lack talent.  Heck, we still don't have a passing game/WR coach, or that senior assistant.

4) Saleh seems like he is increasingly feeding us BS.  Witness the Hackett press conference.  I for one thinking he was spotting MLF a favor, and will be going west in a year.

5) Witness Q's stupid tweet.  

6) Breece will be back, but think we won't see his best, barring another injury, until 2024.  Similar to Saquon.  As a shift runner, would be surprised we see full explosiveness 10 months post injury.  

7) The oline sucks, no offense to AVT who is awesome.  I even think Becton will be better (contract year).  But no center, maybe we got Mitchell on the right side, and we'll see if Laken decides to show up this year.  Oh, and no depth at all.

8. We were relatively injury free on defense this year, particularly at CB.  Not sure we can assume that would be the case next year.

9.  The front office is getting leaky again.  Whatever you think of Tony Pauline, he wasn't making sh*t up.  Someone's gabbing. Usually precedes a clean-out. 

Which leaves us with a very slim margin for error.  If the losing starts, it will go downhill quickly. 

All this makes me sense that we are in one of those rinse/repeat cycles where we'll be cleaning house next year.  Harbaugh?  Payton?  Who you got?

You just have to LET IT GO 

 

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I get a lot of crap for it, since I have been posting here, but Jets fans on this forum are negative whiny little bitches. Now it’s time for Jetsfan80 to complain about me and say something funny. It’s like a never ending story. We finally have a good young core of players and we still have posts like this. Why do I keep coming back here?  

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1 minute ago, JETS SB said:

I get a lot of crap for it, since I have been posting here, but Jets fans on this forum are negative whiny little bitches. Now it’s time for Jetsfan80 to complain about me and say something funny. It’s like a never ending story. We finally have a good young core of players and we still have posts like this. Why do I keep coming back here?  

Probably because you think everyone is talking about all the crap you get. 

Who are you again? 

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23 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Too many missed picks. No one has stuck really via FA. Most notably Tomlinson and Davis being busts. No quarterback obviously. Rodgers isn’t coming here. Oline is a mess. Best player coming off of ACL. This was the off-season to reset again. Now you have Douglas in desperation mode.

I thought we just came off the best draft this team has ever had?

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14 hours ago, Matt39 said:

The amount of excuses our fanbase makes for losing is something 

The thing is, when we just keep saying "It's been 12 years!"  I don't see  how that is a reason to cut Douglas loose.  Over those 12 years there have been 4 GMS and 4 coaches.  I am not one to say that it takes 5 years to rebuild a team - no matter how bad the circumstances.  Still, this team is better than they were in 2021 by a large margin.  Am I confident that they will get over the hump?  Not particularly, but they deserve the chance.  I don't find it cool to be an early adopter so that I can say I told you we should have fired them 2 years ago when they fail.  They are coming off a draft where they had 3 huge hits.  Free agency has not been great, but a bunch of the 2021 guys that we thought were bombs turned out okay - Lawson, Rankins, even Joyner.  I am concerned about the misses (Tomlinson, Wilson obviously, 2020 draft) and the fact that they don't seem to be doing much damage later in the draft.  IMO the team depth is monumentally better and they survived the injuries much longer than they did in 2021.  They know Qb is a disaster and seem to be going balls out to fix it.  Will they?  Are they going about it the right way?  Shrug. 

11 hours ago, bostonmajet said:

Not a huge Jimmy G fan, but sure - Carr sure... he is certainly young enough with a lot to prove... Even a QB like Tannehill. Reasonably young and decent is probably good enough - especially if we get our OL fixed and Hackett isn't a total waste...

Let's reunite Tannehill and Keith Carter.  What could go wrong?

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15 hours ago, jgb said:

Man. How good must a RB be in today’s game to carry the #34 rated QB?

Good health, Breece.

Johnny, The ONLY reason that Breece Hall was any good was BECAUSE of the opponent's fear of the GREAT Zach Wilson with  that "special" arm talent that he possesses, why he can throw a football 79 yards and blacken the eye of a sparrow flying by with a simple flick of the wrist 

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1 minute ago, SoFlaJets said:

Johnny, The ONLY reason that Breece Hall was any good was BECAUSE of the opponent's fear of the GREAT Zach Wilson with  that "special" arm talent that he possesses, why he can throw a football 79 yards and blacken the eye of a sparrow flying by with a simple flick of the wrist 

Breece was comped to AP before the draft by JN’s most hated man — Daniel Kelly. Kelly also predicted Sauce would be the best cover corner in the NFL and had Garrett Wilson as the WR1 of the draft.

But everyone just remembers that he eviscerated BYU pre-draft (correctly).

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Rachel Dratch Snl GIF by Saturday Night Live

This is 100% a negative outlook on every possible scenario lmfao. Which is fine. We are, after all, Jet fans. But its not balanced.

 1) Given our cap situation, how do you retain Q and sign Carr/Rodgers/Garropollo. 

2) Assuming the above happens, What scraps are left to rebuild the oline and replace departing FA's (e.g. Quincy Williams) on D?  And oh yeah, we might be down a draft pick or two.

Both of these have to do with the cap. Any doom and gloom concerns about the cap are way overblown. We are not in 'cap hell'. A LOT can be done to get cap relief and adjust contracts of pricey vets we bring in so that we can afford to field a competitive team and bring back some of our own critical FAs. If we extend Q his contract can be back-ended. Any team that trades for Carr is almost guaranteed to re-structure his contract. I'm not excited about giving up draft capital for Rodgers, but trading for a 39yr old QB with one foot in retirement will not cost nearly as much as some think. 2nd round pick is the ceiling, IMO. No matter how good he is, he simply won't be in the league for much longer. There are a number of players that did not make nearly the impact they were expected to make which we can cut to free up cap- Davis, Berrios, Lawson- just to name a few. And yes, we will need to replace them. But again- these guys did not contribute nearly what their contracts represented. 

 

3) Some modicum of continuity seemed possible by retaining MLF and bringing in a QB/passing game coordinator.  Fast forward a week or two, MLF is hired by McVay, who knows nothing about offense, and we are left with Nathaniel Hackett coming in off an atrocious season with Russell Wilson.  And that team did not lack talent.  Heck, we still don't have a passing game/WR coach, or that senior assistant.

4) Saleh seems like he is increasingly feeding us BS.  Witness the Hackett press conference.  I for one thinking he was spotting MLF a favor, and will be going west in a year.

Both of these are about coaching. These are fair concerns. However, wasn't it a consensus on the forum that MLF was one of the problems, not one of the bright spots last year? Maybe Hackett is not a savior but at least he has experience. The lower level coaching hires will figure themselves out. I'm not sure why fans worry about this so much because they have absolutely no clue about what is happening behind the scenes. Its like there's a possibility that we will go into camp without a WR coach that the team really likes, some bum off the street.

And if you don't believe what Saleh's message is, that is fine. I get it. I agree that he is not the best speaker up at the podium. Maybe doesn't exude the most confidence. A lot of 'coach speak'. Might sound like BS to fans. But all that matters is whether the players believe in him, want to play hard for him and the team wins. 

5) Witness Q's stupid tweet.  

Q's tweet may not have been the best way to communicate his frustration with the lack of offensive production on the Jets. But guess what. He's 100% right. The Niners without Purdy or Jimmy G looked exactly like the Jets did without a quality QB. Despite a great defense they couldn't score any point or put any consistent drives together. So Q is right, its something we all know as fans. And JD will address the QB position in the offseason. 

6) Breece will be back, but think we won't see his best, barring another injury, until 2024.  Similar to Saquon.  As a shift runner, would be surprised we see full explosiveness 10 months post injury. 

While we will be missing our dynamic RB for the early part of the season. And he will most likely take more time to get back to his old self. Bam has been a revelation. And Carter needs to redeem himself. I view this as a great opportunity for the pair to step up and shoulder the load. I would imagine the Jets bring in a 3rd RB as well. Breece's injury is a bummer, but not a huge obstacle for the Jets. #7 below is more concerning. 

7) The oline sucks, no offense to AVT who is awesome.  I even think Becton will be better (contract year).  But no center, maybe we got Mitchell on the right side, and we'll see if Laken decides to show up this year.  Oh, and no depth at all.

O-line will be a huge position to address for JD. A lot can go wrong but a lot can go right. I think its silly to just assume all your FAs are gone and won't be replaced- either by resigning them, FA or the draft. Yes, McGovern, Fant and Herbig are all FAs. Brown will be coming back from surgery. And Becton is a question mark. Apart from QB, this is really the biggest position that JD will need to address in FA and the draft. I think bringing back Herbig will be a smart move. He won't cost as much as we thought due to his slight decline after injury. But he's also still young and played really well as a spot starter when healthy. McGovern struggled a bit- I'm 50/50 on him. I think a better replacement could be found in FA but would also not mind bringing him back if the price is right. And I think the Jets are almost certain (despite some fans indignation) to draft an OT in Rd. 1. So that would give us AVT and Laken at G (with Herbig as depth). McGovern or a FA at C. And between Becton, Mitchell, Brown and a 1st round rookie, we should be able to field two starting OTs. To me, this is fine. This is good enough and could very well be an upgrade over what we had last year. Best case scenario our rookie OT looks to be the real deal and starts at LT, Becton shows up in great shape and starts at RT, AVT+Laken at G, and we nab an upgrade at C in FA. Worst case we have to rely on Brown at LT and Mitchell at RT and our C struggles just as much as McGovern did (maybe more?). But if we bring in an impact veteran QB, he should make things easier for the o-line no matter what.  

8. We were relatively injury free on defense this year, particularly at CB.  Not sure we can assume that would be the case next year.

Injuries are always a factor. You can't predict injuries. Not sure how to even comment on this except to say that CB is one of our deepest positions. So even if we were hit by injury, we have guys who should at the very least be able to step in and give some temporary relief. Nobody on our team can 'replace' Sauce or Reed. And this is how it is for pretty much every team in the league. 

 9.  The front office is getting leaky again.  Whatever you think of Tony Pauline, he wasn't making sh*t up.  Someone's gabbing. Usually precedes a clean-out. 

Conjecture. I mean really. THIS is what suggests to you that we are getting ready for a 'clean-out'??? Stop.  

 

Bottom line. Yes. Some of these are legitimate concerns, some of these could very well happen.

But what you are talking about is the worst possible case scenario where one the best GMs the Jets have had in a long time will simply sit on his hands and allow this team, with their fairly small window of opportunity and his job on the line, to completely fall apart. Frankly, that does not make any sense. Odds are that yes, it will be very hard to 'fix' the o-line and stay healthy next year. Breece cannot be relied on due to injury and the coaching staff still needs to prove themselves.

But JD WILL, I am almost certain, go into 2023 with an upgraded roster. He WILL focus on the O-line, QB and bringing back this talented defense in the offseason. Whether that results in considerably more wins, playoffs, or anything more is just way too difficult to predict at this point.     

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1 hour ago, PepPep said:

Rachel Dratch Snl GIF by Saturday Night Live

This is 100% a negative outlook on every possible scenario lmfao. Which is fine. We are, after all, Jet fans. But its not balanced.

 1) Given our cap situation, how do you retain Q and sign Carr/Rodgers/Garropollo. 

2) Assuming the above happens, What scraps are left to rebuild the oline and replace departing FA's (e.g. Quincy Williams) on D?  And oh yeah, we might be down a draft pick or two.

Both of these have to do with the cap. Any doom and gloom concerns about the cap are way overblown. We are not in 'cap hell'. A LOT can be done to get cap relief and adjust contracts of pricey vets we bring in so that we can afford to field a competitive team and bring back some of our own critical FAs. If we extend Q his contract can be back-ended. Any team that trades for Carr is almost guaranteed to re-structure his contract. I'm not excited about giving up draft capital for Rodgers, but trading for a 39yr old QB with one foot in retirement will not cost nearly as much as some think. 2nd round pick is the ceiling, IMO. No matter how good he is, he simply won't be in the league for much longer. There are a number of players that did not make nearly the impact they were expected to make which we can cut to free up cap- Davis, Berrios, Lawson- just to name a few. And yes, we will need to replace them. But again- these guys did not contribute nearly what their contracts represented. 

 

3) Some modicum of continuity seemed possible by retaining MLF and bringing in a QB/passing game coordinator.  Fast forward a week or two, MLF is hired by McVay, who knows nothing about offense, and we are left with Nathaniel Hackett coming in off an atrocious season with Russell Wilson.  And that team did not lack talent.  Heck, we still don't have a passing game/WR coach, or that senior assistant.

4) Saleh seems like he is increasingly feeding us BS.  Witness the Hackett press conference.  I for one thinking he was spotting MLF a favor, and will be going west in a year.

Both of these are about coaching. These are fair concerns. However, wasn't it a consensus on the forum that MLF was one of the problems, not one of the bright spots last year? Maybe Hackett is not a savior but at least he has experience. The lower level coaching hires will figure themselves out. I'm not sure why fans worry about this so much because they have absolutely no clue about what is happening behind the scenes. Its like there's a possibility that we will go into camp without a WR coach that the team really likes, some bum off the street.

And if you don't believe what Saleh's message is, that is fine. I get it. I agree that he is not the best speaker up at the podium. Maybe doesn't exude the most confidence. A lot of 'coach speak'. Might sound like BS to fans. But all that matters is whether the players believe in him, want to play hard for him and the team wins. 

5) Witness Q's stupid tweet.  

Q's tweet may not have been the best way to communicate his frustration with the lack of offensive production on the Jets. But guess what. He's 100% right. The Niners without Purdy or Jimmy G looked exactly like the Jets did without a quality QB. Despite a great defense they couldn't score any point or put any consistent drives together. So Q is right, its something we all know as fans. And JD will address the QB position in the offseason. 

6) Breece will be back, but think we won't see his best, barring another injury, until 2024.  Similar to Saquon.  As a shift runner, would be surprised we see full explosiveness 10 months post injury. 

While we will be missing our dynamic RB for the early part of the season. And he will most likely take more time to get back to his old self. Bam has been a revelation. And Carter needs to redeem himself. I view this as a great opportunity for the pair to step up and shoulder the load. I would imagine the Jets bring in a 3rd RB as well. Breece's injury is a bummer, but not a huge obstacle for the Jets. #7 below is more concerning. 

7) The oline sucks, no offense to AVT who is awesome.  I even think Becton will be better (contract year).  But no center, maybe we got Mitchell on the right side, and we'll see if Laken decides to show up this year.  Oh, and no depth at all.

O-line will be a huge position to address for JD. A lot can go wrong but a lot can go right. I think its silly to just assume all your FAs are gone and won't be replaced- either by resigning them, FA or the draft. Yes, McGovern, Fant and Herbig are all FAs. Brown will be coming back from surgery. And Becton is a question mark. Apart from QB, this is really the biggest position that JD will need to address in FA and the draft. I think bringing back Herbig will be a smart move. He won't cost as much as we thought due to his slight decline after injury. But he's also still young and played really well as a spot starter when healthy. McGovern struggled a bit- I'm 50/50 on him. I think a better replacement could be found in FA but would also not mind bringing him back if the price is right. And I think the Jets are almost certain (despite some fans indignation) to draft an OT in Rd. 1. So that would give us AVT and Laken at G (with Herbig as depth). McGovern or a FA at C. And between Becton, Mitchell, Brown and a 1st round rookie, we should be able to field two starting OTs. To me, this is fine. This is good enough and could very well be an upgrade over what we had last year. Best case scenario our rookie OT looks to be the real deal and starts at LT, Becton shows up in great shape and starts at RT, AVT+Laken at G, and we nab an upgrade at C in FA. Worst case we have to rely on Brown at LT and Mitchell at RT and our C struggles just as much as McGovern did (maybe more?). But if we bring in an impact veteran QB, he should make things easier for the o-line no matter what.  

8. We were relatively injury free on defense this year, particularly at CB.  Not sure we can assume that would be the case next year.

Injuries are always a factor. You can't predict injuries. Not sure how to even comment on this except to say that CB is one of our deepest positions. So even if we were hit by injury, we have guys who should at the very least be able to step in and give some temporary relief. Nobody on our team can 'replace' Sauce or Reed. And this is how it is for pretty much every team in the league. 

 9.  The front office is getting leaky again.  Whatever you think of Tony Pauline, he wasn't making sh*t up.  Someone's gabbing. Usually precedes a clean-out. 

Conjecture. I mean really. THIS is what suggests to you that we are getting ready for a 'clean-out'??? Stop.  

 

Bottom line. Yes. Some of these are legitimate concerns, some of these could very well happen.

But what you are talking about is the worst possible case scenario where one the best GMs the Jets have had in a long time will simply sit on his hands and allow this team, with their fairly small window of opportunity and his job on the line, to completely fall apart. Frankly, that does not make any sense. Odds are that yes, it will be very hard to 'fix' the o-line and stay healthy next year. Breece cannot be relied on due to injury and the coaching staff still needs to prove themselves.

But JD WILL, I am almost certain, go into 2023 with an upgraded roster. He WILL focus on the O-line, QB and bringing back this talented defense in the offseason. Whether that results in considerably more wins, playoffs, or anything more is just way too difficult to predict at this point.     

For the record, I am a fan of JD, think he has replenished the roster in a lot of ways, and I hear ya, that we can work the cap in a number of ways.  I for one would keep Douglas over Saleh if we had to make a change in year, notwithstanding the whiff on Zach.  But Woody is not tied to JD or Saleh, and what should happen is often different from what will happen.  

But there are also a couple of things to consider:

1) The miss on Zach means we have to invest significant resources on the QB position, which will prevent us from stacking the roster elsewhere on a SB run.  There is no other way to interpret that miss.  It has prevented us from taking that next big step.  Imagine the possibilities in free agency if Zach was even middling at this point.  

2) Saleh, and to some degree Douglas (I would not tie these two at the hips) are facing a playoff mandate this year; don't care what Woody has said.  Anything short of the playoffs and this fanbase will revolt.  The pressure on Woody to clean house would be huge, and he has never struck me as a patient owner.  Hence our history in the last couple of decades.  They know their backs are against the wall.

3) We may have some money to invest in FA's but how many FAs would come here if we don't have the QB?  The NY market is still not a preferred destination.  Aaron Rodgers would change that, so that is the hail mary, but if that doesn't happen (and assuming Carr doesn't happen, which with his no-trade clause seems probable it won't) then how many free agents would want to come here?  We'll make some upgrades, but they won't be of the Von Miller type punctuation to a championship roster.

So I see Rodgers as the hail mary, but short of that, we are likely a middling team that perhaps is sniffing at the playoffs if all goes well.  If we start off slow, folks will start talking about planes flying over MetLife.  Sustainable success is now out... they've cut bait.  Playing probabilities, what outcome is most likely?  It's the one we've seen every 3-4 years.  

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2 hours ago, jgb said:

Breece was comped to AP before the draft by JN’s most hated man — Daniel Kelly. Kelly also predicted Sauce would be the best cover corner in the NFL and had Garrett Wilson as the WR1 of the draft.

But everyone just remembers that he eviscerated BYU pre-draft (correctly).

Not fair.  He is also remembered for eviscerating Jermaine Johnson pre and post-draft.

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7 minutes ago, Phillyjet said:

For the record, I am a fan of JD, think he has replenished the roster in a lot of ways, and I hear ya, that we can work the cap in a number of ways.  I for one would keep Douglas over Saleh if we had to make a change in year, notwithstanding the whiff on Zach.  But Woody is not tied to JD or Saleh, and what should happen is often different from what will happen.  

But there are also a couple of things to consider:

1) The miss on Zach means we have to invest significant resources on the QB position, which will prevent us from stacking the roster elsewhere on a SB run.  There is no other way to interpret that miss.  It has prevented us from taking that next big step.  Imagine the possibilities in free agency if Zach was even middling at this point.  

2) Saleh, and to some degree Douglas (I would not tie these two at the hips) are facing a playoff mandate this year; don't care what Woody has said.  Anything short of the playoffs and this fanbase will revolt.  The pressure on Woody to clean house would be huge, and he has never struck me as a patient owner.  Hence our history in the last couple of decades.  They know their backs are against the wall.

3) We may have some money to invest in FA's but how many FAs would come here if we don't have the QB?  The NY market is still not a preferred destination.  Aaron Rodgers would change that, so that is the hail mary, but if that doesn't happen (and assuming Carr doesn't happen, which with his no-trade clause seems probable it won't) then how many free agents would want to come here?  We'll make some upgrades, but they won't be of the Von Miller type punctuation to a championship roster.

So I see Rodgers as the hail mary, but short of that, we are likely a middling team that perhaps is sniffing at the playoffs if all goes well.  If we start off slow, folks will start talking about planes flying over MetLife.  Sustainable success is now out... they've cut bait.  Playing probabilities, what outcome is most likely?  It's the one we've seen every 3-4 years.  

Jet fans have been revolting for a decade.  Whoop-di-damn-doo.  You think they'll be a middling team that perhaps is sniffing at the playoffs?  You mean like this year?  Things don't go much worse at QB than they did for the 2022 Jets and they were not that far off, no matter what the perception is.  They beat a bunch of backup QBs and had a bunch of things break right, but they were pretty close for a team that most of this board feels is in dire need of a house cleaning.

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20 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Not fair.  He is also remembered for eviscerating Jermaine Johnson pre and post-draft.

He eviscerated BYU. He called JJ “dramatically overdrafted.” Pretty big difference.

Even so the criticism of Kelly is he’s a Jets hating troll who is reflexively anti-Jets because he has a axe to grind although he called 3 of the Jets top picks not just slam dunks but predicted them to be among the best in the league or compared them to all-time greats.

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6 minutes ago, jgb said:

Hehe eviscerated BYU. He called JJ “dramatically overdrafted.” Pretty big difference.

Even so the criticism of Kelly is he’s a jets hating troll who is reflexively anti-Jets because he has a axe to grind although he called 3 of the Jets top picks not just slam dunks but predicted their be among the best in the league or compared them to all-time greats.

I don't think he has an axe to grind.  I do think he is a crazy person that says wacky sh*t to promote his podcast/blog/youtube channel or whatever platform these people try to make a living on.

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6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't think he has an axe to grind.  I do think he is a crazy person that says wacky sh*t to promote his podcast/blog/youtube channel or whatever platform these people try to make a living on.

He’s definitely a publicity whore but his record on talent evals is pretty good

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Forgot about this.  Looks like Fangio (not official yet) will get to beat up on the Jets offense 2x a year.

Jets need Rodgers.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/broncos/2020/10/02/vic-fangio-broncos-jets-handshake/5892634002/

After the Denver Broncos emerged victorious over the New York Jets 37-28 in a battle of the winless on Thursday Night Football, coach Vic Fangio wanted to make sure his team immediately returned to the locker room. 

While that may seem reasonable amid a pandemic, Fangio's instructions contained a different agenda. The 62-year-old wanted to make sure his team avoided any further extracurricular activities with the Jets, who committed six personal fouls, including three roughing the passer calls and two unnecessary roughness flags. 

“There was just a couple of personal fouls there at the end and our sideline was getting pissed off about it,” Fangio said after the game. “I just wanted to avoid any confrontation at the end of the game and having it get ugly there.”

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23 minutes ago, Phillyjet said:

For the record, I am a fan of JD, think he has replenished the roster in a lot of ways, and I hear ya, that we can work the cap in a number of ways.  I for one would keep Douglas over Saleh if we had to make a change in year, notwithstanding the whiff on Zach.  But Woody is not tied to JD or Saleh, and what should happen is often different from what will happen.  

But there are also a couple of things to consider:

1) The miss on Zach means we have to invest significant resources on the QB position, which will prevent us from stacking the roster elsewhere on a SB run.  There is no other way to interpret that miss.  It has prevented us from taking that next big step.  Imagine the possibilities in free agency if Zach was even middling at this point.  

2) Saleh, and to some degree Douglas (I would not tie these two at the hips) are facing a playoff mandate this year; don't care what Woody has said.  Anything short of the playoffs and this fanbase will revolt.  The pressure on Woody to clean house would be huge, and he has never struck me as a patient owner.  Hence our history in the last couple of decades.  They know their backs are against the wall.

3) We may have some money to invest in FA's but how many FAs would come here if we don't have the QB?  The NY market is still not a preferred destination.  Aaron Rodgers would change that, so that is the hail mary, but if that doesn't happen (and assuming Carr doesn't happen, which with his no-trade clause seems probable it won't) then how many free agents would want to come here?  We'll make some upgrades, but they won't be of the Von Miller type punctuation to a championship roster.

So I see Rodgers as the hail mary, but short of that, we are likely a middling team that perhaps is sniffing at the playoffs if all goes well.  If we start off slow, folks will start talking about planes flying over MetLife.  Sustainable success is now out... they've cut bait.  Playing probabilities, what outcome is most likely?  It's the one we've seen every 3-4 years.  

Maybe, who knows what will happen. But if Zach was still a 'middling' QB I don't nec. view this as a 'good' thing. It would mean we trot him out once again as the anointed starter and hope that he makes another leap. A 'middling' QB does not take us very far into the playoffs, even with FA additions. So whiffing on Zach was bad- but at least we know a major change needs to happen at QB. I view that as the biggest positive to come out of last seasons QB calamity. 

Rodgers and Carr are not the only options. Yes, they are the top possibilities. But there are a number of other ways the Jets can go that would address the QB position (even if temporarily) and still allow for maintained success- including playoffs next year. I 100% believe that even a guy like Jacoby Brissett, who a FA and won't cost a ton (but fill in the blank- Minshew, whatever 'glorified backup' with starter experience) will still be good enough to get this team into the playoffs. And it will allow us to shore up and/or upgrade our holes on the roster. The Jets don't need a ton of FAs. They just need to bring back some of their own, they need some key additions and they need to continue building through the draft. This is what JD did last year, and this is what he will continue to do. 

So again, top priority is going big after a QB. Trade or FA.  

Then address the O-line and take care of your own (Q and the FAs you want to keep- Huff. Quincy? McGovern? Herbig?) 

Then go after any additional key FAs. 

Fill in depth and continue building through the draft.

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3 minutes ago, jgb said:

He’s definitely a publicity whore but his record on talent evals is pretty good

Daniel Kelly: Tim Tebow - The Future Hall of Fame QB

In this year's mock he had Malik Willis #2 overall, Matt Corrall #3, Nakobe Dean #5, Linderbaum #6, and Carson Strong #12.  Being right on Wilson does not make him any good at evaluating QBs.  Even funnier, when I looked at his mock, I saw this article "Why the Jets Must Prioritize Re-Signing Folorunso Fatukasi  I would say the D held up pretty well without him. 

He is a typical shill.  Not so great, but at least he generally says what he thinks (though I think his pushing for Tebow is a Christian thing).  No better than the rest, but his 4 years as a $21K a year scout does not make him any more relevant than Kiper. 

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1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Daniel Kelly: Tim Tebow - The Future Hall of Fame QB

In this year's mock he had Malik Willis #2 overall, Matt Corrall #3, Nakobe Dean #5, Linderbaum #6, and Carson Strong #12.  Being right on Wilson does not make him any good at evaluating QBs.  Even funnier, when I looked at his mock, I saw this article "Why the Jets Must Prioritize Re-Signing Folorunso Fatukasi  I would say the D held up pretty well without him. 

He is a typical shill.  Not so great, but at least he generally says what he thinks (though I think his pushing for Tebow is a Christian thing).  No better than the rest, but his 4 years as a $21K a year scout does not make him any more relevant than Kiper. 
 

Seems you prefer to debate someone who is arguing he has a perfect record.

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31 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Jet fans have been revolting for a decade.  Whoop-di-damn-doo.  You think they'll be a middling team that perhaps is sniffing at the playoffs?  You mean like this year?  Things don't go much worse at QB than they did for the 2022 Jets and they were not that far off, no matter what the perception is.  They beat a bunch of backup QBs and had a bunch of things break right, but they were pretty close for a team that most of this board feels is in dire need of a house cleaning.

I don't think they are in dire need of a house-cleaning, but I'm no longer sold on Saleh.   I don't see a big advantage that he gives us in-game.  D is good, offense not so much.  Adjustments so far average.  Most of the time, time-management is good.  Maybe we see growth this year.  But if not, I would keep Douglas and give him one more run with a HC hire if we don't make the playoffs this year.  This is a bigger year for Saleh than Douglas, as I see it.   

But again, the only thing that matters is what Woody thinks.  And I suspect he might not exercise patience.  Not many GMs survive blowing the second overall pick.  I think Douglas has shown enough that he should be an exception, but it all comes down to Woody. 

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11 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Maybe, who knows what will happen. But if Zach was still a 'middling' QB I don't nec. view this as a 'good' thing. It would mean we trot him out once again as the anointed starter and hope that he makes another leap. A 'middling' QB does not take us very far into the playoffs, even with FA additions. So whiffing on Zach was bad- but at least we know a major change needs to happen at QB. I view that as the biggest positive to come out of last seasons QB calamity. 

Rodgers and Carr are not the only options. Yes, they are the top possibilities. But there are a number of other ways the Jets can go that would address the QB position (even if temporarily) and still allow for maintained success- including playoffs next year. I 100% believe that even a guy like Jacoby Brissett, who a FA and won't cost a ton (but fill in the blank- Minshew, whatever 'glorified backup' with starter experience) will still be good enough to get this team into the playoffs. And it will allow us to shore up and/or upgrade our holes on the roster. The Jets don't need a ton of FAs. They just need to bring back some of their own, they need some key additions and they need to continue building through the draft. This is what JD did last year, and this is what he will continue to do. 

So again, top priority is going big after a QB. Trade or FA.  

Then address the O-line and take care of your own (Q and the FAs you want to keep- Huff. Quincy? McGovern? Herbig?) 

Then go after any additional key FAs. 

Fill in depth and continue building through the draft.

Great post... agree with this.  I'm high on Brissett, think he is often overlooked.  Even though it's not a popular opinion on this board, I'd even be good with Darnold returning, as I think it's clicking a bit more for him at this point in his career.  I like the idea of buying a little lower and starting to groom a mid-round pick.  Brissett and a returning White would not be the worst option either.  And perhaps knowing that Wilson is a bust earlier helps us pivot sooner than we would have.  

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5 minutes ago, Phillyjet said:

I don't think they are in dire need of a house-cleaning, but I'm no longer sold on Saleh.   I don't see a big advantage that he gives us in-game.  D is good, offense not so much.  Adjustments so far average.  Most of the time, time-management is good.  Maybe we see growth this year.  But if not, I would keep Douglas and give him one more run with a HC hire if we don't make the playoffs this year.  This is a bigger year for Saleh than Douglas, as I see it.   

But again, the only thing that matters is what Woody thinks.  And I suspect he might not exercise patience.  Not many GMs survive blowing the second overall pick.  I think Douglas has shown enough that he should be an exception, but it all comes down to Woody. 

JD just scored the OROY and DPOY. Blowing the 2nd overall pick was horrible but even with that and the other whiffs, JD is still the best drafter during Woody’s tenure.

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On 1/30/2023 at 9:09 AM, usanyj said:

The "Defense is good, but not great" argument is not steeped in overall fact.  When people think great defenses they think of the 85 bears or the ravens defense that won a super bowl with trent dilfer as qb.  Football has changed drastically since then. you need a serviceable defense to win in the nfl now because rules and flags have pushed so far to favor the offense it has gotten to the point of ridiculousness. 

The bills had the #1 defense last year and couldn't stop Mahomes in the playoffs.  The niners had the best defense this year and just got blown away yesterday.  The jets defense is good enough, sometimes you just need to make one stop.  Where we lack is having the QB to allow for us to go punch for punch with top notch offenses.  Our defense was on the field forever last year with the overwhelming number of 3 and outs.  Our defense, especially in the second half, never played with a lead.  Bring in a solid vet at qb and i think this argument goes out the window.

Couldn't agree more with this. I see this a lot from certain New York media personalities and it's ridiculous. If the standard for a great defense is the 85 Bears or the 2000 Ravens you are going to be disappointed pretty much every time. The Jets defense is good enough to win big with if you had an offense that could compliment it.

Sorry, but the idea that a defense can just completely shut down a good modern NFL offense every week is unrealistic. Jets defense averaged 18.6 PPG given up. If that's not good enough for you, then you have unrealistic expectations. I've seen people like Michael Kay and Joe Benigno think they are making prophetic statements by saying "listen people, I got news for you, it's not a great defense." I'm not really sure what they are expecting a defense to do outside of basically giving up zero points a week. 

The defense can only do so much to cover up poor offense which is always the Jets problem. The offense is still a joke because they don't have a QB. If Joe D and Saleh can go out and get a legit QB they may have gone a long way in solving the issues that have plagued the Jets for decades. 

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9 minutes ago, jgb said:

Seems you prefer to debate someone who is arguing he has a perfect record.

No debate.  He is batsh*t crazy.  I think his record blows, but so do most of these guys.  Carson Strong in the first round?  C'mon.  I don't have a problem with people posting his sh*t, I just think his record blows.  Sometimes it is good to hear a contrary opinion.

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12 hours ago, JETS SB said:

I get a lot of crap for it, since I have been posting here, but Jets fans on this forum are negative whiny little bitches. Now it’s time for Jetsfan80 to complain about me and say something funny. It’s like a never ending story. We finally have a good young core of players and we still have posts like this. Why do I keep coming back here?  

Glutton for punishment?

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15 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

No debate.  He is batsh*t crazy.  I think his record blows, but so do most of these guys.  Carson Strong in the first round?  C'mon.  I don't have a problem with people posting his sh*t, I just think his record blows.  Sometimes it is good to hear a contrary opinion.

He’s an odd duck for sure. But that’s not relevant to the evaluation of his record.

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3 hours ago, jgb said:

Breece was comped to AP before the draft by JN’s most hated man — Daniel Kelly. Kelly also predicted Sauce would be the best cover corner in the NFL and had Garrett Wilson as the WR1 of the draft.

But everyone just remembers that he eviscerated BYU pre-draft (correctly).


I thought Hall was the best player on offense in the draft but he’s more Marshall Faulk than Peterson imo. Hall has the ability to be the best player in franchise history. 

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30 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Couldn't agree more with this. I see this a lot from certain New York media personalities and it's ridiculous. If the standard for a great defense is the 85 Bears or the 2000 Ravens you are going to be disappointed pretty much every time. The Jets defense is good enough to win big with if you had an offense that could compliment it.

Sorry, but the idea that a defense can just completely shut down a good modern NFL offense every week is unrealistic. Jets defense averaged 18.6 PPG given up. If that's not good enough for you, then you have unrealistic expectations. I've seen people like Michael Kay and Joe Benigno think they are making prophetic statements by saying "listen people, I got news for you, it's not a great defense." I'm not really sure what they are expecting a defense to do outside of basically giving up zero points a week. 

The defense can only do so much to cover up poor offense which is always the Jets problem. The offense is still a joke because they don't have a QB. If Joe D and Saleh can go out and get a legit QB they may have gone a long way in solving the issues that have plagued the Jets for decades. 

A great defense doesn't let the Lions march right down the field and score with 2 minutes left when the offense had given them a lead. 

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