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Examining Elijah Moore’s claims about being underutilized in 2022


LIJetsFan

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3 minutes ago, rangerous said:

Okay. Wilson was out 4 games in the middle and Moore was out the last five.  I think the thing to be taken is that Moore was probably the 1 or 2 receiver so Zach was looking for him. And Zach wasn’t throwing it many times per game.  I think my point is Zach wasn’t throwing to Moore because he didn’t like him or something like that. He just wasn’t seeing him.

Believe it or not I’m not zwilson fan boy.  I want the best for the jets. But I also have a hard time thinking Douglas missed so badly and given milfy’s inability to get the offense in gear I can’t help but think he was a huge part of this.

Bouncing 10 yard passes in every game and practice was not MLF's fault.  I hope they crazy glue Zach Wilson's hands to a clipboard for 2023.

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29 minutes ago, Dcat said:

He whines more than Justin Jefferson.  What has he said to make you think he's a JJ equivalent?  I don't remember any comparative remarks... only that he was not being targetted and MLF said nothing was wrong and then finally told him weeks later him he wasn't doing his routes right.  Holy smokes. 

 

You are right he seems like a totally put together person, great teammate, and nothing like your typical diva WR.

Great Job Yes GIF by Hollywood Suite

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The whole issue with poor moore being picked on might ring true if we did not also have the offensive rookie of the year at wr,

We had terrible QBing, gee that is a surprise.

The said Wr beaked off at his coach and demanded a trade after accomplishing nothing and he did not get floods of targets, well there is a surprise.

 

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19 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Moore can be more than an 800-yard guy.

He was ~600 receiving+rushing as a rookie, mostly with rookie Zach at QB, after being injured in preseason & not up to speed by week 1, then further with missing 6 starts outright during the season while he was in rookie shape or never fully 100% (I think it was the same quad he injured in preseason that also landed him on IR the last 5 games, but am not sure on that). 

He's definitely got the ability to be a 1000-yard receiver. People just never think so until it happens - understandably so - but then after the fact it looks like an initial progression to a guy's full potential & it was or should've been obvious in hindsight.

He needs a QB who can hit him deep, sync with him to know his moves, and for the OL+QB to buy Moore enough time to do it. He's had very little of that his first 2 seasons. Garrett Wilson is more-special, but he's also running routes that are easier to get open right away rather than ones that require more like 3 or even 4 seconds to develop. 

This is true.  He was basically on that 800 yard pace early season when Flacco was starting.  1,000 yards.  Sure.  Problem with pumping that up is that Corey Davis is a 1,000 yard receiver. Okay, okay 980 yard receiver.

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3 minutes ago, undertow said:

You are right he seems like a totally put together person, great teammate, and nothing like your typical diva WR.

 

the proof is all there.  He was ridiculously underutilized.  You may not like his behavior, I surely don't, but as far as legitimate gripes go, Moore was 100% correct.  Jets wasted his talent. There's no denying it.  As for his tantrums, that's for another thread.  Not the issue here.  The issue is how this team utterly wasted a rare good 2nd round pick.   Let's see what happens next season with him.

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7 minutes ago, Dcat said:

the proof is all there.  He was ridiculously underutilized.  You may not like his behavior, I surely don't, but as far as legitimate gripes go, Moore was 100% correct.  Jets wasted his talent. There's no denying it.  As for his tantrums, that's for another thread.  Not the issue here.  The issue is how this team utterly wasted a rare good 2nd round pick.   Let's see what happens next season with him.

Good post.  Re his behavior, very young men often do not know how to express themselves properly and that is definitely on him.  None the less, perhaps some/many/most both in and out of the league would not have taken a hard look at his performance this year had he not spoken out.  Can't blame him too much for defending himself.  

Further, IMHO he pointed out something that needed pointing out for the good of the team.        

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59 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Bouncing 10 yard passes in every game and practice was not MLF's fault.  I hope they crazy glue Zach Wilson's hands to a clipboard for 2023.

Yeah they looked bad. Bubby  Brister used to throw a nice bounce pass. But I will say that in the few BYU Zach games I didn’t see him throw many passes like screens or to the backs. His passes all went downfield.  And did a lot of rolling out on both sides. So it could just be that he needs a lot more practice throwing the short touch passes.

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19 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

Good post.  Re his behavior, very young men often do not know how to express themselves properly and that is definitely on him.  None the less, perhaps some/many/most both in and out of the league would not have taken a hard look at his performance this year had he not spoken out.  Can't blame him too much for defending himself.  

Further, IMHO he pointed out something that needed pointing out for the good of the team.        

FWIW, I think the b/vloggers were twittering the sh*t out of Moore's decline in usage when Zach came back, well before he lost his sh*t.

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1 hour ago, rangerous said:

Moore was the 34th player taken in his draft. I don’t know where that would rank relative to the other wrs taken but I doubt Moore is a mediocre talent.  He was just not the no 1 or 2 read on too many plays.

I think he was the 6th WR off the board.  He isn't in the same league as the top 3.  The 4th, 5th and Moore have all pretty much underwhelmed.  

Put it this way Landon Dickerson who's a pro bowl center this year on a SB team was picked 37th and it was a desperate need.

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1 hour ago, LIJetsFan said:

Good post.  Re his behavior, very young men often do not know how to express themselves properly and that is definitely on him.  None the less, perhaps some/many/most both in and out of the league would not have taken a hard look at his performance this year had he not spoken out.  Can't blame him too much for defending himself.  

Further, IMHO he pointed out something that needed pointing out for the good of the team.        

He pointed it out when we were on a winning streak and in great position to make the playoffs.  It didn't have to be brought to anyone's attention at that point.  

He didn't need to defend himself at all.  Nobody cares if your 3 WR is productive if the team is winning.  

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2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

He pointed it out when we were on a winning streak and in great position to make the playoffs.  It didn't have to be brought to anyone's attention at that point.  

He didn't need to defend himself at all.  Nobody cares if your 3 WR is productive if the team is winning.  

Eh.  Failure to self-scout is a problem.  Just because you are winning (against a string of 2nd and 3 string QBs no less) does not mean that you stop looking at what can be done better.  The way that he went about it was horrible, but his lack of use really showed. 

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2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

This is true.  He was basically on that 800 yard pace early season when Flacco was starting.  1,000 yards.  Sure.  Problem with pumping that up is that Corey Davis is a 1,000 yard receiver. Okay, okay 980 yard receiver.

It was 984 yards - don't short-change the man - but that was also with him missing two weeks because of covid, and Ten scored 42 points in each of those games. I'll allow it, lol.

Yes the flip-side is Davis wasn't a 1500-yard guy on one side, and the TE duo was Griffin/Kroft, but ~1500 combined yards also went to Crowder + Cole + Berrios (much of it I'm sure after Moore & Davis were out, if I felt like looking that up further).

Ultimately the difference in QBs (or QB+OC, or OC paired with that QB) more than competition for the same football. Rookie Zach averaged 180 Y/G that year. There's plenty more yards to go around if that # is closer to 280 instead. 

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36 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Eh.  Failure to self-scout is a problem.  Just because you are winning (against a string of 2nd and 3 string QBs no less) does not mean that you stop looking at what can be done better.  The way that he went about it was horrible, but his lack of use really showed. 

He asked for a trade and had his tirad right after the Packer game.  3rd win in a row of a 4 game win streak.   4 and 2.  We put up 40 against Miami and 27 against the Packers in a game that wasn't close down the stretch.   In the Miami game he had 1 catch for 11 yards.  The Packer game we ran the ball and didn't throw much and the game was well in hand early in the 4th quarter.  He didn't get a touch.  He wasn't needed.

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7 hours ago, rangerous said:

Yeah they looked bad. Bubby  Brister used to throw a nice bounce pass. But I will say that in the few BYU Zach games I didn’t see him throw many passes like screens or to the backs. His passes all went downfield.  And did a lot of rolling out on both sides. So it could just be that he needs a lot more practice throwing the short touch passes.

He can't manage NFL pass rush.  It's nothing like BYU.  Some can adapt and some can't. Hope Zach gets his chance one day. On another team.

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I have to start bookmarking these threads for discussion 1/4 of the way through the 2023 season. With a new OC and possibly a competent QB, we are going to see if Moore was underutilized or a diva. I think that it's a combination of both. LaFleur made the wide receivers work for the system and not the system for the wide receivers. It also doesn't help that Zach Wilson was playing semi-pro football level QB. 

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54 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I have to start bookmarking these threads for discussion 1/4 of the way through the 2023 season. With a new OC and possibly a competent QB, we are going to see if Moore was underutilized or a diva. I think that it's a combination of both. LaFleur made the wide receivers work for the system and not the system for the wide receivers. It also doesn't help that Zach Wilson was playing semi-pro football level QB. 

Except for 1-2 debbie downers I think most of us feel this way.  

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19 hours ago, WhartonJet said:

I think there is a real possibility the Jets move on from Moore this offseason to recoup some of the draft capital after trading for Aaron Rodgers.  In that scenario, signing someone like Alan Lazard makes alot of sense to replace Moore

Moore is redundant with Wilson here, and the Jets would do well to swap him for a bigger target. Moore’s biggest problem is that he sees himself in that AJ Brown/DK Metcalf mold, and he simply not on that level. 

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LOL - every thread turns into a ZW sucks - maybe we should only have one thread.

As for Moore - he doesn't seem to get open; he looked like crap with 4 different QBs. I get that the Jets O was terrible last year, and he didn't have a choice on where he landed, but I am tired of his whining. Truth is, he was at best the 3rd best WR on the team. Add to the fact that Breece was more explosive as a WR and we had some almost competent play out of our TEs, what do you expect. You want to be utilized more, try getting some separation....

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8 hours ago, Dcat said:

He can't manage NFL pass rush.  It's nothing like BYU.  Some can adapt and some can't. Hope Zach gets his chance one day. On another team.

That’s certainly the biggest difference between college and pros.  Zwilson wouldn’t be the first qb who didn’t adjust fast enough.  At the same time it’s about what’s between his ears and if he wants it, he could be quite a qb.

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11 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

LOL - every thread turns into a ZW sucks - maybe we should only have one thread.

As for Moore - he doesn't seem to get open; he looked like crap with 4 different QBs. I get that the Jets O was terrible last year, and he didn't have a choice on where he landed, but I am tired of his whining. Truth is, he was at best the 3rd best WR on the team. Add to the fact that Breece was more explosive as a WR and we had some almost competent play out of our TEs, what do you expect. You want to be utilized more, try getting some separation....

Zackenberg still sucks.  Elijah Moore is a good WR.

 

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43 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

Zackenberg still sucks.  Elijah Moore is a good WR.

 

2nd year guy who can't get separation and is 3rd on depth chart shouldn't be complaining about touches - and there were 3 other QBs (or more like 2) who was throwing to him - it isn't all on ZW. You put him on a team with a young Rodgers or Brady and he is still the #3 WR who can't get separation.

It is bad enough that this players mouth off, but at least they should put up on field and shut up. Besides, he was complaining about his reduced utilization from last year when, wait for it, it was mostly ZW throwing to him. The biggest thing that changed from last year is that GW and Breece are here and we have almost competent TE play.

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On 2/3/2023 at 8:55 AM, LIJetsFan said:

By IMissFatRex  Feb 2, 2023

In week 6, the New York Jets defeated the Green Bay Packers in what was widely considered an upset. However, the story of the Jets the following week largely focused on wide receiver Elijah Moore, who tweeted his dissatisfaction with his offensive role after the victory and then was dismissed from the team that week. Notably, this was quite the fall from grace for a player who was often pegged as a breakout candidate in 2022 following a strong rookie season in 2021.

At the core of Moore’s dissatisfaction was his role in the offensive and his target share. As said by Moore in regards to his chemistry with then starting Quarterback Zach Wilson, “I don’t know, I couldn’t even tell you [what our chemistry is]. I don’t get the ball.”

Part of Moore’s argument regarding frustration over his under-utilization seemed to be he felt he was open, but not getting the ball. Now that the season has concluded, I thought it would be interesting to evaluate Moore’s 2022 season through a deeper dive into his underlying analytics. Specifically, while we know Moore wasn’t targeted often (66 targets in 16 games), I wanted to know if he was actually getting open. To evaluate this claim, I will be relying on data from fivethirtyeight’s wide receiver rankings as well as playerprofiler, both of which provide analytic data for wide receivers beyond their raw output stats (catches, yards, touchdowns, etc.).

To begin, I will detail fivethirtyeight’s evaluation of Elijah Moore. Specifically, they ranked him as the 40th best ‘overall’ receiver within their model that accounts for the regularity with which receivers get open, as the degree to which they catch the passes thrown to them, and their yards after the catch production. Details on how these scores are calculated can be found here. Related to the idea Moore was open at a better rate than his targets would indicate, he received an openness score that ranked 47th in the league. By no means is 47th a stellar outcome, but it would place him safely in the WR2 range given there are 32 NFL teams. Overall, this would support Moore was indeed better than his production as he ranked 73rd in yards receiving and 61st in targets. Additional evidence to support Moore’s claims about being underutilized can be found in playerprofiler’s data as they report Moore was 100th among wide receivers in target rate despite being 30th in route win rate.

Moreover, the data from playerprofiler provides further rationale for why Moore was so frustrated. Specifically, while Moore’s target separation (a receiver’s average yards of separation from his assigned defender at the moment the pass arrives) ranked 12th in the league at 2.14 yards, his catchable target rate (percentage of total targets that are deemed catchable) ranked 98th at 54.5%. This implies that not only was Moore not targeted at a rate aligned with his success rate on a per route basis, but that the throws were significantly off target on the relatively rate occasion when he was targeted. To hit home on the discrepancy of these figures, playerprofiler also provides a “true catch rate” statistic, which is calculated by dividing a receiver’s number of catches by their number of catchable passes. Within this statistic, Moore ranked 5th in the league with a score of 102.8%, implying Moore caught more passes this season than should have been expected based on his target quality (according to playerprofiler’s model).

Overall, while Moore’s season was a resounding disappointment, there is rationale to suggest it may not have been all his fault. In fact, we could use this data to argue Moore may be a prime ‘bounceback’ candidate in 2023, especially if the Jets acquire a high quality QB who can deliver a larger amount of targets and catchable targets for Moore.

Full of certainty that isn’t earned.

Alternative that fits the same stats: 

 If he’s running the wrong routes passes will be off target and he’d be throw to less often.  If that’s true a new OC and better coaching still works.  

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