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Cimini: LaFleur and Rex Hogan pushed for Zach, said he was better than Lawrence


T0mShane

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

lmao

Zach buried LaFleur, who's the one who most wanted him in the first place.

The idea that he'd bang the table so hard for him and also not bang the table for a veteran in place, so Zach could sit for 1-3 years, seems pretty far-fetched.

Douglas followed the advice of the guy hired to run the offense. Turned down a wealth of picks, which it seems is normally a move he makes, and is now full of fat and regret as the OC isn't even here anymore but he's still left holding the Zach potato. 

yeah, I'm with you.  This is scapegoating 101 but is Hogan on the staff still?  Wondering how this sits w/ him.

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:


 

2. Douglas did turn down fat offers for the 2 pick. (the Jets have always claimed they “never talked to San Fran” about the pick). In a piece written about Jalen Hurts a few weeks ago, it was reported that the Eagles were desperate to come up for Zach, but Douglas refused, and that’s how the Eagles ended up with Hurts.

Hurts was not in the zach Wilson draft. He was drafted a year prior

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1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Someone getting paid to evaluate football players coming away with Wilson being better than Lawrence is something. 

Last year, they were both atrocious. One got a great offensive coach in to help and one didn't. One took a huge step forward, one took a step backward. Neither looked any good last year

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11 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

If you deconstruct what happened, I think the logical conclusion was that the right move was to: 1)  trade the pick and use the capital to draft an O line and skill players; 2) put Darnold or a mediocre veteran at QB; 3) wait for the O-line to mature and begin to play as above average group; 4) wait for the new O to be fully installed by the OC and become second nature to the players; 5) then, after the boxes for 1 through 4 have been checked, go find a young QB to become your starter - and make him win the job -  sitting him for a year if necessary.

The lesson to be learned? You can't rush some things. It takes a few years to build an Offense consistent and mature enough to put a rookie QB into and expect anything other than poor results and the development of bad habits.

Looking back to his rookie season it’s still insane to me he barely played in preseason. Wilson needed reps for than anything. An inexperienced college QB from a small conference who rarely faced pressure and the plan was well hopefully it clicks immediately. The expectations on both sides were never communicated. 

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3 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

If you deconstruct what happened, I think the logical conclusion was that the right move was to: 1)  trade the pick and use the capital to draft an O line and skill players; 2) put Darnold or a mediocre veteran at QB; 3) wait for the O-line to mature and begin to play as above average group; 4) wait for the new O to be fully installed by the OC and become second nature to the players; 5) then, after the boxes for 1 through 4 have been checked, go find a young QB to become your starter - and make him win the job -  sitting him for a year if necessary.

The lesson to be learned? You can't rush some things. It takes a few years to build an Offense consistent and mature enough to put a rookie QB into and expect anything other than poor results and the development of bad habits.

Normally I would agree, but young qbs take years to develop, and it made sense to use a high draft pick for a chance to get a killer young qb.  From a timing perspective, it was the right call (and JD knew that the 2022 draft class was going to be mediocre).  I think there was a better case to be made to trade down for a midround pick, use the pick on Mac Jones or Mills and we would still have had selections.

I remember thinking that the 2021 draft only really had 1 qb, but that beggars can't be choosers, and we didn't have much of a choice about what to spend our assets on, so we needed to shoot for the moon on a consensus top 10 gamble.  I was under no illusions that it wasn't a very risky pick, but gun to my head i'd probably make the same decision again (without the benefit of hindsight).

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And? So now it’s Zach year three so he should be ready.  Milfy may very be the guy pounding the table for Wilson but just when was he so vociferous for the rest of the offense.  The one inconsistency I see is why would milfy try to install an offense that Wilson had trouble executing?  Pretty stupid. I think the only saving grace is the offense only really started to fall apart when avt and hall went down and the revolving door on the oline.  But this too is on milfy for calling plays the team couldn’t execute.

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I always wondered how often GM's make picks they wouldn't have otherwise made in order to accomodate their coaching staff. The picks that don't work out leave the GM's with egg on their faces when the were only trying to help the coaches build a better team. That said, the GM has the power to veto those requests and probably should have in this case.

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

lmao

Zach buried LaFleur, who's the one who most wanted him in the first place.

The idea that he'd bang the table so hard for him and also not bang the table for a veteran in place, so Zach could sit for 1-3 years, seems pretty far-fetched.

Douglas followed the advice of the guy hired to run the offense. Turned down a wealth of picks, which it seems is normally a move he makes, and is now full of fat and regret as the OC isn't even here anymore but he's still left holding the Zach potato. 

I vividly remember reading around the draft that MLF was the one who wanted ZW the most, well before he put on a Jets uniform.

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Just now, Jet Blast said:

I always wondered how often GM's make picks, they wouldn't have otherwise made, in order to accomodate their coaching staff. The picks that don't work out leave the GM's with egg on their faces when the were only trying to help the coaches build a better team. That said, the GM has the power to  veto those requests, and probably should have, in this case.

This is why we are a sh*t organization, we don't have true lines of accountability, and true lines of decision making. The coaching staff 100% should have a major say in who gets drafted, the scuts measure certain things about the players, but the coaches have to make them work.

The problem is who in their right mind would think MLF had any credibility or ability in identifying a raw college QB?? 

Good orgs don't do stupid things like that

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So if Cimini is telling the truth here, Lafleur is one of the people who advocated to bring him here, yet when the heat was turned up on him he reversed course and said he shouldn't have started from day 1, as if he didnt bang on the table for him...

And this is the guy some of you say should have remained the OC? 

?

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Isn’t Rex Hogan there to take the blame.  While Hogan is charged with making personnel decisions, not MLF.

Most fans have no idea who Rex Hogan is.

Almost every fan, even the casuals, knows who MLF is. 

And MLF was the one who was fired in part because of the low quality play of Zach Wilson.

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

in the extreme unlikelihood this is factual?

You think people CYA'ing by leaking info to Cimini about the drafting of the biggest QB bust in NFL history (to-date) is "extremely unlikely"?

Interesting take.

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1 minute ago, Dcat said:

Sorry guys, but the blame for drafting Zach Wilson goes to a guy named Joe Douglas.  Not MLF, Not Hogan, Not anyone else.  The catastrophe, aka as our 2nd round pick Bust Wilson is 100% (not 90% or 99%, but 100%) Joe Douglas' fault.

I'm sorry, but there is no valid deflection of where the blame here belongs. 

It is J-O-E  D-O-U-G-L-A-S's fault.  Every morsel of Zach-blame goes to our pretzyl-loving GM.

“Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan".

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3 minutes ago, undertow said:

If true which I doubt all it proves is everyone who let it happens is more clueless than MLF and should be fired.

you only doubt it because you put so much hatred into ZW, who was the wrong person to hate. The right people are the idiots who run the Jets, who you in this post correctly identify as even more clueless for letting it happen.

Its no secret why we suck, we are run like sh*t as an organization, starting with the owner on down. But instead of calling out the real problem, Jets fans direct all their hate at the young QB

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6 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

you only doubt it because you put so much hatred into ZW, who was the wrong person to hate. The right people are the idiots who run the Jets, who you in this post correctly identify as even more clueless for letting it happen.

Its no secret why we suck, we are run like sh*t as an organization, starting with the owner on down. But instead of calling out the real problem, Jets fans direct all their hate at the young QB

Two things can be true at the same time.

  • We've been run poorly.
  • Zach Wilson is the biggest QB bust in modern NFL history.

No worries, you'll come around eventually.  You "leave Brittney alone" types always do, once your dreamboat gets cut or traded.  

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6 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

he 100% was the reason, this was documented at the time of the draft

I dont remember it this way.  I remember the reports saying JD was head over heels for him.  He was front and center at his proday, gushing over him and I dont even think Lil Mikey was there.

 

Cimini explained that Douglas only met Wilson in person once during the draft process, at BYU’s pro day in late March. It was a meeting that made a strong impression — “Ultimately that pro day really, really cemented it,” Douglas told Cimini.

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Just now, Flea Flicking Frank said:

you only doubt it because you put so much hatred into ZW, who was the wrong person to hate. The right people are the idiots who run the Jets, who you in this post correctly identify as even more clueless for letting it happen.

Its no secret why we suck, we are run like sh*t as an organization, starting with the owner on down. But instead of calling out the real problem, Jets fans direct all their hate at the young QB

The whole point of the article is to pass blame on to other people besides the GM/coach/owner which I'm pointing out makes them look worse if true so I'm basically agreeing with you......regardless this has nothing to do with Zach Wilson being a bust.

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22 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Two things can be true at the same time.

  • We're been run poorly.
  • Zach Wilson is the biggest QB bust in modern NFL history.

No worries, you'll come around eventually.  You "leave Brittney alone" types always do, once your dreamboat gets cut or traded.  

removed by Max

Edited by Maxman
If you want to type it out again without telling people to shove stuff up their ass go for it. Personal attacks like that are garbage and not welcome here.
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3 minutes ago, JiFields said:

I dont remember it this way.  I remember the reports saying JD was head over heels for him.  He was front and center at his proday, gushing over him and I dont even think Lil Mikey was there.

 

Cimini explained that Douglas only met Wilson in person once during the draft process, at BYU’s pro day in late March. It was a meeting that made a strong impression — “Ultimately that pro day really, really cemented it,” Douglas told Cimini.

I remember it very, very clearly. I wanted Fields in the draft, but I remember reading an article about how MLF really went to back for ZW and how MLF was considered a bright up and coming football mind, and I got on board with the pick strictly because of that

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6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Two things can be true at the same time.

  • We've been run poorly.
  • Zach Wilson is the biggest QB bust in modern NFL history.

No worries, you'll come around eventually.  You "leave Brittney alone" types always do, once your dreamboat gets cut or traded.  

Wait, Brittney got traded ?

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4 minutes ago, undertow said:

The whole point of the article is to pass blame on to other people besides the GM/coach/owner which I'm pointing out makes them look worse if true so I'm basically agreeing with you......regardless this has nothing to do with Zach Wilson being a bust.

I don't care about ZW, he is done, I care about the Jets. When you run your org like sh*t, you get sh*t players and sh*t results. I want a better run org. Hating ZW does not get that done, it deflects the blame on ZW instead of the real place it should be

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Just now, Flea Flicking Frank said:

see the difference between me and you is, I don't give a rats ass about ZW. I have been a die hard fan of this team since the late 70's. Players come and go, QB's come and go. I don't give a crap about the individual players anymore than what they do or don't do for the Jets. You on the other hand get wrapped up in emotion.

ZW is done with the Jets, long gone, will never throw another pass. Hating on him does literally nothing to solve the real problem, which is how we are run. If we continue to run things the way we do, we will get more "Zach Wilson's" for you to hate and direct your hate at.

I'll continue to address my displeasure over the real problem, as for Brittney, take your emo and stick it up your ass. I'll stick to logic and facts,  let the woman like you deal in emotion. Not getting your way in the draft has turned into a 3 year temper tantrum for you, enjoy yourself

This is major projection....the emotional people weren't the ones correctly analyzing the play of the 2nd overall pick it was those pretending he was playing well throwing for 150 yards and missing wide open receivers by 10 yards and calling people fake miserable fans for not living in their warped reality.

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5 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

see the difference between me and you is, I don't give a rats ass about ZW.

Sure you don't, you just white knight him in nearly every post coincidentally.  I'm sure.

5 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I have been a die hard fan of this team since the late 70's. Players come and go, QB's come and go.

So do posters here at JN.  

5 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

You on the other hand get wrapped up in emotion.

Says the guy endlessly prattling about "hate" biases against Wilson, lol.  You're nothing but emotional language.

5 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

ZW is done with the Jets, long gone, will never throw another pass.

Very much still TBD.  

5 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Hating on him does literally nothing to solve the real problem, which is how we are run.

Whining about the Owner won't change things either.  He doesn't listen to this forum, and he isn't selling.

5 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I'll continue to address my displeasure over the real problem, as for Brittney, take your emo and stick it up your ass.

Be careful, that sounds alot like emotion.  

5 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I'll stick to logic and facts,  let the woman like you deal in emotion. Not getting your way in the draft has turned into a 3 year temper tantrum for you, enjoy yourself

I do.  Every day.  

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