Cimini: LaFleur and Rex Hogan pushed for Zach, said he was better than Lawrence

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Like debating the GOAT, opinions will differ.

But you're probably right.

Not even remotely.

When I call him a historic bust, I still think it's important to add the "to-date" part.  Fair is fair, after all.

It's quite unlikely he turns it around based on events so far, but it's not impossible.  

Yeah I expect nothing, like I said. 

I'm quite sure you felt Geno was irredeemable at one point, too.

No it's not lost on me that for every Geno there are probably 50 who don't turn it around. Maybe it'd happen more often if some HC was willing to stick his neck out like Carroll did - he's also the one who was willing to bench his $$ FA QB for a short 3rd round rookie - but it's still the exception not the rule. 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Zachtomims47 said:

I remember White did not look good in camp and Flacco was doing really well. Prob why it started in that order. 

That is fine, but the question remains:  Why was White's promotion to 2nd string tied to Wilson sucking instead of White playing well? 

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah I expect nothing, like I said. 

I'm quite sure you felt Geno was irredeemable at one point, too.

No it's not lost on me that for every Geno there are probably 50 who don't turn it around. Maybe it'd happen more often if some HC was willing to stick his neck out like Carroll did - he's also the one who was willing to bench his $$ FA QB for a short 3rd round rookie - but it's still the exception not the rule. 

Just gotta wait 10 years for Zach to be….pretty good….and lose in the divisional round.  Perfect!!

[Mogglez]

51 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Last I checked, MLF worked for Saleh.

And Saleh worked for JD.

Now, unless you're saying that they both deferred to their rookie O-Co and gave MLF the authority to make the decision on how to use the #2 overall pick, then it doesn't matter if MLF liked Zach or not at some point.  The call isn't and wasn't his, and leaking stories to attempt to lay it at the feet of MLF now that he is gone is still 100% scapegoating/deflection by those who remain.

As I said earlier, success has many fathers whilst failure is an orphan, and leaks like this are pretty obviously trying to pin blame on the junior (fired in everything but name) O-Co, to help repair the public image of the Head Coach and GM who managed him and had the actual authority to make the pick in question.

This is less a defense of MLF, than a criticism of existing management/staff for grinding axes and leaking this to Cimini.

P.S. missed opportunity by you to use the "He's Right, You Know" Morgan Freeman Gif.  Just say'in.

Oh I know.  They’re all to blame for Zach.  I’m not excusing anyone, but LaFleur’s camp tried to float it out there before he was axed that he wanted nothing to do with Wilson, which could not be further from the truth, and I just wanted to add on to what Cimini had said.

[Green Ghost]

3 hours ago, DoubleDown said:

Some of the claims don't seem plausible.

There is little doubt in my mind that if Douglas received a big offer to trade down from #2, he would have taken it, and tried to build around Sam Darnold in years 4 and 5 of his rookie contract.

So you really believe SF made that huge deal with Miami for the #3 pick in that draft without trying to do it with the Jets at #2?
Come on man….

[Warfish]

7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah I expect nothing, like I said.

For the best, really.

7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm quite sure you felt Geno was irredeemable at one point, too.

He was.  

7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No it's not lost on me that for every Geno there are probably 50 who don't turn it around.

I think you might be able to identify maybe 4-5 guys in the entire history of the NFL who failed as clearly and spectacularly as Geno did, then hung around the league as an all-but-forgotten backup/3rd string for most of a decade, then had an out of nowhere great season like he did this year.

Fewer still who repeated that great, late career, season in the following year.  

7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Maybe it'd happen more often if some HC was willing to stick his neck out like Carroll did - he's also the one who was willing to bench his $$ FA QB for a short 3rd round rookie - but it's still the exception not the rule. 

You said.  The exceptionally rare exception.  One that no one in the NFL would have held for six full seasons as a backup hoping it would eventually click for him.  And it's still TBD if he is any good in 2023, otherwise it's just an extreme oddity, a trivia question, not a basis for roster management. 

[Guilhermezmc]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I have no doubt that LaFleur loved Zach at the time, but what was documented at the time was that Saleh loved him, LaFleur loved him, Douglas loved him, etc etc etc. You know who still loves him? Joe Douglas—the same guy who apparently refused a wondrous package of first and second round picks for #2, and he didn’t refuse those offers because of Mike LaFleur’s insistence

so....? fire jd?

count me in if anyone want to fly the planes

[Warfish]

8 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Oh I know.  They’re all to blame for Zach.  I’m not excusing anyone, but LaFleur’s camp tried to float it out there before he was axed that he wanted nothing to do with Wilson, which could not be further from the truth, and I just wanted to add on to what Cimini had said.

Ok, got it.  Agreed, MLF doesn't get to walk away responsibility-free.  If he advocated for Wilson, that's on him, as well as the others above him in the chain of command/decision making.

[Jet Nut]

7 hours ago, Warfish said:

You think people CYA'ing by leaking info to Cimini about the drafting of the biggest QB bust in NFL history (to-date) is "extremely unlikely"?

Interesting take.

Logical take given you said the team is scapegoating the story by laying it on the guy who was fired.  While Hogan, their personnel guy is sitting there getting equal blame while still around.  

Pretty sure just about every fan should know who Hogan is.  He’s been written up all over, was well spoken of, is in every draft room and has been featured on 1JD. 

One last thought, if they were making MLF the scapegoat for the pick would Saleh and JD claim at the end of the season they haven’t given up hope for ZW?  Saleh said they still see the tools that led them to draft him.  And if he was the scapegoat shouldnt the table banging etc have come from Saleh and JD, not the incompetent Cimini?

 

[SickJetFan]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Douglas and co were scouting Zach Wilson while MLF was still on the Niners staff. 

the Niners staff could have been scouting him too while MLF was still there? Maybe why MLF liked him soooo much.

 

I was no fan Cimini for years but these days he seems most clued in because he has that little resource called espn where guys like Hughes constantly look for crumbs or just make sh*t up.

[football guy]

This has been well known for a long time, and if you read between the lines it kind of gives insight as far as why the relationship between Mike LaFleur, Zach Wilson, and the Jets organization soured over the last 2 years. Zach was always going to be the pick, but MLF declared him as the best QB prospect in years. He declared Zach pro-ready before he even stepped foot on campus. In fairness, that was before Greg Knapp tragically passed; Knapp too felt that he could coach Wilson and have him ready to play day 1. When adversity hit, MLF did not want to adapt nor did he want to accommodate Zach or spend the extra time to develop him - he wanted Zach and Calabrese to figure it out on their own because any time spent with Zach took away from MLF's time spent on game planning. MLF never wanted to deviate form his process - everything from the way the offense was designed, the way he was coached, availability for one-on-one meetings (Zach spent more time with Saleh than he did MLF), down to play-calling from the sidelines vs. the booth, which really was an awful way of handling things. While unintentional, MLF basically fed Zach and Calabrese to the wolves, expecting them to figure things out on the fly and anytime difficult questions/situations came up, MLF tried distancing himself from them... everything was fine, no one knew what they were talking about, just listen to what I tell you do to and it'll all be fine... he was conflict avoidant and really struggled with the person-to-person aspect of things, for whatever reason unable to realize that players were not robots and each personality needed to be coached differently. The second MLF was pinned in a corner, he wanted another more experienced QB because that player more self-sufficient and could operate more of a "joystick" for LaFleur to direct where and when the passes get thrown in his offense better than Zach could due to issues with timing and fundamentals, which were not brought to the attention to the organization until things went bad. Temporary fix sure, but this is no way to develop a QB. 

Regardless whether Zach is it or not, the "process" MLF was so hellbent adhering to was not one conducive to player development. It's one thing if the QB was forced on the coach, but MLF was one of the most vocal supporters of Zach from pre-draft through his first preseason. The fact that he could be so high on a player and so quickly kick him to the curb despite putting in little effort to help improve that player really turned off a lot of people in ownership and some in the football operation. There were people in the football side who understood what MLF was trying to build ("system" > player), but it just seemed way too rigid with too little margin for error... again, this is a first-time coordinator, not Bill Belichick. A lot of people thought it would've worked had they had someone more experienced working with MLF, but it became clear that players grew unenthused with him and that the organization was not committed to him (was not offered a 1-year extension the way the defensive staff was). I think MLF can be a good coach, but only way he'll be successful is if he (a) improves his communication and leadership; or (b) is constantly surrounded by a strong staff who can pick up the slack in player development, allowing MLF to focus on constructing the scheme, playbook, and game plans. 

 

[Matt39]

14 minutes ago, football guy said:

This has been well known for a long time, and if you read between the lines it kind of gives insight as far as why the relationship between Mike LaFleur, Zach Wilson, and the Jets organization soured over the last 2 years. Zach was always going to be the pick, but MLF declared him as the best QB prospect in years. He declared Zach pro-ready before he even stepped foot on campus. In fairness, that was before Greg Knapp tragically passed; Knapp too felt that he could coach Wilson and have him ready to play day 1. When adversity hit, MLF did not want to adapt nor did he want to accommodate Zach or spend the extra time to develop him - he wanted Zach and Calabrese to figure it out on their own because any time spent with Zach took away from MLF's time spent on game planning. MLF never wanted to deviate form his process - everything from the way the offense was designed, the way he was coached, availability for one-on-one meetings (Zach spent more time with Saleh than he did MLF), down to play-calling from the sidelines vs. the booth, which really was an awful way of handling things. While unintentional, MLF basically fed Zach and Calabrese to the wolves, expecting them to figure things out on the fly and anytime difficult questions/situations came up, MLF tried distancing himself from them... everything was fine, no one knew what they were talking about, just listen to what I tell you do to and it'll all be fine... he was conflict avoidant and really struggled with the person-to-person aspect of things, for whatever reason unable to realize that players were not robots and each personality needed to be coached differently. The second MLF was pinned in a corner, he wanted another more experienced QB because that player more self-sufficient and could operate more of a "joystick" for LaFleur to direct where and when the passes get thrown in his offense better than Zach could due to issues with timing and fundamentals, which were not brought to the attention to the organization until things went bad. Temporary fix sure, but this is no way to develop a QB. 

Regardless whether Zach is it or not, the "process" MLF was so hellbent adhering to was not one conducive to player development. It's one thing if the QB was forced on the coach, but MLF was one of the most vocal supporters of Zach from pre-draft through his first preseason. The fact that he could be so high on a player and so quickly kick him to the curb despite putting in little effort to help improve that player really turned off a lot of people in ownership and some in the football operation. There were people in the football side who understood what MLF was trying to build ("system" > player), but it just seemed way too rigid with too little margin for error... again, this is a first-time coordinator, not Bill Belichick. A lot of people thought it would've worked had they had someone more experienced working with MLF, but it became clear that players grew unenthused with him and that the organization was not committed to him (was not offered a 1-year extension the way the defensive staff was). I think MLF can be a good coach, but only way he'll be successful is if he (a) improves his communication and leadership; or (b) is constantly surrounded by a strong staff who can pick up the slack in player development, allowing MLF to focus on constructing the scheme, playbook, and game plans. 

 

Whose decision was it to barely play him in the preseason his rookie year? I appreciate the post but I’m sorry it just sounds like one giant excuse for Douglas and Saleh. It’s Saleh’s job to get Wilson ready. It was also his job to set the expectations with Lefleur.

[T0mShane]

20 minutes ago, football guy said:

This has been well known for a long time, and if you read between the lines it kind of gives insight as far as why the relationship between Mike LaFleur, Zach Wilson, and the Jets organization soured over the last 2 years. Zach was always going to be the pick, but MLF declared him as the best QB prospect in years. He declared Zach pro-ready before he even stepped foot on campus. In fairness, that was before Greg Knapp tragically passed; Knapp too felt that he could coach Wilson and have him ready to play day 1. When adversity hit, MLF did not want to adapt nor did he want to accommodate Zach or spend the extra time to develop him - he wanted Zach and Calabrese to figure it out on their own because any time spent with Zach took away from MLF's time spent on game planning. MLF never wanted to deviate form his process - everything from the way the offense was designed, the way he was coached, availability for one-on-one meetings (Zach spent more time with Saleh than he did MLF), down to play-calling from the sidelines vs. the booth, which really was an awful way of handling things. While unintentional, MLF basically fed Zach and Calabrese to the wolves, expecting them to figure things out on the fly and anytime difficult questions/situations came up, MLF tried distancing himself from them... everything was fine, no one knew what they were talking about, just listen to what I tell you do to and it'll all be fine... he was conflict avoidant and really struggled with the person-to-person aspect of things, for whatever reason unable to realize that players were not robots and each personality needed to be coached differently. The second MLF was pinned in a corner, he wanted another more experienced QB because that player more self-sufficient and could operate more of a "joystick" for LaFleur to direct where and when the passes get thrown in his offense better than Zach could due to issues with timing and fundamentals, which were not brought to the attention to the organization until things went bad. Temporary fix sure, but this is no way to develop a QB. 

Regardless whether Zach is it or not, the "process" MLF was so hellbent adhering to was not one conducive to player development. It's one thing if the QB was forced on the coach, but MLF was one of the most vocal supporters of Zach from pre-draft through his first preseason. The fact that he could be so high on a player and so quickly kick him to the curb despite putting in little effort to help improve that player really turned off a lot of people in ownership and some in the football operation. There were people in the football side who understood what MLF was trying to build ("system" > player), but it just seemed way too rigid with too little margin for error... again, this is a first-time coordinator, not Bill Belichick. A lot of people thought it would've worked had they had someone more experienced working with MLF, but it became clear that players grew unenthused with him and that the organization was not committed to him (was not offered a 1-year extension the way the defensive staff was). I think MLF can be a good coach, but only way he'll be successful is if he (a) improves his communication and leadership; or (b) is constantly surrounded by a strong staff who can pick up the slack in player development, allowing MLF to focus on constructing the scheme, playbook, and game plans. 

 

I think the counter to all this is that even though they fired LaFleur, they’re still (allegedly) begging Rodgers to take their $120 million dollars. You’d think if the blame fell, in majority, in LaFleur’s lap, they would simply go back to Zach Wilson with a new OC, but it sure sounds like zero people in the building would even humor the thought, from the owner on down. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think the counter to all this is that even though they fired LaFleur, they’re still (allegedly) begging Rodgers to take their $120 million dollars. You’d think if the blame fell, in majority, in LaFleur’s lap, they would simply go back to Zach Wilson with a new OC, but it sure sounds like zero people in the building would even humor the thought, from the owner on down. 

1) ZW is broken, even more broken than he was before he started here. His confidence is completely shot, and his mechanics have regressed, and his teammates have no confidence in him.

2) the Fan base may burn down met life stadium if they even entertained this, if they even thought this was possible

 

[Biggs]

4 hours ago, Maxman said:

The Jets were a terrible team. They were trying to find a franchise QB. I don't have a problem with the swing and miss.

JD built up the talent level and Saleh has this defense rolling. Time to change course and get a vet QB because this is a win now team. That is partly do to Douglas and partly due to Saleh and the defensive staff.

I have a huge problem with it.  The draft capital they gave up for that swing and miss was huge.   Today because the swung and missed they are rumored to be going into the market and trying to get a proven QB.   Imagine if we were doing that with those additional players on on the roster and the inditional picks in our pocket?

Douglas made a decision to swing when his wingman was a DC rookie HC who hired a rookie OC with no real experience.  The Jets were supposedly building the "right" way.  The right way isn't swinging and missing on Becton when Whirfs was available.  The right way wasn't swinging and missing on a project when a hual of draft picks were on the table and other projects were available in later rounds.  

When you're rebuilding with little over all talent swings and misses with top draft capital are a disastrer.  If you're going to rebuild the roster through the draft and if you swing and miss on the QB why not bring in a proven veteran and build the roster through the draft?  Swinging and missing gets you fired. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Fire Hogan.

[56mehl56]

20 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think the counter to all this is that even though they fired LaFleur, they’re still (allegedly) begging Rodgers to take their $120 million dollars. You’d think if the blame fell, in majority, in LaFleur’s lap, they would simply go back to Zach Wilson with a new OC, but it sure sounds like zero people in the building would even humor the thought, from the owner on down. 

But the issue is now its late in the game , specifically 2 years in , they can't "develop" ZW solely for another year and have it crash down on them. They hopefully (new offensive staff)  will commit do the work necessary in TC, PS classroom to preserve the asset(ZW) which would be the best outcome while utilizing a Vet QB to run the team in parallel. If ZW evoles it gives either a potential long term starter or a trade chip. If not then they are starting the process over looking for the long term answer. 

[Matt39]

43 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think the counter to all this is that even though they fired LaFleur, they’re still (allegedly) begging Rodgers to take their $120 million dollars. You’d think if the blame fell, in majority, in LaFleur’s lap, they would simply go back to Zach Wilson with a new OC, but it sure sounds like zero people in the building would even humor the thought, from the owner on down. 

Bits theory is that this whole thing is window dressing to sell the fanbase while ending up with a Brissett and Wilson next year 

[RutgersJetFan]

46 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think the counter to all this is that even though they fired LaFleur, they’re still (allegedly) begging Rodgers to take their $120 million dollars. You’d think if the blame fell, in majority, in LaFleur’s lap, they would simply go back to Zach Wilson with a new OC, but it sure sounds like zero people in the building would even humor the thought, from the owner on down. 

Woody would entertain the sh*t out of not spending $120 million.

[Dcat]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Bits theory is that this whole thing is window dressing to sell the fanbase while ending up with a Brissett and Wilson next year 

Said "theory" ignores the insanity of both JD and Saleh hanging their careers on Zach Wilson.  It ignores the lunacy of thinking the rest of the clubhouse is going to be OK starting Zach.  But it won't be the first time Bit's theories, whether they arise from hallucinations of Woody's "cheapness" or, in this case, the looney belief that Woody has pledged to help the Wilsons' son, Zach because they are a rich family.    That doesn't mean we definitely get either Rodgers or Carr either.  Carr will likely be a Saint and Rodgers probably stays in Green Bay or goes Vegas.   Whether it's garoppolo, Brissett, Dalton, or whatever, Zach is holding a clipboard until he can complete passes in practices.  

 

[UntouchableCrew]

2 hours ago, slimjasi said:

If it is, it won't work. He's the GM. He needs to replace Zach Wilson with a guy we can win with next year or rub some magic dust on Zach's head to get him to wake up immediately. Otherwise, he's getting fired regardless of which coaches or front office people pounded the table for Wilson. 

Maybe. He just drafted the offensive and defensive rookies of the year. 

If you're Douglas I think you can spin the narrative that you're actually doing a good job minus the whiff on Wilson. I think that's the case, personally.

It all depends on how 2023 plays out, however.

[faba]

Some one had to be the scape goat Lafluer is the easy target but me thinks more to it and others are culpuble

[FootballLove]

6 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Hurts was not in the zach Wilson draft. He was drafted a year prior

Hurts was bad his first year and the Eagletts MAY have been looking for a do-over, going up and getting ZW? When that didn't pan out, they kept Hurts? Just speculation.

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

I have a huge problem with it.  The draft capital they gave up for that swing and miss was huge.   Today because the swung and missed they are rumored to be going into the market and trying to get a proven QB.   Imagine if we were doing that with those additional players on on the roster and the inditional picks in our pocket?

Douglas made a decision to swing when his wingman was a DC rookie HC who hired a rookie OC with no real experience.  The Jets were supposedly building the "right" way.  The right way isn't swinging and missing on Becton when Whirfs was available.  The right way wasn't swinging and missing on a project when a hual of draft picks were on the table and other projects were available in later rounds.  

When you're rebuilding with little over all talent swings and misses with top draft capital are a disastrer.  If you're going to rebuild the roster through the draft and if you swing and miss on the QB why not bring in a proven veteran and build the roster through the draft?  Swinging and missing gets you fired. 

Douglas isn't getting fired because he just had the best draft the Jets have ever seen.

Howie Roseman passed on Justin Jefferson for an absolute bust. This isn't an exact science as we all know.

Douglas gets a vet QB in here, a good one, not the kind of vet they could have had two years ago, and this team is a Super Bowl contender next season.

[Maxman]

28 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Maybe. He just drafted the offensive and defensive rookies of the year. 

If you're Douglas I think you can spin the narrative that you're actually doing a good job minus the whiff on Wilson. I think that's the case, personally.

It all depends on how 2023 plays out, however.

Yeah, he isn't getting fired. This team is in the playoffs next year. They have a young talented roster and are coming off the best draft we have ever seen.

[TuscanyTile2]

8 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Someone getting paid to evaluate football players coming away with Wilson being better than Lawrence is something. 

[TuscanyTile2]

It would've been the most Jetsy thing of all time ("JOAT") if we had the #1 pick and took ZW over TL.  

[football guy]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I think the counter to all this is that even though they fired LaFleur, they’re still (allegedly) begging Rodgers to take their $120 million dollars. You’d think if the blame fell, in majority, in LaFleur’s lap, they would simply go back to Zach Wilson with a new OC, but it sure sounds like zero people in the building would even humor the thought, from the owner on down. 

They feel this team is able to compete for a championship and think it would be best to start from square one with Zach. If they acquired Rodgers it would be by far the best mentor for him given their relationship and playing styles, but more importantly Zach would not pose a threat to Rodgers job and could aim to master the offense behind him; Rodgers plays for likely 2 years, Jets evaluate Zach’s progress while learning as his backup, and if all goes accordingly you re-sign him and start him in his 5th year (he’ll be 26 when the season starts). 

If the sign Jimmy, I think they would go into TC annointing Jimmy as the de facto starter, but there would be a lot more room for Zach to steal that job from him the way Kenny Pickett did from Mitch Trubisky. It all comes down to how ready Zach is without pressuring him to be ready. If Zach miraculously reinvented himself over the offseason and was clearly outperforming Jimmy, they’d probably play Zach knowing that they can always go back to Jimmy. That said, more likely Jimmy would start for at least the year

[football guy]

2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Whose decision was it to barely play him in the preseason his rookie year? I appreciate the post but I’m sorry it just sounds like one giant excuse for Douglas and Saleh. It’s Saleh’s job to get Wilson ready. It was also his job to set the expectations with Lefleur.

By no means am I absolving Saleh but I don’t think it’s fair to say getting Wilson ready was his job. He’s the HC- his job is to delegate responsibilities and macro-manage the team/staff. He shouldn’t have to hold Mike LaFleur’s hand through that process, especially when Saleh’s background isn’t on offense. Saleh’s biggest mistake was hiring an ultra-young staff IMO… for a young, developing team void of veteran talent that really made no sense in retrospect.

[varjet]

• With the latest Jets' regime, the Jets had a chance to remake how they operate.  The current FO and CS got good reviews, and we were optimistic.  It now appears that this opportunity may have been squandered again. 
• I can't help but think that, somewhere at 1 JD, Woody was influencing things the wrong way.  He definitely did not want to pick up Darnold's fifth year option.  Everyone thought we could do better with a rookie taken 2 and their rookie contract.  They were wrong.
• John Dorsey got fired after picking Mahomes, Tyreek Hill, Kareem Hunt, Travis Kelce, and others.   There is nothing protecting him now.
• I am having a tough time believing that the Jets are now going to compete in 2023 after having to sign a veteran QB for bigish-big-huge money and replace 2 LBS, 2 S, 2T, C and probably WR.  That just seems like a lot.  My guess is that people at 1 JD are panicking.
• I have said this before-Woody should have fired this regime, or extended them-give them more time to learn to get it right, and not flush money down the Aaron Rodgers toilet.  I just don't have a good feeling on the current direction.  

[SR24]

Lafleur also banged the table for Elijah Moore and we see how that went 

[SR24]

29 minutes ago, football guy said:

By no means am I absolving Saleh but I don’t think it’s fair to say getting Wilson ready was his job. He’s the HC- his job is to delegate responsibilities and macro-manage the team/staff. He shouldn’t have to hold Mike LaFleur’s hand through that process, especially when Saleh’s background isn’t on offense. Saleh’s biggest mistake was hiring an ultra-young staff IMO… for a young, developing team void of veteran talent that really made no sense in retrospect.

Whoever was in charge of hiring/firing coaching personnel should take the grunt of the blame for Zachs lack of development. Replacing Greg Knapp with Calabrese is absolutely criminal especially when you have a 1st time OC and play caller who can’t be on the sidelines. Bringing in 37yr old Joe Flacco who doesn’t want to be here in the first place isn’t enough support either especially not in NY. 

[maury77]

The Zach Wilson hive is the football equivalent of Qanon. If you are still even half expecting Zach Wilson to turn into a legitimate starter in the NFL, then .........

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Maybe. He just drafted the offensive and defensive rookies of the year. 

If you're Douglas I think you can spin the narrative that you're actually doing a good job minus the whiff on Wilson. I think that's the case, personally.

It all depends on how 2023 plays out, however.

I tend to agree with you and want to keep Douglas longterm, but I suspect the jets will have to have a winning record next year for him to be safe - which is why I brought up needing to find a QB good enough to win with right now 

[rex-n-effect]

11 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I tend to agree with you and want to keep Douglas longterm, but I suspect the jets will have to have a winning record next year for him to be safe - which is why I brought up needing to find someone good enough to win right now 

I'm sure both Douglas and Saleh are feeling the pressure to break .500 next year, but I suspect Saleh's position is more fragile than Douglas. Saleh I have to assume took some heat for LaFleur and ZW. With Hackett in the building there is an interim head coach if Saleh craps the bed early in the season. (Not that Hackett has proven a great head coach.) Douglas can at least take some of the heat off himself by canning Saleh.