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Edsen JR- Zach & Mimsie for Sutton Place


hmhertz

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8 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

As tremendous as this back and forth has been, I’ll be honest, as much as context matters, it also matters when comparing Wilson’s play on a more talented team to less talented teams that equally talented QB’s have been under center for. Darnold is the prime example. If a guy cannot play in this league, it’s fairly easy to tell no matter what context is considered in all of this.

Yeah, using Darnold as an example of how easy it is? That’s ludicrous Mike. 
You know how much sh*t I took for being the first and loudest guy to say Darnold stunk. Hell, I got banned because a certain mod here got tired of me saying it.

So let’s not reinvent history now and act like it was easy for everyone to see he couldn’t play. You and I always got along except for that one subject. You defended Darnold as long and loud as anyone back then until the middle of his third year when you and a lot of others finally came around. 

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11 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

I don't think that's true. It was mutually beneficial for Carr and the Jets to meet this weekend.

1) Jets are perceived top bidder for a vet QB, Carr raises his value with them in on him

2) the report that the Jets were meeting with Carr came out before Rodgers went into darkness. I think this was meant to give Rodgers 1 more thing to think about.

 

It's entirely possible both sides have little interest in one another outside of the benefits I listed above.

My goodness… That’s more stretching than I do before a round of golf when I can’t make it to the driving range beforehand.

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14 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

My goodness… That’s more stretching than I do before a round of golf when I can’t make it to the driving range beforehand.

Is it wrong though? I do think the Jets and Carr should show interest in each other because we are a good team and he is a good QB but Carr wanting to raise his value and us wanting to put pressure on Rodgers and do our due diligence isn't exactly a stretch. 

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7 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Is it wrong though? I do think the Jets and Carr should show interest in each other because we are a good team and he is a good QB but Carr wanting to raise his value and us wanting to put pressure on Rodgers and due our due diligence isn't exactly a stretch. 

I get what you’re saying, but I think it’s more than doing due diligence though.
He’s either their first, or (more likely) second most viable option at QB, and he’s not going to come cheaply or short term if he signs.

I doubt either wastes a weekend without having legit interest in it possibly happening.

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57 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

Yeah, using Darnold as an example of how easy it is? That’s ludicrous Mike. 
You know how much sh*t I took for being the first and loudest guy to say Darnold stunk. Hell, I got banned because a certain mod here got tired of me saying it.

So let’s not reinvent history now and act like it was easy for everyone to see he couldn’t play. You and I always got along except for that one subject. You defended Darnold as long and loud as anyone back then until the middle of his third year when you and a lot of others finally came around. 

It’s easy in hindsight is what I was implying, friend.

hence why I’m off Wilson earlier than the last bust.

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22 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

You might be too attached to this Zach thing and your sources might not be completely honest with you.

The tea leaves are what they are and Zach — absent a turnaround for the ages — most likely doesn’t have a future home with the Jets.  It is only wishful thinking to feel otherwise after witnessing the regression we saw this year and to see him utterly lose the confidence of his teammates who are ready to win now.  

For what it’s worth Boomer has the same exact take, that the Jets want to develop Zach.  They think they have a talented young QB who needs to develop, to grow up

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10 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

If they don’t want more than two years of Carr, they’d have never brought him to NJ this past weekend, plain and simple.

Says who?

  1. Derek Carr signed a 3-year, $121.5 million extension last offseason. It ultimately lasted one year because the Raiders included a window for them to get out of the deal. Most teams do this with contracts unless the player is a clear franchise guy, and even then there's usually an out after the 3rd year of the deal. The Jets don't look at Carr as a franchise caliber QB; if they did they would've signed him already. I think fans look at the situation and consider Carr better than he is because of our history, but the football people don't view it that way. They view him as an average-to-above average starting-caliber QB with some upside who can be for this roster what Jimmy G was for the 2019 San Francisco 49ers roster. They do not want to commit to him long-term, just as the Raiders didn't want to with him and just as the 49ers didn't want to with Garoppolo, but they would leave open the door for the possibility that he simply plays at a level that warrants them keeping him around longer. This has pretty much been the case for the last 6 years of Carr's career. 
  2. Three or more years is a long time in this sport, especially for a guy who  at QB who will take up anywhere from 12-20% of the roster payroll. The best comparable is Jared Goff. I would say he and Derek Carr are similarly tiered QBs, no? When the Lions traded for him and renegotiated his deal, they only gave him two years of security on a 4-year contract. Russell Wilson's deal is essentially a "3-year" deal; look how miserable that looks after just one year. 
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5 minutes ago, football guy said:

Says who?

  1. Derek Carr signed a 3-year, $121.5 million extension last offseason. It ultimately lasted one year because the Raiders included a window for them to get out of the deal. Most teams do this with contracts unless the player is a clear franchise guy, and even then there's usually an out after the 3rd year of the deal. The Jets don't look at Carr as a franchise caliber QB; if they did they would've signed him already. I think fans look at the situation and consider Carr better than he is because of our history, but the football people don't view it that way. They view him as an average-to-above average starting-caliber QB with some upside who can be for this roster what Jimmy G was for the 2019 San Francisco 49ers roster. They do not want to commit to him long-term, just as the Raiders didn't want to with him and just as the 49ers didn't want to with Garoppolo, but they would leave open the door for the possibility that he simply plays at a level that warrants them keeping him around longer. This has pretty much been the case for the last 6 years of Carr's career. 
  2. Three or more years is a long time in this sport, especially for a guy who  at QB who will take up anywhere from 12-20% of the roster payroll. The best comparable is Jared Goff. I would say he and Derek Carr are similarly tiered QBs, no? When the Lions traded for him and renegotiated his deal, they only gave him two years of security on a 4-year contract. Russell Wilson's deal is essentially a "3-year" deal; look how miserable that looks after just one year. 

Says me.

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Just now, Green Ghost said:

Wouldn’t be the first time if I am. I’m just giving my opinion, I don’t have NFL insiders speaking to me in my dreams.

That's fine... I think we should all be comfortable posting opinions. I'm responding because you're coming after me/tagging me stating things as if they're fact. If it's an opinion then state it as an opinion 

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17 minutes ago, football guy said:

That's fine... I think we should all be comfortable posting opinions. I'm responding because you're coming after me/tagging me stating things as if they're fact. If it's an opinion then state it as an opinion 

I don’t remember tagging you here, but if I did that’s kinda what people do when they want someone to know they’re talking about one of their posts, isn’t it?

Maybe you should take your own advice here on stating what’s only your opinion though, no?

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7 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

I don’t remember tagging you here, but if I did that’s kinda what people do when they want someone to know they’re talking about one of their posts, isn’t it?

Maybe you should take your own advice here on stating what’s only your opinion though, no?

I'm very deliberate stating when "I think" or "I hear" something lol 

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20 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

It’s okay to be wrong sometimes, ya know?

Dude, you look ridiculous here, flat out ridiculous. You made a dumb, wrong statement based on emotion, when you got called out you deflected with cherry picked stats, which proved zero.

Why don't you take the emotion out and look at facts. If you want to look at purely YPG as your metric to prove how "easily" a QB managed the offense, and ignore literally every other stat, why don't you at least incorporate YPA, which does not favor your argument at all, and would show that ZW had less attempts but actually slightly more YPA, and if he had more attempts would have matched their YPG.

So I will say to you, its okay to be wrong, you were and continue to be wrong, ya know?

The bottom line is all 3 QB's sucked in this offense, Flacco was worst, followed by ZW and MW was the best, but none were good.

The line was attrocious and hurt every QB, literally and figuratively

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7 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Dude, you look ridiculous here, flat out ridiculous. You made a dumb, wrong statement based on emotion, when you got called out you deflected with cherry picked stats, which proved zero.

Why don't you take the emotion out and look at facts. If you want to look at purely YPG as your metric to prove how "easily" a QB managed the offense, and ignore literally every other stat, why don't you at least incorporate YPA, which does not favor your argument at all, and would show that ZW had less attempts but actually slightly more YPA, and if he had more attempts would have matched their YPG.

So I will say to you, its okay to be wrong, you were and continue to be wrong, ya know?

 

Lol what? my man …if YPG isn’t relative to you in anyway, I’ll be honest, YPA shouldn’t be either, kind of defeats the purpose of you even pushing back, because regardless of YPA, he still had less efficiency throwing past the sticks, which is kind of the entire point of the argument, that he can’t move the sticks better than the others. He barely has more converted 1st downs than the others with more games played. Wilson’s averages are absolutely sh*t/piss poor and you have the gull to approach this conversation the way you are lol.

with that said, nobody was being emotional, it’s really not that deep for me like it seems to be for you, I’ve been on this forum for 10 years, everyone cherry picks stats, it’s about putting an argument around the stats and using it as supporting evidence, i was never calling the stats the end all/be all here. You are making it seem like I am, almost like you are avoiding the clear point i’m trying to make because you’d rather not be wrong. 
 

all good brudda. I see where this is going lol. you have a good one.

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48 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Lol what? my man …if YPG isn’t relative to you in anyway, I’ll be honest, YPA shouldn’t be either, kind of defeats the purpose of you even pushing back, because regardless of YPA, he still had less efficiency throwing past the sticks, which is kind of the entire point of the argument, that he can’t move the sticks better than the others. He barely has more converted 1st downs than the others with more games played. Wilson’s averages are absolutely sh*t/piss poor and you have the gull to approach this conversation the way you are lol.

with that said, nobody was being emotional, it’s really not that deep for me like it seems to be for you, I’ve been on this forum for 10 years, everyone cherry picks stats, it’s about putting an argument around the stats and using it as supporting evidence, i was never calling the stats the end all/be all here. You are making it seem like I am, almost like you are avoiding the clear point i’m trying to make because you’d rather not be wrong. 
 

all good brudda. I see where this is going lol. you have a good one.

LOL, this is what happens when you make completely incorrect statements, no QB had an easy time with this offense this season, which was your claim, and its wrong. I don't think YPA is a good metric by itself, nor is YPG, you have to look at all the metrics, of which on the whole our QB play including but not limited to ZW was atrocious. And clearly and directly disputed your point which was flat our wrong. you have a good one too

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1 minute ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

LOL, this is what happens when you make completely incorrect statements, no QB had an easy time with this offense this season, which was your claim,

My claim was the other 3 moved the ball easier (thus operated the offense easier) whether I worded it weirdly in the first post or not, (going back, I see a bit of the confusion) I corrected what I meant and how I felt in the following post. the rest is a lack of reading comprehension.

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2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

My claim was the other 3 moved the ball easier (thus operated the offense easier) whether I worded it weirdly in the first post or not, (going back, I see a bit of the confusion) I corrected what I meant and how I felt in the following post. the rest is a lack of reading comprehension.

there is no lack of reading comprehension here, your point is still wrong, no matter how you word it. <60% completion and <1 TD/Int ratio and poor QBR is not operating the offense easily, which was your claim. If you want to say the others had more YPG, that would be accurate, but nobody operated this offense well this year at the QB position outside of the Bears game, which was the worst or among the worst defenses in football with nothing to play for without their starting QB. Your premise was all is fine without ZW, its not true.

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13 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Nope, not stuck at all, you were wrong, just admit it and we can move on

Gonna put it to you like this one more time, read it slower this time, so there’s no confusion. 
 

if you have to zero in on the wording of something and you stick to that shtick the entire debate even after it was corrected, you, my friend, have already lost.

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17 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Gonna put it to you like this one more time, read it slower this time, so there’s no confusion. 
 

if you have to zero in on the wording of something and you stick to that shtick the entire debate even after it was corrected, you, my friend, have already lost.

Im not zero'ing in on anything, I know what you were trying to say, no matter how you word it, you were wrong

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Been lurking here for a while, but i gotta tell yall... 

 

@football guy posts here are the best content we have ever had here. I check this site JUST to read what he is posting. It's ridiculous how many people here are adversarial re: his input. 

 

I have watched this all unfold over the last few months and most of everything FG says comes to fruition thru the media in different shapes and sizes, within 1-3 weeks.  I have listened to morons with huge platforms talk about stuff that are incorrect about. There is no accountability in the world anymore. IF you guys are too biased/emotional to see how the Jets operate given HOW MUCH ACCESS we have to the players, the press conferences nowadays thats on you.

 

not that i means much to you all, but i will never go back to reading this drivel now (media, Forums, comments sections (PUKE)) Now that i have been spoiled by info, from an intelligent and articulate person, who obv has sources and puts in ALOT of time to keep us informed. You do realize he is providing more detailed info on our jets than ANY other beat writer or source out there... 

 

Not here to blow the guy, just to offer perspective to you all SOOOO caught up in you little ego arguments. Just enjoy the access you silly gooses. Geese's. 

 

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On 2/21/2023 at 11:59 AM, football guy said:

And yet, people in the NFL still believe those things about Darnold. Hell Frank Reich, who was one of the lead voices trying to bring Derek Carr to IND a few years ago, is willing to potentially move forward with Darnold instead despite how the first 5 years of his career has gone. What does that tell you?

You want to be ignorant and believe your own little prism of thought is correct than that's on you. I choose to be more objective 

 

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On 2/22/2023 at 3:52 PM, MARTIN said:

Been lurking here for a while, but i gotta tell yall... 

 

@football guy posts here are the best content we have ever had here. I check this site JUST to read what he is posting. It's ridiculous how many people here are adversarial re: his input. 

 

I have watched this all unfold over the last few months and most of everything FG says comes to fruition thru the media in different shapes and sizes, within 1-3 weeks.  I have listened to morons with huge platforms talk about stuff that are incorrect about. There is no accountability in the world anymore. IF you guys are too biased/emotional to see how the Jets operate given HOW MUCH ACCESS we have to the players, the press conferences nowadays thats on you.

 

not that i means much to you all, but i will never go back to reading this drivel now (media, Forums, comments sections (PUKE)) Now that i have been spoiled by info, from an intelligent and articulate person, who obv has sources and puts in ALOT of time to keep us informed. You do realize he is providing more detailed info on our jets than ANY other beat writer or source out there... 

 

Not here to blow the guy, just to offer perspective to you all SOOOO caught up in you little ego arguments. Just enjoy the access you silly gooses. Geese's. 

 

@JiF4Lamar

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Been lurking here for a while, but i gotta tell yall... 
 
[mention=33820]football guy[/mention] posts here are the best content we have ever had here. I check this site JUST to read what he is posting. It's ridiculous how many people here are adversarial re: his input. 
 
I have watched this all unfold over the last few months and most of everything FG says comes to fruition thru the media in different shapes and sizes, within 1-3 weeks.  I have listened to morons with huge platforms talk about stuff that are incorrect about. There is no accountability in the world anymore. IF you guys are too biased/emotional to see how the Jets operate given HOW MUCH ACCESS we have to the players, the press conferences nowadays thats on you.
 
not that i means much to you all, but i will never go back to reading this drivel now (media, Forums, comments sections (PUKE)) Now that i have been spoiled by info, from an intelligent and articulate person, who obv has sources and puts in ALOT of time to keep us informed. You do realize he is providing more detailed info on our jets than ANY other beat writer or source out there... 
 
Not here to blow the guy, just to offer perspective to you all SOOOO caught up in you little ego arguments. Just enjoy the access you silly gooses. Geese's. 
 
Def top10 poster

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

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On 2/21/2023 at 10:22 AM, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I’m a bit confused here.  The Jets have him on a 4 year contract and would need to exercise his 5th year after this upcoming season (year 3) when they will start a veteran QB.

Are you suggesting the Jets are leaning toward picking up year 5 after the upcoming season in which Wilson isn’t expected to start?

Could this happen?  Possibly if they believe in a year from now that Wilson truly has solved his problems (Yips, mechanics, processing, etc..) and they don’t need live action to prove it.

That would seem to be a big gamble because it’s the live rounds that Wilson has struggled most with.

I don’t know man.  It would seem A LOT would have to happen to change the organization’s current assessment of him ABSENT live rounds.

I think they are in salvage mode here to improve him to a point where he can surprise in Preseason 2023 and then be traded.

There's an in-between they may be thinking, which is that next year as the QB2 he may get some of that live action for some or half the season (or more, if Rodgers hangs it up after just 1 season here). But then, they'd have to commit to him for year 5 before that season.

I think with 1 season on the same roster as Rodgers they'd pick his brain to see if he thinks Wilson is just always likely to be the panicky overwhelmed bundle of nerves with a strong arm & quick release. Like some used to say...Jamarcus Russell could throw it through a brick wall. If he could hit it. 

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On 2/21/2023 at 10:59 AM, football guy said:

finding a young "franchise" QB, and starting a young QB day 1 in our market does not work.

100%

This toxic fan base is real trouble for developing a QB.  

I must say it's a bit frustrating that JD didn't notice this before he took Wilson.  It's not like he wasn't aware of the team's history.

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