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Edsen JR- Zach & Mimsie for Sutton Place


hmhertz

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40 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

100%

This toxic fan base is real trouble for developing a QB.  

I must say it's a bit frustrating that JD didn't notice this before he took Wilson.  It's not like he wasn't aware of the team's history.

Is there a fan base any more toxic than Philly?  Didn't stop the development of Jalen Hurts ..

Is there pressure in the NY/NJ market?  Absolutely.  I've watched Zach's games, even went to a couple and the fans at the stadium have been pretty patient with the booing and other things that can unhinge a young QB.  Not saying there hasn't been any or that it didn't reach a boiling point later this year, but that's my observation at least.

Sports radio and Social Media -- a young guy like him who is having troubles should stay off it.  An example many of us in life should likely follow.

 

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2 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Is there a fan base any more toxic than Philly?  Didn't stop the development of Jalen Hurts ..

Is there pressure in the NY/NJ market?  Absolutely.  I've watched Zach's games, even went to a couple and the fans at the stadium have been pretty patient with the booing and other things that can unhinge a young QB.  Not saying there hasn't been any or that it didn't reach a boiling point later this year, but that's my observation at least.

Sports radio and Social Media -- a young guy like him who is having troubles should stay off it.  An example many of us in life should likely follow.

 

The NY Jets fan base is the most toxic in all of sports.  I don't think there's a close second.

Philly roots for their players the succeed.   

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6 minutes ago, Ron Rico said:

Philly fans booed drafting Donovan McNabb.

Jet fans have booed multiple first round picks.  Whether he worked out or not isn't the point.

Surely, go back and look at this board, twitter and any other platform that has Jet fans - the attacks on Zach Wilson - pre and post draft were disgraceful.  They weren't just about his talent but attacked him personally, his family, his religion and much more...

 

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On 2/21/2023 at 9:45 AM, football guy said:

Ben Albright is floating this because Sean Payton is a believer in Zach's talent. If they were to make this trade, the Broncos would be acquiring Zach to give Payton a prospect to sit and develop behind a similar style QB in Russell Wilson for 1-2 years, then turn to after potentially moving on from RW. 

Breaking News: Joe Douglas/Robert Saleh don't want to give up on Zach for the same reasons why Sean Payton would want him; they want to sit and develop him behind an established starter - ideally for at least a year - and see if they can unlock him. 

 

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On 2/22/2023 at 3:52 PM, MARTIN said:

Been lurking here for a while, but i gotta tell yall... 

 

@football guy posts here are the best content we have ever had here. I check this site JUST to read what he is posting. It's ridiculous how many people here are adversarial re: his input. 

 

I have watched this all unfold over the last few months and most of everything FG says comes to fruition thru the media in different shapes and sizes, within 1-3 weeks.  I have listened to morons with huge platforms talk about stuff that are incorrect about. There is no accountability in the world anymore. IF you guys are too biased/emotional to see how the Jets operate given HOW MUCH ACCESS we have to the players, the press conferences nowadays thats on you.

 

not that i means much to you all, but i will never go back to reading this drivel now (media, Forums, comments sections (PUKE)) Now that i have been spoiled by info, from an intelligent and articulate person, who obv has sources and puts in ALOT of time to keep us informed. You do realize he is providing more detailed info on our jets than ANY other beat writer or source out there... 

 

Not here to blow the guy, just to offer perspective to you all SOOOO caught up in you little ego arguments. Just enjoy the access you silly gooses. Geese's. 

 

Spot on!

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On 2/21/2023 at 10:00 AM, football guy said:

That's the thing: I don't think they have any desires to commit more than 2 years to Carr. It's not solely because of Zach, more so because they likely don't see Carr as a long-term elite starting QB who can lift the team around him in 2025, 2026, 2027... they think Zach has the talent to be that kind of player, but if he doesn't improve they'll look to take another QB and develop him behind Carr for a year then likely move on unless Carr (or whoever else they add) played at a level that convinces them to ditch that plan and move forward with the veteran QB

Arm talent and scrambling ability is the only trait that Zach has an advantage. And the scrambling is largely due to being 10 years younger. How can the Jets possibly see any evidence supporting the fact that Zach can take the Jets further than Carr?

Nothing in college or in the pros shows that. For every tight window, off platform throw Zach has made I’m certain I could find one equally impressive from Carr in his first 2 years starting. There is no reasonable expectation, other than JD’s pride, that makes Zach a worthwhile reclamation project at this stage in his Jet career and the team’s Win Now approach to the Qb position. This applies to a Carr contract (3+ years) only. Same applies to JG

AR or Tannehill trade would be the two scenarios where keeping Zach COULD be an acceptable plan C

 

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4 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

Arm talent and scrambling ability is the only trait that Zach has an advantage. And the scrambling is largely due to being 10 years younger. How can the Jets possibly see any evidence supporting the fact that Zach can take the Jets further than Carr?

Nothing in college or in the pros shows that. For every tight window, off platform throw Zach has made I’m certain I could find one equally impressive from Carr in his first 2 years starting. There is no reasonable expectation, other than JD’s pride, that makes Zach a worthwhile reclamation project at this stage in his Jet career and the team’s Win Now approach to the Qb position. This applies to a Carr contract (3+ years) only. Same applies to JG

AR or Tannehill trade would be the two scenarios where keeping Zach COULD be an acceptable plan C

 

Everyone in the league outside of the Saints looks at Carr as a bridge QB, Jets included. In many ways Zach and Derek are very similar in terms of their athleticism, build, arm talent, etc. but anyone in the league would tell you from a sheer talent perspective, Zach has a superior arm, superior athleticism, and most important has the kind of outside of structure playmaking ability. I do understand that seeing is believing in many ways so I'm not going to fault you for having that opinion, but I don't think that's a controversial argument either. What makes Carr the much better player is that he has figured out some level of consistency. The ideal Zach Wilson is one that plays a lot more like Derek but with more playmaking and less turnovers... basically what Aaron Rodgers has become with age. 

When you get past all the fluff, they think/hope he can be a game manager to help this team win now, which would help stabilize the organization and keep this administration intact for the foreseeable future. The good news with Carr is that if he were to tap into his talent and outperform expectations, he could be good enough to get them over the finish line and potentially be here for far longer than 1-2 years. More likely, they would either monitor what happens with Zach or draft his replacement next year, develop them, then move forward with the younger option after trading Carr after 2 seasons. 

As far as Zach goes, as I alluded to earlier so many fans undersell just how talented Zach is because we haven't consistently seen it. I don't blame them. But what people see behind the scenes and what people know about him based on seeing him every day is that he has elite tools. He didn't test at the combine but had he done so, he would've put up top notch athletic numbers. His arm is gold. Listen to what people are saying about Anthony Richardson - "if a team just takes the time to improve his footwork, timing, and short-to-intermediate accuracy this guy is going to be a star" - those are the same feelings the Jets have about Zach. The Jets can easily get a 2nd round pick for him if they wanted to trade him, but again, the Jets feel if they can take it easy with him, develop him, and see how he progresses he can return to square one and become a franchise QB. I'm not suggesting that is likely, but its what they think if all goes right. They saw a truly elite player in his first offseason and they think that all the things that happened with the coaching staff really severely impacted his development. Even if he can't be reset, the worst case scenario is they go after one of the many talented QBs in next years draft and correctly develop them the way they failed to do with Zach, Sam, and Geno... sit them down for a year or 2, then start them. Basically Derek would be treated like Alex Smith. 

 

By the way, none of this is a shock to Derek. The Jets and Panthers have been transparent with him in the sense that they will develop QBs behind him if it were to work out. He knows that. The question is whether he's ready to bet on himself and force those teams to change their minds 1-2 years from now, or if he would rather go play for a team like the Saints who are going to commit to him for 3+ years guaranteed. 

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29 minutes ago, football guy said:

 The question is whether he's ready to bet on himself and force those teams to change their minds 1-2 years from now, or if he would rather go play for a team like the Saints who are going to commit to him for 3+ years guaranteed. 

I have no inside knowledge and the following statement is pure conjecture and my own opinion but it does seem like if Carr wanted be a Saint....he would have signed already.

It also seems that if Carolina were legitimately interested in Carr they would have brought him in for a visit at their facility, not just the convenience of the combine.

Are they Jets Carr's preferred spot and knows that they're just waiting for the Rodgers domino to fall?

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20 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I have no inside knowledge and the following statement is pure conjecture and my own opinion but it does seem like if Carr wanted be a Saint....he would have signed already.

It also seems that if Carolina were legitimately interested in Carr they would have brought him in for a visit at their facility, not just the convenience of the combine.

Are they Jets Carr's preferred spot and knows that they're just waiting for the Rodgers domino to fall?

The problem with the Saints comes down to some insecurities surrounding the coaching staff, front office, ownership. They have a talented roster and a good GM, but all it takes is one lackluster season for them to start over with the coaching staff. Historically Carr (and most QBs for that matter) don't fare well in their first years playing in a new system. There's no preexisting relationship there and its not like Carmichael/Curry have the level of clout that some of the coaches we or the Panthers have to offer. Dennis Allen played a part in drafting him so clearly they got to know each other well but they wound up 0-4 in their only games together. The cap situation is messy and while they continue to find ways to get out of hell, it has prevented them from making some marquee additions/re-signings (see Armstead, Williams, Hendrickson last 2 seasons). To complicate matters more, Gayle Benson is not an owner who pushes the needle. Remember, Sean Payton wanted out of there for a reason; have to at least wonder if there are problems brewing there that haven't necessary reached the surface yet, so how can you really blame Carr for being hesitant? At the same time, he may look at it and say "I'm so good that I'm going to be the clue that makes this team work; I'm going to win with the talent there in a great city that I can call home, and I will have a say in how things operate in New Orleans." 

Or, he can decide to sign with a team like the Jets, Panthers, and maybe others if he decides to say screw long-term commitments, let me go to the best team available, prove myself on a 1-2 year commitment, and parlay that into a massive contract and long-term commitment in that city or elsewhere. Carr knows he has to wait for the Rodgers saga come to a close before any decision is made, but my sense is that he realizes the Jets are probably the best team for the short-term because they will pay him the money that Carolina may not, they have the most talented team, there's familiarity on the staff, and there's more of a chance to parlay a 1-2 year tryout into a long-term contract. If Carolina were to sign him (I don't think they will), they would be doing so while also likely drafting a QB and probably won't feel inclined to outbid anyone because they trust Sam Darnold in that bridge-QB-with-upside role and know they can re-sign him at reasonable money. Then again, maybe Carr says screw it that's where I want to be. Who knows. 

 

End of the day Carr is a productive QB the way Andy Dalton was. Carr is better than Dalton, but Carr's issue is that he's not a natural game manager. He's far more consistent than Zach Wilson and many others around the league at this point and the teams/infrastructure around him left far more to be desired hence why one can easily envision him as someone who can break out in the right situation. However, his own inconsistencies, playing style, and decision-making is a contributing factor into why the Raiders never got over the hump. As much as people point to the defense and say "look at how bad it was", Derek played a part in putting that defense in awful positions with untimely turnovers on their end of the field and a lot of stretches of quick 3-and-outs. Maybe he's been humbled and understands that he needs to embrace being more of a game manager who can weave in some of the aggressive plays the way Aaron Rodgers evolved from 2019 to 2020-21 in order to "unlock" his potential, but we don't know if that will happen yet and it would be foolish for teams to commit to him long-term without knowing. 

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