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Not as many teams in on Lamar as expected...many already bowing out


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35 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

None of those teams are beholden to offering a fully guaranteed deal. Atlanta could have whipped up an offer sheet with Kyler Murray money and submitted it for consideration if they so chose. The fact that each of these teams is saying “nope, no, no interest thanks, nope” as their initial salvo tells you that there’s a concerted effort to make an example out of Lamar specifically. What these owners are doing colluding to protect Mike Brown, who has to sign Joe Burrow, and Dean Spanos, who has to sign Herbert. It’s unlikely either of those guys can afford to put $300 mil into escrow. 

Burrow is going to literally pull the pants down on the entire league when its his turn.  If they try and play this game with him, of all these dudes, he's the one dude w/ the voice, respect, command and well you know, that will expose this disgusting collusion nonsense.  If there is any sport that should be giving out guaranteed contracts as practice, it's the stupid ******* league who lets these players go brain dead after their career w/ no remorse.  

Him and Lamar should start taking w/ the Rock now and get a sexy contract w/ the XFL.  

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51 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

None of those teams are beholden to offering a fully guaranteed deal. Atlanta could have whipped up an offer sheet with Kyler Murray money and submitted it for consideration if they so chose. The fact that each of these teams is saying “nope, no, no interest thanks, nope” as their initial salvo tells you that there’s a concerted effort to make an example out of Lamar specifically. What these owners are doing colluding to protect Mike Brown, who has to sign Joe Burrow, and Dean Spanos, who has to sign Herbert. It’s unlikely either of those guys can afford to put $300 mil into escrow. 

No, simply not true as there is also plenty of information as to what Baltimore has already offered.  They can't throw out an initial salvo if they know they're already unwilling to beat the current offer on the table - which is substantial...AND fork over two first round picks.  

It's been less than 24 hour and the collusionist are out in force.  Everyone relax with the conspiracy's and see how it plays out.  

I'll ask this question again - Why is there only one team in on all time great Aaron Rodgers? Is it collusion?

Or are you suggesting each of these teams make an offer they KNOW will be rejected just to appease the collusionist?

 

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48 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

None of those teams are beholden to offering a fully guaranteed deal. Atlanta could have whipped up an offer sheet with Kyler Murray money and submitted it for consideration if they so chose. The fact that each of these teams is saying “nope, no, no interest thanks, nope” as their initial salvo tells you that there’s a concerted effort to make an example out of Lamar specifically. What these owners are doing colluding to protect Mike Brown, who has to sign Joe Burrow, and Dean Spanos, who has to sign Herbert. It’s unlikely either of those guys can afford to put $300 mil into escrow. 

When baseball did this, at least they did a little bit of a dog and pony show, where they would trot a couple of teams out to feign interest. here, crickets.

Odd, with football about to be flush with so much more Google money.

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5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

No, simply not true as there is also plenty of information as to what Baltimore has already offered.  They can't throw out an initial salvo if they know they're already unwilling to beat the current offer on the table - which is substantial...AND fork over two first round picks.  

It's been less than 24 hour and the collusionist are out in force.  Everyone relax and the conspiracy's and see how it plays out.  

I'll ask this question again - Why is there only one team in on all time great Aaron Rodgers? Is it collusion?

Or are you suggesting each of these teams make an offer they KNOW will be rejected just to appease the collusionist?

 

Well, that’s the thing. We don’t know that Aaron Rodgers only has one suitor because Rodgers isn’t talking to the media. We’ll see in the coming days if anyone else comes for him. With Lamar, these league-wide pronouncements of “NOPE” came five minutes after he hit free agency. 

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1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said:

When baseball did this, at least they did a little bit of a dog and pony show, where they would trot a couple of teams out to feign interest. here, crickets.

Odd, with football about to be flush with so much more Google money.

I’d guess Lamar is hoping there’s a George Steinbrenner in the bunch who doesn’t care about placating the other owners, and maybe someone like Tepper comes through in a few days, but it doesn’t sound like it. 

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10 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

Burrow is going to literally pull the pants down on the entire league when its his turn.  If they try and play this game with him, of all these dudes, he's the one dude w/ the voice, respect, command and well you know, that will expose this disgusting collusion nonsense.  If there is any sport that should be giving out guaranteed contracts as practice, it's the stupid ******* league who lets these players go brain dead after their career w/ no remorse.  

Him and Lamar should start taking w/ the Rock now and get a sexy contract w/ the XFL.  

It’d be such a bad look for the league if Burrow turns around and gets a guaranteed deal. He won’t, because the Bengals are poor, but my god the headlines

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2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’d guess Lamar is hoping there’s a George Steinbrenner in the bunch who doesn’t care about placating the other owners, and maybe someone like Tepper comes through in a few days, but it doesn’t sound like it. 

Even Steinbrenner was involved with the collusion in '85 and '86. Pulled a large deal off the table for Carlton Fisk.

 

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2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Well, that’s the thing. We don’t know that Aaron Rodgers only has one suitor because Rodgers isn’t talking to the media. We’ll see in the coming days if anyone else comes for him. With Lamar, these league-wide pronouncements of “NOPE” came five minutes after he hit free agency. 

This just isn't true.  We've seen multiple teams say they're not interested in Rodgers - and now we're hearing how the Jets are lowballing the Packers.  Not only is it NOT going to cost 2 1st round picks, as initially reported, but also GB taking on some of his contract.  There was no market for Rodgers other than Woody - because it's a highly risky deal - that only Woody Johnson wanted to pursue.  Woody is doing what he thinks is best for his organization.  Just like Cleveland did what they think is best for theirs.

I suspect in some alternate world where the trade comp would go from two 1's to a 2nd and a conditional third AND the price would drop as Balt would cover some of the salary there might be more interest - as there was in Rodgers.  It sure does seem like if GB decided to say - two 1's and take the full cap hit - Rodgers would stuck in GB.

Moroever, this tag didn't come out of nowhere - this has been discussed and known for weeks.  Miami, Altanta, Carolina etc - all had plenty of time to due their DD, understand the contract necessary and clearly decided it's too much.  This didn't come out of nowhere.

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7 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

When baseball did this, at least they did a little bit of a dog and pony show, where they would trot a couple of teams out to feign interest. here, crickets.

Odd, with football about to be flush with so much more Google money.

Racing to be the first in line to say you're not interested in a 26 year former MVP who is younger than Joe Burrow, is unprecedented territory.  They're being blatant about it and every QB in the NFL who has a deal coming up on the horizon is paying attention, taking notes and w/out a shadow of a doubt, supports Lamar Jackson right now.  It wouldnt shock me if all these dudes wont even negotiate their next contract until this is settled. 

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10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’d be such a bad look for the league if Burrow turns around and gets a guaranteed deal. He won’t, because the Bengals are poor, but my god the headlines

Because it will be spun as a racial issue when it is likely an actual talent issue.  No team, owner, or fan, picks Lamar over Burrow.

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7 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

Racing to be the first in line to say you're not interested in a 26 year former MVP who is younger than Joe Burrow, is unprecedented territory.  They're being blatant about it and every QB in the NFL who has a deal coming up on the horizon is paying attention, taking notes and w/out a shadow of a doubt, supports Lamar Jackson right now.  It wouldnt shock me if all these dudes wont even negotiate their next contract until this is settled. 

Stop.  Daniel Jones just got $40mm a year for crying out loud.  No one is trying to slow down anything.

They've had weeks to mull this decision and have either committed to their current QB or targeted in on some other option.   I suspect if Jackson had an agent this wouldn't be happening as they would have explained to him he would be setting himself up for embarrassment.  They would have spoken with each team - they would have understood the market wasn't there for him at that price - and this would have been avoided.  He probably takes the $200mm from Baltimore and talking heads would be saying how great a deal for him it was.

Just because he's asking for $250mm guaranteed doesn't mean he should get it...and just because no team in the league doesn't think he's worth it doesn't mean it's collusion.  

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6 minutes ago, usanyj said:

Because it will be spun as a racial issue when it is likely an actual talent issue.  No team, owner, or fan, picks Lamar over Burrow.

Can you list the QB's in the history of the NFL that won an MVP at 23 years old? 

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Just now, FidelioJet said:

Stop.  Daniel Jones just got $40mm a year for crying out loud.  No one is trying to slow down anything.

They've had weeks to mull this decision and have either committed to their current QB or targeted in on some other option.   I suspect if Jackson had an agent this wouldn't be happening as they would have explained to him he would be setting himself up for embarrassment.  They would have spoken with each team - they would have understood the market wasn't there for him at that price - and this would have been avoided.  He probably takes the $200mm from Baltimore and talking heads would be saying how great a deal for him it was.

Just because he's asking for $250mm guaranteed doesn't mean he should get it...and just because no team in the league doesn't think he's worth it doesn't mean it's collusion.  

If you're not smart enough to see what's going on here, that's on you but dont tell me to stop calling out the blatantly obvious because you want to close your eyes and plug your ears and believe this is all on the up and up.  And to sit here and act like you're the authority on who decides what is a great deal for Lamar Jackson or not, is next level absurdity. 

 

 

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He has the same amount of playoff wins as Baker Mayfield.
... NFL Defenses figured out how to mitigate the college offense based around Lamar.. and it largely meant .. let just Lamar try to beat us ..he's their entire offense ... Which resulted in him getting injured and the team only being able to go so far.

Ravens are aware of this.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk


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3 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

If you're not smart enough to see what's going on here, that's on you but dont tell me to stop calling out the blatantly obvious because you want to close your eyes and plug your ears and believe this is all on the up and up.  And to sit here and act like you're the authority on who decides what is a great deal for Lamar Jackson or not, is next level absurdity. 

 

 

You can call me whatever you want - but to say it's the NFL trying to get control of QB's salaries - is just been unproven by the actual data.  When guys like Daniel Jones and Geno Smith are getting $100+ in guarantees - no one is slowing down anything.

There is already a very good offer on the table for Jackson.  Baltimore wants to keep him and made an aggressive offer, not beating that offer and giving up two 1's for it - is a reasonable position to take.

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3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You can call me whatever you want - but to say it's the NFL trying to get control of QB's salaries - is just been unproven by the actual data.  When guys like Daniel Jones and Geno Smith are getting $100+ in guarantees - no one is slowing down anything.

There is already a very good offer on the table for Jackson.  Baltimore wants to keep him and made an aggressive offer, not beating that offer and giving up two 1's for it - is a reasonable position to take.

You're putting Baker Mayfield, Daniel Jones and Geno Smith in the Lamar tier of QB's.

stop responding to me, please. 

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

None of those teams are beholden to offering a fully guaranteed deal. Atlanta could have whipped up an offer sheet with Kyler Murray money and submitted it for consideration if they so chose. The fact that each of these teams is saying “nope, no, no interest thanks, nope” as their initial salvo tells you that there’s a concerted effort to make an example out of Lamar specifically. What these owners are doing colluding to protect Mike Brown, who has to sign Joe Burrow, and Dean Spanos, who has to sign Herbert. It’s unlikely either of those guys can afford to put $300 mil into escrow. 

Joe Burrow’s next deal will be fully guaranteed, whether it’s a multi-year deal or the exclusive tag a couple years in a row first. Because if he hits the market in any fashion, the bidding war will make the Deshaun pursuit look like Mike White’s. 
 
I do not disagree that the owners hate Watson’s contract, and don’t want to see another one, but that’s all over now. The issue for Lamar isn’t his race or the fact that he’s demanding the money (if Watson deserves it, so does he, but the problem is that Watson didn’t deserve it!), the problem is that he’s not a plug & play QB. You need to design your offense around him and -lately- hope he remains healthy doing what makes him so special because he’s missed the final month of the last two seasons. If he had developed into a pocket passer by now, it would be a different story, but that hasn’t been part of his development, and his playing style is likely to lead to a career more along a RB’s trajectory than a QB’s. 
 
The fact that he is demanding a fully guaranteed contract is something of a problem, though, because of his unwillingness to back off that stance. He needs an agent because he does not have the business sense to properly handle his own affairs. He’s putting pride and emotion ahead of reality, and it’s not surprising that that emerges as yet another red flag. The Ravens will look at any offer sheet he signs, but might just be happy to take the picks and let him go at this point. Lamar doesn’t seem to realize how little leverage for his position he has. 

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1 hour ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

If Lamar Jackson is a bum what does that make Wilson?

No one is talking about Wilson. If you need to, why don’t you pm one of your other user names and have a private conversation? 

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Just now, JiF4Lamar said:

You're putting Daniel Jones and Geno Smith in the Lamar tier of QB's.

Go away.

No, exactly the opposite - and you know what I meant.  Giving mediocre QB's $100 guaranteed is downright silly.  The QB market is not being slowed - it's expanding.

There's already $250mm offer on the table for Jackson with over $130mm in guarantees (a full 33% increase over mediocre)  He didn't want it.  As of now, no one wants to aggressively beat that AND give up 1 first round picks.   

This is a very reasonable position.  

I get you don't agree with Jackson's worth - but to jump to collusion about 18 hours into the situation seems aggressive to me.  That's all.  

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Nobody likes the Jets anyway. Offer Lamar the fully guaranteed deal, give up the two first round picks, and ask for forgiveness later. Even if it’s risky from a medical and contract standpoint, it’s the clearest path to a long-term solution at QB by a wide enough margin that I think the dice roll is the right move in that scenario.

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1 hour ago, JiF4Lamar said:

Burrow is going to literally pull the pants down on the entire league when its his turn.  If they try and play this game with him, of all these dudes, he's the one dude w/ the voice, respect, command and well you know, that will expose this disgusting collusion nonsense.  If there is any sport that should be giving out guaranteed contracts as practice, it's the stupid ******* league who lets these players go brain dead after their career w/ no remorse.  

Him and Lamar should start taking w/ the Rock now and get a sexy contract w/ the XFL.  

the total salary of ALL the players in the XFL isn't equal to 1 year of Burrow or Lamar.

don't be silly

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11 minutes ago, slats said:

Joe Burrow’s next deal will be fully guaranteed, whether it’s a multi-year deal or the exclusive tag a couple years in a row first. Because if he hits the market in any fashion, the bidding war will make the Deshaun pursuit look like Mike White’s. 
 
I do not disagree that the owners hate Watson’s contract, and don’t want to see another one, but that’s all over now. The issue for Lamar isn’t his race or the fact that he’s demanding the money (if Watson deserves it, so does he, but the problem is that Watson didn’t deserve it!), the problem is that he’s not a plug & play QB. You need to design your offense around him and -lately- hope he remains healthy doing what makes him so special because he’s missed the final month of the last two seasons. If he had developed into a pocket passer by now, it would be a different story, but that hasn’t been part of his development, and his playing style is likely to lead to a career more along a RB’s trajectory than a QB’s. 
 
The fact that he is demanding a fully guaranteed contract is something of a problem, though, because of his unwillingness to back off that stance. He needs an agent because he does not have the business sense to properly handle his own affairs. He’s putting pride and emotion ahead of reality, and it’s not surprising that that emerges as yet another red flag. The Ravens will look at any offer sheet he signs, but might just be happy to take the picks and let him go at this point. Lamar doesn’t seem to realize how little leverage for his position he has. 

Pretty spot on.

I like Lamar but really wish he would get a professional agent. Funny I say that because fundamentally I respect the fact that he is doing this himself, but it is virtually impossible to do in professional sports.

Looking from the side, I think Lamar suffers from a stereotype of running QB who might not be the best pocket passer (he has shown this ability at times) so therefor will end up like many of his predecessors. Then add in the risk of injury due to his style and he becomes a more risky option that Watson etc.

He really needs a team to navigate those issues for him and get him the best deal possible. Part of that is he also needs to understand the landscape himself and realize some concessions he has to make.

He can get a very good deal - he just needs to be a bit more flexable and get the proper guidance.

Other QB's will certainly get better more lucrative deals whether it is because their style is more suited to the NFL play, they are less risky due to play style or yes I am willing to say the stereotype that still might exist with some owners of a black QB being able to lead a team. 

I really do think most of that thinking is gone from the NFL, but I am not blind to think it is 100%.

Lamar has to let that go and get the right people for him.  

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59 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’d be such a bad look for the league if Burrow turns around and gets a guaranteed deal. He won’t, because the Bengals are poor, but my god the headlines

why such a bad look?  Isn't the only person to get a full 5 year guarantee a minority player?  or is it something else you are focused on?

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6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

They haven’t given Tua his extension, either, so all this talk about how they’re all in on him is a transparent lie. I’m not sure Rodgers fits that offense better than Lamar—it requires some athleticism and a willingness to throw over the middle a lot. Rodgers can absolutely run it, but so can Lamar. 

We’ll see

they are moving pretty slowly if they really want Lamar, IMO 

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On the one hand:

Did they all “announce” it, or were they responding to being asked? It’s not the same thing.

Plus they can’t just offer the same contract Baltimore offered, since Baltimore world match it, and then they have to admit to their fans whomever they end up - which is the likely outcome - with was merely plan B at the franchise-defining position.

On the other hand:

It won’t necessarily take a pair of 1s to get him. That can be and has been negotiated down plenty of times. Maybe not in this instance, because Lamar Jackson isn’t Matt Cassell, but odds seem low that all these teams already called Baltimore to find out first before publicly bowing out. 

While I’ve little doubt none of this group wants to be the one to entrench a new baseline for all league contracts - in their own individual future interests, not just their collective interests as a group - but it’s also possible that each team individually has no interest in fully guaranteeing Jackson some $250MM, and therefore having to escrow that extra $100MM+, on top of deals they already escrow. Plenty of fans (who care 0.0% about what a billionaire has to escrow) also don’t want their teams to guarantee Jackson so much, plus pay two 1sts for the privilege. It’s one thing if that’s what a select few get, but it quickly becomes the norm. Mahomes broke the mold on QB pay; instead of teams saying whoa only he gets that range, and he had to lock himself in for a decade to get it, instead the annual rate was quickly matched and exceeded without locking the next players in for nearly as long.

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9 hours ago, AFJF said:

The Ravens don't think he's worth the money he's asking for, but it's collusion because other teams don't think he's worth what he asking for in addition to two first-round picks?  Make it make sense.

Exactly.

I've been trying to make this point in a sooo much long winded way.  Well said.

 

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I’m of two minds on it.

I’m in favor of the NFL joining other major sports in guaranteeing player contracts (at least having them all guaranteed for injury anyway, as it’s the one with the most devastating long term effects and fast career ending injuries).

However there would need to be a safety net to get around it (e.g. a luxury tax that can be dipped into IF [read: WHEN] an all-guaranteed mega-money player now sucks horribly or is just too injured to play or be effective; in this rough sport it’d be too easy to sink multiple franchises not just for the year but for 4-5 years for injury reasons beyond anyone’s control, and that’s not good for the league).

An in-between is like Cousins territory, where it was all guaranteed but just for a few years, so the team doesn’t get any long term advantages (e.g. the Mahomes contract already is now below market, and it’ll seem like an outright bargain after another few more years of cap ceiling growth, plus very soon will be only at the team’s pleasure if he gets so badly injured).

Maybe there are other ways of being around that via having insurance policies pay up for players injured for the long term, and credit that against the caps for such affected teams so they can still spend to stay competitive. In that instance someone like Jackson, whose injury risk is undoubtedly higher, could get an all-guaranteed deal without the franchise tying the team’s fate for upwards of 5 years on this one player maintaining excellent health for 5 years (still more so if a pair of 1s is part of the price tag).

I don’t know how that’d work in terms of details, or if it’s at all even workable, but surely there has to be something beyond what they’re doing now. Maybe insurance becomes mandatory but where those premiums come off the salary cap (treat like a rookie pool amount they have to leave open, but for the whole season). Then a player can lock in for longer without the tail end having no guarantees. Problem is those policies are surely very customized for different players and risks, so it’d be impossible for gobs of deals to get done quickly like they do - and like they need to - when FA starts for everyone at the same time.

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1 minute ago, Trotter said:

Looking from the side, I think Lamar suffers from a stereotype of running QB who might not be the best pocket passer (he has shown this ability at times) so therefor will end up like many of his predecessors. Then add in the risk of injury due to his style and he becomes a more risky option that Watson etc.

I don’t know if Lamar would’ve developed as well under any other coaching staff, but I think they’ve done him a disservice. His second year, while throwing for “only” 3100 yards (his only season over 3000 yards), he was looking like a real thrower; 7.8 ypa and a 36:6 TD:int ratio. He hasn’t touched that since, while continuing to rush for 67 yards a game. He’s had three seasons since that MVP year, and his passing has deteriorated. Last year was arguably his worst since his rookie season. 
 
I wouldn’t even be in on the two first rounders and a conventional contract, let alone what he’s asking. Something’s gonna have to give and, if it’s not from his side, he could wind up pulling a Le’Veon; missing out on a large guaranteed sum just to sit the year and never make that money back. Dude needs an agent desperately. 

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13 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

We’ll see

they are moving pretty slowly if they really want Lamar, IMO 

They’re currently ineligible to get in on it because they don’t have a first round pick this year. After the draft, they will have two first rounders coming up in the following two drafts, and can then submit an offer sheet (if they’re so inclined). 

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