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Not as many teams in on Lamar as expected...many already bowing out


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2 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Keap pissed a lot of people off with his choice of actions and because a lot of Owners did not want him on their team due to those actions it much be collusion . Keep in mind if he never did that bullsh*t during the national anthem and took a better road to get his message across we would not be having this conversation. 

You're the last person I'd have this conversation w/ and it's completely besides the point.  The point is, the league settled because they were guilty of doing exactly what they're doing right now, so it's far from a conspiracy to clearly see its happening again.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

Taking knee was too rough on you? Too rough of a road? 

FWIW if I was advising Keap during that time I would have told him to find another way to get his point across. People are always going to be offended and in the end Keap only wound up hurting himself and his career I would have had that in mind and Keap should have thought things out a little better.

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1 minute ago, JiF4Lamar said:

You're the last person I'd have this conversation w/ and it's completely besides the point.  The point is, the league settled because they were guilty of doing exactly what they're doing right now, so it's far from a conspiracy to clearly see its happening again.

 

 

Once again if Lamar has Insane QB numbers there is no collusion or even that conversation . This is a dumb argument Lamars numbers are not 40 mil per and neither are a lot of QB's getting that much .

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16 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Calling out owners claiming collusion because no one wants Lamar is Moronic and trust me I'm no fan of Billionaires . If Lamar had Aaron Rodgers type numbers at this stage of his career the entire league would be lining up including me and all of you as fans. Unfortunately Lamar is declining and does not in any way shape or form deserve a 40 mil contract or a large guaranteed sum. 

I would happily give LJ $120mm over three years guaranteed.  $40mm a year for three years is fair.  Baltimore has offered him $133mm guaranteed.  Which is more aggressive than I think most would.

So $40mm a year is fine - it's the longer term and larger guarantees that would scare the hell out of me,  With his playing style and recent injury history - I'm not bidding what I know it would take to get him

The Balt offer is a good one - I think that's the problem here.  The collusionists are thinking the Baltimore was being cheap and low balling, they weren't!

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7 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

 

The Pittsburgh Steelers should give Lamar the Deshaun Watson contract.

The Ravens would have no choice but to match it or have to play against him with their most hated rival twice a year for the next 7 years.

Either way, the Steelers win. 

Baltimore would fly Lamar to Pittsburgh with body guards to ensure he does not get hurt or lost to sign that deal.  The Watson contract for a QB whose game is outside the pocket and takes the hits he does is not something most teams have any interest in doing.  

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19 minutes ago, Warfish said:

That would be collusion, and I believe it would be illegal and a violation of the CBA, and a basis for a lawsuit from the players union.

Why does everyone always go with conspiracy theory as first-option-rationale on literally anything these days?

I think the timing was just extremely odd and lends credence to the idea that there was something going on there. Why, within minutes of the tag being announced, was there a public declaration of a lack of interest from like six teams? 

Forgetting formal collusion so to speak, Haslett being shunned for giving Watson that deal is certainly a message among the old boys club of what not to do.

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2 minutes ago, usanyj said:

That's not the argument, people are comparing what lamar should be getting NOW (Not based off what he did 3 years ago) to what some players may get down the road if a president is set. If in a year or 2, burrow goes down the same path as lamar then my guess would be teams would be hesitant to give him a fully guaranteed contract.

You're trying to spin this into a racial issue, when the only other player to receive this fully guaranteed contract is a person of color.  Two things can be true at once, owners are not going to give him this deal because they don't want to give out deals like this, watson being the outlier deal.  And he just isn't worth that deal based off of years of recent history with games played/production.

 

I'm not spinning sh*t.  Lamar is younger than Burrow.  He's won an MVP, he's 45-16 in his career.  The impact on his team is literally, top 5 scoring offense to the worst in the NFL.  Nobody has that type of impact.  You keep referencing how long ago this MVP was, well, so what?  Burrow wasnt in the SB this year, so he regressing.  See?  Silly sh*t.

This is about the owners coming together and not wanting to give out contracts/deal w/ a player directly.  I've never once, made this racial.  Burrow is going to demand a guaranteed contract because he deserves it and is better than Lamar Jackson, thats why he was used as an example. 

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2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I’d guess Lamar is hoping there’s a George Steinbrenner in the bunch who doesn’t care about placating the other owners, and maybe someone like Tepper comes through in a few days, but it doesn’t sound like it. 

Jesus.  People are going to need real evidence and not conjecture (no matter if they are correct) about "collusion".  

Guarantee about $300 million for an oft-injured QB with a mediocre arm at best, who ditched his team in the playoffs? 

No? 

"oh then you must be colluding!"

The "collusion" argument, whether true or false, has zero bearing here.  There is NO PROOF.  Even if it's true.  Owners win here.  

Frankly, any team who would guarantee that much for Lamar despite his injury risk, despite his lack of arm talent, would have done so already.  

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10 minutes ago, usanyj said:

That's not the argument, people are comparing what lamar should be getting NOW (Not based off what he did 3 years ago) to what some players may get down the road if a president is set. If in a year or 2, burrow goes down the same path as lamar then my guess would be teams would be hesitant to give him a fully guaranteed contract.

You're trying to spin this into a racial issue, when the only other player to receive this fully guaranteed contract is a person of color.  Two things can be true at once, owners are not going to give him this deal because they don't want to give out deals like this, watson being the outlier deal.  And he just isn't worth that deal based off of years of recent history with games played/production.

 

Let me help you out here. ...

9CyWSomkhHScSDcdNQW49c0aHOBQx80GuIXa209C

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2 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I'm really not sure why this becomes racial when it's really all about performance. 

Because everything is now....He was offered 133 million guaranteed and we are calling ownership racist. Give me a break....its the easy out, ask kendrick perkins.

If Lamar played MVP ball the last three years and played in most of the games, I'd see the argument.  Instead, he has missed half his games and "quit on his team".  Why would you guarantee anyone that? It has to be based on info you have now.

3 years ago he was an mvp....well 3 years ago Russell Wilson threw for 4100 yards, 34 total tds and only 5 picks.... is Russ worth the contract he has with the broncos at present time? no!  Go off the info you have at present, not dreams of the past.

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1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

I would happily give LJ $120mm over three years guaranteed.  $40mm a year for three years is fair.  Baltimore has offered him $133mm guaranteed.  Which is more aggressive than I think most would.

So $40mm a year is fine - it's the longer term and larger guarantees that would scare the hell out of me,  With his playing style and recent injury history - I'm not bidding what I know it would take to get him

The Balt offer is a good one - I think that's the problem here.  The collusionists are thinking the Baltimore was being cheap and low balling, they weren't!

Everyone should keep in mind the way some of us disagree about Lamar's performance I'm sure GM's and Owners disagree in the same way. So if I were an owner I would not give Lamar a dime. If Lamar had stats like some of the greats he wants to be paid like he would certainly be in the conversation. But He does not and that's the only real thing in this entire argument its not race like some are implying.

If it were about race for me and I was an all out racist I would not want to Sign Quinnen I guess. You know what ? When Sauce comes up for contract I don't want to sign him either, Garrett screw him too. 

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8 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I'm really not sure why this becomes racial when it's really all about performance. 

Because the media is trained to take it there to stir the pot. Lamar Jackson will be fine I assure everyone who’s worried about his money. 

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2 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Everyone should keep in mind the way some of us disagree about Lamar's performance I'm sure GM's and Owners disagree in the same way. So if I were an owner I would not give Lamar a dime. If Lamar had stats like some of the greats he wants to be paid like he would certainly be in the conversation. But He does not and that's the only real thing in this entire argument its not race like some are implying.

If it were about race for me and I was an all out racist I would not want to Sign Quinnen I guess. You know what ? When Sauce comes up for contract I don't want to sign him either, Garrett screw him too. 

You have a thorough misunderstanding about racism.

Easy example: Donald Sterling played many black players tons of money over the years. Did that stop him from being racist? 

Also, not saying you're racist, but your hypothetical is silly.

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1 minute ago, usanyj said:

Because everything is now....He was offered 133 million guaranteed and we are calling ownership racist. Give me a break....its the easy out, ask kendrick perkins.

If Lamar played MVP ball the last three years and played in most of the games, I'd see the argument.  Instead, he has missed half his games and "quit on his team".  Why would you guarantee anyone that? It has to be based on info you have now.

3 years ago he was an mvp....well 3 years ago Russell Wilson threw for 4100 yards, 34 total tds and only 5 picks.... is Russ worth the contract he has with the broncos at present time? no!  Go off the info you have at present, not dreams of the past.

Really, there is no need for owner collusion and no proof thereof either.  It's not collusion to refuse a contract that Lamar has NOT earned and is NOT worthy of.  It's COMMON SENSE.  Lamar is asking for the moon for a QB who has a questionable arm, frequent missed games, high injury risk type QB running.  But of course it's "collusion" because no team wants to be as stupid as the Browns.  I'd be right there in the same camp as the other owners... no need for collusion.  Just common sense.

Good luck with that theory, Lamar.  

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7 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Once again if Lamar has Insane QB numbers there is no collusion or even that conversation . This is a dumb argument Lamars numbers are not 40 mil per and neither are a lot of QB's getting that much .

INSANE, GOT NO BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Jackson has thrown 70 touchdowns with 20 interceptions over his first 1,000 passes, trailing only Dan Marino (75-26), Kurt Warner (73-34), and Mahomes (71-16),

Jackson is the fastest QB in league history (35 games) to reach 5,000 passing yards and 2,000 rushing yards. He’s also the first player in NFL history to reach 5,000 passing yards and 2,500 rushing yards in the first three seasons of a career.

Jackson tallied 26 TD passes and 7 rushing TDs in 2020, joining Deshaun Watson (2018-19) as the only QBs with at least 25 TD passes and 5 rushing TDs in consecutive seasons in NFL history.

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2 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

I'm not spinning sh*t.  Lamar is younger than Burrow.  He's won an MVP, he's 45-16 in his career.  The impact on his team is literally, top 5 scoring offense to the worst in the NFL.  Nobody has that type of impact.  You keep referencing how long ago this MVP was, well, so what?  Burrow wasnt in the SB this year, so he regressing.  See?  Silly sh*t.

This is about the owners coming together and not wanting to give out contracts/deal w/ a player directly.  I've never once, made this racial.  Burrow is going to demand a guaranteed contract because he deserves it and is better than Lamar Jackson, thats why he was used as an example. 

Lamar is younger by a month, lets stop pretending there are years between them.

Yes, like I said, two things can be true, it is likely the nfl not wanting to dish out guaranteed deals, so they don't want to negotiate like that...however, he was also offered 133 million in guaranteed money so lets stop pretending a team doesn't want to pay him at all.

Burrow may deserve a guaranteed deal now, but again, when he starts negotiating, lets see where he is at. Right now, lamar doesn't deserve a guaranteed deal, he hasn't played a full season in 3 years and his numbers have declined each year since his mvp year.  That's asking a lot to invest into. If he had played full seasons and kept up MVP numbers, then I see his argument. Right now? not at all.

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8 minutes ago, usanyj said:

Because everything is now....He was offered 133 million guaranteed and we are calling ownership racist. Give me a break....its the easy out, ask kendrick perkins.

If Lamar played MVP ball the last three years and played in most of the games, I'd see the argument.  Instead, he has missed half his games and "quit on his team".  Why would you guarantee anyone that? It has to be based on info you have now.

3 years ago he was an mvp....well 3 years ago Russell Wilson threw for 4100 yards, 34 total tds and only 5 picks.... is Russ worth the contract he has with the broncos at present time? no!  Go off the info you have at present, not dreams of the past.

I would like to hear more of your views.

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9 minutes ago, usanyj said:

Because everything is now....He was offered 133 million guaranteed and we are calling ownership racist. Give me a break....its the easy out, ask kendrick perkins.

If Lamar played MVP ball the last three years and played in most of the games, I'd see the argument.  Instead, he has missed half his games and "quit on his team".  Why would you guarantee anyone that? It has to be based on info you have now.

3 years ago he was an mvp....well 3 years ago Russell Wilson threw for 4100 yards, 34 total tds and only 5 picks.... is Russ worth the contract he has with the broncos at present time? no!  Go off the info you have at present, not dreams of the past.

Lamar Jackson is 26.

Russell Wilson is 34.

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2 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

You have a thorough misunderstanding about racism.

Easy example: Donald Sterling played many black players tons of money over the years. Did that stop him from being racist? 

Also, not saying you're racist, but your hypothetical is silly.

Nope my hypothetical is 100 % on point. Since when do we pay a QB averaging 2400 yards passing a year with declining rushing numbers 40 mil per ? If that number was 4800 yards passing there would be ten teams lining up for Lamar.

And FWIW I have a very good understanding of what racism is and while some is very very real some is used as a tool and that's what I will not respect.

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10 minutes ago, usanyj said:

Because everything is now....He was offered 133 million guaranteed and we are calling ownership racist. Give me a break....its the easy out, ask kendrick perkins.

If Lamar played MVP ball the last three years and played in most of the games, I'd see the argument.  Instead, he has missed half his games and "quit on his team".  Why would you guarantee anyone that? It has to be based on info you have now.

3 years ago he was an mvp....well 3 years ago Russell Wilson threw for 4100 yards, 34 total tds and only 5 picks.... is Russ worth the contract he has with the broncos at present time? no!  Go off the info you have at present, not dreams of the past.

Top 5 offense w/ Lamar.  Worst in the NFL w/out Lamar.  8-4 w/ Lamar.  2-5 w/out Lamar.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

INSANE, GOT NO BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Jackson has thrown 70 touchdowns with 20 interceptions over his first 1,000 passes, trailing only Dan Marino (75-26), Kurt Warner (73-34), and Mahomes (71-16),

Jackson is the fastest QB in league history (35 games) to reach 5,000 passing yards and 2,000 rushing yards. He’s also the first player in NFL history to reach 5,000 passing yards and 2,500 rushing yards in the first three seasons of a career.

Jackson tallied 26 TD passes and 7 rushing TDs in 2020, joining Deshaun Watson (2018-19) as the only QBs with at least 25 TD passes and 5 rushing TDs in consecutive seasons in NFL history.

Good for Jackson .. how did the rest of the team do under his guidance from 2020-2022 - im actually being serious .. i want to know ?

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4 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

INSANE, GOT NO BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Jackson has thrown 70 touchdowns with 20 interceptions over his first 1,000 passes, trailing only Dan Marino (75-26), Kurt Warner (73-34), and Mahomes (71-16),

Jackson is the fastest QB in league history (35 games) to reach 5,000 passing yards and 2,000 rushing yards. He’s also the first player in NFL history to reach 5,000 passing yards and 2,500 rushing yards in the first three seasons of a career.

Jackson tallied 26 TD passes and 7 rushing TDs in 2020, joining Deshaun Watson (2018-19) as the only QBs with at least 25 TD passes and 5 rushing TDs in consecutive seasons in NFL history.

It’s not the stats, it’s his style of play.  He does not last the season, the ravens know he may never be healthy for the playoffs and his career is destined to be shortened b/c of his playing style.  

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1 minute ago, JiF4Lamar said:

INSANE, GOT NO BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Jackson has thrown 70 touchdowns with 20 interceptions over his first 1,000 passes, trailing only Dan Marino (75-26), Kurt Warner (73-34), and Mahomes (71-16),

Jackson is the fastest QB in league history (35 games) to reach 5,000 passing yards and 2,000 rushing yards. He’s also the first player in NFL history to reach 5,000 passing yards and 2,500 rushing yards in the first three seasons of a career.

Jackson tallied 26 TD passes and 7 rushing TDs in 2020, joining Deshaun Watson (2018-19) as the only QBs with at least 25 TD passes and 5 rushing TDs in consecutive seasons in NFL history.

His style is a super high injury risk.  Team allegiance is questionable.  Fine to guarantee some of the contract, but no way in hell would I fully guarantee him.  That's f*cking insane and overly risky.   

Here is the faulty reasoning that have you and others have:  Because Cleveland did something stupid.... other teams must replicate or it's "collusion".   

That argument, right or wrong, will NEVER work.  Find something better.  This mess is 100% on Lamar.  Ravens getting royally screwed by him and his mother.

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24 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

 

The Pittsburgh Steelers should give Lamar the Deshaun Watson contract.

The Ravens would have no choice but to match it or have to play against him with their most hated rival twice a year for the next 7 years.

Either way, the Steelers win. 

 

i'm not so sure handing your rival two 1st round picks and locking yourself into a fully guaranteed $250MM+ contract to a player who has missed 12 games over the last 2 years due to injuries is "winning"

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Just now, JiF4Lamar said:

Top 5 offense w/ Lamar.  Worst in the NFL w/out Lamar.  8-4 w/ Lamar.  2-5 w/out Lamar.

 

 

Dont you think there is a distinct possibility that is because the offense was built around Lamar to be all about Lamar.  Then when he got hurt there was no one to run this unique offense ... so the team had trouble pivoting to a completely different style ???

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2 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

Lamar Jackson is 26.

Russell Wilson is 34.

Dude, you were comparing 3 years ago to today... I showed Russ's stats from 3 years ago, when he was 31. The question being, would you give russ the contract he has now based off of todays info? No you wouldn't and you can't use the argument that 3 years ago he put up the numbers that I showed.

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4 minutes ago, usanyj said:

Lamar is younger by a month, lets stop pretending there are years between them.

Yes, like I said, two things can be true, it is likely the nfl not wanting to dish out guaranteed deals, so they don't want to negotiate like that...however, he was also offered 133 million in guaranteed money so lets stop pretending a team doesn't want to pay him at all.

Burrow may deserve a guaranteed deal now, but again, when he starts negotiating, lets see where he is at. Right now, lamar doesn't deserve a guaranteed deal, he hasn't played a full season in 3 years and his numbers have declined each year since his mvp year.  That's asking a lot to invest into. If he had played full seasons and kept up MVP numbers, then I see his argument. Right now? not at all.

Kyler Murray got 160 guaranteed.  133 is a slap in the face and obvious attempt to cap what they're dishing out.  

I'm using Burrow as an example because it's going to happen.  You keep acting like when now, here than, matters.  It doesnt.  This about what the league is trying to do w/ guarantee contracts.  

The only knock on Lamar is his health.  This nonsense about production is ridiculous.  He's right up there w/ Mahomes and Burrow in terms of how he impacts his team.  The Ravens are dog sh*t w/out him and have done an absolutely terrible job of building around him.  He carries that team like no other player in the league. 

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2 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

YOU TOOK IT THERE!!!!!   lmfao 

JIF I can rea between the lines don't play this game with me. You made numerous references to possible racism being in play here . This is a civil conversation and opinion based so I guess we can agree to disagree on racism being present or not but don't try to deny what you said in plain sight. I took it there because I called out what you were doing, you danced I called it what it was .

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Just now, JiF4Lamar said:

Kyler Murray got 160 guaranteed.  133 is a slap in the face and obvious attempt to cap what they're dishing out.  

I'm using Burrow as an example because it's going to happen.  You keep acting like when now, here than, matters.  It doesnt.  This about what the league is trying to do w/ guarantee contracts.  

The only knock on Lamar is his health.  This nonsense about production is ridiculous.  He's right up there w/ Mahomes and Burrow in terms of how he impacts his team.  The Ravens are dog sh*t w/out him and have done an absolutely terrible job of building around him.  He carries that team like no other player in the league. 

The murray contract is another reason not to pay him

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4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

It’s not the stats, it’s his style of play.  He does not last the season, the ravens know he may never be healthy for the playoffs and his career is destined to be shortened b/c of his playing style.  

I responded to someone saying he didnt have insane stats.  I cant respond to everyone at one time.

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