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Not as many teams in on Lamar as expected...many already bowing out


AFJF

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3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You are literally the first human on the planet who has ever said Lamar Jackson lacks arm talent.

Run first, throw last.  Why? Oh I forgot.... Ravens receivers can't catch except for TE over the middle, right.  Lamar is not a great arm.  It's his running that makes him a top flight QB, not his arm.  It's his running that will forever make him more risky than others.  But of course... collusion.  LMFAO

Still way better than anything we've seen on the Jets of course.

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17 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

They’re out on the Deshaun number.

Sure, but why pull out? Just cause a deal hasn't been struck doesn't mean there isn't space to negotiate. Is 5 years $230m  the only deal he'd accept?

If I were the Falcons or Panthers and I was outside of perceived striking distance for one of the top 4 rookie QBs, I'd absolutely offer Lamar a massive short term deal. 

5 years $250m ($50m signing bonus with $120m fully guaranteed), cap hits could be:

23 - $40m

24 - $50m

25 - $130m (phony year $30m dead cap)

26 - void

27 - void

 

Basically they'd have to cut Lamar in 2025 or restructure at the new market rate. Would show the money to Lamar now while also allowing Lamar to make even more if he gambles on himself.

Maybe Lamar is not open to $120m fully guaranteed over 2 years but I'd at least want to talk to him.

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1 minute ago, bla bla bla said:

Sure, but why pull out? Just cause a deal haven't been struck doesn't mean there isn't space to negotiate. Is 5 years $230m  the only deal he'd accept?

If I were the Falcons or Panthers and I was outside of perceived striking distance for one of the top 4 rookie QBs, I'd absolutely offer Lamar a massive short term deal. 

5 years $250m ($50m signing bonus), cap hits could be:

23 - $40m

24 - $50m

25 - $130m (phony year $30m dead cap)

26 - void

27 - void

 

Basically they'd have to cut Lamar in 2025 or restructure at the new market rate. Would show the money to Lamar now while also allowing Lamar to make even more if he gambles on himself.

Maybe Lamar is not open to $120m fully guaranteed over 2 years but I'd at least want to talk to him.

I think teams that aren't doing a Watson deal don't want to invest energy crafting a contract the Ravens will simply match. 

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38 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

INSANE, GOT NO BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Jackson has thrown 70 touchdowns with 20 interceptions over his first 1,000 passes, trailing only Dan Marino (75-26), Kurt Warner (73-34), and Mahomes (71-16),

Jackson is the fastest QB in league history (35 games) to reach 5,000 passing yards and 2,000 rushing yards. He’s also the first player in NFL history to reach 5,000 passing yards and 2,500 rushing yards in the first three seasons of a career.

Jackson tallied 26 TD passes and 7 rushing TDs in 2020, joining Deshaun Watson (2018-19) as the only QBs with at least 25 TD passes and 5 rushing TDs in consecutive seasons in NFL history.

Still, a running QB carries more risk and that can be seen to lower his value. That is undeniable.

I guess it's "collusion" to not agree that Lamar is worth what he is asking.  LOL.  It all comes back to the really stupid argument that just because Cleveland did some thing insane, the rest of the league has to follow it or else it's collusion.  That really is the heart of that argument and it is flat out dumb (whether there is collusion or not).  

The real issue should be whether Lamar is worth his asking price, including outlandish guarantee.    Is it ok with you that many don't think so, or are you hiring your anti-trust lawyers as we speak?

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3 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Sure, but why pull out? Just cause a deal hasn't been struck doesn't mean there isn't space to negotiate. Is 5 years $230m  the only deal he'd accept?

If I were the Falcons or Panthers and I was outside of perceived striking distance for one of the top 4 rookie QBs, I'd absolutely offer Lamar a massive short term deal. 

5 years $250m ($50m signing bonus with $120m fully guaranteed), cap hits could be:

23 - $40m

24 - $50m

25 - $130m (phony year $30m dead cap)

26 - void

27 - void

 

Basically they'd have to cut Lamar in 2025 or restructure at the new market rate. Would show the money to Lamar now while also allowing Lamar to make even more if he gambles on himself.

Maybe Lamar is not open to $120m fully guaranteed over 2 years but I'd at least want to talk to him.

I don’t think anyone has pulled out. Just out at that number. I think Jackson has dug in on the Watson deal. It’s been reported he turned down 160-180 mill guaranteed before last season. 

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I would be using my plausible deniability sources to tamper like a mother f-er to find out if Lamar would be interested in playing for the Jets. Soon as the free agency window opens, I would give Lamar that Deshaun Watson contract,  and hope B-more don't match, then trade Quinnen Williams for a Jamal Adams type haul. Let's shake things up and try to end this 12-year playoff drought. 

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6 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

@JiF4Lamar Simple Question ... IF Lamar had the stats of a top passer in the league like 5k yards 30 TD's a year do you think in your heart teams would not be lining up to sign him ? That's including the last 2 injuries. Would there be collusion then ?

Yes.  The Owners can no longer put an entire contract in escrow and dont want to give out exuberant guaranteed contracts.

 

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17 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

No, now you're deflecting. I was referring to your last paragraph about paying Jet players and I responded with an example. What is your response?

The guy you used in your example is a pile of sh*t and that's an entirely different conversation . My example was spot on.

I'm not deflecting anything you brought up an isolated incident it has nothing to do with this conversation.

 

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36 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

Kyler Murray got 160 guaranteed.  133 is a slap in the face and obvious attempt to cap what they're dishing out.  

I'm using Burrow as an example because it's going to happen.  You keep acting like when now, here than, matters.  It doesnt.  This about what the league is trying to do w/ guarantee contracts.  

The only knock on Lamar is his health.  This nonsense about production is ridiculous.  He's right up there w/ Mahomes and Burrow in terms of how he impacts his team.  The Ravens are dog sh*t w/out him and have done an absolutely terrible job of building around him.  He carries that team like no other player in the league. 

So all that mandates an absurd guarantee for an injury prone QB based on his style of play?

No, it doesn't, IMO of course.  I know you feel that it does, but I don't agree at all. 

It's also an "opinion" that it is insane to fully guarantee a contract for that type of player.  If I am owner/GM, I pass.  So to you, I'm colluding?  Prove it.  

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1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

The guy you used in your example is a pile of sh*t and that's an entirely different conversation . My example was spot on.

I'm not deflecting anything you brought up an isolated incident it has nothing to do with this conversation.

 

My point is that just because a person would pay someone money doesn't mean they're not racist. That's it

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3 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

Yes.  The Owners can no longer put an entire contract in escrow and dont want to give out exuberant guaranteed contracts.

 

Probably so and as we say they made their own bed but I think if Lamar had those top tier stats all that goes away until maybe the next guy and the next ....

Guaranteed money in baseball is fine in the NFL its just stupid due to the injury rate and players breaking down over time. 

If they came out with this as a blanket statement and figured out a way to remedy the situation like they did with structuring the Draft compensation they would have gotten more respect for it. Then they have to fight the NFLPA

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The general vibe I'm getting is that because one team (CLE) jumped off a bridge, all the other teams are colluding because they didn't follow and jump off as well.

If Lamar is holding out for 100% guaranteed money on a $250M deal, following three decent, but far from top-5 level seasons in a row, I can certainly understand why the response is underwhelming.  The Twitter mafia is harping on him as a MVP QB in his mid-20s while ignoring the fact that he hasn't played at that level in 3 years as if it doesn't matter.  Matt Ryan won an MVP (and has generally been a better passer the last few years) but nobody is clamoring for teams to throw a quarter billion dollars at him.  Heck, same for Cam Newton. 

Lamar could have a signed deal today with more than enough guaranteed money for any lifestyle if he took any contract structure other than what Watson got, but without an agent whispering in his ear, he's making his own bed.  

Right now there are (IMO) two quarterbacks in the league I consider worth that kind of deal.  Mahomes and Burrow.  Committing 5 years of massive cap hits to a QB who might not be absolutely great is literally the dumbest thing a team can do right now given the way the cap works.  Just ask ARI how they feel about the Kyler contract and they only guaranteed under half of it.

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1 minute ago, Dcat said:

So all that mandates an absurd guarantee for an injury prone QB based on his style of play?

No, it doesn't, IMO of course.  I know you feel that it does, but I don't agree at all. 

It's also an "opinion" that it is insane to fully guarantee a contract for that type of player.  If I am owner/GM, I pass.  So to you, I'm colluding?  Prove it.  

Players get injured, it happens.   Watson blew his knee out, got paid.  Kyler Murray missed games the year he got his contract, got paid.  You have to pay to play.  There are only a handful of guys who move the needle, Jackson is one of them. 

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4 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

Players get injured, it happens.   Watson blew his knee out, got paid.  Kyler Murray missed games the year he got his contract, got paid.  You have to pay to play.  There are only a handful of guys who move the needle, Jackson is one of them. 

As an owner, I don't want his risk for that kind of money.  Period.  But you are not ok with that.  To you, its collusion among an evil, conspiring group of owners..  To others it screams racism, for some inexplicable reason  So because Cleveland's owner gave Watson all that guaranteed money despite his history and risks it means that if other teams don't follow, it's collusion or racism?    Yeah sure.  

You really need a new line of reasoning here.

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19 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Sure, but why pull out? Just cause a deal hasn't been struck doesn't mean there isn't space to negotiate. Is 5 years $230m  the only deal he'd accept?

If I were the Falcons or Panthers and I was outside of perceived striking distance for one of the top 4 rookie QBs, I'd absolutely offer Lamar a massive short term deal. 

5 years $250m ($50m signing bonus with $120m fully guaranteed), cap hits could be:

23 - $40m

24 - $50m

25 - $130m (phony year $30m dead cap)

26 - void

27 - void

 

Basically they'd have to cut Lamar in 2025 or restructure at the new market rate. Would show the money to Lamar now while also allowing Lamar to make even more if he gambles on himself.

Maybe Lamar is not open to $120m fully guaranteed over 2 years but I'd at least want to talk to him.

This makes zero sense the whole point of the Lamar holding out is to get 250 mil guaranteed and you want to offer him 120 mil contract lol  I'm pretty sure the Ravens already thought about offering him a three year deal.

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1 minute ago, Dcat said:

As an owner, I don't want his risk for that kind of money.  Period.  But you are not ok with that.  To you, its collusion among an evil, conspiring group of owners..  To others it screams racism, for some inexplicable reason  So because Cleveland's owner gave Watson all that guaranteed money despite his history and risks it means that if other teams don't follow, it's collusion or racism?    Yeah sure.  

You really need a new line of reasoning here.

Collusion, yes, very obvious.  Like, blatant in your face obvious.  They've done it before.

Racism?  Nope, never said that or implied it.  Black QB's set this market. 

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4 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

Collusion, yes, very obvious.  Like, blatant in your face obvious. 

No proof.  Oh well?  

I, as an owner (If I were), do not want to risk that absurd amount of guaranteed money on him. Period.  You have zero reason to allege and proclaim that I'm making that decision based on the decisions of other owners.  Giving Jackson a Watson contract, even if Jackson is way better than Watson, is insane in my view, as an owner, and I'm not doing it despite what Cleveland or any other idiot owner does.  And because other owners haven't stepped forward to give Lamar a stupid Watson-contract, they are all colluding with me, right?  Hahahah.   That's not collusion bud.  Ask any anti-trust expert.

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4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

None of those teams are beholden to offering a fully guaranteed deal. Atlanta could have whipped up an offer sheet with Kyler Murray money and submitted it for consideration if they so chose. The fact that each of these teams is saying “nope, no, no interest thanks, nope” as their initial salvo tells you that there’s a concerted effort to make an example out of Lamar specifically. What these owners are doing colluding to protect Mike Brown, who has to sign Joe Burrow, and Dean Spanos, who has to sign Herbert. It’s unlikely either of those guys can afford to put $300 mil into escrow. 

But to do that, they would have to believe the Ravens aren't making him a huge offer, which would be an interesting theory.  They drafted him, they developed him, they're a very highly respected front office with Ozzie and Decosta, and without Lamar they're toast.  So they would suddenly decide they don't want to pay Lamar market value?  That's a stretch IMO.

I think teams know that, and the know the Ravens are going to match any offer Lamar gets.

This is likely what Baltimore is actually doing.  It's a way to let Lamar "test the open market" in a sense.  You put him in a position where other teams can make offers and you're confident that your offer is fair (or better) market value and your demands are unreasonable.

I'd bet he doesn't go anywhere.  Baltimore is going to sit back with their checkbook and match any offer that comes in.  Whish is still kinda' crazy given his injuries and the number of hits he has taken.

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2 minutes ago, Dcat said:

No proof.  Oh well?  

I, as an owner (If I were), do not want to risk that absurd amount of guaranteed money on him. Period.  You have zero reason to allege and proclaim that I'm making that decision based on the decisions of other owners.  Giving Jackson a Watson contract, even if Jackson is way better than Watson, is insane in my view, as an owner, and I'm not doing it despite what Cleveland or any other idiot owner does.  And because other owners haven't stepped forward to give Lamar a stupid Watson-contract, they are all colluding with me, right?  Hahahah.   That's not collusion bud.  Ask any anti-trust expert.

You're not an owner, so this post is meaningless. 

 

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50 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

No, it's the reason why.  The market has been set.  Lamar is 100x better than Murray.

Murray getting everyone associated with drafting and developing him and giving him a new contract got fired.   It may have reduced the market not raised it.   

The market is never set.  That's why it's a market.

Lamar may have backed himself into a corner.  It's a limited market and he may have priced himself out of it.  To be determined...

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Just now, Biggs said:

Murray getting everyone associated with drafting and developing him and giving him a new contract got fired.   It may have reduced the market not raised it.   

The market is never set.  That's why it's a market.

In the NFL market, that is exactly how it works. 

I want to be the highest paid and/or make more than this guy, is exactly how the negotiations begin in the NFL.

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Just now, JiF4Lamar said:

In the NFL market, that is exactly how it works. 

I want to be the highest paid and/or make more than this guy, is exactly how the negotiations begin in the NFL.

As relevant as the price you decide to sell your house for.

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1 hour ago, JiF4Lamar said:

INSANE, GOT NO BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Jackson has thrown 70 touchdowns with 20 interceptions over his first 1,000 passes, trailing only Dan Marino (75-26), Kurt Warner (73-34), and Mahomes (71-16),

Jackson is the fastest QB in league history (35 games) to reach 5,000 passing yards and 2,000 rushing yards. He’s also the first player in NFL history to reach 5,000 passing yards and 2,500 rushing yards in the first three seasons of a career.

Jackson tallied 26 TD passes and 7 rushing TDs in 2020, joining Deshaun Watson (2018-19) as the only QBs with at least 25 TD passes and 5 rushing TDs in consecutive seasons in NFL history.

JIF that entire Example is based on rushing yards you should just take the passing yards out of the equasion altogether

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4 hours ago, JiF4Lamar said:

You cant be this naïve. 

Well, some people are naïve enough to think it's "fishy" to not hand $200 million guaranteed to an injury prone running quarterback.  Can't get much worse than that.

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