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Not as many teams in on Lamar as expected...many already bowing out


AFJF

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6 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Murray getting everyone associated with drafting and developing him and giving him a new contract got fired.   It may have reduced the market not raised it.   

The market is never set.  That's why it's a market.

Lamar may have backed himself into a corner.  It's a limited market and he may have priced himself out of it.  To be determined...

He really needs an agent

I am listening to the Jones press conference right now and while I like him and think he is a good guy - he is terrible speaking in front of an audience. Now I imagine him handling his own negotiations and he probably gets run over.

Not comparing Lamar to DJ in any way - simply saying you need Ari Gold in these type of negotiations. 

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4 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

JIF that entire Example is based on rushing yards you should just take the passing yards out of the equasion altogether

Lamar is without question the best QB not signed.   It's also possible that Murray, Watson and Wilson sucking have reset his market price down.

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1 minute ago, Trotter said:

He really needs an agent

I am listening to the Jones press conference right now and while I like him and think he is a good guy - he is terrible speaking in front of an audience. Now I imagine him handling his own negotiations and he probably gets run over.

Not comparing Lamar to DJ in any way - simply saying you need Ari Gold in these type of negotiations. 

Absolutely.  In a big deal it's always better to be at the table than ending negiotations with ultimatiums.  A bright agent doesn't take it personally and can stay on point.

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17 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

Players get injured, it happens.   Watson blew his knee out, got paid.  Kyler Murray missed games the year he got his contract, got paid.  You have to pay to play.  There are only a handful of guys who move the needle, Jackson is one of them. 

Does the fact that Rodgers outperformed Jackson by a massive level each of the last three seasons (while winning 2 MVPs) have any bearing on your position?  

Let's throw in 2019 (Lamar's MVP season) and look at the last four years.

  • Jackson: 54 games played, 11,008 yards, 95 TDs, 35 INTs.  
  • Rodgers: 65 games played, 16,111 yards, 137 TDs, 25 INTs.  

Lamar rushed for a lot of yards (3,742), mainly because he was the primary rushing option.  19 TDs.  Rodgers rushed for 6 TDs on 527 yards.  

That's a great stat for Lamar, but when you look at the last two seasons, he averages 765  yards and 2.5 TDs.  That does not nearly make up for the difference in passing, which is far more pronounced in the last two years than over the 4-year average.  

Lamar was great in 2019.  good in 2020, and pretty mediocre in 2021 and 2022.  That is not a guy you throw $250M guaranteed at.  Not even close.

 

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1 minute ago, nycdan said:

Does the fact that Rodgers outperformed Jackson by a massive level each of the last three seasons (while winning 2 MVPs) have any bearing on your position?  

Let's throw in 2019 (Lamar's MVP season) and look at the last four years.

  • Jackson: 54 games played, 11,008 yards, 95 TDs, 35 INTs.  
  • Rodgers: 65 games played, 16,111 yards, 137 TDs, 25 INTs.  

Lamar rushed for a lot of yards (3,742), mainly because he was the primary rushing option.  19 TDs.  Rodgers rushed for 6 TDs on 527 yards.  

That's a great stat for Lamar, but when you look at the last two seasons, he averages 765  yards and 2.5 TDs.  That does not nearly make up for the difference in passing, which is far more pronounced in the last two years than over the 4-year average.  

Lamar was great in 2019.  good in 2020, and pretty mediocre in 2021 and 2022.  That is not a guy you throw $250M guaranteed at.  Not even close.

 

What's my position? 

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2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Lamar is without question the best QB not signed.   It's also possible that Murray, Watson and Wilson sucking have reset his market price down.

Lamar is the King of the Highlight reel he's not a good QB. If you were in a playoff game going into the second half down 15-20 points Lamar Jackson would be way down the list of QB's you would want to enter that situation with.

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3 minutes ago, Trotter said:

He really needs an agent

I am listening to the Jones press conference right now and while I like him and think he is a good guy - he is terrible speaking in front of an audience. Now I imagine him handling his own negotiations and he probably gets run over.

Not comparing Lamar to DJ in any way - simply saying you need Ari Gold in these type of negotiations. 

I read an article a while back about teams negotiating with the player vs an agent. Without getting to in depth, one of the main things that makes it hard is consistently hearing about the negatives during the negotiating. the agent can shield and reword comments from a team.  With lamar, he has to hear everything and some of these guys can take these comments personally and can wind up making it even harder to get a deal done.

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Just now, Smashmouth said:

Lamar is the King of the Highlight reel he's not a good QB. If you were in a playoff game going into the second half down 15-20 points Lamar Jackson would be way down the list of QB's you would want to enter that situation with.

Not the list of available QB's.  I disagree with that completely.  Rodgers maybe if he's thumb is healthy and he still has the competitive juices.  No one else who was potentially available.   I would take my chances with Lamar.  He's a big play QB and can break down any team at any time.

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1 minute ago, AFJF said:

This just popped up on my twitter feed.

Schefty almost says verbatim what I said in my previous post @T0mShane  This is the Ravens best way of letting Lamar test the open market and not unprecedented.
 

 

every single play on that video is Lamar running the football because those are the only real highlights he provides

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2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Not the list of available QB's.  I disagree with that completely.  Rodgers maybe if he's thumb is healthy and he still has the competitive juices.  No one else who was potentially available.   I would take my chances with Lamar.  He's a big play QB and can break down any team at any time.

the future will tell us the answer to the Lamar question

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Just now, Smashmouth said:

every single play on that video is Lamar running the football because those are the only real highlights he provides

Didn't even notice that, but I don't know how much of the running is because he wants to run, and how much of it is a product of having bad receivers.  

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7 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Lamar is without question the best QB not signed.   It's also possible that Murray, Watson and Wilson sucking have reset his market price down.

No doubt.  The devastation to Cleveland, Denver and Arizona if these QBs continue those downward slides will be epic.  

Owners should be terrified of following Cleveland's footsteps.  Is Lamar worth that risk?  Lamar's backers here simply can't accept that for owners, it may truly be too great a risk to give out *that* much guaranteed money.  

Kyler Murray, Russell Wilson, D Watson.....   and now Lamar Jackson coming off "injury" having missed the most important games for the Ravens last year.    And some people can't understand why doing a Watson with Lamar would be insane?  LOL

 

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Just now, JiF4Lamar said:

Are you saying in comparison to Rodgers?  I'd be happy w/ Rodgers but I find him to be band aid vs. Lamar is a solution. 

So my point was that Lamar may not be a solution.  He may be a VERY expensive, top-15 QB over the next 4 years.  But you can't pay a QB in the 6-12 range top-5 money.  It makes everything else much harder.  And taking that guaranteed money into the season where you have to start paying Garrett Wilson and Sauce is going to be a killer.  In the absence of everything else, Lamar would be better than doing nothing, but I consider Rodgers a far better option because it provides flexibility in years 3 and 4 which likely giving us much better play now when we can actually be 'in the window'.

I'm totally open to being proven wrong if Lamar goes off this season.  I just don't think I'd bet that way based on recent performance.

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Lamar Jackson is a legit talent in this league. However, quarterbacks with his style of play historically don't last very long.

Multiple first round picks and a big, guaranteed contract is an awfully high price to pay for a quarterback who is already showing signs of physically breaking down.

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4 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

Are you saying in comparison to Rodgers?  I'd be happy w/ Rodgers but I find him to be band aid vs. Lamar is a solution. 

Agreed, but don't forget that the Jets FO/Owner are still holding on to hope for a Zach Wilson turn around in the next 2 years, no matter how fairy tale mystical that is.

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20 minutes ago, Pac said:

Why not? 

They are $9m over the cap right now, so they'd need to clear at least $50m this year (not including any drafted players). They have $86m in 2024 that they can push money into but now you are talking about a $50m hit with 30 players under contract.

I'm sure there are some gymnastics that could be done but that would be an incredibly rough maneuver for a QB that doesn't seem like he wants to play there anymore.

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13 minutes ago, AFJF said:

This just popped up on my twitter feed.

Schefty almost says verbatim what I said in my previous post @T0mShane  This is the Ravens best way of letting Lamar test the open market and not unprecedented.
 

 

Pretty much it in a nutshell. 

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55 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

Yes.  The Owners can no longer put an entire contract in escrow and dont want to give out exuberant guaranteed contracts.

 

 

so is this collusion?

seems like not wanting to give out a fully guaranteed exuberant contract is a smart business decision, not collusion

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3 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

They are $9m over the cap right now, so they'd need to clear at least $50m this year (not including any drafted players). They have $86m in 2024 that they can push money into but now you are talking about a $50m hit with 30 players under contract.

I'm sure there are some gymnastics that could be done but that would be an incredibly rough maneuver for a QB that doesn't seem like he wants to play there anymore.

Understood but the Saints somehow guaranteed Carr 100 mil when they were supposedly in cap hell.  I think teams can make most things happen if they want.  That's why I was never concerned about the June 1st date pertaining to Rodgers. 

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2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

So my point was that Lamar may not be a solution.  He may be a VERY expensive, top-15 QB over the next 4 years.  But you can't pay a QB in the 6-12 range top-5 money.  It makes everything else much harder.  And taking that guaranteed money into the season where you have to start paying Garrett Wilson and Sauce is going to be a killer.  In the absence of everything else, Lamar would be better than doing nothing, but I consider Rodgers a far better option because it provides flexibility in years 3 and 4 which likely giving us much better play now when we can actually be 'in the window'.

I'm totally open to being proven wrong if Lamar goes off this season.  I just don't think I'd bet that way based on recent performance.

Well I guess that's where we differ, I dont want flexibility in 3 years.  I dont want to hit reset on this never ending cycle of QB searching.  I'd love the long term stable option at QB, especially w/ one who gives you a chance at a chip and Lamar gives you that, when healthy, no doubt IMO.    His unique abilities are hard to judge merely based on surface level stats.  His impact on an offense is arguably the biggest in the entire league.  He's averaged 26 pts a game since entering league on an absolute dog sh*t offense in an antiquated offense that he has to completely carry entirely on his shoulders.  I cant imagine him in a more favorable situation, he'd be ridiculous and I'd love to see it here.

I dont worry about cost, a good GM can figure this all out.  Other teams do it and still have tons of talent and big contracts on their teams.

 

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

That would be collusion, and I believe it would be illegal and a violation of the CBA, and a basis for a lawsuit from the players union.

Why does everyone always go with conspiracy theory as first-option-rationale on literally anything these days?

Because its not conspiracy theory?

You don't think that when the owners meet they speak about this stuff?  Call me a tinfoil fan, but I am not sure the richest people in the world got to the positions they did worrying about such things as collusion, legality, and violations of any kind of agreements.

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5 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

 

so is this collusion?

seems like not wanting to give out a fully guaranteed exuberant contract is a smart business decision, not collusion

This was my question earlier.  Is it collusion if a bunch of business owners don't want to repeat the mistakes of another business owner?

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