Bryce Hall @ FS?

[LAD_Brooklyn]

It's maybe time to move Hall to FS and compete for the starting job or serve as depth. He already knows the defense so that a bonus. Plus he has the frame at 6'1, 205 lbs. Going from the video below. Seems he's not to afraid to stick his nose in there to make a tackle. 

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/bryce-hall/32004841-4c19-0195-b2dc-8ed90605a8d1

Overview

Angular outside corner who uses instinctive footwork and long arms to close out and challenge a healthy percentage of throws. His backpedal and transitions are more functional than fluid and could be exploited by NFL route-runners and speedsters. His reactive quickness and ball skills fit nicely into zone-based coverages, allowing greater freedom to spy quarterbacks and squeeze short and intermediate throws. He can handle man coverage, but he needs protection over the top. Hall is a future starting cornerback but might garner attention at free safety at some point in his career.

[Embrace the Suck]

I was actually thinking this the other night. I don't think he would have any holes in his game as a FS. I would love to see them try this out in camp.

[Barkus]

He doesn’t have good ball skills which is what you want in your FS. 

[Sperm Edwards]

I'd be more optimistic if he wasn't totally benched on D (as active on 15 plays all season long), and not even really being activated for specials until Echols went on IR in December.

Something happened -- he wasn't a good starter but we've had worse. It could be just that he wasn't needed with Sauce + Reed + MC2 healthy all year, but that's quite a downward spiral.

His cap hit isn't high but it's not totally insignificant. $2.7MM may be too steep for the team's #5 CB from last year, with #s 1-4 all returning.

[PepPep]

6 minutes ago, Barkus said:

He doesn’t have good ball skills which is what you want in your FS. 

He doesn't have good ball skills for a CB. He has much better ball skills with his back to the WR. At any rate. Not sure how he will work out at FS. To me, a bigger concern is lack of speed/acceleration nec. to cover ground and give help on streaking receivers. 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

2 minutes ago, Barkus said:

He doesn’t have good ball skills which is what you want in your FS. 

I totally agree but that's as a CB. Ball skills while in man coverage with your eyes not on the QB and being free over the top is two different situations. That something we may not have the answer to. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

I totally agree but that's as a CB. Ball skills while in man coverage with your eyes not on the QB and being free over the top is two different situations. That something we may not have the answer to. 

It's possible he's just better playing behind with everything/everyone in front of him, but they're going to want Rodgers in camp early to test him out with a good QB.

I'll believe it when I see it, though, all the same.

[Embrace the Suck]

18 minutes ago, Barkus said:

He doesn’t have good ball skills which is what you want in your FS. 

Such as? He was already playing corner. So he isn't a box safety who's never spent time in coverage. FS is a very different position than CB. It's generally easier. FSs are CBs who can't turn their back to the QB and play. Just as CBs are WRs that can't catch.

[The Crusher]

Way weirder thread when you read it as Breece because your glasses slid down. 

[Barry McCockinner]

I don't get why so many people are suddenly concerned w/our FS position?

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I don't get why so many people are suddenly concerned w/our FS position?

Cause we have nobody on the roster.  Last year they carried 4 safeties all year - Whitehead, Joyner, Davis and Adams.  Joyner is a FA, peole expect to cut Whitehead for cap and everybody here hates Davis.  That leaves Adams an UDFA who didn't play very much until the end of the year and Clark who they traded for but seems more like a box guy.They will be adding a body or two and I agree it should be a low level - late pick, cheap vet, or UDFA.  Trying to move a guy like Hall who does not seem to fit in the mix at corner and nobody looked to trade for fits that mold for me. 

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Cause we have nobody on the roster.  Last year they carried 4 safeties all year - Whitehead, Joyner, Davis and Adams.  Joyner is a FA, peole expect to cut Whitehead for cap and everybody here hates Davis.  That leaves Adams an UDFA who didn't play very much until the end of the year and Clark who they traded for but seems more like a box guy.They will be adding a body or two and I agree it should be a low level - late pick, cheap vet, or UDFA.  Trying to move a guy like Hall who does not seem to fit in the mix at corner and nobody looked to trade for fits that mold for me. 

Joyner wasn't anything special. Should be pretty easy to replace. Can't imagine there's a big gap between him and Adams?

[slats]

25 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'd be more optimistic if he wasn't totally benched on D (as active on 15 plays all season long), and not even really being activated for specials until Echols went on IR in December.

Something happened -- he wasn't a good starter but we've had worse. It could be just that he wasn't needed with Sauce + Reed + MC2 healthy all year, but that's quite a downward spiral.

His cap hit isn't high but it's not totally insignificant. $2.7MM may be too steep for the team's #5 CB from last year, with #s 1-4 all returning.

Be interesting if they thought it was worth the experiment. No doubt he got demoted hard. He was a feel good story then nothing. It’s possible he just got lost in their massive, one year improvement at CB, though. 
 
But I like these ideas. I thought Herbig might be our C of the future, too. 

[More Cowbell]

53 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

It's maybe time to move Hall to FS and compete for the starting job or serve as depth. He already knows the defense so that a bonus. Plus he has the frame at 6'1, 205 lbs. Going from the video below. Seems he's not to afraid to stick his nose in there to make a tackle. 

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/bryce-hall/32004841-4c19-0195-b2dc-8ed90605a8d1

Overview

Angular outside corner who uses instinctive footwork and long arms to close out and challenge a healthy percentage of throws. His backpedal and transitions are more functional than fluid and could be exploited by NFL route-runners and speedsters. His reactive quickness and ball skills fit nicely into zone-based coverages, allowing greater freedom to spy quarterbacks and squeeze short and intermediate throws. He can handle man coverage, but he needs protection over the top. Hall is a future starting cornerback but might garner attention at free safety at some point in his career.

I'm not so sure hebwould be starting at FS even of we put him there. 

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Joyner wasn't anything special. Should be pretty easy to replace. Can't imagine there's a big gap between him and Adams?

When you are dealing with what is supposedly a top D, small gaps can mean a ton.  Even if they just roll with Adams, there is still probably at least one roster spot to be had.

[rangerous]

It used to players went from corner to safety as their skills declined.  The big question is why hall hasn’t been used much of late. Sure he’s playing behind sauce and reed with little opportunity the come in but he’s been near invisible.

[Barry McCockinner]

20 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

When you are dealing with what is supposedly a top D, small gaps can mean a ton.  Even if they just roll with Adams, there is still probably at least one roster spot to be had.

If you say so. I doubt the needle moves at all here if Adams is the guy. We can probably backfill depth with a late pick, low end FA or UDFA.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Sign Marcus Peters and convert him to FS

[#27TheDominator]

9 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

If you say so. I doubt the needle moves at all here if Adams is the guy. We can probably backfill depth with a late pick, low end FA or UDFA.

That is literally the exact thing I said.  That goes along with moving a guy like Hall over from corner.  i don't know if you realized it, but we discuss low end FA and UDFA here fairly often and in depth. 

41 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Cause we have nobody on the roster.  Last year they carried 4 safeties all year - Whitehead, Joyner, Davis and Adams.  Joyner is a FA, peole expect to cut Whitehead for cap and everybody here hates Davis.  That leaves Adams an UDFA who didn't play very much until the end of the year and Clark who they traded for but seems more like a box guy.They will be adding a body or two and I agree it should be a low level - late pick, cheap vet, or UDFA.  Trying to move a guy like Hall who does not seem to fit in the mix at corner and nobody looked to trade for fits that mold for me. 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

12 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

When you are dealing with what is supposedly a top D, small gaps can mean a ton.  Even if they just roll with Adams, there is still probably at least one roster spot to be had.

I can go both ways on it. I don't think it's an omg emergency, like a gaping hole in the defense, but wouldn't object to swapping one out in favor of a replacement with better coverage skills.

I think Whitehead is overly-harshly talked about here, like last year he was the league's worst safety in coverage or something. More that a number of not-so-great plays over the course of a season get magnified. I'd bet he dropped into coverage more than they had him stacking in the box. Anyway I don't see his presence as being at all tragic, even paired with 

TBH I don't know that he was any worse than Joyner in coverage, though that may be at least partially due to assignment/opportunity. Also I remember he had a pretty brutal start before settling in a bit more, at least during the win streak. I don't know that Joyner was necessarily better in coverage so much as he was so visibly worse in tackling guys who already had the ball. Felt like he did a bunch of weak shoulder-bump tackles that didn't do squat. Anyway he was supposed to be just a backup but Davis was so useless he ended up starting almost ever game. 

Would be nice if the light suddenly went on for Davis, but those odds aren't looking too good given how he wasn't much more (or any more) active than Hall.

[Sperm Edwards]

13 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

If you say so. I doubt the needle moves at all here if Adams is the guy. We can probably backfill depth with a late pick, low end FA or UDFA.

 

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

That is literally the exact thing I said.  That goes along with moving a guy like Hall over from corner.  i don't know if you realized it, but we discuss low end FA and UDFA here fairly often and in depth. 

 

I'm entertained by you two argrueeing with each other.

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

 

I'm entertained by you two argrueeing with each other.

I will be here all of the week. 

[Barry McCockinner]

4 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

That is literally the exact thing I said.  That goes along with moving a guy like Hall over from corner.  i don't know if you realized it, but we discuss low end FA and UDFA here fairly often and in depth. 

 

Oh I thought when you said the gap could mean a ton you meant this was a significant change. My bad.

I was under the impression we only discuss Aaron Rodgers on here. Carry on.

It just seemed weird to me that jets twitter today seemed to go super focused on FS for some reason and then this FS thread popped up. 

[CanadaSteve]

This is one of the biggest head-scratchers for me in the JD era: The release of Jason Pinnock.  I have a feeling he would have played REAL well last year.  

[Maxman]

7 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Way weirder thread when you read it as Breece because your glasses slid down. 

Good point, let him play FS while he rehabs to be the starting RB again. Awesome.

[varjet]

12 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I don't get why so many people are suddenly concerned w/our FS position?

It’s the weakest position on the team.  Center May be better. 

[The Crusher]

8 hours ago, Maxman said:

Good point, let him play FS while he rehabs to be the starting RB again. Awesome.

Ny Jets. Rehabbing where the game  is going. 

[varjet]

Bryce Hall as a 4th year player already makes too much money for a player who never plays.  

He seems better physically set up to be a FS-not necessarily a guaranty, but it seems like he has more potential as a FS.   He should be brought into camp to compete at FS, which is basically a barren no man’s land.  Maybe release him if he respectfully asks to be able to compete at CB on another team.

If he does not make the team as a FS he gets cut.  Saleh has a history of being to coach up secondary players to switch positions, etc.  

[Bobby816]

I don't hate the idea. Why not try it out in TC

[Bruce Harper]

I've heard worse ideas.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

I've heard worse ideas.

[Jetsfan80]

50 minutes ago, varjet said:

Bryce Hall as a 4th year player already makes too much money for a player who never plays.  

I had no idea cutting him would give us $2.7M in cap savings.  Didn't think a 5th round pick's contract escalated to a number that high, even in year 4.

Seems like a no-brainer that he ought to be a goner if he isn't projected to have much of a role this season.  

[bonkertons]

I wouldn't mind trying this if we hold onto him.  He's pretty buried on the depth chart if everyone stays healthy:  Sauce, Reed, Echols, Carter III.  He probably makes too much for a #5 so my expectation was for him to get cut, but switching him to FS might not be a bad idea.  Wouldn't mind taking a CB late in the draft to fill that #5 spot either way, or try our luck on the UDFA market.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

21 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I don't get why so many people are suddenly concerned w/our FS position?

Maybe because the defense had a stretch of like 8 games without producing a single takeaway.

And molasses Joyner couldn't keep within 10 yards of Jerry Jeudy in coverage.

Meanwhile, as Beningo likes to say, literally like every single week Devin McCourty or somebody else was scoring a defensive TD for New England.

 

[football guy]

Us as fans see the S position differently than the Jets do. They want guys who are smart that are in the right place at the right time rather than guys who are gambling ballhawks. I think they feel Whitehead is much more versatile than we see him as, and the primary reason why Joyner played more deep is because he was more limited near the LOS. Their 2 starting safeties play virtually 100% of the snaps when healthy. In many cases they align both guys deep or interchange who plays closer to the LOS vs. who plays deep. Whitehead spent 45.4% of his snaps near the LOS and 55.6% deep (FS). Joyner played 26.7% near the LOS and 73.3% deep. When Joyner went down with injury, Whitehead spent more time deep, but the Jets pretty much used him in the "Joyner" role against Miami- playing 29.2% near the LOS and 70.8% deep. The staff indicated that they were impressed with how he played in that game. 

The schemes are naturally different, but Clark played 53.8% near the LOS vs. 46.2% deep in 2022. My guess is they believe either (1) they can utilize he and Whitehead similar to how they used their safeties in weeks 15-17 (pretty much an even distribution); or (2) they are comfortable with Whitehead at FS for the majority of the time. They'll probably draft a guy to develop/compete with the rest of the group, but I don't think they view it as a need.