Christian Hackenberg Explains The Dysfunction Of The NY Jets

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Woody Johnson hired incompetent people to make decisions, so its no surprise none of them could find a QB, much less build the rest of the roster.

Douglas arrived here without much of any influence from ownership, and, to no one's surprise, is the best GM we've had in Johnson's tenure.  

None of that leads to the conclusion that "the Jets organization" can't develop quarterbacks.  That is a SOJF Greenie/ESPN/Benigno BS take. 

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

None of that leads to the conclusion that "the Jets organization" can't develop quarterbacks.  That is a SOJF Greenie/ESPN/Benigno BS take. 

I agree with you but for different reasons than you're saying.  I think you can't develop sh*t QBs and all the Jets have drafted have been sh*t QBs.  Regime after regime that couldn't draft QBs under incompetent ownership.

JD's inability to draft QBs specifically falls on him though.  

[RutgersJetFan]

That’s so funny because I think the dysfunction of the Jets is Christian Hackenberg.

[TuscanyTile2]

14 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I agree with you but for different reasons than you're saying.  I think you can't develop sh*t QBs and all the Jets have drafted have been sh*t QBs.  Regime after regime that couldn't draft QBs under incompetent ownership.

JD's inability to draft QBs specifically falls on him though.  

Sam had potential.  The Jets wrote the book on how to ruin a young QB the way they handled him.

[Jetsfan80]

15 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Sam had potential.  The Jets wrote the book on how to ruin a young QB the way they handled him.

They did him no favors but he was also massively over-drafted.  Dude led all of FBS in turnovers his final year in college, and one well-respected scout said his footwork was so bad it was a like a "cow on ice".  

All of that got dismissed because of one tremendous Rose Bowl performance.  

[Jetsfan80]

It's humorous to me that some of the same people here who acknowledge how incompetent the Jets have been over the years still firmly believe this same incompetent org has been drafting QBs who were secretly good.

Incompetent orgs have incompetent GMs who draft incompetent QBs.  Why is this surprising or worth arguing about?

[Flea Flicking Frank]

10 hours ago, Dcat said:

Macc was absolutely smitten by Hackenberg.  Maccagnan was the reason for that draft pick.  Not Woody.  Blame Tebow on Woody.  Blame Sanchez's stupid cap-busting extension on Woody.  But you can't blame him for Hackenberg, b/c t'was all Macc.  Nor  can you blame him for Geno (all Idzik).  

I can absolutely blame Woody for hiring and keeping a terrible GM in Mac

[Sperm Edwards]

12 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's humorous to me that some of the same people here who acknowledge how incompetent the Jets have been over the years still firmly believe this same incompetent org has been drafting QBs who were secretly good.

Incompetent orgs have incompetent GMs who draft incompetent QBs.  Why is this surprising or worth arguing about?

Dozens of 1st and 2nd round bust QBs have been taken, including very early on.

Teams in need of a QB right now are the most likely culprits to see what they want to see, while willfully blocking out what they don’t. Such teams are also the most likely to send a rookie onto the field immediately, and just hand him the job without earning it.

The Jets have been in this position more often by repeating this cycle. Then toss in a bit of bad timing as well, typically zeroed in on drafting a QB early in the wrong seasons.

Or anyway, with the obvious (and most glaring) exception of 2017, but they also used the prior draft’s investment in Hackenberg as Macstupid’s excuse for waiting until 2018 and almost everyone bought it.

I don’t know what’s more disturbing about that one — that they passed on two that seemed Canton-bound after just 2-3 seasons, or that the leak was that the only QB they’d have taken to forgo a shot at the ‘18 class was Trubisky (Jets may even have been the inspiration for Chicago trading up faik).

Also before that would-be failure added to the pile, don’t forget the bullet dodged in ‘06 when Tannenbaum attempted to trade up from Mangold’s eventual slot, to draft Matt Leinart.

Anyway, the only fairly recent, earlier-drafted QB who was forced by the Jets to earn his way onto the field, instead of having the job handed to him, was Hackenberg. Not only did he fail to win the job from the starter, but the guy couldn’t even beat out fellow bust Bryce Petty for the QB3 slot. Before that you’d have to go to the Jets not simply handing the starting job to Clemens over Pennington, and Pennington over Testaverde before him.

So this clown’s the one Jets higher-drafted QB of the whole lot who should have nothing to say.

[bitonti]

14 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Woody Johnson hired incompetent people to make decisions, so its no surprise none of them could find a QB, much less build the rest of the roster.

Douglas arrived here without much of any influence from ownership, and, to no one's surprise, is the best GM we've had in Johnson's tenure.  

JD is 20 - 46 as gm of the jets 

Has never been to the playoffs has never had a winning season 

He picked Zach Wilson at 2, probably the worst bust in team history. 

He's objectively not better than tanny who had 2 afc cg appearances

He's probably not even better than Mac. 

Explain why that's so sweet 

 

[SoFlaJets]

23 minutes ago, bitonti said:

JD is 20 - 46 as gm of the jets 

Has never been to the playoffs has never had a winning season 

He picked Zach Wilson at 2, probably the worst bust in team history. 

He's objectively not better than tanny who had 2 afc cg appearances

He's probably not even better than Mac. 

Explain why that's so sweet 

 

Have you seen the In JD we trust things on Twitter Matt? The one thing about Jets fans that has stayed consistent throughout all of the turbulence it's this: Jets fans always overrate Jets players and apparently some GMs and coaches too

[bicketybam]

JD is 20 - 46 as gm of the jets 
Has never been to the playoffs has never had a winning season 
He picked Zach Wilson at 2, probably the worst bust in team history. 
He's objectively not better than tanny who had 2 afc cg appearances
He's probably not even better than Mac. 
Explain why that's so sweet 
 

Not better than Mac? Riiiiiiight. Is this a symptom of Rag on Rodgers withdrawal?

[bitonti]

28 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

54 minutes ago, bitonti said:

JD is 20 - 46 as gm of the jets 
Has never been to the playoffs has never had a winning season 
He picked Zach Wilson at 2, probably the worst bust in team history. 
He's objectively not better than tanny who had 2 afc cg appearances
He's probably not even better than Mac. 
Explain why that's so sweet 
 

Not better than Mac? Riiiiiiight. Is this a symptom of Rag on Rodgers withdrawal?

Mac had a winning season in 2015 his first as gm 

They won 10 games and finished 2nd in the afc east 

JD has never had a winning season and never finished higher than 3rd 

[bitonti]

30 minutes ago, SoFlaJets said:

Have you seen the In JD we trust things on Twitter Matt? The one thing about Jets fans that has stayed consistent throughout all of the turbulence it's this: Jets fans always overrate Jets players and apparently some GMs and coaches too

JD is excellent at making people believe in JD 

His coaching hires, scouting, free agency moves and even his trading leave alot to be desired 

People point at the darnold and Jamal trades where he is a genius but the man also traded for Joe Flacco and James Robinson 

[Integrity28]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

JD is excellent at making people believe in JD 

His coaching hires, scouting, free agency moves and even his trading leave alot to be desired 

People point at the darnold and Jamal trades where he is a genius but the man also traded for Joe Flacco and James Robinson 

Not wrong, but I think the positive assessment of the guy is driven by the past 200 years of recency bias from horrid Jets management.

[Alka]

On 4/1/2023 at 9:36 AM, Adoni Beast said:

A lot of pot calling black here. He’s not wrong…just the wrong person to speak about this.

I agree with you.  He is not wrong, but hearing from the wrong player who was wrongly drafted is such a turn-off!

My questions are:  1. Whoever was responsible for drafting him, and who evaluated him, should have been immediately fired.  Were they fired?  2. Who put their trust in the evaluators of this player?  

It all comes down to accountability, and there isn't enough of it on the Jets.  Joe Douglas did not evaluate Zach Wilson, but who did?  Did they get fired?  Was there any pushback on the Zach Wilson pick, or do the Jets employ a bunch of "yes" men?  It seems to me that they had too many "yes men", and not enough people who were encouraged to "push back".  

I know from experience that many companies do not like people who push back, and those people are not the ones who rise to the top ranks.  I am a push back type of person, and I will tell you that not everyone is appreciative of people like myself.

[Adoni Beast]

17 minutes ago, Alka said:

I agree with you.  He is not wrong, but hearing from the wrong player who was wrongly drafted is such a turn-off!

My questions are:  1. Whoever was responsible for drafting him, and who evaluated him, should have been immediately fired.  Were they fired?  2. Who put their trust in the evaluators of this player?  

It all comes down to accountability, and there isn't enough of it on the Jets.  Joe Douglas did not evaluate Zach Wilson, but who did?  Did they get fired?  Was there any pushback on the Zach Wilson pick, or do the Jets employ a bunch of "yes" men?  It seems to me that they had too many "yes men", and not enough people who were encouraged to "push back".  

I know from experience that many companies do not like people who push back, and those people are not the ones who rise to the top ranks.  I am a push back type of person, and I will tell you that not everyone is appreciative of people like myself.

At the end of the day our organizational structure has always been a house of cards.

Douglas hasn’t been perfect but hes a football guy who knows what he’s doing and I hope he stays awhile continues to build the program and have some continuity - scouts, evaluators, positional coaches, trainers, etc.

You won’t hit on every draft pick or free agent signing but you have a lot less massive misses with an organized process.

Musical chairs hasn’t worked.

[Fantasy Island]

Zach’s predecessor 

[playtowinthegame]

Just now, Fantasy Island said:

He didn’t cost us as much as Zach

He cost us more. Mac passed on Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes in the 2017 NFL Draft for "BPA", because he thought he already found the Jets franchise quarterback after drafting Christian Hackenberg in the 2nd round of the 2016 NFL Draft.

[Larz]

I remember the “undraftable “ report giving me lots of doubts. This is the only time in my life when the jets were on the clock saying the players name I didn’t want instead of the player I wanted. 
 

it was a total wtf moment. 
 

i gave him the benefit of the doubt because it wasn’t his fault that the jets took him.  Unlike a lot of other players he never gave us hope, never “flashed” anything.  

[Fantasy Island]

3 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

He cost us more. Mac passed on Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes in the 2017 NFL Draft for "BPA", because he thought he already found the Jets franchise quarterback after drafting Christian Hackenberg in the 2nd round of the 2016 NFL Draft.

I re-edited once I thought about that. You are so right

[playtowinthegame]

3 minutes ago, Larz said:

I remember the “undraftable “ report giving me lots of doubts. This is the only time in my life when the jets were on the clock saying the players name I didn’t want instead of the player I wanted. 
 

it was a total wtf moment. 
 

i gave him the benefit of the doubt because it wasn’t his fault that the jets took him.  Unlike a lot of other players he never gave us hope, never “flashed” anything.  

[Larz]

Just now, playtowinthegame said:

He cost us more. Mac passed on Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes in the 2017 NFL Draft for "BPA", because he thought he already found the Jets franchise quarterback after drafting Christian Hackenberg in the 2nd round of the 2016 NFL Draft.

Nope. Maccagnan scouted two draft classes. It’s well documented that he fell in love with Sam after scouting him in person twice. He determined that he needed to change the culture and he needed alpha males. He was not in the QB market the year Mahomes came out because he didn’t think Mahomes or Watson could change the culture here. Imagine that. How depressing. 
Adams was the pick that year because of his reputation as a leader.

its a shame how much hate Adams took for being the guy Maccagnan passed on Mahomes for. That was always Sam. 

[bicketybam]

Mac had a winning season in 2015 his first as gm 
They won 10 games and finished 2nd in the afc east 
JD has never had a winning season and never finished higher than 3rd 

You feel Mac is the reason for the 10 games they won? Enlighten me. And did you forget he passed on Watson and Mahomes to go along with trading up to take Darnold? This are all time collosal blinders.

I've been a member here for a while but I've only really started reading and posting in the last few weeks. You have some of the worst takes I've ever seen on a sports forum.

[bitonti]

9 hours ago, bicketybam said:

You feel Mac is the reason for the 10 games they won? Enlighten me. And did you forget he passed on Watson and Mahomes to go along with trading up to take Darnold? This are all time collosal blinders.

I've been a member here for a while but I've only really started reading and posting in the last few weeks. You have some of the worst takes I've ever seen on a sports forum.

Losing is not winning 

JD has lost a ton of games over 4 years 

These are not takes they are facts bud 

[bicketybam]

Losing is not winning 
JD has lost a ton of games over 4 years 
These are not takes they are facts bud 

About what I expected. Kudos.

[batman10023]

On 4/1/2023 at 10:49 AM, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Hackenberg is yet another perfect example of the disfunction of the Jets created by Woody Johnson.

Overdraft a badly broken QB, have literally zero plan in place to fix what is broken, and fail.

Wilson, Overdraft a very raw not NFL ready QB with physical tools and have zero plan or ability to develop him, throw him in when not ready and watch him fail.

Jets fans need to stop blaming the symptoms, and start blaming the real problem. The real problem is we hire completely inept FO and Coaching staffs, who do stupid things, and then we blame the player when it doesnt work out, and rinse and repeat, and nothing changes.

When Sean Payton is available, and you stick with Robert Saleh, or when Andy Reid is available, and you stick with Tod Bowles, the problem is way bigger than Christian Hackenberg or Zach Wilson.

I assure you Sean Payton does not have Hackenberg or Zach Wilson type failures, neither does Andy Reid.

let's see how payton does with Wilson this year.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

19 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

let's see how payton does with Wilson this year.

Sure, and what I would just about guarantee is if Wilson isnt the guy, within 2 years Payton will have his guy. If he drafts a guy high, he won't bust. If he trades for a guy, he will be a good fit. 

[jtomm]

On 4/1/2023 at 10:34 AM, playtowinthegame said:

Christian Hackenburg should mail a Christmas card to Mike Maccagnan every year. 

[jtomm]

On 4/1/2023 at 10:28 AM, ASH1962 said:

Stop whining and go fishing where you belong. Stiff.

[#27TheDominator]

On 4/1/2023 at 11:48 AM, Asymmetrical said:

its crazy how you can't say slurs anymore without people thinking less of you. this is fascism to me

People thinking less of you is exactly the type of "policing" this type of thing deserves.  Free speech does not include the freedom from the judgment of the populace.  You should not be arrested or fined for what you say, but if people don't like it and tell you so, they are free to do that too.

[win4ever]

On 4/2/2023 at 9:29 AM, Sperm Edwards said:

Dozens of 1st and 2nd round bust QBs have been taken, including very early on.

Teams in need of a QB right now are the most likely culprits to see what they want to see, while willfully blocking out what they don’t. Such teams are also the most likely to send a rookie onto the field immediately, and just hand him the job without earning it.

The Jets have been in this position more often by repeating this cycle. Then toss in a bit of bad timing as well, typically zeroed in on drafting a QB early in the wrong seasons.

Or anyway, with the obvious (and most glaring) exception of 2017, but they also used the prior draft’s investment in Hackenberg as Macstupid’s excuse for waiting until 2018 and almost everyone bought it.

I don’t know what’s more disturbing about that one — that they passed on two that seemed Canton-bound after just 2-3 seasons, or that the leak was that the only QB they’d have taken to forgo a shot at the ‘18 class was Trubisky (Jets may even have been the inspiration for Chicago trading up faik).

Also before that would-be failure added to the pile, don’t forget the bullet dodged in ‘06 when Tannenbaum attempted to trade up from Mangold’s eventual slot, to draft Matt Leinart.

Anyway, the only fairly recent, earlier-drafted QB who was forced by the Jets to earn his way onto the field, instead of having the job handed to him, was Hackenberg. Not only did he fail to win the job from the starter, but the guy couldn’t even beat out fellow bust Bryce Petty for the QB3 slot. Before that you’d have to go to the Jets not simply handing the starting job to Clemens over Pennington, and Pennington over Testaverde before him.

So this clown’s the one Jets higher-drafted QB of the whole lot who should have nothing to say.

Hackeberg is an interesting case study in terms of QB development, or rather QB abandonment.  

His issue was very clear, he had sloppy feet, which completely screwed over his mechanics.  If you fixed his footwork, he had a shot at being a competent back up type guy.  I have no idea why they drafted it, I wasn't in the country when the draft went down, so I saw Hackenberg to the Jets and figured it was a late round pick.   

I think the bigger issue I had was with Bowles, because he honestly seemed like a clueless head coach.  I've never seen a head coach so widely well regarded, yet be so incompetent at his job.  He's the prime example of Peter's Principle, great DC but absolutely atrocious HC.  

Bowles oversaw his starting QB being punched out, then be shunned out by teammates for back up Fitzpatrick (Side note, Fitz seemed to create QB controversy wherever he went, Tua in Miami, Geno here, Mallet in Houston, Locker in Tennessee), let the locker room rule the team, got chewed up by the back up Fitzpatrick for being benched after a 6 INT game, somehow couldn't get an offense to function with Brady, Evans, Godwin, Julio, and Gage as team took a nosedive as soon as he was the HC.   

To me, one of the glaring issues I saw was Petty's debut against the Colts.  A couple of years later, Petty admitted that the Baylor system called for an automatic check to outside go routes, if the defense showed single high safety.  Fairly standard approach in an Air Raid college system.  He came in against the Colts, who used Malik Hooker a lot in single high safety looks, and Petty kept checking the go route to an then unknown Robby Anderson.  Him sitting on the bench learned absolutely nothing in that scenario, that he went back to his college alert system.  I think that spoke volumes about Bowles ability to coach an offense or develop a QB.  

Hackenberg was a bad pick, and the only reason he should have been picked before the 6th round was if you had a great system in place to develop QBs.  Instead, he got paired with one of the worst head coaches I've ever seen, a guy that just can't seem to develop offensive skill players.  

 

[dbatesman]

On 4/2/2023 at 9:10 AM, bicketybam said:

On 4/2/2023 at 8:44 AM, bitonti said:

JD is 20 - 46 as gm of the jets 
Has never been to the playoffs has never had a winning season 
He picked Zach Wilson at 2, probably the worst bust in team history. 
He's objectively not better than tanny who had 2 afc cg appearances
He's probably not even better than Mac. 
Explain why that's so sweet 
 

Not better than Mac? Riiiiiiight. Is this a symptom of Rag on Rodgers withdrawal?

I’m old enough to remember when the main pro-Maccagnan argument was that he was better than Idzik.

[jtomm]

On 4/1/2023 at 10:16 PM, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I can absolutely blame Woody for hiring and keeping a terrible GM in Mac

[UntouchableCrew]

It's difficult to defend the Jets as being highly functional and even more difficult to defend their track record of developing QBs.

But this guy was so bad that despite being a 2nd round pick he could not take the field in the regular season game. That's unheard of.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

I’m old enough to remember when the main pro-Maccagnan argument was that he was better than Idzik.

The only common theme with all the idiot GM's and FO execs is they are all hired by king idiot, Woody Johnson