Beerfish Posted April 6, 2023 Share Posted April 6, 2023 6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: Starting with the obvious/given hope that the prospect pans out at the next level, is there even such a thing as a position one wouldn't be open to drafting with a 6th round pick? Braden Mann. ? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeNamathsFurCoat Posted April 6, 2023 Share Posted April 6, 2023 Anthony Richardson should be a day 3 pick He’s maybe the worst passer I’ve ever seen Zero touch or feel Will be insane if he goes top 10, higher than Fields 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnie Posted April 6, 2023 Share Posted April 6, 2023 Anthony Richardson should be a day 3 pick He’s maybe the worst passer I’ve ever seen Zero touch or feel Will be insane if he goes top 10, higher than FieldsHe is bigger than Fields isnt he? That is a good thing for a RB.Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Thornburgh Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 On 4/6/2023 at 11:47 AM, JoeNamathsFurCoat said: Anthony Richardson should be a day 3 pick He’s maybe the worst passer I’ve ever seen Zero touch or feel Will be insane if he goes top 10, higher than Fields Trey Lance 2.0 Which is not a good thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtomm Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 On 4/6/2023 at 7:29 AM, southparkcpa said: OK, the the last 35 years..... but KO I would argue was borderline developmental who broke the mold but NEVER was gonna take the team far. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southparkcpa Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 6 hours ago, jtomm said: What’s the point you are making????? Im confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 The late round QB that a lot of teams are bringing in for tryouts is Holton Ahlers out of Eastern Carolina. Big gritty left hander. Worked out for the Jets, Packers, Giants, and others recently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 On 4/6/2023 at 11:47 AM, JoeNamathsFurCoat said: Anthony Richardson should be a day 3 pick He’s maybe the worst passer I’ve ever seen Zero touch or feel Will be insane if he goes top 10, higher than Fields A lot of the draft bros have been way too high on him, but all the ex-GMs and personnel guys working in media now are like, “nope no nope not how it’s done nope.” Here’s Randy Mueller, for instance: “Richardson has all the physical tools you look for when setting your QB criteria for an NFL QB. Unfortunately, he is very, very raw and unrefined as a player at the most complicated position in the sport. His decision-making is, at best, a work in progress. He is currently a thrower and not an NFL passer. He’s a project with big upside, but way too risky to consider, in my opinion, early in the draft.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 1 hour ago, T0mShane said: A lot of the draft bros have been way too high on him, but all the ex-GMs and personnel guys working in media now are like, “nope no nope not how it’s done nope.” Here’s Randy Mueller, for instance: “Richardson has all the physical tools you look for when setting your QB criteria for an NFL QB. Unfortunately, he is very, very raw and unrefined as a player at the most complicated position in the sport. His decision-making is, at best, a work in progress. He is currently a thrower and not an NFL passer. He’s a project with big upside, but way too risky to consider, in my opinion, early in the draft.” Do we have any evidence that the latter has a better track record on these things than the former? Randy Mueller once spent the 9th overall pick on Ted Ginn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 14 minutes ago, dbatesman said: Do we have any evidence that the latter has a better track record on these things than the former? Randy Mueller once spent the 9th overall pick on Ted Ginn. I think a lot of the draft bro community is mostly reliant on the same pool of information that ends up on a GMs desk, but only significantly less of it. For sure, the paradigm by which teams select and develop QBs mostly sucks, as proven out by the amount of busts it produces. That said, what Mueller, Pioli, etc are getting at is that Richardson likely won’t be a viable starter fast enough to save a GMs job, particularly a GM who is already drafting top ten. So a GM has to consider that factor while the Todd McShays and Mina Kimes’s of the world can be like, “wow he runs a 4.4 wouldn’t it be cool to draft that guy first overall and build your offense around him.” 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 I just read an article about how Stetson Bennett might not be drafted. Because of his height he’s 5-11, poor interviews and recent incident after he got drunk. But article still said Bennett was probably the best QB in group of late round and possible UFA QBs. He’d be worth it drafting late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 I played on quite a competitive touch football team for years (Some former pros and college guys played in the league.) One year one of our guys had a cousin or something that played a bit for Wyoming. This guy was like Richardson, big, fast, huge arm. We thought for sure we were going to just roll with this guy as QB at our level of league. He was awful, he had no touch, super inaccurate, couldn't hit a barn door. Now part of it was he thought he was sh*t hot and could do no wrong. He lasted about 5 games before he lost interest, which was fine by most of the team. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 7 hours ago, T0mShane said: I think a lot of the draft bro community is mostly reliant on the same pool of information that ends up on a GMs desk, but only significantly less of it. For sure, the paradigm by which teams select and develop QBs mostly sucks, as proven out by the amount of busts it produces. That said, what Mueller, Pioli, etc are getting at is that Richardson likely won’t be a viable starter fast enough to save a GMs job, particularly a GM who is already drafting top ten. So a GM has to consider that factor while the Todd McShays and Mina Kimes’s of the world can be like, “wow he runs a 4.4 wouldn’t it be cool to draft that guy first overall and build your offense around him.” That’s a good way of looking at it—they’re working under totally different sets of incentives. I tend to lean more toward the bro side despite them being ungodly annoying because I generally think that if you draft a bunch of freaks, you’ll end up with a solid roster, whereas if you draft a bunch of RICH LEMMETELLYA THIS KID IS A FOOTBAWL PLAYERs, you’ll end up with Mike Maccagnan’s rosters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flea Flicking Frank Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 On 4/1/2023 at 3:50 PM, jgb said: A really interesting breakdown of why QBs are so hard to scout because their NFL success is determined by a mix of “attainable traits” (which can be learned/improved) and “inherent traits” (which cannot be materially improved and are difficult to evaluate without seeing actual NFL play). http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/2016-nfl-draft/2016/03/17/quarterback-traits-the-attainable-versus-the-inherent/ Whoever can crack to code to accurately measure the inherent traits pre-draft, will become extraordinarily rich. I’ve always thought virtual reality may one day play a part. @Jetsfan80 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVM Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 On 4/1/2023 at 2:09 PM, T0mShane said: It seems likely that they’re going to fill the QB3 role with a rookie and Pauline has said that the Jets have been doing a lot of work on this QB class. As of right now, Zach is the developmental QB2, but I think that’ll change at some point. Post 6/1, his contract becomes easier to trade and they’ll recoup $3.6mm in cap space if he’s dealt. San Fran is in a similar spot: supposedly Shanahan has a hard on for Darnold, and Purdy is going to get every chance to win the QB1 job there when he’s healthy, which puts Lance in no-man’s land. The 2020 class is a trainwreck and a real cautionary tale for team looking at this 2023 group and concluding that they *have to* burn a high pick on one of them. According to the internet, the Jets have shown interest in/met with: Holton Ahlers ECU Max Duggan TCU Adrian O’Connell Purdue This was good content, Tom Shane. 10/10, would recommend. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcoops Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 9 hours ago, Rangers9 said: I just read an article about how Stetson Bennett might not be drafted. Because of his height he’s 5-11, poor interviews and recent incident after he got drunk. But article still said Bennett was probably the best QB in group of late round and possible UFA QBs. He’d be worth it drafting late. With a name like Stetson, he's almost a cert to go to Houston or Dallas. Will be loved by the fans, and make millions for himself and the team, even if he never sees the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 9 hours ago, T0mShane said: I think a lot of the draft bro community is mostly reliant on the same pool of information that ends up on a GMs desk, but only significantly less of it. For sure, the paradigm by which teams select and develop QBs mostly sucks, as proven out by the amount of busts it produces. That said, what Mueller, Pioli, etc are getting at is that Richardson likely won’t be a viable starter fast enough to save a GMs job, particularly a GM who is already drafting top ten. So a GM has to consider that factor while the Todd McShays and Mina Kimes’s of the world can be like, “wow he runs a 4.4 wouldn’t it be cool to draft that guy first overall and build your offense around him.” Think this general idea is why he's perfect for Detroit and to a lesser extent nice for Seattle. Both team that are going to run into limitations because of who they have at quarterback, had winning records last year, and fell into top 6 selections because of old quarterback trades. Those GM's don't need their jobs saved now, they need their jobs saved in a couple of years when they're treading water because their QB isn't elite and they need to start paying some of that young talent and letting some of it go. The decent team that's going to run into a ceiling issue at QB taking the opportunity to bring in someone to toss in right when they start to plateau is the best way to go about QB acquisition IMO. You've got two teams in the top six sitting there without even needing to give up significant capital to do it. Very possible both pass, but I think it's a mistake for everyone involved if almost any other team grabs Richardson. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 2 hours ago, dbatesman said: That’s a good way of looking at it—they’re working under totally different sets of incentives. I tend to lean more toward the bro side despite them being ungodly annoying because I generally think that if you draft a bunch of freaks, you’ll end up with a solid roster, whereas if you draft a bunch of RICH LEMMETELLYA THIS KID IS A FOOTBAWL PLAYERs, you’ll end up with Mike Maccagnan’s rosters. I realize that I’m old and the league scouts QB differently now, but I get the super-shakes whenever someone says that all they need to do is fix the QBs “mechanics” and he’ll be a stud. Particularly as it pertains to Richardson, where so much of the draft bro stuff has been “ignore the stats! Ignore 98% of the #tape! Look at this gif where he manipulates the safety with his eyes (before throwing the ball three yards out of bounds)!” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetfan40yrs Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 I would be willing to draft a QB in the later rounds. (And even bring James Morgan back and give him a chance; he left rather than be put on the Jets PS.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 22 minutes ago, derp said: Think this general idea is why he's perfect for Detroit and to a lesser extent nice for Seattle. Both team that are going to run into limitations because of who they have at quarterback, had winning records last year, and fell into top 6 selections because of old quarterback trades. Those GM's don't need their jobs saved now, they need their jobs saved in a couple of years when they're treading water because their QB isn't elite and they need to start paying some of that young talent and letting some of it go. The decent team that's going to run into a ceiling issue at QB taking the opportunity to bring in someone to toss in right when they start to plateau is the best way to go about QB acquisition IMO. You've got two teams in the top six sitting there without even needing to give up significant capital to do it. Very possible both pass, but I think it's a mistake for everyone involved if almost any other team grabs Richardson. You know what the *perfect* spot for Richardson would be (imo)? Let the Giants come up to 10 or so and take a shot on him. Richardson with Daboll, who uses the QB run game and has experience molding athletic projects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetluv58 Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 On 4/1/2023 at 1:25 PM, Untouchable said: The odds of landing a longterm QB in the 6th round are so minuscule it’s absurd. I don’t see the point Devote every resource towards building the team around Rodgers this year and then if you’re really feeling ballsy, go all in on getting a guy like Drake Maye in 2024 even if Rodgers returns for another year. Wasn’t Brady a sixth rounder? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mphtrilogy Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 12 hours ago, T0mShane said: The late round QB that a lot of teams are bringing in for tryouts is Holton Ahlers out of Eastern Carolina. Big gritty left hander. Worked out for the Jets, Packers, Giants, and others recently. a snapshot from The Beast from Dane, love this quote: Quote Overall, Ahlers efficiently works through his reads and plays with with the aggressive confidence to push the ball downfield, but continued improvements with his footwork and ball placement are vital for him to stick in the NFL. Quote 19. HOLTON AHLERS | East Carolina 6031 | 227 lbs. | 5SR Greenville, N.C. (D.H. Conley) 11/10/1999 (age 23.46) #12 YEAR (GP/GS) CP-ATT CP% YDS TD INT CAR YDS AVG TD NOTES 2018: (10/5) 127-263 48.3 1,785 12 3 119 592 5.0 6 Enrolled in January 2018; Missed two games 2019: (12/12) 264-442 59.7 3,387 21 10 108 359 3.3 6 2020: (8/8) 165-269 61.3 1,927 18 9 54 109 2.0 1 Missed one game (COVID) 2021: (12/12) 256-414 61.8 3,131 18 10 116 204 1.8 6 27-yard receiving TD; Graduated with his degree (communication) 2022: (13/13) 315-469 67.2 3,708 28 5 72 182 2.5 6 Hula Bowl MVP; NFLPA Collegiate Bowl MVP; Bowl game MVP Total: (55/50) 1,127-1,857 60.7 13,938 97 37 469 1,446 3.1 25 HT WT ARM HAND WING 40-YD 20-YD 10-YD VJ BJ SS 3C BP COMBINE N/A (not invited) PRO DAY 6031 227 31 3/4 9 5/8 74 7/8 4.90 2.89 1.77 28 9’3” 4.53 7.21 - SUMMARY: Holton Ahlers (AYE-lurrs), the youngest of four brothers, was born and raised in Greenville. He was a three-sport standout and four-year starting quarterback in high school, and he finished No. 2 in state history in total offense. A three-star recruit, Ahlers had offers from Florida and Georgia but wanted to stay close to home and picked East Carolina over NC State. He leaves ECU as the school’s all-time record holder in several categories, including passing yards (also an AAC record) and touchdowns responsible for. Ahlers is a competitive, sturdy passer willing to hang tough and make throws from a muddy pocket. A left-handed passer, his release is a tad mechanical and inconsistent delivery balance alters his accuracy. Overall, Ahlers efficiently works through his reads and plays with with the aggressive confidence to push the ball downfield, but continued improvements with his footwork and ball placement are vital for him to stick in the NFL. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVM Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 36 minutes ago, mphtrilogy said: a snapshot from The Beast from Dane, love this quote: Ahlers also did this often working behind an atrocious oline and battling some incredibly stale play calling. He's a project but he can ball, has an incredible arm and reads the field well - tough to take down, too. The hits on him are right - he gets happy feet really bad and the accuracy can be hit or miss. He's had to do too much at times and some of his best passes didn't get a pay off due to tragically bad hands from the pass catchers at times. Only one or two guys that ever really had a lot of promise. He's a great flier late in the draft and is a much better use of a roster spot than a Streveler type. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 2 hours ago, mrcoops said: With a name like Stetson, he's almost a cert to go to Houston or Dallas. Will be loved by the fans, and make millions for himself and the team, even if he never sees the field. Bennett could be in a competition with Zach this season or even in the future if Rodgers comes aboard. If Zach turns out to be a dud long term and Bennett is a player. We might even see it this pre-season if a QB like a Bennett gets a chance to play and with Zach no improvement. I think Zach has an NFL future but it's not 100% with him after two seasons of starting. Some guys can come right in and play well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extmenace Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 Once you start getting into the later rounds, everyone is a developmental player outside of maybe the running back position. When the pick is up, and if the best player on their board is a qb, I’d have no issues with the team using the pick there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Jetluv58 said: Wasn’t Brady a sixth rounder? So was Brooks Bollinger and a hundred more like him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 2 hours ago, T0mShane said: You know what the *perfect* spot for Richardson would be (imo)? Let the Giants come up to 10 or so and take a shot on him. Richardson with Daboll, who uses the QB run game and has experience molding athletic projects? I think Detroit is better. They've got an offensive line in place, dramatically better skill talent, and still have a creative offensive coaching staff. Goff isn't going to lose them games the way Jones might if he goes off a cliff, so Lions should be able to give him as much time as he needs and I don't know if that's the case for the Lions. And on top of the talent distinction, they don't have to give up significant draft capital to go get him. Giants would almost certainly need to give up a future #1 to go up to around 10 for a QB. Daboll is a nice feather in the Giants' cap, but it's kind of Daboll and Andrew Thomas and that's it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 39 minutes ago, derp said: I think Detroit is better. They've got an offensive line in place, dramatically better skill talent, and still have a creative offensive coaching staff. Goff isn't going to lose them games the way Jones might if he goes off a cliff, so Lions should be able to give him as much time as he needs and I don't know if that's the case for the Lions. And on top of the talent distinction, they don't have to give up significant draft capital to go get him. Giants would almost certainly need to give up a future #1 to go up to around 10 for a QB. Daboll is a nice feather in the Giants' cap, but it's kind of Daboll and Andrew Thomas and that's it. Eh. Campbell was legitimately on the hot seat halfway through last season and they’ll likely lose Ben Johnson this coming offseason. That team was 5th in points scored, but 28th in points given up. I know Goff is meh, but drafting Richardson there is a dicey move because they could be drafting him for the next coaching staff. Interestingly, both the Giants and Lions interviewed Richardson at the Combine, but nothing since, and both teams have had Hooker in for top 30’s. Going to be an interesting draft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 1 hour ago, T0mShane said: Eh. Campbell was legitimately on the hot seat halfway through last season and they’ll likely lose Ben Johnson this coming offseason. That team was 5th in points scored, but 28th in points given up. I know Goff is meh, but drafting Richardson there is a dicey move because they could be drafting him for the next coaching staff. Interestingly, both the Giants and Lions interviewed Richardson at the Combine, but nothing since, and both teams have had Hooker in for top 30’s. Going to be an interesting draft. Campbell’s done a good job with coaching staff hiring. If Johnson isn’t a complete brain drain, they’ll be fine. And if he’s getting hired somewhere then they will have done well. I suppose it’s a bit of a projection but I think that franchise is headed in the right direction, especially when you consider the assets at their disposal, Williams will be health this year, they’ve added on defense, etc. Daboll is solid for sure, I just think they’d have to give up too much to get Richardson to be able to support him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 7 hours ago, T0mShane said: I realize that I’m old and the league scouts QB differently now, but I get the super-shakes whenever someone says that all they need to do is fix the QBs “mechanics” and he’ll be a stud. Particularly as it pertains to Richardson, where so much of the draft bro stuff has been “ignore the stats! Ignore 98% of the #tape! Look at this gif where he manipulates the safety with his eyes (before throwing the ball three yards out of bounds)!” Yeah. Josh Allen is going to get a lot of GMs fired. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flea Flicking Frank Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 who give a sh*t what we use Rd 6 picks on, but serious question, has a QB every been drafted after round say 3 to a team with a HC/OC with zero pedigree of developing a QB, that has ever amounted to something for the team that drafted them? Im sure its happened, but I don't recall it. If you can't identify and develop a day 1/2 QB, what makes anyone think we can develop a day 3 QB? But again, who gives a crap what we do with Rd 6 picks, if they had a lingerie model available in the draft, Id say go for her in Rd 6, maybe even 4 or 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 1 hour ago, dbatesman said: Yeah. Josh Allen is going to get a lot of GMs fired. Going to get a bunch of promising QB prospects overdrafted and chewed up, too 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 From Dane Brugler’s seven round mock today. My guy AOC is on the rise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouserJet Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 The premise of bringing in a development project at QB sounds fantastic. However, I've also seen the Jets butcher many a QB in our time, I have zero confidence we will get it right ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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