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PFF final '22 QB ratings


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20 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Giving up 2 2nd round picks and $60mm for one year of the 17th best QB, at 40 years old and expecting him to get better.  Doing this all with a bottom 10 offensive roster.

Brilliant move.

 

 

 

It would be if those were the facts.  
 

I like my narrative better!

Buying low on a 39 year old QB coming off an injury plagued season without a true #1 WR and a rookie #2 AFTER winning back to back MVPs with our current Offensive Coordinator for what likely will be a 2nd round pick this year, a conditional incentive based pick in 2024 that has a payback provision for retirement after 1 year, and a much lower dead cap hit due to a combination of GB eating some money and Rodgers restructuring his deal.

******* brilliant!!

 

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33 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

It would be if those were the facts.  
 

I like my narrative better!

Buying low on a 39 year old QB coming off an injury plagued season without a true #1 WR and a rookie #2 AFTER winning back to back MVPs with our current Offensive Coordinator for what likely will be a 2nd round pick this year, a conditional incentive based pick in 2024 that has a payback provision for retirement after 1 year, and a much lower dead cap hit due to a combination of GB eating some money and Rodgers restructuring his deal.

******* brilliant!!

 

What's more likely?

1) a 39 year old HOF QB - had his worst year as pro, who ranked as the 17th best QB in the league will get better at 40 and play at top 5 QB level - and carry the team to the Super Bowl?

2) a 39 year old HOF QB - had his worst year as a pro, who ranked as the 17th best QB in the league will continue to decline at age 40 - around a sub par NFL Roster? and, at best, lose in the wild card round of the playoffs?

 

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

What's more likely?

1) a 39 year old HOF QB - had his worst year as pro, who ranked as the 17th best QB in the league will get better at 40 and play at top 5 QB level - and carry the team to the Super Bowl?

2) a 39 year old HOF QB - had his worst year as a pro, who ranked as the 17th best QB in the league will continue to decline at age 40 - around a sub par NFL Roster? and, at best, lose in the wild card round of the playoffs?

 

I believe it’s a bold 2 year bet.  1 year only if the Jets make the Super Bowl this upcoming season, the main reason Rodgers would sail off into the sunset.

I’ll be as disappointed as you Fidelio if we don’t have draft protection in the event he retires early w/o a Suoer bowl appearance AND if we don’t reduce his dead money cap hit.

I feel the Jets have the leverage because the draft (which GB values) comes before the date the Jets would need Rodgers.

The leverage here is timing related, not who needs what more.

JD has mapped this out perfectly and I expect him to earn some significant concessions, possibly from Rodgers himself.

I see no signs of desperation, only an attempt to continue to balance short & long term.  See OBJ as a prime example.

Step 1 (achieved):  anticipate GB’s decision to move forward w/ Love + Rodgers’ market & motivations

Step 2 (achieved):  hire Hackett, who as GB’s OC gave Rodgers more freedom to operate within the offense, leading to 2 MVPs and 2 NFC Championship games in 3 seasons

Step 3 (achieved):  convince Rodgers to play for the holy grail of Championships, elevating his legacy and showering him with money & adoration if successful.  Another way he can 1 up Favre

Step 4 (half achieved):  bring in Lazard & make a legit run at OBJ.  Continue to upgrade the WR position 

Step 5 (achieved):  move GB’s GM off the requirement of a 2023 first round pick

Step 6 (achieved):  get drunk at Jets event and calmly assure the Jets faithful to sleep well at night 

Step 7 (in progress):  wait patiently for his counterpart’s phone call on draft day to concede to Douglas final offer

That’s how you play poker!

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2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Giving up 2 2nd round picks and $60mm for one year of the 17th best QB, at 40 years old and expecting him to get better.  Doing this all with a bottom 10 offensive roster.

Brilliant move.

Drafting an all-time-level historic QB bust sadly leads to desperate moves by a front office trying to save their jobs.

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9 hours ago, Warfish said:

Drafting an all-time-level historic QB bust sadly leads to desperate moves by a front office trying to save their jobs.

Nah.

Yes.  Drafting Zach threw the rebuild off course - but there were other options - it seems like they'll handles this very poorly...Two options that seemed obvious.

1) Sign Carr for a reasonable price, no draft comp and continue with JD's plan.  You've essentially replaced Wilson with Carr and have three years to find his placement - while you continue to build in a safe, consistent and smart way.

2) Trade for Rodgers, give up a good amount of draft comp and huge salary for a one year rental.  But go ALL IN.  Mortgage the future and go for it.  Truly make an attempt to win a Super Bowl.

I would be fine with either course - what the Jets actually did was #2 with the QB, but #1 with the rest of the plan.  Essentially spending the big time comp and cash - while not building the roster to make a legitimate run.

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12 hours ago, Beerfish said:

RODGERS IS WORSE THAN ANDY DALTON!

 

 

                                           Rodgers is way  over rated. Two years ago

when they gave him an undeserved MVP, that should have gone to

Allen he played a game against Brady where both QBs had multiple INTs.

Old Man Brady ended the game with the only good drive of the game

Any game he plays against Mahomes, Allen, Burrows we should be

a significant  underdog

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13 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Giving up 2 2nd round picks and $60mm for one year of the 17th best QB, at 40 years old and expecting him to get better.  Doing this all with a bottom 10 offensive roster.

Brilliant move.

 

 

 

I think it’s more a matter of him playing better than last year than getting better. I mean how much better could he get before last year? Least he ain’t got no chil-rens running around his house like Flacco does  telling him,”Daddy you suck!” . Just mostly you and @bitonti here. I’m more worried about his desire to play as appose to his ability and durability. 

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55 minutes ago, hmhertz said:

                                           Rodgers is way  over rated. Two years ago

when they gave him an undeserved MVP, that should have gone to

Allen he played a game against Brady where both QBs had multiple INTs.

Old Man Brady ended the game with the only good drive of the game

Any game he plays against Mahomes, Allen, Burrows we should be

a significant  underdog

Mahomes absolutely but he’s the best in the game so that will go for every other QB in the league as well. Allen seem to inherit the Buffalo Bills post season Blues, kids great but has plenty of head scratcher games and unless the Bills give him more than Diggs on offense it’s likely to continue. Burrow is going to a great one but I’d put that down as a 50/50 game considering he  has to play our defense at the same time. 

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8 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

I think it’s more a matter of him playing better than last year than getting better. I mean how much better could he get before last year? Least he ain’t got no chil-rens running around his house like Flacco does  telling him,”Daddy you suck!” . Just mostly you and @bitonti here. I’m more worried about his desire to play as appose to his ability and durability. 

I don't expect a 40 year old to get better. In almost every scenario I've ever seen when an athlete begins to show decline due to age it only gets worse - and exponentially worse.

With that said I was good with this move for two reasons.

1) There were some mitigating circumstance to hang your hat on - finger injury and lack of talent on GB - so there was some reason for optimism to believe Rodgers can buck that trend.

AND

I was under the impression the Jets were going to go ALL-IN to build a superior roster around Rodgers, giving AR the best chance to flourish.  Unless we see some drastic changes from JD - it's clear that's not the plan.  

Which makes the Rodgers move inexplicable.  

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Nah.

Yes.  Drafting Zach threw the rebuild off course - but there were other options

Using the #2 overall pick on a historic-level QB bust does more harm than just a little "off course", lol.

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

- it seems like they'll handles this very poorly...Two options that seemed obvious.

1) Sign Carr for a reasonable price, no draft comp and continue with JD's plan.  You've essentially replaced Wilson with Carr and have three years to find his placement - while you continue to build in a safe, consistent and smart way.

2) Trade for Rodgers, give up a good amount of draft comp and huge salary for a one year rental.  But go ALL IN.  Mortgage the future and go for it.  Truly make an attempt to win a Super Bowl.

I would be fine with either course - what the Jets actually did was #2 with the QB, but #1 with the rest of the plan.  Essentially spending the big time comp and cash - while not building the roster to make a legitimate run.

Well option one's ship has sailed, it's off the table now.

And you've expressed a few times a desire to see the Rodgers trade not happen, seemingly out of frustration waiting for a formal announcement that it's happened more than the player (given what you say above).

So what then?

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13 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Using the #2 overall pick on a historic-level QB bust does more harm than just a little "off course", lol.

Well option one's ship has sailed, it's off the table now.

And you've expressed a few times a desire to see the Rodgers trade not happen, seemingly out of frustration waiting for a formal announcement that it's happened more than the player (given what you say above).

So what then?

Actually I'm not frustrated with the Rodgers trade not happening yet, plenty patient when it comes to that.  I have almost no doubt he'll be a Jet and happy to wait to get the best deal.  There is literally nothing I said above that indicated I was frustrated with the timing of the trade.  

My frustration lies with the lack of action on building the roster around him - for this one year run. 

If you're giving up this haul (picks and comp) for a one year rental - then you need to be all in.  Bargain shopping shouldn't be on the table.  It's not really complicated of a concept.  The ship may have sailed on what needed to be done - but he should have gotten the big talent in house.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Actually I'm not frustrated with the Rodgers trade not happening yet, plenty patient when it comes to that.  I have almost no doubt he'll be a Jet and happy to wait to get the best deal.  There is literally nothing I said above that indicated I was frustrated with the timing of the trade.  

My frustration lies with the lack of action on building the roster around him - for this one year run. 

If you're giving up this haul (picks and comp) for a one year rental - then you need to be all in.  Bargain shopping shouldn't be on the table.  It's not really complicated of a concept.  The ship may have sailed on what needed to be done - but he should have gotten the big talent in house.

Your recent posting very much gives the vibe of someone against the Rodgers trade idea, and someone who is waning on supporting it at all.

i.e.:

Quote

I'm almost at the point I don't want to give up 2 2's and $60mm a year - with the current O roster. This isn't even close to a championship caliber roster. If JD isn't really going to take a shot at winning it all this year then why bother with a move like this?

I went back and re-read several of your recent posts, to make sure I wasn't thinking of someone else or misunderstanding, but you have quite a few recently saying Rodgers is old and in decline and not worth it because he's likely to continue to decline and unlikely to play well, and that our roster isn't good enough (a point I agree with, for the record, as of right now, today).

So if you're not against the trade, you may want to think about how you're presenting your arguments, because reading them it's very hard to see any support for  trade in what you're saying.

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Your recent posting very much gives the vibe of someone against the Rodgers trade idea, and someone who is waning on supporting it at all.

i.e.:

I went back and re-read several of your recent posts, to make sure I wasn't thinking of someone else or misunderstanding, but you have quite a few recently saying Rodgers is old and in decline and not worth it because he's likely to continue to decline and unlikely to play well, and that our roster isn't good enough (a point I agree with, for the record, as of right now, today).

So if you're not against the trade, you may want to think about how you're presenting your arguments, because reading them it's very hard to see any support for  trade in what you're saying.

You pointed out my concern was that the trade was taking too long to get done.   I am not concerned with that aspect of it.  It's happening.  There's pretty much nothing to stop that.  No concern or rush for that.

I was even on board with trading for Rodgers when I, wrongly assumed, JD would be going all in to build a supporting cast around him.  So yes, an aging Rodgers surrounded by potent offensive talent can find a way.  If Rodgers can just be a piece of the puzzle - That's been shown to work in the past.

An aging vet on a sh*tty offensive roster is setting the QB and team up for disaster.

Let me try it again to make it even simpler to understand....

1) Rodgers will be a Jet and I have no rush for him to get here - it'll happen.

2) Rodgers with a strong supporting cast can succeed  - In this scenario I was for the move.

3) I was expecting JD to build a strong supporting cast around him (overpaying when necessary to do so) but since that's clearly not the case - then trading for Rodgers is a terrible idea.   Up until he let OBJ walk I was still holding out hope that his plan was to be aggressive and "Go For It".   

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6 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Once again we would have been better off just sticking with Darnold and taking DeVonta Smith or Ja'Marr Chase

 

And even better off trading Darnold and drafting chase. Then rolling with a journeyman.

It was not a Zach versus Darnold binary choice.

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12 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You pointed out my concern was that the trade was taking too long to get done.   I am not concerned with that aspect of it.  It's happening.  There's pretty much nothing to stop that.  No concern or rush for that.

I was even on board with trading for Rodgers when I, wrongly assumed, JD would be going all in to build a supporting cast around him.  So yes, an aging Rodgers surrounded by potent offensive talent can find a way.  If Rodgers can just be a piece of the puzzle - That's been shown to work in the past.

An aging vet on a sh*tty offensive roster is setting the QB and team up for disaster.

Let me try it again to make it even simpler to understand....

1) Rodgers will be a Jet and I have no rush for him to get here - it'll happen.

2) Rodgers with a strong supporting cast can succeed  - In this scenario I was for the move.

3) I was expecting JD to build a strong supporting cast around him (overpaying when necessary to do so) but since that's clearly not the case - then trading for Rodgers is a terrible idea.   Up until he let OBJ walk I was still holding out hope that his plan was to be aggressive and "Go For It".   

Seriously,  losing out on OBJ is what made you give up on the deal?

The Big Lebowski Dude GIF

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16 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Let me try it again to make it even simpler to understand....

1) Rodgers will be a Jet and I have no rush for him to get here - it'll happen.

2) Rodgers with a strong supporting cast can succeed  - In this scenario I was for the move.

3) I was expecting JD to build a strong supporting cast around him (overpaying when necessary to do so) but since that's clearly not the case - then trading for Rodgers is a terrible idea.   Up until he let OBJ walk I was still holding out hope that his plan was to be aggressive and "Go For It".   

So given all this, your position is "trading for Rodgers is a terrible idea" because JD is failing to make other vital easy-to-make moves, and drafting Zach #2 overall was only a minor setback, easily overcome if (again) JD made some easy-to-make moves.

Got it.  Appreciate your replies today, thanks.

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30 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You pointed out my concern was that the trade was taking too long to get done.   I am not concerned with that aspect of it.  It's happening.  There's pretty much nothing to stop that.  No concern or rush for that.

I was even on board with trading for Rodgers when I, wrongly assumed, JD would be going all in to build a supporting cast around him.  So yes, an aging Rodgers surrounded by potent offensive talent can find a way.  If Rodgers can just be a piece of the puzzle - That's been shown to work in the past.

An aging vet on a sh*tty offensive roster is setting the QB and team up for disaster.

Let me try it again to make it even simpler to understand....

1) Rodgers will be a Jet and I have no rush for him to get here - it'll happen.

2) Rodgers with a strong supporting cast can succeed  - In this scenario I was for the move.

3) I was expecting JD to build a strong supporting cast around him (overpaying when necessary to do so) but since that's clearly not the case - then trading for Rodgers is a terrible idea.   Up until he let OBJ walk I was still holding out hope that his plan was to be aggressive and "Go For It".   

Item 3 is ridiculous.  There is every indication that they still expect to "go for it."  Paying OBJ $18M is possibly the dumbest thing that I have heard in recent years.  The idea we should have topped that?  Beyond ludicrous.  There is plenty of money to spend and plenty of places to spend it.  There will be plenty more cap casualties.  You wouldn't rather have Hopkins?  

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17 minutes ago, jgb said:

And even better off trading Darnold and drafting chase. Then rolling with a journeyman.

It was not a Zach versus Darnold binary choice.

I think it was. I don't think we would not have selected Zach and still traded our only starting QB but it really makes no difference. I was just in the camp to keep Darnold and get some talent aroind him. Instead we took a guy and surrounded him with talent and he sucked even worse that the guy we had. 

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38 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Do you expect Rodgers injured thumb to be chronic?

I'm just not sure I buy the injured thumb as an excuse though - I'm sure it was injured but how much negative impact did it really have?

I don't think any of us know.  I surely hope it was a lot and he looks like MVP form from 2 years ago.

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