Jump to content

PFF final '22 QB ratings


Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm just not sure I buy the injured thumb as an excuse though - I'm sure it was injured but how much negative impact did it really have?

I don't think any of us know.  I surely hope it was a lot and he looks like MVP form from 2 years ago.

You have to be kidding.  Try gripping a football without pressing down hard with your thumb. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Seriously,  losing out on OBJ is what made you give up on the deal?

The Big Lebowski Dude GIF

No, I knew this would come up.

Not losing out on OBJ specifically - but more that I've resigned myself to the belief that JD does not see the urgency of this one year Rodgers rental.  That's he's not really going all in, that's this off-season is being treated like any other.

The OBJ miss was just the clarify action to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So given all this, your position is "trading for Rodgers is a terrible idea" because JD is failing to make other vital easy-to-make moves, and drafting Zach #2 overall was only a minor setback, easily overcome if (again) JD made some easy-to-make moves.

Got it.  Appreciate your replies today, thanks.

Why are you still bringing this back to Zach?  Zach is in the past.  He missed.  It happened.  I know you love to attack ZW, but it's over now. And has nothing to do with this conversation.  

Otherwise yes.  Trading for Rodgers is a bad idea if you're putting him out there with a bottom 10 offensive roster.

Usually I like you, but you seem really angry about this.  Not sure why exactly.  I was excited for Rodgers if the Jets were going to build an O around him.  It's now become clear to me that's not the plan - so I'm not happy about it.

That is all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Item 3 is ridiculous.  There is every indication that they still expect to "go for it."  Paying OBJ $18M is possibly the dumbest thing that I have heard in recent years.  The idea we should have topped that?  Beyond ludicrous.  There is plenty of money to spend and plenty of places to spend it.  There will be plenty more cap casualties.  You wouldn't rather have Hopkins?  

I don't think #3 it's ridiculous at all.  You are right, maybe Joe gets DHop (would absolutely prefer him to OBJ) maybe Joe trades for all pro-bowl caliber RT, maybe he find a center better the McGovern.  So maybe after being conservative the first half of FA's he's all of a sudden going to wildly aggressive.  But based on the way he's gone about his business this off-season I just don't see it happening.  

As an example.  Like the move or not - OBJ was their target, I think that was clear.  And they likely were prepared to spend close to what Baltimore was offering (otherwise Balt. wouldn't have gone that high) Lets's say Joe was willing to spend many $12mm guaranteed instead of $15mm - so they clearly liked him a lot - but walked away over $3mm.  That, to me, doesn't represent a GM that's planning to make a legitimate run.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I don't think #3 it's ridiculous at all.  You are right, maybe Joe gets DHop (would absolutely prefer him to OBJ) maybe Joe trades for all pro-bowl caliber RT, maybe he find a center better the McGovern.  So maybe after being conservative the first half of FA's he's all of a sudden going to wildly aggressive.  But based on the way he's gone about his business this off-season I just don't see it happening.  

As an example.  Like the move or not - OBJ was their target, I think that was clear.  And they likely were prepared to spend close to what Baltimore was offering (otherwise Balt. wouldn't have gone that high) Lets's say Joe was willing to spend many $12mm guaranteed instead of $15mm - so they clearly liked him a lot - but walked away over $3mm.  That, to me, doesn't represent a GM that's planning to make a legitimate run.

To me it represents a GM that should not be getting fitted for a straight jacket.  

I agree that blindly praising their moves by being patient doesn't make much sense.  We don't know where this team will end up.  If you wanted Rodgers, things are playing out the way they probably should.  Wait and get the best deal.  Prep for the draft and have a bunch of FAs in and give them offers they can accept after the draft/Rodgers comes in.  When Rodgers comes in there is going to be a bunch of contract wrangling.  There are guys people here swore were gone that are still here - Davis, Lawson, Whitehead - the team is actually stronger right now than I expected it to be at this point.  Baltimore did not even let OBJ come here.  I don't know that they had that concrete an idea of what the Jets would offer,  They blew him out of the water and I feel like we dodged a bullet.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

No, I knew this would come up.

Not losing out on OBJ specifically - but more that I've resigned myself to the belief that JD does not see the urgency of this one year Rodgers rental.  That's he's not really going all in, that's this off-season is being treated like any other.

The OBJ miss was just the clarify action to me.

OBJ is the guy you should be worried about being in decline. I was happy he went to the Ravens and not us. There will be better options at WR. FA is far from over and trades can still happen after the draft. I don't  think JD is in a hurry to make deals to please the fan base. I actually thought getting Lazzard was an excellent pickup even if Rogers doesn't come. Having Davis , Wilson, and Lazzard as your top 3 is pretty good. I would like to see the Jets pick up an insurance policy RB  but other than that, ai think the O will be fine as constructed except for OL depth. I also think we will draft more OL and probably trade or aquire more. We really just need a G or C mostly and a swing tackle. The defense actually needs more help than the O. We need a starting S, we need more pass rushers, and we need a middle LB to take over for when Mosley is gone after this season. Everyone is hoping Johnson or Clemons  solve the pass rushing issue. I think that is being hopeful. It is possible but doubtful. Johnson has flashed but he is more likely to be Calvin Pace than TJ Watt. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Having Davis , Wilson, and Lazzard as your top 3 is pretty good

4 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

ai think the O will be fine as constructed except for OL depth.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

A "pretty good" WR group and an OL that "will be fine"

It's simply not good enough to win it all with a declining 40 year old QB on a one year rental.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

A "pretty good" WR group and an OL that "will be fine"

It's simply not good enough to win it all with a declining 40 year old QB on a one year rental.

 

We are going to go as far as Rodgers takes us. Our WR's are not that much worse than Cincinnati ( the difference is really Higgins, not Chase).  I expect Wilson to take a major step forward this season and Davis not being the #1 is going to make him much better. Lazard will be a great third option and Rodgers loves to get the ball to him. The guy also van block. Don't forget the TE's. Uzomah is going to be the man. Rogers likes to throw to his TE's. Hall also will be heavily involved  in the pass game. Rodgers is going to have more than enough targets. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

I think it was. I don't think we would not have selected Zach and still traded our only starting QB but it really makes no difference. I was just in the camp to keep Darnold and get some talent aroind him. Instead we took a guy and surrounded him with talent and he sucked even worse that the guy we had. 

Darnold sucks too, however. That trade gave us Breece and others.

Keeping him is a 9 out of 10 on dumb meter. 

Drafting Zach was 10 out of 10.

So yes, keeping Darnold and forgoing the trade value to have him for remaining one year of his contract, less dumb than drafting air-brushed Jimmy Clausen, but still super dumb.

The correct move was trade Darnold and don't draft the biggest NFL QB bust this millenium.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, jgb said:

Darnold sucks too, however. That trade gave us Breece and others.

Keeping him is a 9 out of 10 on dumb meter. 

Drafting Zach was 10 out of 10.

So yes, keeping Darnold and forgoing the trade value to have him for remaining one year of his contract, less dumb than drafting air-brushed Jimmy Clausen, but still super dumb.

The correct move was trade Darnold and don't draft the biggest NFL QB bust this millenium.

Darnold doesn't suck. What was wrong with him is where he was drafted. Darnold is just below average which in the NFL is sucky. You want to see suck, Wilson and Mayfield. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, More Cowbell said:

Darnold doesn't suck. What was wrong with him is where he was drafted. Darnold is just below average which in the NFL is sucky. You want to see suck, Wilson and Mayfield. 

Even giving you that, you haven't explained why we either had to reject Panther's obscenely generous trade package or draft Zach. As if there was no other options. While I, and others, posted better choices at the time, that have been borne out by, you know, what has happened since.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

We are going to go as far as Rodgers takes us

I think this is the fundamental difference between the way we see it...

Me: Rodgers shouldn't be expected to carry a team anymore.  While probably an upgrade over Carr.  At his age and clear decline he's shouldn't be expected to play at top 5 level.  Now, if you put high tier talent around him - he can thrive.

You: Rodgers is still a HOF level QB where "Fine" and "Pretty Good" are enough because he's capable of carrying a team.

This seems to be why you're not concerned and I am....

You can surely be right, I hope you are - that would be amazing.  I just feel differently.

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

2 seasons has made your decision..... despite Zach's remaining 1-10 years of possible play?

My decision on Zach has absolutely been made. As have the Jets. He will not be a contributing QB during his rookie contract. That's a draft bust even if he somehow becomes a FQB later in his career.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, jgb said:

Even giving you that, you haven't explained why we either had to reject Panther's obscenely generous trade package or draft Zach. As if there was no other options. While I, and others, posted better choices at the time, that have been borne out by, you know, what has happened since.

What I am saying is new CS with no experience had they not chosen to draft Zach, commons sense would dictate to keep some resemblance of stability. Also I believe Darnold was shopped. I don't  believe the Panthers just came sniffing around with that offer. It's  just my opinion. It certainly  could have gone your way had they not chosen to take Zach. I just really doubt rolling with Bridgewater who was probably the vet option we would have ended up with would have flown with anyone. There was still potential with Darnold given the utter garbage he played with. I also don't think Darnold was so bad on Carolina. He wasn't  that good either but a Hell of a lot better than Zach. We probably would have made the playoffs with him if he could stayed healthy. That is how much better than Zach he was. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I think this is the fundamental difference between the way we see it...

Me: Rodgers shouldn't be expected to carry a team anymore.  While probably an upgrade over Carr.  At his age and clear decline he's shouldn't be expected to play at top 5 level.  Now, if you put high tier talent around him - he can thrive.

You: Rodgers is still a HOF level QB where "Fine" and "Pretty Good" are enough because he's capable of carrying a team.

This seems to be why you're not concerned and I am....

You can surely be right, I hope you are - that would be amazing.  I just feel differently.

 

I also think the talent onnO is better than you're giving it credit for. You know, the parts of my post you don't  want to address 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I also think the talent onnO is better than you're giving it credit for. You know, the parts of my post you don't  want to address 

I think Garret Wilson is a legit #1 (Probably 20th or so best WR in the league)

I think Breece Hall is a year away from being good (can be top 5 in 2024)

I think AVT is good (if healthy can be the best G in the NFL)

I think Lazard is good #3 WR

After that I see very little talent above and beyond the JAG level.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Why are you still bringing this back to Zach?  Zach is in the past.

I think it's odd to describe our #2 QB as "the past".

Also, you might want to get used to hearing Zach raised when you're involved.  People still rib me over Patrick Ramsey, people rib Bitonti over Robertson, and neither of us were as all-in on them as you were on Zach Wilson.

You're not being treated differently, you're being treated like many of us are whove been here a while. :)

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

And has nothing to do with this conversation.  

How we got here has everything to do with now.

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Otherwise yes.  Trading for Rodgers is a bad idea if you're putting him out there with a bottom 10 offensive roster.

And you have been clear you think the roster is not good enough, yes.  I understand.

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Usually I like you, but you seem really angry about this.  Not sure why exactly.

You're mistaken, there isn't even an ounce of anger in my over this thread/exchange :) 

Asking for clarity, so I can understand the full breadth of a viewpoint, is something I do often.

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

 I was excited for Rodgers if the Jets were going to build an O around him.  It's now become clear to me that's not the plan - so I'm not happy about it.

That is all.

I think you're being very clear here.

I don't agree with the "not the plan to build an O around him" point, but that's a separate conversation.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

What I am saying is new CS with no experience had they not chosen to draft Zach, commons sense would dictate to keep some resemblance of stability. Also I believe Darnold was shopped. I don't  believe the Panthers just came sniffing around with that offer. It's  just my opinion. It certainly  could have gone your way had they not chosen to take Zach. I just really doubt rolling with Bridgewater who was probably the vet option we would have ended up with would have flown with anyone. There was still potential with Darnold given the utter garbage he played with. I also don't think Darnold was so bad on Carolina. He wasn't  that good either but a Hell of a lot better than Zach. We probably would have made the playoffs with him if he could stayed healthy. That is how much better than Zach he was. 

Problem is Darnold was on final year of his deal (the Panther's idiotic decision to pick up option sight-unseen notwithstanding). It made no sense to not shop him if JD sniffed we could get what we did in trade.

You say going with Bridge (or similar) "wouldn't have flown with anyone." Would've flown a hellva lot further than whiffing on the horrible Zach.

If we are pushing the narrative to it's end -- JD should've traded Darnold and accepted the Niner's pick swap package. It's fair to say JD did not choose wisely in this situation.

And I like JD. But it's also fair to call out his mistakes. This was basically his mulligan as GM of the NYJ. He won't survive another like this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Nah.

Yes.  Drafting Zach threw the rebuild off course - but there were other options - it seems like they'll handles this very poorly...Two options that seemed obvious.

1) Sign Carr for a reasonable price, no draft comp and continue with JD's plan.  You've essentially replaced Wilson with Carr and have three years to find his placement - while you continue to build in a safe, consistent and smart way.

2) Trade for Rodgers, give up a good amount of draft comp and huge salary for a one year rental.  But go ALL IN.  Mortgage the future and go for it.  Truly make an attempt to win a Super Bowl.

I would be fine with either course - what the Jets actually did was #2 with the QB, but #1 with the rest of the plan.  Essentially spending the big time comp and cash - while not building the roster to make a legitimate run.

Fair point on #2 but it is still early, no?

How excited would you be if we traded a 5th for Hopkins?

You keep mentioning a 1 year rental as if this is fact.  I think the odds are much more likely it's a 2 year rental, unless Rodgers gets to a SB in year 1.  He has another $50M option next year.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I think Garret Wilson is a legit #1 (Probably 20th or so best WR in the league)

I think Breece Hall is a year away from being good (can be top 5 in 2024)

I think AVT is good (if healthy can be the best G in the NFL)

I think Lazard is good #3 WR

After that I see very little talent above and beyond the JAG level.

You'd be amazed what a competent QB does for this offense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm just not sure I buy the injured thumb as an excuse though - I'm sure it was injured but how much negative impact did it really have?

I don't think any of us know.  I surely hope it was a lot and he looks like MVP form from 2 years ago.

I think trading away his best receiver didn’t help. If we can put Hopkins and next to G Wilson I think Rodgers has potential to become top 15. Nice!!!!

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

It feels like we're gonna find out.

But I don't believe competent QB is enough to make a legitimate run at a Super Bowl with this offense.  But I sure hope I'm wrong.

You’d rather the Jets fail and be right on a messageboard than to see the QB succeed!!!!

Sorry, couldn’t resist lol.

We good.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I think this is the fundamental difference between the way we see it...

Me: Rodgers shouldn't be expected to carry a team anymore.  While probably an upgrade over Carr.  At his age and clear decline he's shouldn't be expected to play at top 5 level.  Now, if you put high tier talent around him - he can thrive.

You: Rodgers is still a HOF level QB where "Fine" and "Pretty Good" are enough because he's capable of carrying a team.

This seems to be why you're not concerned and I am....

You can surely be right, I hope you are - that would be amazing.  I just feel differently.

 

Yeah, you do feel differently. You don’t think Zach failed. You think the Jets failed him. You think QBs are basically victims (or beneficiaries) of their situation. Despite every GM disagreeing and paying even average QBs a huge percentage of the salary cap and year after year over-reaching for the in the draft. Look, I know you still hope to be right about Zach, but dude was incompetent last season. QBs are not flotsam on the tide of their surrounding talent. Good QBs make their own weaponz, not the other way around.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

It feels like we're gonna find out.

But I don't believe competent QB is enough to make a legitimate run at a Super Bowl with this offense.  But I sure hope I'm wrong.

Rodgers was mediocre at best last year. He had some nagging injuries and did not have great talent around him.

This year, he will be one year older, so one can expect the nagging injuries to continue if not get worse. We have some receivers but not much else, Right now. 

I'd rather watch Rodgers for this  year than any other QB but the expectation that this is a SB team is insane, and more deeply rooted in absurd Wilson hate than anything.

It was like turning Mike White into some great QB, until he sucked. It was more about ZW than it was mIke white.

The best case for this team is to hope to squeak out a 6th seed this year, which they should have done last year given their start. You don't give up big draft capital for that.

 

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

OBJ is the guy you should be worried about being in decline. I was happy he went to the Ravens and not us. There will be better options at WR. FA is far from over and trades can still happen after the draft. I don't  think JD is in a hurry to make deals to please the fan base. I actually thought getting Lazzard was an excellent pickup even if Rogers doesn't come. Having Davis , Wilson, and Lazzard as your top 3 is pretty good. I would like to see the Jets pick up an insurance policy RB  but other than that, ai think the O will be fine as constructed except for OL depth. I also think we will draft more OL and probably trade or aquire more. We really just need a G or C mostly and a swing tackle. The defense actually needs more help than the O. We need a starting S, we need more pass rushers, and we need a middle LB to take over for when Mosley is gone after this season. Everyone is hoping Johnson or Clemons  solve the pass rushing issue. I think that is being hopeful. It is possible but doubtful. Johnson has flashed but he is more likely to be Calvin Pace than TJ Watt. 

More pass rushers?  They have Lawson, JFM, Huff, Johnson and Clemons.  I am literally unsure if they can carry another one.  I get they aren't the sack exchange, but they were fine.  The defense was good in 2022.  There is absolutely no reason to think they will be worse in 2023 beyond likelihood of injury and general regression.  Who did they lose?  Rankins, Shepherd and Joyner.  Seriously?  Rankins is the only one that you can even argue is better than a JAG.  Joyner is still on the street and, like Vinny Curry, can probably be signed whenever we want.  The actually upgraded at S with Clark over Joyner.  I get Joyner is more "free" safety/nickel CB, but MCII fills his role pretty well.  I can't see worrying about 2024 MLB until we have things straight.  It may be Sherwood, it may be a 2023 or 2024 draft pick.  None of that is important right now.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, jgb said:

Yeah, you do feel differently. You don’t think Zach failed. You think the Jets failed him. You think QBs are basically victims (or beneficiaries) of their situation. Despite every GM disagreeing and paying even average QBs a huge percentage of the salary cap and year after year over-reaching for the in the draft. Look, I know you still hope to be right about Zach, but dude was incompetent last season. QBs are not flotsam on the tide of their surrounding talent. Good QBs make their own weaponz, not the other way around.

Zach did fail, I have conceded that.  I also think the Jets did not manage him well (both can be true)- and this toxic fan base was a problem too.  But ultimately it is on the QB to deliver and Zach clearly didn't.

I believe the QB is the most important position in all of sports and I don't see a close second.  The good ones are worth every penny they get.  

My point is I don't see a declining 40 year old, who was 90% sure he was retiring 6 weeks ago - being a special QB any longer.

You are, literally, agreeing with my point.  

Rodgers was the 17th ranked QB last season - that's on him - not the team around him.  The only chance for Rodgers to succeed at the level of what we're paying him - he's going to need massive talent around him.  As of now the Jets haven't come close to giving it to him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Rodgers was mediocre at best last year. He had some nagging injuries and did not have great talent around him.

This year, he will be one year older, so one can expect the nagging injuries to continue if not get worse. We have some receivers but not much else, Right now. 

I'd rather watch Rodgers for this  year than any other QB but the expectation that this is a SB team is insane, and more deeply rooted in absurd Wilson hate than anything.

It was like turning Mike White into some great QB, until he sucked. It was more about ZW than it was mIke white.

The best case for this team is to hope to squeak out a 6th seed this year, which they should have done last year given their start. You don't give up big draft capital for that.

 

 

I agree with this.  But I think you're drastically over paying for a team that really has no chance of winning anything.

I get what you're saying - if it's, I just want Rodgers because it'll be fun and we're a fun starved fan base...even if it cost us 2 nd round picks and $60m in cap space...But don't really expect much.

Honestly I'm good with that thought process, while I don't agree at all - I really can't blame any Jet fan for just wanting a little excitement.  Rodgers is sure to bring that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

More pass rushers?  They have Lawson, JFM, Huff, Johnson and Clemons.  I am literally unsure if they can carry another one.  I get they aren't the sack exchange, but they were fine.  The defense was good in 2022.  There is absolutely no reason to think they will be worse in 2023 beyond likelihood of injury and general regression.  Who did they lose?  Rankins, Shepherd and Joyner.  Seriously?  Rankins is the only one that you can even argue is better than a JAG.  Joyner is still on the street and, like Vinny Curry, can probably be signed whenever we want.  The actually upgraded at S with Clark over Joyner.  I get Joyner is more "free" safety/nickel CB, but MCII fills his role pretty well.  I can't see worrying about 2024 MLB until we have things straight.  It may be Sherwood, it may be a 2023 or 2024 draft pick.  None of that is important right now.  

Lawson has been a huge disappointment.  I think we were all hoping he would be a terror coming off the edge. He does get sacks but he isn't  applying a pressure, at least I haven't  noticed it watching games. JFM is a good example of a steady guy on the DL but again, nobody os game planing to stop him and Huff os an opportunist sack guy. He doesn't  apply consistent  pressure. The only guy ypu can count on to disrupt a play is Q. When he is in there, he wrecks things. We need another guy that the OL has to worry about blocking and it isn't  Huff, JFM, JJ, Clemons, or Lawson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...