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Won't be the most popular decision at center, but could see it happening


AFJF

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43 minutes ago, Maxman said:

I'd be okay with either. So much riding on this season, a rookie center isn't the best choice. This offensive line is going to be better than last year with the pieces they already have in place. Would love a 4th \ 5th round center on the roster that they can develop.

Same.  Really not much they an do at C that I wouldn't like unless it was a round 6 guy who won't be ready to play this season.  I'd imagine their preference would be a high-end draft pick who will be around for years.

JMS or Tippman at 42/43?  Fine.

Stromberg in the 4th (or 3rd if they add a pick there)?  Fine.

McGovern returns?  Also fine.

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1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

I think GMs would tell you a true first rounder is much more valuable than the 2nd round grades in round 1. Just this week Kirwan and Polian have said this. The pics at the top for true 1st rounders are super valuable. It's why you dont see many trades early usually but then a ton in the 2nd half of the first round.

But these players have grades.  If you've got two guys separated by 1 or 2 points and that point happens to be at the threshold of round 1 and round 2, is taking the 2 the end of the world?  Especially if it means you're gaining an extra pick/player in exchange for that 1 point?

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Are these college centers capable of starting from day one? Maybe but I think I would be a little concerned going into the season with a rookie on the oline if it can be avoided.  Much as McGovern isn’t the best center out there he has played just about every game. Put him between two decent guards and he’ll look a lot better.  Same thing for any center they bring in. The thing they shouldn’t do is bring a guy out of retirement like they did with Khalil.

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11 hours ago, derp said:

I would not be a big fan JMS in the first, even after a trade down. Second round player. Old. No need to get too crazy with him.

Fine with him at 42/43, though I prefer Tippmann. If neither is there at 42/43 the veteran approach is fine. Maybe see if Wypler/Stromberg is there in the fourth.

All the “experts” ie Jim Nagy, Kirwan etc say JMS is a plug and play, solid to pro bowler caliber 10 yr player. I don’t see how picking him in the 1st would be bad especially in a trade down scenario. 

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8 hours ago, AFJF said:

But these players have grades.  If you've got two guys separated by 1 or 2 points and that point happens to be at the threshold of round 1 and round 2, is taking the 2 the end of the world?  Especially if it means you're gaining an extra pick/player in exchange for that 1 point?

I think the point is in most years there are only 12-15 players with a first round grade which is why teams in the top 15 rarely bail unless it’s a full on rebuild, but teams in the 20s know that they are getting crap value so they would love to trade down. The rookie wage scale locks the contracts in, so you are paying first round prices for second round talent. 
The jets are in a position to grab a true first round talent.

Keep in mind the reason the Jimmy Johnson chart shows a drastic reduction in value as you trade back is the probability of the players working out, and you have less choice of a player that fits your criteria and schemes.
You are getting extra bodies but less quality and more risk. 
 

Not all teams use a number grade. Some just use Rd. 
 

JD has traded up twice in the first round for lineman. I think he’s more likely to try to trade up than down early. He moves around a lot in the middle rounds.  

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3 minutes ago, Barton said:

If the jets take a center with their first round pick, JD should be fired. He needs to stop falling in love with these Olineman just because he was an Olineman in his playing days. Frickin meathead.

Skoronski played C in high school and became a 5 star recruit. Just saying.  

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15 hours ago, AFJF said:

Just threw this tweet in an article about the Jets having more needs than picks but thought center was worth discussing on its own because McGovern is still out there.

Jets have met with JMS four or five times between combine, pro days, top 30, etc so it looks like he's the guy they want.  If he's gone before they pick in round two, do they pass on center entirely to bring McGovern or Ben Jones in for one season and plan on going center next year?

 

 

Maybe Ben Jones but not McGovern.

I think there are real performance reasons why McGovern and Fant are still out there.  McGovern might be a good enough 1 on 1 Center but he lacks the ability to make the entire offensive line better.  I won't pretend to be an expert but the best Centers seem to have high IQs & good communication skills .. for example, to call out the right protection schemes.

For 3 years now, I've seen too many free shots on our QBs from blitzes & stunts.  

Let's get a center who is the glue and sets the tempo.  This is the type of position that really does make the entire line better.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Larz said:

Skoronski played C in high school and became a 5 star recruit. Just saying.  

I’m ok with that pick but I don’t think it’s the best possible choice. Find a center round 2 or sign a veteran. This team is 1 injury away (Garrett) from having the worst WR/TE corps in the league. That is not OK. Id go playmaker on offense 1st rd. 

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18 minutes ago, C Mart said:

All the “experts” ie Jim Nagy, Kirwan etc say JMS is a plug and play, solid to pro bowler caliber 10 yr player. I don’t see how picking him in the 1st would be bad especially in a trade down scenario. 

Those aren’t the guys I’d lean on for opinions, personally. Kirwan has been out of stuff for a while and Nagy is always super positive about his Senior Bowl guys. And Pro Bowl seems quite rich.

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7 minutes ago, Barton said:

I’m ok with that pick but I don’t think it’s the best possible choice. Find a center round 2 or sign a veteran. This team is 1 injury away (Garrett) from having the worst WR/TE corps in the league. That is not OK. Id go playmaker on offense 1st rd. 

Agree with that, but it’s a bad year for that tho. It’s like one guy and the Texans are desperate for WR help. 

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1 hour ago, derp said:

Those aren’t the guys I’d lean on for opinions, personally. Kirwan has been out of stuff for a while and Nagy is always super positive about his Senior Bowl guys. And Pro Bowl seems quite rich.

So whom should I lean on for opinions? 

“out of stuff?”  What does that mean?

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12 minutes ago, C Mart said:

So whom should I lean on for opinions? 

“out of stuff?”  What does that mean?

Lean on whoever you want. I said I wouldn't lean on those guys. To me, hearing Pro Bowl upside for JMS is kind of bonkers - he's a 24 year old who's an average athlete and had some problems in pass protection last year. You're perfectly allowed to want JMS based on their opinions, they just don't move the needle for me.

Kirwan's been out of the league for a long time now. I think the older and farther from being involved on a day to day basis some guys get, they end up out of touch. Kirwin, to me, seems out of touch. There are exceptions, I'll always pay attention to what Greg Cosell has to say even if I try to think critically about it - but I haven't really thought Kirwan is on point about much.

I think Dane Brugler does the best job of the draft media guys nowadays, Daniel Jeremiah is solid too, and I enjoy Brandon Thorn's work on the offensive linemen.

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10 minutes ago, derp said:

Lean on whoever you want. I said I wouldn't lean on those guys. To me, hearing Pro Bowl upside for JMS is kind of bonkers - he's a 24 year old who's an average athlete and had some problems in pass protection last year. You're perfectly allowed to want JMS based on their opinions, they just don't move the needle for me.

Kirwan's been out of the league for a long time now. I think the older and farther from being involved on a day to day basis some guys get, they end up out of touch. Kirwin, to me, seems out of touch. There are exceptions, I'll always pay attention to what Greg Cosell has to say even if I try to think critically about it - but I haven't really thought Kirwan is on point about much.

I think Dane Brugler does the best job of the draft media guys nowadays, Daniel Jeremiah is solid too, and I enjoy Brandon Thorn's work on the offensive linemen.

The pro bowl comment was ceiling. I don’t remember who said it. It was as a passing comment.  Who the hells knows. Creed Humphrey went 60 something a few yrs ago and he’s pro bowler. 

Kirwan goes to the combine, Sr Bowl and still has contacts throughout the league. He says he watches film. Does he?  I dont know 

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35 minutes ago, C Mart said:

The pro bowl comment was ceiling. I don’t remember who said it. It was as a passing comment.  Who the hells knows. Creed Humphrey went 60 something a few yrs ago and he’s pro bowler. 

Kirwan goes to the combine, Sr Bowl and still has contacts throughout the league. He says he watches film. Does he?  I dont know 

Throwing out prospects to sell others is tough - not that you're necessarily doing it. I was a huge fan of Humphrey as a prospect. Had a lot of the stuff I'd like to see in JMS, he just fell a little later. If I remember right Oklahoma ran a lot of gap stuff and there were questions how he'd be on the move - but he tested super well. Young, leader, awesome athlete. I was a big fan. Really wanted the Jets to take him.

Just don't see it as much with JMS. Old, average athlete, who needs pass pro work is a scary combination to me. Doesn't mean he's an outright no, but if a guy needs work I'd prefer he's younger and a plus athlete. Think JMS is getting drafted more for who he is than who he could be, and I think he's probably a more polished but average-ish center who's a better run blocker than a pass protector.. Which is fine, and has value, but is a day two pick to me.

I like Tippmann more than JMS, but probably less than I did Humphrey. Think Tippmann is a nice fit in this scheme - younger and very mobile.

Ultimately, everyone gets to consume what they want and form their own opinions on this stuff. I'm just not too keen on JMS as a first round pick.

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20 hours ago, Kelly to Allen no huddle said:

Keet an eye on Stromberg from Arkansas. 

Tough sob, high ras, tons of experience vs the best 

Took him in my JN Radio mock on Thursday.  Underrated by most but Baldy listed him as his number 2 center in this class a couple days ago.

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Taking JMS at 13 would be beyond dumb. 
 

How much of a drop off is Stromberg than JMS? Maybe a bit, but probably nothing significant. He’ll be there in the 4th most likely. Center just isn’t a position to value that high. Low salaries and easy to find replacements. I’d probably argue that RBS are more valuable than centers

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17 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Connor McGovern is fine and should've been signed already.  We really don't need a 2nd round Center.  Far too many holes on this roster.

McGovern got 10 mill a yr.   He may be in a position to take less now but if that was the case, with all our holes, I think he d be signed by now.    I’m sure the Jets have had some discussion about what he wants and he may be a fall back position, but they are up against the cap and he may not be affordable.

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23 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

McGovern got 10 mill a yr.   He may be in a position to take less now but if that was the case, with all our holes, I think he d be signed by now.    I’m sure the Jets have had some discussion about what he wants and he may be a fall back position, but they are up against the cap and he may not be affordable.

You should not need 4 first round OLmen to be good in the NFL.

It's ridiculous the amount of resources the Jets put into the OL for it to suck.  McGovern was the steadies player on the OL for the past two years.  

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34 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You should not need 4 first round OLmen to be good in the NFL.

It's ridiculous the amount of resources the Jets put into the OL for it to suck.  McGovern was the steadies player on the OL for the past two years.  

Im not pushing for a first round center but its an obvious hole that needs to be filled and taking a guy in the fourth who isnt ready could be problematic.   I think barring a signing, they need to take one with the first three picks.  Id think a DT is just as important if not more so and would be my first round target.

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18 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Connor McGovern is fine and should've been signed already.  We really don't need a 2nd round Center.  Far too many holes on this roster.

Jets Re-Sign C Connor McGovern

Veteran Was the Only Player on Offense to Take All 1,114 Snaps in 2022 Season

Apr 24, 2023 at 09:30 AM
 
IMG_6717-greenberg-head
Ethan Greenberg

Team Reporter

The Jets have re-signed C Connor McGovern.

McGovern started 17 games for the Green & White last season and was the only player on the team who took every snap on offense in the 2022 season (1,114) and one of only six Jets (both sides of ball) last year to play 1,000+ plus scrimmage snaps. He's the Jets OL to play all offensive snaps in a season since LT Kelvin Beachum & RG Brian Winters both played all 1,001 snaps in 2018.

Originally a fifth-round pick of the Broncos in 2017 out of Missouri, McGovern played three seasons in Denver before joining the Jets in 2020. He first played right guard for the Broncos as a rookie before switching full time to the pivot in 2019.

McGovern had played 3,055 offensive snaps in his three seasons as a Jet (2020-22), the most on the team in that span and 32nd most in the NFL past three years combined. The number ranks 24th among NFL O-linemen past 3 years combined, too.

McGovern is the first Jet to log 3,000+ offensive snaps (all offensive positions) in a three-year span since LG James Carpenter (3,137 snaps, 2015-17) and LT D'Brickashaw Ferguson (3,249 snaps, 2013-15) over the last 10 seasons.

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2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

You should not need 4 first round OLmen to be good in the NFL.

It's ridiculous the amount of resources the Jets put into the OL for it to suck.  McGovern was the steadies player on the OL for the past two years.  

I'm still OK drafting a lineman and a center in the draft but the amount of resources spent on the line since Douglas has been here is off the charts and if the line isn't above average this season it's an epic failure. 

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On 4/22/2023 at 9:09 PM, AFJF said:

I think one of 42 or 43 goes to GB for Rodgers.  It's an overpay, but I think they do it.

That's why I think they'll be working hard to move back.

 

JD moves back at 13 to 15 them moves back again at 15 to low 20's and takes C Schmitz.  Then takes a T at 42.  There's a lot of good tackles in this draft but I think JD has to trade back that 1st rounder to recoup some picks. Or JD may be betting his OL is going to be fine with Brown, Becton and Mitchell.  All have recovered from injuries. Center is really a pritority and a good blue chip one goes a long way solidifying the line for years to come with Becton, AVT and Mitchell.  Getting another tackle or guard  at 42 is still a given as AVT could slide over to tackle if needed. JD has options.   Even if you trade back and back again, there's one guy I'm really interested in: Blake Freeland OT BYU 6'7, 302  RAS: 9.83

Projected pick 70 - 80.....A former state champion in both the shot put and javelin, it comes as no surprise that Freeland has exceptional raw strength. The functionality of that strength on the field can improve at times, but Freeland’s high-end length allows him to outreach most rushers and latch onto the pads with biting hands. Moreover, he has the core strength to maintain extensions and stymie power rushes when in phase and keep rushers inside his shadow after torquing with his hips. For his size, Freeland’s athleticism is eye-catching, and so too is his hip fluidity. He doesn’t quite have elite flexibility, but he has shown he can quickly unhinge and rotate outside against stunts.

The world is going to come apart at the seams if we dot take a tackle in first round.

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On 4/22/2023 at 10:38 PM, Beerfish said:

One of the 2nds will be dealt, at least I hope the Rodgers trade gets made.

If if doesn't I see us using one of the 2nds to trade down instead of taking back to back players.

(I still think we got fleeced in the Elijah Moore deal. a 2nd for a 3rd and an NFL player.)

Its all relative.

Sure, we got fleeced for the talent we gave up. But if Jets coaching staff believe he is a malcontent and Jets brass feel like the receiving talent is adequate without him (Lazard, Wilson, Hardman, Mims, C.Davis), then gaining a 2nd rounder, even if we lose a 3rd for a player we don't really want on the team is a net positive. Especially when it could play a critical role in the Rodgers trade.   

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1 hour ago, OilfieldJet said:

Excellent call.

Thanks.  

The more we were hearing about everyone loving JMS and Jets having him in for multiple visits, figured McGovern would be plan B if he wasn't there.

Signing him today makes me wonder if they have intel letting them know he won't be there in the 40's.

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