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Whether you like Will McDonald better then JSN or not, its undeniable that he has a ton of talent and physical ability.  He has the bend and explosiveness that we havent had here in a very long time.  That being said, the more I look at our group of DL, im struggling to figure out how the Jets are going to use this group effectively.

Currently this is our top 9 DL:

  • Quinnen Williams   DT  310 Lbs
  • Qunetin Jefferson  DT  295lbs
  • Solomon Thomas  DT 295lbs
  • Michael Clemons  DE  270 lbs
  • Will McDonald  DE 240lbs
  • Bryce Huff  DE 250 lbs
  • JJ  DE 260 lbs 
  • Carl Lawson  265Lbs
  • Tanzel Smart  295lbs

That is one guy over 300 lbs in the entire group.  So while this group is going to be great when the team has a lead and they can just rush the passer, what about on early downs?  

One thought was running a version of a hybrid 3-3-5  with McDonald as a sort of SLB used the way the Eagles sometimes use Hassan Reddick (#7 on the left) with Kyzir White and TJ Edwards as the inside LBs.  The issu here is that the Eagles have a ton of size with their DTs to run something like this - we dont.

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Instead is it possible that we use a 5 man DL with McDonald also as a hybrid OLB to protect him in the running game?  McDonald did rush out of a 2 point stance a lot at Iowa State and would be perfect in that type of role but that isnt the defense we run, nor do we have the personnel to run a 3-4.  But with an extra DL on the field, he would be protected more vs the run. 

Most of the scouting reports on McDonald do say that he should be able to become a good edge setter as he matures and was miscast at Iowa State in that they routinely had him over or inside the OT instead of lining up outside the OT's should where he could use his speed and long arms..  Saleh's defense will put him out wide as the "Wide 9 DE" which will be a great fit, im just not sure what you do next to QW since Solomon Thomas and Jefferson are both pretty big liabilities against the run.  

I really think that McDonald is going to be a valuable defensive player and will be an "every down" player as opposed to just a pass rusher.  I just think that we will need to wait until 2024 to see his full potential once we can get a bigger DT to put next to him.

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6 hours ago, football guy said:

Admittedly I thought we were going to get gashed against the run prior to last season, but what was clear as the year progressed was that size isn't as important in our scheme because of how they spread everyone out and rotate. By keeping everyone fresh and exploding upfield, our DL gives opposing OL fits. That spread out disruption at the LOS gives our LBs space needed to clean up the mess in the run game. 

I think we're going to add a NT-capable guy to this unit (thinking Al Woods), but the way I envision them using everyone (knock on wood everyone stays healthy)... 

  • LEO: John Franklin-Myers (60%), Jermaine Johnson (30%) , Bryce Huff (20%)
  • LDT: Jefferson (50%), Solomon Thomas (35%) 
  • RDT: Quinnen Williams (60%), FREE AGENT (35%)  
  • REO: Carl Lawson (60%), Micheal Clemons (25%), Will McDonald IV (25%)

Primary changes: uptick in snaps for JFM and Clemons on the interior and we'll see WMD at both REO and LEO spots

Why in the world would MacDonald get more snaps than Huff and Huff only getting 30% of snaps. Even as a designated pass rushing guy he should be used more than that.

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2 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Why in the world would MacDonald get more snaps than Huff and Huff only getting 30% of snaps. Even as a designated pass rushing guy he should be used more than that.

Because although WMD is lighter then Huff, that isnt the whole story.  Huff's issues vs the run stem a lot from his shorter build/arms - he just doesnt have the wing span to keep guys off his body nor does he have the play strength to hold up even at 255 lbs.

WMD has very long arms and seems to have the play strength to be more of a factor against the run.  

I like Huff quite a bit and he was an excellent find, but I can easily see him leaving in FA after this season and having his snaps go to WMD.  This would also net us a compensatory pick to help manage the roster as we figure out the Rogers cap situation. 

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3 hours ago, BCJet said:

Because although WMD is lighter then Huff, that isnt the whole story.  Huff's issues vs the run stem a lot from his shorter build/arms - he just doesnt have the wing span to keep guys off his body nor does he have the play strength to hold up even at 255 lbs.

WMD has very long arms and seems to have the play strength to be more of a factor against the run.  

I like Huff quite a bit and he was an excellent find, but I can easily see him leaving in FA after this season and having his snaps go to WMD.  This would also net us a compensatory pick to help manage the roster as we figure out the Rogers cap situation. 

He's also a small school developmental player that has improved dramatically every year and is one of the key forces on defense last year. Even in his limited role he had significant impact on our games last year. He has the best PRWR in the NFL

He seems to be a player you should be using more (he is actually better against the run than Lawson) but you are right in that the dunces running our defense don't seem to value him the way he should. 

If we ignore him and he goes elsewhere it will be a big loss I think. With the drafting of MacDonald I would look to move Lawson

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3 hours ago, BCJet said:

Because although WMD is lighter then Huff, that isnt the whole story.  Huff's issues vs the run stem a lot from his shorter build/arms - he just doesnt have the wing span to keep guys off his body nor does he have the play strength to hold up even at 255 lbs.

WMD has very long arms and seems to have the play strength to be more of a factor against the run.  

I like Huff quite a bit and he was an excellent find, but I can easily see him leaving in FA after this season and having his snaps go to WMD.  This would also net us a compensatory pick to help manage the roster as we figure out the Rogers cap situation. 

Weapons of Mass Destruction WMD struggles playing over a guard....he's too small and light to shake off a guard and play on the inside (which is how they were using him at Iowa). I've read he's OK at setting the edge, but I don't see how. To me, his first year here he'll be a one trick pony....speed rush off the edge on critical downs, especially late in the game if we're protecting a lead.

If he's on the field during 'running downs' teams will most likely run right at him.

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13 minutes ago, FootballLove said:

Weapons of Mass Destruction WMD struggles playing over a guard....he's too small and light to shake off a guard and play on the inside (which is how they were using him at Iowa). I've read he's OK at setting the edge, but I don't see how. To me, his first year here he'll be a one trick pony....speed rush off the edge on critical downs, especially late in the game if we're protecting a lead.

If he's on the field during 'running downs' teams will most likely run right at him.

I agree with this analysis completely.   Id imagine he was used on the interior at ISU just to try to get their best players on the field or create a mismatch, but that is not his game at all.  He needs to get more strength to set the edge but with a long wingspan he should be able to develop in that area.

As for this year, JJ should play a lot more on the edge on rushing downs and Lawson can hopefully handle a decent amount of the reps opposite him as could JFM if he isnt playing inside. 

This will allow WMD to rush the passer as a replacement for Lawson opposite Huff and to gain some size/strength and improve his technique to hopefully be more of a 3-down contributor in his second season. 

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27 minutes ago, BCJet said:

I agree with this analysis completely.   Id imagine he was used on the interior at ISU just to try to get their best players on the field or create a mismatch, but that is not his game at all.  He needs to get more strength to set the edge but with a long wingspan he should be able to develop in that area.

As for this year, JJ should play a lot more on the edge on rushing downs and Lawson can hopefully handle a decent amount of the reps opposite him as could JFM if he isnt playing inside. 

This will allow WMD to rush the passer as a replacement for Lawson opposite Huff and to gain some size/strength and improve his technique to hopefully be more of a 3-down contributor in his second season. 

Agree with all this. Makes a lot of sense.

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13 hours ago, football guy said:

Admittedly I thought we were going to get gashed against the run prior to last season, but what was clear as the year progressed was that size isn't as important in our scheme because of how they spread everyone out and rotate. By keeping everyone fresh and exploding upfield, our DL gives opposing OL fits. That spread out disruption at the LOS gives our LBs space needed to clean up the mess in the run game. 

I think we're going to add a NT-capable guy to this unit (thinking Al Woods), but the way I envision them using everyone (knock on wood everyone stays healthy)... 

  • LEO: John Franklin-Myers (60%), Jermaine Johnson (30%) , Bryce Huff (20%)
  • LDT: Jefferson (50%), Solomon Thomas (35%) 
  • RDT: Quinnen Williams (60%), FREE AGENT (35%)  
  • REO: Carl Lawson (60%), Micheal Clemons (25%), Will McDonald IV (25%)

Primary changes: uptick in snaps for JFM and Clemons on the interior and we'll see WMD at both REO and LEO

I feel you are discounting the amount of snaps JJII, Clemons, McDonald and Huff will pay by adding another body.

By those snap counts none would really be showing material growth for an expanded role.

 

 

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15 hours ago, BCJet said:

Whether you like Will McDonald better then JSN or not, its undeniable that he has a ton of talent and physical ability.  He has the bend and explosiveness that we havent had here in a very long time.  That being said, the more I look at our group of DL, im struggling to figure out how the Jets are going to use this group effectively.

Currently this is our top 9 DL:

  • Quinnen Williams   DT  310 Lbs
  • Qunetin Jefferson  DT  295lbs
  • Solomon Thomas  DT 295lbs
  • Michael Clemons  DE  270 lbs
  • Will McDonald  DE 240lbs
  • Bryce Huff  DE 250 lbs
  • JJ  DE 260 lbs 
  • Carl Lawson  265Lbs
  • Tanzel Smart  295lbs

That is one guy over 300 lbs in the entire group.  So while this group is going to be great when the team has a lead and they can just rush the passer, what about on early downs?  

One thought was running a version of a hybrid 3-3-5  with McDonald as a sort of SLB used the way the Eagles sometimes use Hassan Reddick (#7 on the left) with Kyzir White and TJ Edwards as the inside LBs.  The issu here is that the Eagles have a ton of size with their DTs to run something like this - we dont.

Image

Instead is it possible that we use a 5 man DL with McDonald also as a hybrid OLB to protect him in the running game?  McDonald did rush out of a 2 point stance a lot at Iowa State and would be perfect in that type of role but that isnt the defense we run, nor do we have the personnel to run a 3-4.  But with an extra DL on the field, he would be protected more vs the run. 

Most of the scouting reports on McDonald do say that he should be able to become a good edge setter as he matures and was miscast at Iowa State in that they routinely had him over or inside the OT instead of lining up outside the OT's should where he could use his speed and long arms..  Saleh's defense will put him out wide as the "Wide 9 DE" which will be a great fit, im just not sure what you do next to QW since Solomon Thomas and Jefferson are both pretty big liabilities against the run.  

I really think that McDonald is going to be a valuable defensive player and will be an "every down" player as opposed to just a pass rusher.  I just think that we will need to wait until 2024 to see his full potential once we can get a bigger DT to put next to him.

Saleh and Ulbrich spent two years establishing a 4-3 or 4-2-5 defense that rarely throws curve balls. McDonald will play wide-9 LEO or REO at around 30% of snaps unless he outplays his teammates. 

Stopping the run is our team’s weakness. It that exactly the weakness you wanna have. Play with leads and force teams to be 1-dimensional, all it takes is 1 run stop to force a team to pass and let loose your best players.

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1 minute ago, NYJCAP2 said:

I feel you are discounting the amount of snaps JJII, Clemons, McDonald and Huff will pay by adding another body.

By those snap counts none would really be showing material growth for an expanded role.

 

 

I don't think the Jets really care about perception on this front. They want those EDGEs to be fresh as possible, and that may mean only playing 20-40% of the snaps each. They're measuring productivity in terms of their performance per snap, not how many snaps they're playing. It's certainly possible they have JFM and Lawson play less than I'm projecting, but overall I don't think we should anticipate a major increase in playing time for the young guys

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- I think we add a situational 'run-stuffer' and one of the guys on your list will be cut. I'm thinking Smart. 

- JJ can play LB on early downs and is great at setting the edge while still being capable of dropping into coverage. No, not his strength, but situationally.  

- McDonald is best as a situational pass rusher (probably best in a wide nine) and that is how I would use him. Utilize that bend, athleticism and speed. Just have him pin his ears back and go on passing downs. Don't mess around trying to give him more reps by slotting him in as a LB and asking him to take on RBs at 240lbs. I'm sure he's be ok with it but that's not his game. 

 

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1 hour ago, football guy said:

I don't think the Jets really care about perception on this front. They want those EDGEs to be fresh as possible, and that may mean only playing 20-40% of the snaps each. They're measuring productivity in terms of their performance per snap, not how many snaps they're playing. It's certainly possible they have JFM and Lawson play less than I'm projecting, but overall I don't think we should anticipate a major increase in playing time for the young guys

That’s fair, I maxed JJII out at 40% so not much higher than you.

Be interesting to see how the run defense holds up this year.

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4 hours ago, johnnysd said:

He's also a small school developmental player that has improved dramatically every year and is one of the key forces on defense last year. Even in his limited role he had significant impact on our games last year. He has the best PRWR in the NFL

He seems to be a player you should be using more (he is actually better against the run than Lawson) but you are right in that the dunces running our defense don't seem to value him the way he should. 

If we ignore him and he goes elsewhere it will be a big loss I think. With the drafting of MacDonald I would look to move Lawson

I think part of the issue is that he wasn't working on specials earlier on.  He never hit 30% of the defensive snaps for a game.  He played 10-20 per but he got more run as he played more specials and they traded Martin.  Lawson and Huff are probably both gone next year IMO, though I think they might keep Lawson around if he is not too expensive.  I think he is a good soldier and it always helps to have a guy like that in the weight room. 

 

7 hours ago, Cbucco19 said:

Really wish we kept Marshall over guys like Shep and smart . 

I think part of the reason those guys were handled that wayis that I think they are playing the comp pick formula.  Shepherd and Rankins probably net something.   Smart and Marshall were on the practice squad almost the entire season.  The Steelers poached Marshall in December, no?  Smart was certainly ahead of him and was bounced on and off the active roster.  They are both still pretty fringe-y.  It is why I think Huff and possibly Lawson will be gone after this season. 

I agree with @football guy I think these 295 lb quick guys one gap better than those old space eaters.  We probably just want a body to fill the middle on short yardage.  I agree on Al Woods.  He visited the Jets and Browns at the start of April and he still hasn't signed.  Probably weighing options between those teams and returning to the Seahawks.  I was surprised we didn't bring in any big bodies in the late rounds or UDFA class.  The two 330+ guys I liked, Jerrod Clark (Chargers) and PJ Mustipher (Broncos), signed UDFA deals. 

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2 hours ago, kdels62 said:

Saleh and Ulbrich spent two years establishing a 4-3 or 4-2-5 defense that rarely throws curve balls. McDonald will play wide-9 LEO or REO at around 30% of snaps unless he outplays his teammates. 

Stopping the run is our team’s weakness. It that exactly the weakness you wanna have. Play with leads and force teams to be 1-dimensional, all it takes is 1 run stop to force a team to pass and let loose your best players.

Their pass offense was 3rd and rush defense 16th, but I think a lot of that was the Jets not putting up a lot of points themselves and having a losing record overall. Teams had a lead against the Jets, and the stopped passing and just ran the ball. The Jets only gave up 4.2 ypa, which was good enough to tie three other teams for 6th best in the league. 
 

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It is well known the Jets need a run stuffing DT. The value of the WMD pick is in the roster flexibility it provides going forward.
Lawson has been a disappointment in regards to his contract, started slow last year, made some plays. I think we were expecting more. Now, in a contract year and two years from his injury. He’s in prime position to have a bounce back year. But regardless how well he does. The Jets will have to let him walk, with Quinnen and the cap. WMD gets to grow into the pass rusher role for a year now


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35 minutes ago, slats said:

Their pass offense was 3rd and rush defense 16th, but I think a lot of that was the Jets not putting up a lot of points themselves and having a losing record overall. Teams had a lead against the Jets, and the stopped passing and just ran the ball. The Jets only gave up 4.2 ypa, which was good enough to tie three other teams for 6th best in the league. 
 

It’s an overblown issue that looked bigger because we were losing games where teams would suck for 3 quarters and then put together 1 drive to win 16-9. 

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