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Jets dark horse candidates for ‘23 roster


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8 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Of those my confidence is lowest with sherwood, his problem is his athletic ability.

E0UhuwZXIAAhQ_b.png

We drafted one and brought in about another 3 or 4 udfa's who seem to have similar profiles but way better athletic scores.

I think there is a real possibility he does not make it.

To be fair, that’s compared to other safeties.  Don’t know what it would look like benchmarked to linebackers.  

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30 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I think Adams is the reason why they didn't draft a safety.  I expect him to get a ton of playing time.

They did draft a big DB ( Bernard Converse) who has played safety and CB but seems like more of a safety in the pros.   I think he could be a factor.

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38 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

To be fair, that’s compared to other safeties.  Don’t know what it would look like benchmarked to linebackers.  

Good point, but probably pretty similar.  Worse on size, better on speed. 

I think this is probably the last year of Hamsah and Sherwood.  Unfortunately, I think two of the best of JD's last round flyers, S Pinnock and DT Marshall, ended up getting claimed by other (good) teams.  We were left with the dregs.  

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5 hours ago, Paradis said:

Also, maybe Bryce Hall finally gets moved over to FS

That conversation has taken place quite a few times.  Discussed with somebody again just a few days ago.  If he's not going to see the field as a CB, they may as well give him a look.

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5 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

They did draft a big DB ( Bernard Converse) who has played safety and CB but seems like more of a safety in the pros.   I think he could be a factor.

They did, but I believe they announced him as a CB.  Of course that could change, but teams tend to announce picks at the position they envision them playing.  He's also listed as a CB vs DB on the roster.  We shall see.

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The Jets starting deep safety opposite Chuck Clark isn’t on the roster, and if their posture is that they’re going to be playing with leads, there’s zero reason to keep Jordan Whitehead on the roster (and 7+ million reasons to dump him). Same deal in Tennessee with Byard, who’s making a ton of money and they have to dump him pre-6/1 if they want all the dead cap to hit this year. I’m sure they’d love to go cheap at the position with Tony Adams or Converse, but it’s going to be too important to trust to a scrub or a rookie. 

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9 hours ago, Lith said:

A little better, but still not the athletic profile that it seems we are looking for

image.png

Linebacker is a tough one because instincts are so important. Safety too. Athletic guys slid this year because they don’t have good instincts.

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40 minutes ago, Lith said:


Darron Lee’s biggest problem, imo. Size was not his problem, it was poor instincts. He was slow to react to the play which negated his speed.

Absolutely. Ideally you want a fast guy with instincts, but I'd probably roll the dice on an average athlete (which is pretty much where Sherwood fell) with instincts at the position than a fast guy who doesn't know what they're doing. 

Think in large part that's why highly drafted linebackers have struggled - testing pushes guys up, but I don't think it matters for everyone there. Seems like teams are maybe catching up a little there - that and it's just not a premium position the same way. I think we'll see true three down guys get elevated, especially if a guy like Campbell moves the needle for Detroit. Tend to be a lot of guys who are 230 and run 4.5's on day three now though.

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10 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Of those my confidence is lowest with sherwood, his problem is his athletic ability.

E0UhuwZXIAAhQ_b.png

We drafted one and brought in about another 3 or 4 udfa's who seem to have similar profiles but way better athletic scores.

I think there is a real possibility he does not make it.

Do those RAS tallies always assume college position? Still wouldn’t be elite #s anyway, but he’s not playing FS here.

If those were RAS based on him lining up at LB would they be the same scores or higher? I’m asking, not finger-wagging, though I suspect the answer is yes (based on the “Elite” grades for size wouldn’t still be elite for an offensive tackle).

Now, I don’t know if he’s slowed down further after adding weight - presumably he’s not faster - but if it’s still in the same ballpark it’s not tragic and his speed to the ball carrier is going to be more affected by instinct than an extra 0.1 seconds on any of these times.

I remember Bryan Cox boasting he’d probably never run a (sub-) 5 second 40 in his life. His fast reaction time erased that deficit (even more for shorter splits). I’m not a close to saying Sherwood has that, so much as that aspect will ultimately be what makes or breaks him more than his RAS (never mind his RAS if they were based on him as a safety).

A green RAS surely increases a prospect’s margin for error, like pure 40 time & height for a WR, but if RAS was everything our new TE would’ve been drafted in round 1.

zadarius-smith-ras-12271.png?resize=806,
 

He’s not the only one like this, and no doubt a lower RAS is hardly an asset, but what’ll make him a player or not will be his neck-up & quickness off the ball, not his dash/split times.

Also he might just suck and get cut, lol.

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5 hours ago, AFJF said:

They did, but I believe they announced him as a CB.  Of course that could change, but teams tend to announce picks at the position they envision them playing.  He's also listed as a CB vs DB on the roster.  We shall see.

Im no draft-nick but from what I read he is a little stiff to be a corner back and thats why a guy with his size and measurables fell. 


As CB is the more valuable position , Im sure that theyll give him a chance there before sliding him to safety where is corner skills may be useful to cover RBs TEs and match up with slot receivers at times.

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3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The Jets starting deep safety opposite Chuck Clark isn’t on the roster, and if their posture is that they’re going to be playing with leads, there’s zero reason to keep Jordan Whitehead on the roster (and 7+ million reasons to dump him). Same deal in Tennessee with Byard, who’s making a ton of money and they have to dump him pre-6/1 if they want all the dead cap to hit this year. I’m sure they’d love to go cheap at the position with Tony Adams or Converse, but it’s going to be too important to trust to a scrub or a rookie. 

Luckily Adams is neither a scrub nor a rookie, so I'm fine with giving him a chance at the starting job - at the very least a shot to earn it in TC.  Hall could be another option to slide over and compete there.  Adams looked pretty damn good late in the season though, so my expectations for him are pretty high.

 

Worst case, we look to a bottom feeder a few weeks into the season for a James Robinson-type trade at the FS position.  Hopefully it works out a little better than it did with JR though.

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3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Do those RAS tallies always assume college position? Still wouldn’t be elite #s anyway, but he’s not playing FS here.

If those were RAS based on him lining up at LB would they be the same scores or higher? I’m asking, not finger-wagging, though I suspect the answer is yes (based on the “Elite” grades for size wouldn’t still be elite for an offensive tackle).

Now, I don’t know if he’s slowed down further after adding weight - presumably he’s not faster - but if it’s still in the same ballpark it’s not tragic and his speed to the ball carrier is going to be more affected by instinct than an extra 0.1 seconds on any of these times.

I remember Bryan Cox boasting he’d probably never run a (sub-) 5 second 40 in his life. His fast reaction time erased that deficit (even more for shorter splits). I’m not a close to saying Sherwood has that, so much as that aspect will ultimately be what makes or breaks him more than his RAS (never mind his RAS if they were based on him as a safety).

A green RAS surely increases a prospect’s margin for error, like pure 40 time & height for a WR, but if RAS was everything our new TE would’ve been drafted in round 1.

zadarius-smith-ras-12271.png?resize=806,
 

He’s not the only one like this, and no doubt a lower RAS is hardly an asset, but what’ll make him a player or not will be his neck-up & quickness off the ball, not his dash/split times.

Also he might just suck and get cut, lol.

Sherwood is slow and not agile for a safety, and for a linebacker.  And of what I have seen he plays to his stated speed and athletic numbers.  There is a reason the jets drafted one S/LB and made about 3 others priority udfa signings.

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42 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Sherwood is slow and not agile for a safety, and for a linebacker.  And of what I have seen he plays to his stated speed and athletic numbers.  There is a reason the jets drafted one S/LB and made about 3 others priority udfa signings.

I don't think there's any one reason, especially as you get further into day 3 you're just looking for the least-likely to get cut (or that's what I'd do anyway); it's hard enough to get picks right on days 1-2 as it is.

Maybe they think Sherwood sucks; I've got no dog in that race. Maybe it's just a hedge in case he's not taking the next step. Maybe what you say. Maybe parts of all of the above, particularly when there's no locked-in starter at one of the LB positions. Flinging mud against the wall to see what sticks isn't a new approach to fill one slot, before grudgingly going back to last year's starter.

I think with Kwon they were happy (or at least not-unhappy) with his season, but there has to be at least some sense of take the money & run with him not missing a game for the first time since whenever. Plus he's also veteran depth for MLB as well, if needed, seeing how that's where he played when he was at his best years ago.

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3 hours ago, bonkertons said:

Luckily Adams is neither a scrub nor a rookie, so I'm fine with giving him a chance at the starting job - at the very least a shot to earn it in TC.  Hall could be another option to slide over and compete there.  Adams looked pretty damn good late in the season though, so my expectations for him are pretty high.

 

Worst case, we look to a bottom feeder a few weeks into the season for a James Robinson-type trade at the FS position.  Hopefully it works out a little better than it did with JR though.

Agreed

Adams wasnt drafted because he was never given a chance to stay at one position and really excel at it.  He was moved from CB to S in every season he played in college.  He is a good enough athlete to play centerfield and is good in run support.  I think with a full season playing safety, along with a full off-season and TC he could really surprise and hold down the position.

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4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Do those RAS tallies always assume college position? Still wouldn’t be elite #s anyway, but he’s not playing FS here.

If those were RAS based on him lining up at LB would they be the same scores or higher? I’m asking, not finger-wagging, though I suspect the answer is yes (based on the “Elite” grades for size wouldn’t still be elite for an offensive tackle).

Now, I don’t know if he’s slowed down further after adding weight - presumably he’s not faster - but if it’s still in the same ballpark it’s not tragic and his speed to the ball carrier is going to be more affected by instinct than an extra 0.1 seconds on any of these times.

I remember Bryan Cox boasting he’d probably never run a (sub-) 5 second 40 in his life. His fast reaction time erased that deficit (even more for shorter splits). I’m not a close to saying Sherwood has that, so much as that aspect will ultimately be what makes or breaks him more than his RAS (never mind his RAS if they were based on him as a safety).

A green RAS surely increases a prospect’s margin for error, like pure 40 time & height for a WR, but if RAS was everything our new TE would’ve been drafted in round 1.

zadarius-smith-ras-12271.png?resize=806,
 

He’s not the only one like this, and no doubt a lower RAS is hardly an asset, but what’ll make him a player or not will be his neck-up & quickness off the ball, not his dash/split times.

Also he might just suck and get cut, lol.

I think it was discussed last year and it’s relative to height/weight but I’m definitely not planting a flag on that, it’s just my fuzzy memory lol 

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1 minute ago, Larz said:

I think it was discussed last year and it’s relative to height/weight but I’m definitely not planting a flag on that, it’s just my fuzzy memory lol 

So that height/weight score would've been the same whether he was a safety or a tackle? I don't recall the discussion & don't feel like researching, so I was legitimately asking.

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3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So that height/weight score would've been the same whether he was a safety or a tackle? I don't recall the discussion & don't feel like researching, so I was legitimately asking.

I remember being wrong and someone explained it to me lol. I honestly can’t remember which side I was on but I think I was making the argument that it goes by position and that the player the jets drafted would have a better score if you go by the new position.  It might have been JJ. 

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1 minute ago, Larz said:

I remember being wrong and someone explained it to me lol. I honestly can’t remember which side I was on but I think I was making the argument that it goes by position and that the player the jets drafted would have a better score if you go by the new position.  It might have been JJ. 

I thought it might because there was a specific score for height & weight, but that was just a 50-50 guess & really I've no idea.

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4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I thought it might because there was a specific score for height & weight, but that was just a 50-50 guess & really I've no idea.

It’s position ?.  Hey at least I’m consistent 

 

What is Relative Athletic Score?

Developed by Kent Lee Platte, Relative Athletic Score (RAS) is a metric that takes all of a player's NFL Combine measurables — height, weight, wingspan, hand size, athletics and drill results — and boils them down into one number, on a scale of 0 (lowest) to 10 (highest). The metric also takes position into account, to make sure that positions are judged against each other accordingly. Hence the "Relative" part of the name.

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5 minutes ago, Larz said:

It’s position ?.  Hey at least I’m consistent 

 

What is Relative Athletic Score?

Developed by Kent Lee Platte, Relative Athletic Score (RAS) is a metric that takes all of a player's NFL Combine measurables — height, weight, wingspan, hand size, athletics and drill results — and boils them down into one number, on a scale of 0 (lowest) to 10 (highest). The metric also takes position into account, to make sure that positions are judged against each other accordingly. Hence the "Relative" part of the name.

Cool. That makes more sense. I couldn't understand how there's a %ile/score for weight that's independent of position, but what do I know.

So it stands to reason his RAS for speed/etc. would've been at least somewhat higher if he was graded as a LB rather than as a FS, though his RAS for weight would probably plummet to like a 0. 

Now duh, I'm scrolling up and see that @Lith already did this.

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4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Sherwood is slow and not agile for a safety, and for a linebacker.  And of what I have seen he plays to his stated speed and athletic numbers.  There is a reason the jets drafted one S/LB and made about 3 others priority udfa signings.

Not sure you can look at UDFA signings as evidence that a player is on the outs.  A draft pick sure, but even then we are relatively thin at LB even with Sherwood and Nas in the fold.  Could be more about how they don't plan on bringing back Kwon than it is about how they don't like Sherwood.  

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