My choice and cofavorite for Jets Offensive Rookie of the Year

[hmhertz]

and it's not the state I can posses dual citizenship with as his other Co,

EJ Jenkins

[JETS SB]

Izzy will win. 

[Larz]

I don’t think either guy makes the 53.  Both practice squad players. 
 

Izzy and Tippmann 

[Jet2020]

Should’ve been Kincaid. 

[Green Ghost]

6 minutes ago, Jet2020 said:

Should’ve been Kincaid. 

Just be thankful we got Lawrence Taylor 2.0 ?

[slats]

10 hours ago, Jet2020 said:

Should’ve been Kincaid. 

Drafting a TE at #15 overall is a dicey game. You’re saying the Jets should’ve drafted arguably the least valuable position on offense over the most important position on defense? A position that traditionally has a fairly steep learning curve in the NFL? When the team already has two vets and a third rounder from last year at the position? Just no. I know people are all over offense nowadays, but an edge specializing in strip sacks will do more for Rodgers and the team than a rookie TE.  

[Jet Nut]

10 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

Just be thankful we got Lawrence Taylor 2.0 ?

Over Kyle Brady every day

[T0mShane]

29 minutes ago, slats said:

Drafting a TE at #15 overall is a dicey game. You’re saying the Jets should’ve drafted arguably the least valuable position on offense over the most important position on defense? A position that traditionally has a fairly steep learning curve in the NFL? When the team already has two vets and a third rounder from last year at the position? Just no. I know people are all over offense nowadays, but an edge specializing in strip sacks will do more for Rodgers and the team than a rookie TE.  

Every year, teams draft these relatively athletic tight ends and every year they get burned. Draft bros will call them “matchup nightmaaaaares,” but they get into the NFL and they get matched up with just fine. The ones who break out are the ones who can survive 20-30 snaps blocking on a defensive end and still have enough juice to slide into the open area on play action when their number is called, and even that is a product of the defense reacting to other, better players on the offense. In the case of Kincaid, it’ll be interesting to see where he plays in Buffalo. Is he a slot guy? Because he’s not athletic enough to be a slot guy. Are they going to play him inline? Because he’s coming off a broken back and good luck asking a Pac-12 guy to jump into the trenches in Buffalo in November and December. The best TE coming out of this draft will probably be someone like Schoonmaker, who has actual experience playing in the mosh pit and still getting himself open

[T0mShane]

I think the best player from this draft class will be Carter Warren. He’s a dude with requisite size and a million snaps played along the OL on a NFL style offense in a major conference who slid because of a meniscus (not ACL etc) injury. OL guru guy Brandon Thorn spoke very positively of him in the lead up to the draft. I think Tippman will be very good, McDonald will have his role, but Warren could eventually be the best tackle we’ve had here since Brick.

[derp]

19 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think the best player from this draft class will be Carter Warren. He’s a dude with requisite size and a million snaps played along the OL on a NFL style offense in a major conference who slid because of a meniscus (not ACL etc) injury. OL guru guy Brandon Thorn spoke very positively of him in the lead up to the draft. I think Tippman will be very good, McDonald will have his role, but Warren could eventually be the best tackle we’ve had here since Brick.

Perhaps a distinction without a difference, I don’t know if the best but I think he has a real chance to be the most valuable. I love the idea of having an elite iOL with adequate pass blockers at tackle, and he could fit that.

Reminds me of the Clemons pick. Premium position, good college player, old, injuries. So you get him in the fourth because of the negatives, but if he’s good he might be useful right off the bat. We should know pretty much right away. And this DL will certainly test him.

Can talk yourself into a lot of these picks making sense for the scheme, the value of the position, and the way they’ll be used. It’ll be interesting to see whether Douglas turned a corner the last draft or that was an anomaly.

[dbatesman]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think the best player from this draft class will be Carter Warren. He’s a dude with requisite size and a million snaps played along the OL on a NFL style offense in a major conference who slid because of a meniscus (not ACL etc) injury. OL guru guy Brandon Thorn spoke very positively of him in the lead up to the draft. I think Tippman will be very good, McDonald will have his role, but Warren could eventually be the best tackle we’ve had here since Brick.

I won’t go that far (I think within two years the consensus on McDonald will be “how the hell did he last to 15?”), but I certainly think Warren is our most intriguing rookie, for all the reasons you list here.

[T0mShane]

52 minutes ago, derp said:

Perhaps a distinction without a difference, I don’t know if the best but I think he has a real chance to be the most valuable. I love the idea of having an elite iOL with adequate pass blockers at tackle, and he could fit that.

Reminds me of the Clemons pick. Premium position, good college player, old, injuries. So you get him in the fourth because of the negatives, but if he’s good he might be useful right off the bat. We should know pretty much right away. And this DL will certainly test him.

Can talk yourself into a lot of these picks making sense for the scheme, the value of the position, and the way they’ll be used. It’ll be interesting to see whether Douglas turned a corner the last draft or that was an anomaly.

 

52 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I won’t go that far (I think within two years the consensus on McDonald will be “how the hell did he last to 15?”), but I certainly think Warren is our most intriguing rookie, for all the reasons you list here.

For context, I’ve been doing some reflection about how I rank NFL draft prospects by position, and what that list looks like is this:

1. QB like Phil Simms who has seen some sh*t and doesn’t lose games by himself.

2. An OT (left or right) who plays for ten years and you don’t worry about them until they’re facing a top-5 EDGE, which only happens every so often. 
 

3. Pass rusher who has no regard for his health or safety and will eventually end up in prison.

4. God complex wide receiver.

5. God complex corner

6. Corn-fed center. 

[Jet2020]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Drafting a TE at #15 overall is a dicey game. You’re saying the Jets should’ve drafted arguably the least valuable position on offense over the most important position on defense? A position that traditionally has a fairly steep learning curve in the NFL? When the team already has two vets and a third rounder from last year at the position? Just no. I know people are all over offense nowadays, but an edge specializing in strip sacks will do more for Rodgers and the team than a rookie TE.  

I’m sure Chiefs disagree. Also, a part time undersized rotation LB is hardly “the most important position on defense”. This guy is going to get bullied in the NFL on first and second down. Probably won’t be causing many 3rd downs himself either. But do tell how he’s the next Lawrence Taylor. 

[slats]

14 minutes ago, Jet2020 said:

I’m sure Chiefs disagree. Also, a part time undersized rotation LB is hardly “the most important position on defense”. This guy is going to get bullied in the NFL on first and second down. Probably won’t be causing many 3rd downs himself either. But do tell how he’s the next Lawrence Taylor. 

Not sure how drafting Travis Kelce in the third round would have them advocating drafting a TE in the first. Like a lot of TEs entering the league, he needed an adjustment period, too. He appeared in one game his rookie year for zero stats. 

[T0mShane]

21 minutes ago, Jet2020 said:

I’m sure Chiefs disagree. Also, a part time undersized rotation LB is hardly “the most important position on defense”. This guy is going to get bullied in the NFL on first and second down. Probably won’t be causing many 3rd downs himself either. But do tell how he’s the next Lawrence Taylor. 

Kelce is the Tom Brady of TEs. You’re never going to replicate that kind of draft luck and everybody who tries absolutely face-plants

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

I think within two years the consensus on McDonald will be “how the hell did he last to 15?”…..

April showers bring May flowers….and a metric ton of Jets Fan optimism.

[derp]

25 minutes ago, slats said:

Not sure how drafting Travis Kelce in the third round would have them advocating drafting a TE in the first. Like a lot of TEs entering the league, he needed an adjustment period, too. He appeared in one game his rookie year for zero stats. 

Yeah, drafting tight ends is about drafting good athletes who will stick their nose in to block, giving them time to develop, and hoping they figure it out. And since it’s kind of a crapshoot you do that later, not earlier. Really like what the Jets have done at the position the last two drafts from a process standpoint.

[derp]

57 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

For context, I’ve been doing some reflection about how I rank NFL draft prospects by position, and what that list looks like is this:

1. QB like Phil Simms who has seen some sh*t and doesn’t lose games by himself.

2. An OT (left or right) who plays for ten years and you don’t worry about them until they’re facing a top-5 EDGE, which only happens every so often. 
 

3. Pass rusher who has no regard for his health or safety and will eventually end up in prison.

4. God complex wide receiver.

5. God complex corner

6. Corn-fed center. 

If you get any of those it’s a win, any of them cheap is a huge win.

The other thing I’ve liked about how Douglas has been drafting - admitting the jury is very much out - is the general concept behind picks. Offensive linemen who pass protect, defensive linemen who rush the passer, defensive backs who cover.

Not so much the run stuffing defensive linemen and box safeties in the first.

[JohnnyLV]

5 hours ago, derp said:

If you get any of those it’s a win, any of them cheap is a huge win.

The other thing I’ve liked about how Douglas has been drafting - admitting the jury is very much out - is the general concept behind picks. Offensive linemen who pass protect, defensive linemen who rush the passer, defensive backs who cover.

Not so much the run stuffing defensive linemen and box safeties in the first.

To be honest I am starting to seriously question his drafting philosophy. 

Last year's draft was great, but he drafted the consensus best corner, WR and RB in the draft. They were no brainers. 

Outside of that the year before he gave away huge resources again for AVT also the consensus best inside lineman.

Setting aside those picks JJ, Clemons and Mitchell look like solid JAG + fringe starters but Outside of that nothing really there.

And to be honest this seems like a vintage Jets draft. Reach in the first for the 3rd or 4th rated EDGE when you could have taken the best WR or TE, and Outside of the C a ton of boom bust picks seemingly decided by RAS score alone.

In 3 years if no one other than Tippman is still on this team it would not be shocking.

Free agency has been super dicey Outside of DJ Reed who was a home run.

Basically he made a couple great trades that allowed Us to get a few key players. But the drafts are super iffy and risky. Becton over Wirfs was idiotic and I said it at the time

I have little confidence in JD and basically none in Saleh. We have Rodgers but I still think this team falls apart this year. We have some great building blocks but we are not as strong as people think and that goes back to JD 

 

 

 

[Bobby816]

Tippman is likely the only rookie starter. In reality we should be cheering for Ruckert to to get a lot more snaps this year. He has a ton of upside

[Jet2020]

6 hours ago, slats said:

Not sure how drafting Travis Kelce in the third round would have them advocating drafting a TE in the first. Like a lot of TEs entering the league, he needed an adjustment period, too. He appeared in one game his rookie year for zero stats. 

Do you think if we were to do a redraft, Kelce would still go in the 3rd round?

[Jet2020]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Kelce is the Tom Brady of TEs. You’re never going to replicate that kind of draft luck and everybody who tries absolutely face-plants

Not comparing the two or trying to replicate anything. Just saying taking a tight end at the #15 spot isn’t a bad idea at all. Even if Ki acid is half the player Kelce is, it’ll justify the 15th spot. McDonald would have to be an every down LB to not be considered a bust. Unless he starts adding some weight and strength, you can chalk down a few pancakes a game against his name…assuming he even makes the first and second down D. 

[slats]

3 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

To be honest I am starting to seriously question his drafting philosophy. 

Last year's draft was great, but he drafted the consensus best corner, WR and RB in the draft. They were no brainers. 

Outside of that he gave away huge resources again for AVT also the consensus best inside lineman.

Setting aside those picks JJ, Clemons and Mitchell look like solid JAG + fringe starters but Outside of that nothing really there.

And to be honest this seems like a vintage Jets draft. Reach in the first for the 3rd or 4th rated EDGE when you could have taken the best WR or TE, and Outside of the C a ton of boom bust picks seemingly decided by RAS score alone.

In 3 years if no one other than Tippman is still on this team it would not be shocking.

Free agency has been super dicey Outside of DJ Reed who was a home run.

Basically he made a couple great trades that allowed Us to get a few key players. But the drafts are super iffy and risky. Becton over Wirfs was idiotic and I said it at the time

I have little confidence in JD and basically none in Saleh. We have Rodgers but I still think this team falls apart this year. We have some great building blocks but we are not as strong as people think and that goes back to JD 

He took over a team that had been in the crapper since 2011 or so, run by complete imbeciles in Idzik and Maccagnan. He was saddled with Adam Gase as his head coach. The no brainer, consensus CB and WR last year were oddly the second players taken at their respective positions. Interesting consensus. 
 
He currently has his team expected to make the playoffs and in the championship conversation. We talk about things now like, “we’re gonna cut some NFL caliber players,” instead of, “do we have any NFL caliber players?” We’ve come a long way, and he’s doing it the right way. This team isn’t in an LA Rams situation, pushing major future chips into the pot. He acquired Aaron Rodgers this year and still had first and second round picks to add more talent. When post-Rodgers time arrives, it’ll be one ugly fiscal year and then it’ll be right back on track. He’s added three extra first rounders the last couple years, he can afford to trade one for a first ballot HoF’er. Hopefully a late one. 

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

He took over a team that had been in the crapper since 2011 or so, run by complete imbeciles in Idzik and Maccagnan. He was saddled with Adam Gase as his head coach. The no brainer, consensus CB and WR last year were oddly the second players taken at their respective positions. Interesting consensus. 
 
He currently has his team expected to make the playoffs and in the championship conversation. We talk about things now like, “we’re gonna cut some NFL caliber players,” instead of, “do we have any NFL caliber players?” We’ve come a long way, and he’s doing it the right way. This team isn’t in an LA Rams situation, pushing major future chips into the pot. He acquired Aaron Rodgers this year and still had first and second round picks to add more talent. When post-Rodgers time arrives, it’ll be one ugly fiscal year and then it’ll be right back on track. He’s added three extra first rounders the last couple years, he can afford to trade one for a first ballot HoF’er. Hopefully a late one. 

He turned darnold and adams into hope.  We have a qb for 2-3 yrs.  And in terms of future draft picks the only thing we don’t have is next yrs #1 most likely.  

[rldev]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

To be honest I am starting to seriously question his drafting philosophy. 

Last year's draft was great, but he drafted the consensus best corner, WR and RB in the draft. They were no brainers. 

Outside of that the year before he gave away huge resources again for AVT also the consensus best inside lineman.

Setting aside those picks JJ, Clemons and Mitchell look like solid JAG + fringe starters but Outside of that nothing really there.

And to be honest this seems like a vintage Jets draft. Reach in the first for the 3rd or 4th rated EDGE when you could have taken the best WR or TE, and Outside of the C a ton of boom bust picks seemingly decided by RAS score alone.

In 3 years if no one other than Tippman is still on this team it would not be shocking.

Free agency has been super dicey Outside of DJ Reed who was a home run.

Basically he made a couple great trades that allowed Us to get a few key players. But the drafts are super iffy and risky. Becton over Wirfs was idiotic and I said it at the time

I have little confidence in JD and basically none in Saleh. We have Rodgers but I still think this team falls apart this year. We have some great building blocks but we are not as strong as people think and that goes back to JD 

 

 

 

You got it all figured out already. 

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Jet2020 said:

Not comparing the two or trying to replicate anything. Just saying taking a tight end at the #15 spot isn’t a bad idea at all. Even if Ki acid is half the player Kelce is, it’ll justify the 15th spot. McDonald would have to be an every down LB to not be considered a bust. Unless he starts adding some weight and strength, you can chalk down a few pancakes a game against his name…assuming he even makes the first and second down D. 

You can get a half-of-Kelce at TE in the third and fourth round. You’re talking about a 55 catch, 600 yard receiver. You just described Tyler Conklin

[Jet2020]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

You can get a half-of-Kelce at TE in the third and fourth round. You’re talking about a 55 catch, 600 yard receiver. You just described Tyler Conklin

While being double teamed? DC game planning around you and how to limit your effect? You’re comparing apples with oranges. 

[New York Mick]

22 hours ago, Jet2020 said:

Should’ve been Kincaid. 

I don’t think he would of lasted till the 7th round 

[Jet2020]

49 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

I don’t think he would of lasted till the 7th round 

[Rangers9]

We didn’t draft a skill position player on offense until round 7. And that was Kunz who’s obviously a big question mark. Last season Jets drafted Ruckert in 3rd round and he’s been a disappointment so far he only had one reception for 8 yards all season and wasn’t activated in some games. We could have selected Mayer but Jets passed on him. And some good wide receivers on board when we drafted. So I’d go with Tippman a guy we can really use. The question is is he better than Schmitz who Jets passed on and selected by Giants. It was a surprise esp after taking McDonald they chose Tippmsn over him all rumors were they’d take Schmitz if on the board at 2. 

[RevisIsland610]

5 hours ago, johnnysd said:

To be honest I am starting to seriously question his drafting philosophy. 

Last year's draft was great, but he drafted the consensus best corner, WR and RB in the draft. They were no brainers. 

Outside of that the year before he gave away huge resources again for AVT also the consensus best inside lineman.

Setting aside those picks JJ, Clemons and Mitchell look like solid JAG + fringe starters but Outside of that nothing really there.

And to be honest this seems like a vintage Jets draft. Reach in the first for the 3rd or 4th rated EDGE when you could have taken the best WR or TE, and Outside of the C a ton of boom bust picks seemingly decided by RAS score alone.

In 3 years if no one other than Tippman is still on this team it would not be shocking.

Free agency has been super dicey Outside of DJ Reed who was a home run.

Basically he made a couple great trades that allowed Us to get a few key players. But the drafts are super iffy and risky. Becton over Wirfs was idiotic and I said it at the time

I have little confidence in JD and basically none in Saleh. We have Rodgers but I still think this team falls apart this year. We have some great building blocks but we are not as strong as people think and that goes back to JD 

 

 

 

The guy drafted the DROY and OROY in the same year and if Hall didn't get hurt he probably wins OROY but I guess any GM could do that right? If they were all no brainers why weren't they picked earlier by other teams. Wilson was picked 10th and Hall in the 2nd round. AVT was also a great get the year before and the trade up was justified. Obviously this draft didn't have 4 picks in the first 36 so it will be less impactful but I still like most of the picks. Every GM makes mistakes but JD has built a pretty damn good roster that was a competent QB away from making the playoffs. Now they have one of the best. 

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

We didn’t draft a skill position player on offense until round 7. And that was Kunz who’s obviously a big question mark. Last season Jets drafted Ruckert in 3rd round and he’s been a disappointment so far he only had one reception for 8 yards all season and wasn’t activated in some games. We could have selected Mayer but Jets passed on him. And some good wide receivers on board when we drafted. So I’d go with Tippman a guy we can really use. The question is is he better than Schmitz who Jets passed on and selected by Giants. It was a surprise esp after taking McDonald they chose Tippmsn over him all rumors were they’d take Schmitz if on the board at 2. 

RBs aren’t “skill position player[s]” any more?

 

[Rangers9]

12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

RBs aren’t “skill position player[s]” any more?

 

You’re right I forgot about him and he’s a good player and might be our offensive rookie of the year. 

[derp]

5 hours ago, johnnysd said:

To be honest I am starting to seriously question his drafting philosophy. 

Last year's draft was great, but he drafted the consensus best corner, WR and RB in the draft. They were no brainers. 

Outside of that the year before he gave away huge resources again for AVT also the consensus best inside lineman.

Setting aside those picks JJ, Clemons and Mitchell look like solid JAG + fringe starters but Outside of that nothing really there.

And to be honest this seems like a vintage Jets draft. Reach in the first for the 3rd or 4th rated EDGE when you could have taken the best WR or TE, and Outside of the C a ton of boom bust picks seemingly decided by RAS score alone.

In 3 years if no one other than Tippman is still on this team it would not be shocking.

Free agency has been super dicey Outside of DJ Reed who was a home run.

Basically he made a couple great trades that allowed Us to get a few key players. But the drafts are super iffy and risky. Becton over Wirfs was idiotic and I said it at the time

I have little confidence in JD and basically none in Saleh. We have Rodgers but I still think this team falls apart this year. We have some great building blocks but we are not as strong as people think and that goes back to JD 

 

 

 

A few things.

Don’t think you really touched on the main point of my post which was generally that he’s drafting guys for their abilities in the passing game, which is important given it’s a distinction from prior GM’s.

Gardner, Wilson, and Hall were not the consensus top players at their position. All were debated. In fact, Gardner and Wilson weren’t the top players drafted at their positions.

I would’ve liked JSN but I get why they didn’t do it. Tight end likely would’ve been a disaster. Really hard position to draft in the first, track record is horrible. Developing Kuntz seems more prudent.

Free agency has been super dicey and I didn’t like pouring picks into the AVT trade. Also didn’t like the trade up for Johnson. Glad he moved down this year.

In my opinion the most egregious decision he made was turning down picks to draft Zach Wilson and I said it at the time - but I know we aren’t on the same page there. Becton over Wirfs was bad but Wilson and the haul he could’ve gotten there was an all time bad decision.

[David Harris]

8 hours ago, johnnysd said:

To be honest I am starting to seriously question his drafting philosophy. 

Last year's draft was great, but he drafted the consensus best corner, WR and RB in the draft. They were no brainers. 

Outside of that the year before he gave away huge resources again for AVT also the consensus best inside lineman.

Setting aside those picks JJ, Clemons and Mitchell look like solid JAG + fringe starters but Outside of that nothing really there.

And to be honest this seems like a vintage Jets draft. Reach in the first for the 3rd or 4th rated EDGE when you could have taken the best WR or TE, and Outside of the C a ton of boom bust picks seemingly decided by RAS score alone.

In 3 years if no one other than Tippman is still on this team it would not be shocking.

Free agency has been super dicey Outside of DJ Reed who was a home run.

Basically he made a couple great trades that allowed Us to get a few key players. But the drafts are super iffy and risky. Becton over Wirfs was idiotic and I said it at the time

I have little confidence in JD and basically none in Saleh. We have Rodgers but I still think this team falls apart this year. We have some great building blocks but we are not as strong as people think and that goes back to JD 

 

 

 

I love JD but this is mostly true