Since striking out on Zach, JD has done the following ..

[jgb]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

You guys trying to hang Zach Wilson around Mike LaFleur’s neck are operating in complete and total defiance of every shred of available evidence.

Years from now when Zach is on @Jetsfan80’s list of QBs who sucked and never became good, they will be saying “Yeah but LaFleur irrevocably broke him.”

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Years from now when Zach is on @Jetsfan80’s list of QBs who sucked and never became good, they will be saying “Yeah but LaFleur irrevocably broke him.”

There are still people out there who blame Adam Gase for Darnold's failures in Carolina.

[jgb]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

There are still people out there who blame Adam Gase for Darnold's failures in Carolina.

But Rich Gannon.

[Reasonable Jets Fan]

On 6/3/2023 at 3:10 PM, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

The trend is our friend.  Feel free to disagree with my player assessments and please add your own.

At a high level, more & bigger hits than misses + a net bullish group of prospects.

Hits

1. AVT (‘21 draft):  top 3 RG + quality tackle

2. Carter II (‘21 draft):  top 5 slot corner

3. Quincy Williams (waivers):  good starting LB

4. DJ Reed (‘22 FA):  top 3 #2 corner

5. Sauce (‘22 draft):  arguably best CB in NFL

6. Garrett (‘22 draft):  a true #1 WR

7. Breece (‘22 draft):  there are no words 

8. Rodgers (‘23 trade):  tbd but JD gets a ‘hit’ for acquiring a franchise QB who (unlike Favre) seems happy to be here & motivated to win a title 

Misses

1. Moore (‘21 draft):  me first attitude when things got tough.  Traded for equivalent of a 3rd after showing promise early

2. Flacco (‘22 FA):  why??

3. Tomlinson (‘22 FA):  looked lost

4. Joyner (‘22 FA):  looked old

5. Berrios (‘22 FA):  miscast + went backwards on specials 

 

How can you tell?

1. Conklin/Uzomah w/ MiLF calling the plays & Zach throwing the ball

2. Brown playing LT w/ a torn rotator cuff

 

Bullish on..

- Sherwood (looked good in preseason & limited playing time vs Bills).  Possibly the #1 reason we haven’t brought back Kwon

- Johnson (already a strong run defender, upside as pass rusher)

- Clemons (dominant as a rookie stopping the run; moving to the inside to scare the hell out of … I mean rush the passer)

- Ruckert (turn on his Miami film; has been flashing in OTAs)

- Mitchell (3 sacks in almost 400 reps last year; 2 of them the QBs fault)

 

Bearish on ..

- Carter (was he hurt last year?)

- Nasirildeen (expect him to be cut)

But how many will make more then 10% of the cap

[JETS SB]

I was just curious if anyone knows if Zach Wilson sucks. Asking for a friend. 

[CSNY]

2 hours ago, JETS SB said:

I was just curious if anyone knows if Zach Wilson sucks. Asking for a friend. 

You can tell your friend, yes Zach sucks 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

The count is 0-2 with Zach but it's not a strike out until he is off the roster. I'm leaning toward colossal bust, but it is not out of the realm of possibility that Zach ends up being a good QB. Sitting for two years behind Aaron Rodgers is possibly the best scenario for Zach. If he still sucks donkey nuts after four years of development, we will know that it was Zach and not his circumstances. 

I'm convinced that the joint practice with the Packers and our victory over them in 2022 is why Rodgers is here. He took a liking to Zach and what this team is trying to build. 

[JustInFudge]

On 6/4/2023 at 2:52 AM, johnnysd said:

Saying we "struck out" on Zach is just such a lazy take. But Jets fans just hate Zach and have from before he even took a snap so why would anyone see the other factors at work.

Drafting a historic bust and saying they "struck out" is a lazy take?  Seems more like a fact that for some reason is very hard for you to accept, dude is worse then Jamarcus Russell.  And I love how those of you who littered the board for months shouting down anyone that raised a concern about Wilson are now acting like the "haters" were the vocal majority and that is 100000x further from the truth.  95% of this board was head over heels in love w/ Wilson, w/ you leading the charge calling him the best prosect you've ever seen.  Those of us saying, hold up, wait, there are huge red flags, were by far the vocal minority.  There was like 10 of us vs. hundreds of supports. 

 

[Dunnie]

Drafting a historic bust and saying they "struck out" is a lazy take?  Seems more like a fact that for some reason is very hard for you to accept, dude is worse then Jamarcus Russell.  And I love how those of you who littered the board for months shouting down anyone that raised a concern about Wilson are now acting like the "haters" were the vocal majority and that is 100000x further from the truth.  95% of this board was head over heels in love w/ Wilson, w/ you leading the charge calling him the best prosect you've ever seen.  Those of us saying, hold up, wait, there are huge red flags, were by far the vocal minority.  There was like 10 of us vs. hundreds of supports. 
 

JIF ... Giving up on a kid with less than 2 seasons worth of gameplay seems a bit over reactive no ? The Jets did the right thing bringing in Rodgers because the level of talent in this team grew faster than the rookie QB .... But that doesn't mean that ultimately you don't try and make it work with your investment in the 2nd overall pick if you think there is a chance.

We are not in practice ... So we don't really know.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[bicketybam]

Victory laps.....victory laps everywhere!

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

JIF ... Giving up on a kid with less than 2 seasons worth of gameplay seems a bit over reactive no ? The Jets did the right thing bringing in Rodgers because the level of talent in this team grew faster than the rookie QB .... But that doesn't mean that ultimately you don't try and make it work with your investment in the 2nd overall pick if you think there is a chance.

We are not in practice ... So we don't really know.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Thanks for this beautiful post but I never said anything about current state Wilson and whether to give up or continue to develop.  Quite frankly, I dont care what the Jets do w/ Wilson, I would personally trade him because I think it's the best thing for the kid but the fact is, currently he's one of the biggest busts in NFL history and his presence is completely irrelevant in my eyes until the inevitable change at QB and then I'll cross that bridge. 

What my post addressed, is this idea that JN was vocally opposed to Zach Wilson before the draft and that the majority of the board hated him before he took a snap.  That that is so untrue it's laughable and it's very strange way to shift blame from Zach to Jets fans, for some weird woe is me, I was wrong rationale.  And as someone who was constantly shot down anytime I brought up a red flag, I'm not going stay silent now that this narrative is trying to be sold as fact.

[JustInFudge]

21 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Fields >>>>>>> Zach.  He’s at least exciting to watch.  

Prepare for heads to explode when Fields has a Jalen Hurts like explosion this season....

[JustInFudge]

20 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Benching Zach tore this team apart.

 

Holy sh*t man...this is like 3rd dimension type sh*t. 

[The Crusher]

11 minutes ago, JiF said:

Thanks for this beautiful post but I never said anything about current state Wilson and whether to give up or continue to develop.  Quite frankly, I dont care what the Jets do w/ Wilson, I would personally trade him because I think it's the best thing for the kid but the fact is, currently he's one of the biggest busts in NFL history and his presence is completely irrelevant in my eyes until the inevitable change at QB and then I'll cross that bridge. 

What my post addressed, is this idea that JN was vocally opposed to Zach Wilson before the draft and that the majority of the board hated him before he took a snap.  That that is so untrue it's laughable and it's very strange way to shift blame from Zach to Jets fans, for some weird woe is me, I was wrong rationale.  And as someone who was constantly shot down anytime I brought up a red flag, I'm not going stay silent now that this narrative is trying to be sold as fact.

If his billionaire uncle  really loved him he would get the NFL to put an expansion team in Utah and trade for his nephew. Call it Salt Lake Blue! I’d be a fan. 

[The Crusher]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

Prepare for heads to explode when Fields has a Jalen Hurts like explosion this season....

Yeah, but hoping Bears can surround him with talent like they did for Jalen in Philadelphia is a whole other birthday cake to blow out the candles out on and make a wish! 

[JustInFudge]

12 hours ago, T0mShane said:

You guys trying to hang Zach Wilson around Mike LaFleur’s neck are operating in complete and total defiance of every shred of available evidence.

You have to wonder, if it werent for Lil Mikey, does Mike White go from camp fodder to one fastest signed back-ups in FA who happened to go to one of the most potent offenses in the NFL to back up a QB who 1 hit from severe brain damage? 

[The Crusher]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

You have to wonder, if it werent for Lil Mikey, does Mike White go from camp fodder to one fastest signed back-ups in FA who happened to go to one of the most potent offenses in the NFL to back up a QB who 1 hit from severe brain damage? 

So Mike White’s contract in Miami is because of his penis? Nice!! 

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Yeah, but hoping Bears can surround him with talent like they did for Jalen in Philadelphia is a whole other birthday cake to blow out the candles out on and make a wish! 

lmfao - true but I like what the Bears did this offseason.  They had a historically a bad OL and arguably the worst rosters in the NFL.  They went out and singed Nate Davis, drafted a T in the 1st.  I love the DJ Moore trade, Robert Tunyan gives them a solid TE combo.  They still have a long way to go but I think they made some strides.

[LIJetsFan]

42 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

JIF ... Giving up on a kid with less than 2 seasons worth of gameplay seems a bit over reactive no ? The Jets did the right thing bringing in Rodgers because the level of talent in this team grew faster than the rookie QB .... But that doesn't mean that ultimately you don't try and make it work with your investment in the 2nd overall pick if you think there is a chance.

We are not in practice ... So we don't really know.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

The bold is well said and exactly what happened and why it's so gauling. Having the 39th best (worst) QB under center sux.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

JIF ... Giving up on a kid with less than 2 seasons worth of gameplay seems a bit over reactive no ? 

Haha oh so now he hasn’t played enough games to make a judgment call?

He has “less than 2 seasons” worth of gameplay because:  1) His own suckitide got him benched, and 2) He also can’t stay healthy.

Those are not excuses those are both strikes against him.  

The Cardinals gave up on Josh Rosen after 13 starts.  Can you point me in the direction of the posts you made at that time suggesting the Cardinals were being “over reactive”?

[Rich Thornburgh]

Still needs to sign Foles and Hopkins

[Rich Thornburgh]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

Prepare for heads to explode when Fields has a Jalen Hurts like explosion this season....

Um yeah ok

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Um yeah ok

Sorry that take hurts you, Fido.  Dont worry, you still have rooting against Rodgers going for you.

[Rich Thornburgh]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

Sorry that take hurts you, Fido.  Dont worry, you still have rooting against Rodgers going for you.

Fields is terrible.  Bears are going nowhere fast

[JustInFudge]

28 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Fields is terrible.  Bears are going nowhere fast

Thanks Fido!  I'll book mark this one. 

[#27TheDominator]

On 6/3/2023 at 3:10 PM, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

 

- Mitchell (3 sacks in almost 400 reps last year; 2 of them the QBs fault)

Bearish on ..

- Nasirildeen (expect him to be cut)

I don't think that you can say Mitchell had "almost 400 reps" last year.  He only played 340 offensive snaps.  How many were running plays?  You need to know the drop backs to determine the percentage he is allowing pressure.  I like Mitchell, but I think his health is presumably somewhat in question.

FWIW, Nasrildeen was cut last year.  He was a fringe guy, on the practice squad for most of the year.  They elevated him a few times to play specials and signed him back in mid-December.  6 of 7 defensive snaps came the last few games.  I don't call a fringe special teams guy in the 6th a miss, but he was no heat.  I do miss @DefenseWinsChampionships85 being here to tell me how "he is going to feast!" but I agree that they will probably sign Kwon back and guys like Surratt offer at least as much upside.  FWIW, Sherwood only played 25 snaps last season.  I am not writing him off, but I am pretty far from bullish.

[UntouchableCrew]

My thing with JD (all along) is that he has a process that is smart and makes sense. He gets value, he surrounds himself with good people, he knows how to negotiate, he knows how to build a team.

He's gonna miss but the goal with a good GM is to have a process where you hit 75% of the time instead of 30% of the time (or never like Mike Maccagnan.)

He's the first GM we've had since Parcells where I was confident "this guy knows what he's doing" even if the results have been a mixed bag.

[Biggs]

On 6/3/2023 at 3:50 PM, bicketybam said:

At the end of the day the Niners would have taken Wilson if we traded them the pick. Bit instead they traded up and took Trey Lance with the next pick. But they are a model organization and we suck.

They get a pass because they drafted a top 10 QB in round 40 the following year. 

[jvill 51]

On 6/4/2023 at 9:43 AM, Beerfish said:

He was terrible, he also did not single-handedly sink the season, he never played at the end of the year so white and flacco sunk the season as much and he had a winning record.

We gave up two kick returns in games we lost by a  td or less.

Our all world defense utterly failed in one of the most important things a defense can do, get turnovers and they gave up huge plays at keys times of games

Wilson was bad and may very well never be good in this league but it's all to convenient to blame him for everything about last year, it simply is not the case.

This is true in the sense that yes, at the micro level no one play or player is ever the singular reason for a loss. Bigger picture, the defense in the last 8 games gave up an average of 17.5 points per game, 15.7 if you remove those two special teams TDs, which would have ranked 2nd and 1st overall respectively on the full season, and the Jets went 1-7 in those games. To have went 8-0 in that stretch the Jets defense would have had to have held opponents to 11.5 points per game, or in other words been the best defense in the past 45 years outside of the 2000 Ravens. Conversely, the Jets offense would have had to average 17.6 points over those games to win, which would have ranked 28th in the league this season.

Did the defense give up some plays here and there? Yes. A few times in big spots, and you're right that they didn't force enough turnovers. But this is the NFL in 2023. Teams score points and create big plays and they do it in bunches. If you're expecting your defense to be damn near perfect to be able to win games, you're not going to win a whole lot of games. I'm sick and tired of knowing that the game is over whenever they go down by two scores. I'm sick and tired of knowing by the end of the first that the only way they are going to score that day is by forcing a turnover inside the other team's redzone. This isn't a thing for any semi-competent offense in this day and age.

Instead of asking the Jets defense to be all world, ask the Jets offense to not be bottom of the barrel.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Saw a few clips of OTAs where ZW is still doing his Chuck Knoblauch impression on 5 yard dumpoffs.

Technically a "completion" (because WR is able to adjust and secure it) but dude is still trying to "guide" his passes or "pulling the string" or whatever you want to call it.

I guess that's what Saleh was referring to when he said the #2 overall pick needs to just relax and let it rip and "it doesn't have to be perfect".

[CSNY]

The most concerning things about Zach are that he can’t even complete the most basic of passes and how at the first sign of pressure he runs backwards. He’s got all the physical talent in the world and I can see why JD and others are reluctant to give up on him because of that talent but Until those areas drastically improve and quickly he just isn’t an NFL QB. Hope I’m 100% wrong but man it sure doesn’t look good for Zach 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

13 minutes ago, CSNY said:

The most concerning things about Zach are that he can’t even complete the most basic of passes and how at the first sign of pressure he runs backwards. He’s got all the physical talent in the world and I can see why JD and others are reluctant to give up on him because of that talent but Until those areas drastically improve and quickly he just isn’t an NFL QB. Hope I’m 100% wrong but man it sure doesn’t look good for Zach 

I will never understand how Joe Douglas believed Zach Wilson was a better football player than Jamar Chase, Penei Sewell, Micah Parsons, DeVonta Smith, Justin Fields, etc.

Yet drafting ZW somehow led to the sequence of events which turned into Sauce, GW, JJ, Breece, Michael Clemons, and Rodgers, so in a weird way, it might actually end up working out.

If the Jets win it all this year, nobody (except Dunnie, Hal, and a few other die hards) will care that ZW can’t play in the NFL.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't think that you can say Mitchell had "almost 400 reps" last year.  He only played 340 offensive snaps.  How many were running plays?  You need to know the drop backs to determine the percentage he is allowing pressure.  I like Mitchell, but I think his health is presumably somewhat in question.

FWIW, Nasrildeen was cut last year.  He was a fringe guy, on the practice squad for most of the year.  They elevated him a few times to play specials and signed him back in mid-December.  6 of 7 defensive snaps came the last few games.  I don't call a fringe special teams guy in the 6th a miss, but he was no heat.  I do miss @DefenseWinsChampionships85 being here to tell me how "he is going to feast!" but I agree that they will probably sign Kwon back and guys like Surratt offer at least as much upside.  FWIW, Sherwood only played 25 snaps last season.  I am not writing him off, but I am pretty far from bullish.

I went off memory on the Mitchell snap count.  So 340 it is.

Forest thru the trees though, he wasn't even supposed to play as he built his strength up to the NFL level.  He impressed the coaching staff enough to get the chance before getting hurt and then ill.

As for my memory on his sacks, 1 was a bad one in his last game before he was pulled and then announced out for the rest of the year due to illness.

One was a 'coverage sack' that Zach walked right into.

Another was a strip sack against the Browns that Flacco dropped too far back into.

The guy showed great feet and a high IQ.  Excited for his future development.

You own the right to your opinions on the 2 LBs.  I'm not here to change them.  I'm personally bullish because of what Sherwood showed in preseason and those 25 snaps (mostly against the Bills).  The other hasn't shown anything and my reading of the tea leaves is that he is not destined for the roster.  

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

2 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

My thing with JD (all along) is that he has a process that is smart and makes sense. He gets value, he surrounds himself with good people, he knows how to negotiate, he knows how to build a team.

He's gonna miss but the goal with a good GM is to have a process where you hit 75% of the time instead of 30% of the time (or never like Mike Maccagnan.)

He's the first GM we've had since Parcells where I was confident "this guy knows what he's doing" even if the results have been a mixed bag.

Amen.  Look what he did in this offseason's other trade, involving a guy who I have as a miss because he is no longer on the Jets.

Moore and this year's 3rd

for

Tippmann and Lazard

The trade gave him the ammo to get the #1 Center on the Jets draft board while replacing 1 talented but underperforming/disgruntled slot WR with a less talented but successful/happy-to-be-here slot WR who immediately helps them in the red zone.  You'd have to add the net cost to get Lazard over Moore's rookie pay deal which is in the $8-9 incremental million annual range.  

 

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, CSNY said:

The most concerning things about Zach are that he can’t even complete the most basic of passes and how at the first sign of pressure he runs backwards. He’s got all the physical talent in the world and I can see why JD and others are reluctant to give up on him because of that talent but Until those areas drastically improve and quickly he just isn’t an NFL QB. Hope I’m 100% wrong but man it sure doesn’t look good for Zach 

One wonders what he’s been doing all off-season if he still struggles with the basics.