Facts Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 And yeah, Q is much better than their guy but the point is SMART teams don't pay an interior d-linemen over 10% of the cap. This is what JD should be telling Q right now: 3 1 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jetsfan80 Posted June 3, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2023 This would be a compelling argument if the cap didn't go up every year. 10 % of the cap in today's money could easily be 6 % by 2025. But sure. Let's make up arbitrary rules for the do's and don'ts of DT spending. 23 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bronx Posted June 3, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2023 Quinnen Williams will get paid 25 million dollars a year, end of story. 15 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: This would be a compelling argument if the cap didn't go up every year. 10 % of the cap in today's money could easily be 6 % by 2025 Yeah this is not how NFL math works. If Q gets what he wants ($30M per season), it would take the cap going up $80M to get under 10%. Historically, it takes nearly a DECADE for the cap to go up that much. 5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: But sure. Let's make up arbitrary rules for the do's and don'ts of DT spending. How arbitrary is it if the REST OF THE NFL does it my way? The rest of the NFL spends, on average 7.5% of their cap on interior d-linemen. All of them. Combined 7.5%. For Numerous interior d-linemen. You want to spend 10% on ONE player. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, Bronx said: Quinnen Williams will get paid 25 million dollars a year, end of story. Probably. Unfortunately. Stupidly. 1 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post slimjasi Posted June 3, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2023 You already tried to make this argument like a week ago And it’s still nonsense you pay your best impact players the big bucks. Yes, your impact players are more likely to play premium positions (QB, OT, WR, Edge, CB), but not always. QW is an impact player and the Jets are going to pay him whether you like it or not. 13 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, slimjasi said: You already tried to make this argument like a week ago And it’s still nonsense Sounds like what someone would say when they can't refute the argument. Smart teams don't pay interior d-line men 10%+ of the cap. They just don't. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe W. Namath Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 I hope the Jets will not follow anything the buffalo bills are doing. That teams has never won anything. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry McCockinner Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Joe W. Namath said: I hope the Jets will not follow anything the buffalo bills are doing. That teams has never won anything. I bet the Chiefs wont pay 10% of their cap to Chris Jones either. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lith Posted June 3, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, Facts said: I bet the Chiefs wont pay 10% of their cap to Chris Jones either. He is at 12.83% right now. And he was at 14% last year when they won the SB 2 2 6 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 22 minutes ago, Lith said: He is at 12.83% right now. You're looking at 1 single year, not the contract average. Teams front load and backload deals all the time. We are talking about over the whole average of the contract what is the %. He has ranged from 6% to 14% over the years, but his average is only 8%. In NFL HISTORY there has only been 1 IDL player EVER who had 10% or more over the course of a contract. In the history of the NFL. All time. I've researched this so much I could write a dissertation on the topic. 3 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 14.5 sacks. In four seasons.But keep comparing apples to oranges. Makes a compelling story.Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 Just now, jamesr said: 14.5 sacks. In four seasons. But keep comparing apples to oranges. Makes a compelling story. Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk How about we compare apples to the apple orchard. The rest of the NFL? The 31 other teams? They pay their ENTIRE INTERIOR D-LINE UNIT (meaning, all the players combined) 7.5% of the cap on average. You want to pay ONE player (not an entire unit) 10% of the cap. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCJet Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 21 minutes ago, Facts said: Probably. Unfortunately. Stupidly. Why is paying him market value stupid? Lets instead get rid of him for draft picks that we hope will be as good in 2 years. Do you know how much better of a player QW is then Ed Oliver? QW has 191 tackles and 27.5 sacks while Oliver has 151 and 14.5 and thats with QW in this ridiculous rotation we have where he should be playing about 10% more of the snaps then he does. Paying Oliver $16 for what is basically is basically JFM's production (16 sacks over the same time frame) is more of an overpay then paying QW $24-25 for elite production. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lith Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, Facts said: You're looking at 1 single year, not the contract average. And Qs contract likely will work the same way, will be below 10% first couple of years and increase in the later years. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 Just now, Lith said: And Qs contract likely will work the same way, will be below 10% first couple of years and increase in the later years. Just FYI - I pressed the wrong gif. I would never be that rude. I fixed it after I clicked submit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jethead Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 Who cares? Ed Oliver sucks. $10.00 is an overpayment. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, BCJet said: Why is paying him market value stupid? Lets instead get rid of him for draft picks that we hope will be as good in 2 years. Do you know how much better of a player QW is then Ed Oliver yeah Q is a great player No argument there. The point is, you don't pay interior d-linemen 10% of your cap. You just don't. What it has been leaked that Q wants is essentially over 10% of the cap. That's not smart football team amangement. Just because the market rate for a gold plated apple is $100,000 doesnt mean that YOU should spend $100k on a gold plated apple. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 In other words, we want to be the Titans in this Haynesworth situation. Not Washington. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sperm Edwards Posted June 3, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2023 13 minutes ago, Facts said: You're looking at 1 single year, not the contract average. Teams front load and backload deals all the time. We are talking about over the whole average of the contract what is the %. He has ranged from 4% to 14% over the years, but his average is only 8%. In NFL HISTORY there has only been 1 IDL player EVER who had 10% or more over the course of a contract. In the history of the NFL. All time. I've researched this so much I could write a dissertation on the topic. Are you really counting his rookie contract that ran through 2019? 3 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said: Are you really counting his rookie contract that ran through 2019? Basic math. His contract is 4 year, $80M. That's $20M per season or 8% of the cap. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 Or are you just counting the pre-balloon years of his $20MM/yr deal? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCJet Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Facts said: yeah Q is a great player No argument there. The point is, you don't pay interior d-linemen 10% of your cap. You just don't. What it has been leaked that Q wants is essentially over 10% of the cap. That's not smart football team amangement. Just because the market rate for a gold plated apple is $100,000 doesnt mean that YOU should spend $100k on a gold plated apple. Your point on IDL is true, UNLESS they are also excellent pass rushers which QW happens to be. If he was an edge getting 12.5 sacks then the contract would be worth it? I would actually argue he is more valuable then someone like von miller who cant play the run. QW, when healthy, really is a game wrecking type guy who can make an impact on any play. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sperm Edwards Posted June 3, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2023 Just now, Facts said: Basic math. His contract is 4 year, $80M. That's $20M per season or 8% of the cap. You realize he didn’t just sign it, right? When he signed it, $20MM was more than 10% of the cap. 4 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 30 minutes ago, Facts said: Sounds like what someone would say when they can't refute the argument. Smart teams don't pay interior d-line men 10%+ of the cap. They just don't. I refuted the argument in the very next sentence and it has been refuted many times before that 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowles Movement Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 32 minutes ago, Facts said: Sounds like what someone would say when they can't refute the argument. Smart teams don't pay interior d-line men 10%+ of the cap. They just don't. Smart people dont make arbritrary rules and then rigidly stick to them. They just don’t! 1 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: You realize he didn’t just sign it, right? When he signed it, $20MM was more than 10% of the cap. On a full contract average to the salary cap... 2021: 10% 2022: 9% 2023: 8% 2024: 8% What is the average, Sperm? EDIT: last year is 8% too... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 Just now, Bowles Movement said: Smart people dont make arbritrary rules and then rigidly stick to them. They just don’t! This is not my rule. it's a league wide STANDARD. The rest of the league only pays their ENTIRE INTERIOR D-LINE 7.5% of the cap. You want to pay ONE player more than the average league team pays ALL FOUR (or more) of their interior d-linemen combined. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sperm Edwards Posted June 3, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2023 6 hours ago, Facts said: 2023: 10% 2022: 9% 2023: 8% 2021: 7.5% What is the average, Sperm? You’re doing fake math: grading contract average as a percentage of the cap in y3 for Jones and y1 for QW. Not even y1 for QW, seeing how he’s already under contract for the season & this extension would have the bonus start amortizing now but technically y1 is in 2024. The apples to apples comparison would be $25MM as a percentage of the cap in 2026. -- Never mind his % of the cap in 2021 was 11% not 7.5% if you want to use contract average. It seems you want to selectively use cap number and contract average. If you want to use $20MM average then you can start with 11% not 7.5% for 2021 and go from there. If you want to use cap number, then his $28MM cap number is 13% of the 2023 cap number. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnold's Forehead Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 21 minutes ago, Facts said: You're looking at 1 single year, not the contract average. Teams front load and backload deals all the time. We are talking about over the whole average of the contract what is the %. He has ranged from 4% to 14% over the years, but his average is only 8%. In NFL HISTORY there has only been 1 IDL player EVER who had 10% or more over the course of a contract. In the history of the NFL. All time. I've researched this so much I could write a dissertation on the topic. So if we pay him above 10% and somehow win the SB what will happen to your argument? How can you say “It’s not smart to do X” when no one has ever done X before? Times change. You have no way of telling whether a premium DT will be more or less valuable in the future. All I know is that this team is better with Q than without, because it is not a guarantee that the Jets will be able to replace him with an equally talented player at a more premium position. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jetsfan80 Posted June 3, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Facts said: Basic math. His contract is 4 year, $80M. That's $20M per season or 8% of the cap. Just now, Sperm Edwards said: You realize he didn’t just sign it, right? When he signed it, $20MM was more than 10% of the cap. 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 9 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: You’re doing fake math: grading contract average as a percentage of the cap in This is just basic math. No one is including Jones' amortization with his rookie contract. His contractual value to the cap is 8%. What Q wants is over 10%. You look at the entire contract as a percentage of the cap. Only one player EVERRRRRR (IDL) has gotten that sweetheart deal. And that player is a first ballot HOF who is a freak of nature. 9 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: y3 for Jones and y1 for QW. Wrong. I've already worked the future numbers for Q. If he gets what he wants, it will take a $80M cap increase for us to just BREAK EVEN at 10%. For him to get to 8% (like Chris Jones) it would take a $100M cap incrase. On average, across NFL history, it has taken a DECADE or more to go up $100M. Q's contract won't be a decade long and therefore he will NEVER outrun the 10%. So no, I am not looking at y1 for Q. I am looking at the entirety of the contract! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facts Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 The best thing about this is... we will all find out who is right eventually. All we need is TIME. In a couple years, may of you will be saying "Facts was right". And the rest of you will be pretending like you never argued with me about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowles Movement Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Facts said: This is not my rule. it's a league wide STANDARD. The rest of the league only pays their ENTIRE INTERIOR D-LINE 7.5% of the cap. You want to pay ONE player more than the average league team pays ALL FOUR (or more) of their interior d-linemen combined. Sorry Thats just dumb. Those teams dont have Quinnen Williams or Aaron Donald. You play the best players that you need to make your scheme and lead your team. That could be Sauce next. It was Mosely before. Some day we may have a great game wrecking edge rusher that we have to pay but until the Quinnen is our most valuable defensive player. We have a young cheap defense, we can afford him. I dont care how other teams pay their players. 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.