2023 Roster versus 2019 (When JD was hired)

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

Comliments of jetsxfactor.com.  Yes, I know I need to charge my phone ;).  I also need to mow the lawn.

What stands out the most to you?
 

 

 

 

 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

The only player I would have wanted to try to keep in retrospect (rather than selling low) was Leonard Williams.  I recall getting a third rounder.  Anyways, I’m sure there were some contract reasons that drove the trade ..  but he’s a very good player who’s had 25 sacks over the past 3 years.  

Other than him, that’s a roster that needed to be fully turned over.

[Alka]

14 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

The only player I would have wanted to try to keep in retrospect (rather than selling low) was Leonard Williams.  I recall getting a third rounder.  Anyways, I’m sure there were some contract reasons that drove the trade ..  but he’s a very good player who’s had 25 sacks over the past 3 years.  

Other than him, that’s a roster that needed to be fully turned over.

Wait a minute grasshopper!!!  #1 Leonard Williams got a total of 20.5 sacks over the course of the last 3 years, not 25.  #2 His sacks have gone down significantly over the last 3 years.  11.5 sacks in 2020; 6.5 sacks in 2021, and only 2.5 sacks in 2022.

Williams is in the final year of his 3 year deal with the Giants. 

His cap number for this coming year is a whopping $32.26 Million dollars!!!  

Now, in retrospect, would you still want Leonard Williams on our team right now?  I wouldn't!  I mean, he is a nice player, but he is nowhere near a $32.26 Million dollar player.

 

[Bronx]

Trumaine Johnson...

[Joe W. Namath]

Joe D is the best , young gm in the league.  W/o him, rodgers is not on this team.

Thank you Joe Douglas!  Thank you!!

[Bowles Movement]

There isnt one player on the 2019 team that I could argue was clearly better than his 2023 counterpart.

[LAD_Brooklyn]

With that dreadful roster assembled by Big Mac, we earned the 2nd overall pick in the draft. That pick was later used to draft the biggest bust in Jets history.

Meanwhile we could have entertained getting 3 1st that ended up being the 12th ('21), 29th and 103rd ('22) and the 29th overall pick ('23). 

With a 20-46 record, I'm glad he got to construct the team to a T how he wants it and it's definitely a championship level roster. Hopefully he delivers therefore we can expunge his past results from memory. 

[Bronx]

1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Because of Joe D, my man Jimmy G is not on this team.

What have you done Joe Douglas, what have you done?

[Beerfish]

Mike McCagnan winning % = .388 (Max wins 10)

John Idzik winning % = .375 (Max wins 😎

Joe Douglas winning % - =.260 (Max wins 7)

Playoffs?   Playoffs?  You talkin bout playoffs?  I just hope we can win a game!

[JetsFanatic]

4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Mike McCagnan winning % = .388 (Max wins 10)

John Idzik winning % = .375 (Max wins 😎

Joe Douglas winning % - =.260 (Max wins 7)

Playoffs?   Playoffs?  You talkin bout playoffs?  I just hope we can win a game!

That’s because Douglas tore the team down and rebuilt it.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

14 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

That because Douglas tore the team down and rebuilt it.

That doesn't fit the narrative.  Just ignore that the most successful teams have stability in the front office and allow GMs to build a team. Here on this board, it's win in a few seasons or you're out.  It also ignores that when you have a top pick, you have to take a swing at a QB because if you hit, the franchise wins the lottery.  There is not a single QB from the 2021 draft  outside of Lawrence that looks like an NFL starter.  And if anyone tells you they can tell a Mahomes from a Lance or Darnold based on college tape and scouting, I think they are full of crap.  If the Jets don't screw up the tank in 2020, the Jets have Lawrence with this team and they'd be deciding on a spot for the JD statue outside of MetLife already.  The biggest loss in Jets history may end up being the win over the Rams in 2020.  

[Jet Nut]

39 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Mike McCagnan winning % = .388 (Max wins 10)

John Idzik winning % = .375 (Max wins 😎

Joe Douglas winning % - =.260 (Max wins 7)

Playoffs?   Playoffs?  You talkin bout playoffs?  I just hope we can win a game!

which one had to tear down a miserable roster and rebuild from scratch?  At then of the season who do you think will be the GM who had the best single season record?  Lazy way to judge a GM

I’m sweating it out, hoping we win a game in 2023.  

[jetfan40yrs]

3 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

There isnt one player on the 2019 team that I could argue was clearly better than his 2023 counterpart.

Maybe 2019 C. J. Mosley was better than 2023 C. J. Mosley 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

4 hours ago, Alka said:

Wait a minute grasshopper!!!  #1 Leonard Williams got a total of 20.5 sacks over the course of the last 3 years, not 25.  #2 His sacks have gone down significantly over the last 3 years.  11.5 sacks in 2020; 6.5 sacks in 2021, and only 2.5 sacks in 2022.

Williams is in the final year of his 3 year deal with the Giants. 

His cap number for this coming year is a whopping $32.26 Million dollars!!!  

Now, in retrospect, would you still want Leonard Williams on our team right now?  I wouldn't!  I mean, he is a nice player, but he is nowhere near a $32.26 Million dollar player.

 

I pulled the 25 from PFF so maybe they round up half sacks.

He is still a good player.  I saw that cap number but if you are going to nitpick, how about mentioning his $5M cap number next year and his low cap number last year.

Weird contract structure.

Forest thru the trees, JD has done a good job upgrading the roster.  Let’s not haggle over smaller things.  

[Joe W. Namath]

53 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

That doesn't fit the narrative.  Just ignore that the most successful teams have stability in the front office and allow GMs to build a team. Here on this board, it's win in a few seasons or you're out.  It also ignores that when you have a top pick, you have to take a swing at a QB because if you hit, the franchise wins the lottery.  There is not a single QB from the 2021 draft  outside of Lawrence that looks like an NFL starter.  And if anyone tells you they can tell a Mahomes from a Lance or Darnold based on college tape and scouting, I think they are full of crap.  If the Jets don't screw up the tank in 2020, the Jets have Lawrence with this team and they'd be deciding on a spot for the JD statue outside of MetLife already.  The biggest loss in Jets history may end up being the win over the Rams in 2020.  

This guy gets it.

Joe D and Saleh are here for 10-15 years.  What they have done in a short time is nothing short of a miracle.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Mike McCagnan winning % = .388 (Max wins 10)

John Idzik winning % = .375 (Max wins 😎

Joe Douglas winning % - =.260 (Max wins 7)

Playoffs?   Playoffs?  You talkin bout playoffs?  I just hope we can win a game!

You’ve never built a business or something similar?

Foundation comes first.  Wins come later.  Last year was the first year any fan could have reasonably expected playoffs and we fell short after a promising start.

JD’s miss on Zach, Flacco over White early, and some bad injuries…

It happens.  We failed.  JD & Saleh deserve blame.  

But this roster is very talented and a playoff run should be on the table this year.

No excuses.  This is the year.  If JD wanted early wins, he wouldn’t have traded Leo, Jamal, Sam.  He sacrificed early wins for some chips to get guys like Breece, Garrett, AVT.  Sorry if you can’t see that.  It should be pretty clear.

[GreenFish]

Damn. Complete change. Only the safety position is debatable. We could use a player Maye.

[Maxman]

10 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Comliments of jetsxfactor.com.  Yes, I know I need to charge my phone ;).  I also need to mow the lawn.

What stands out the most to you?
 

 

 

 

 

Hey I saw the word private on that so I deleted the images. Not sure if that was subscription content. But if so, please don't post it here.

The guys at Jets x are cool, but we actually got a few letters from a lawyer on another copyright topic last year. So I just want to be really cautious and respect their work.

Thanks.

[Prodigal Syndicate]

9 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

You’ve never built a business or something similar?

Foundation comes first.  Wins come later.  Last year was the first year any fan could have reasonably expected playoffs and we fell short after a promising start.

JD’s miss on Zach, Flacco over White early, and some bad injuries…

It happens.  We failed.  JD & Saleh deserve blame.  

But this roster is very talented and a playoff run should be on the table this year.

No excuses.  This is the year.  If JD wanted early wins, he wouldn’t have traded Leo, Jamal, Sam.  He sacrificed early wins for some chips to get guys like Breece, Garrett, AVT.  Sorry if you can’t see that.  It should be pretty clear.

Nothing says long term and foundation like trading draft picks for a 40 year old QB.

[jgb]

11 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

That’s because Douglas tore the team down and rebuilt it.

Didn’t they all do that? 😂 

[jgb]

12 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Mike McCagnan winning % = .388 (Max wins 10)

John Idzik winning % = .375 (Max wins 😎

Joe Douglas winning % - =.260 (Max wins 7)

Playoffs?   Playoffs?  You talkin bout playoffs?  I just hope we can win a game!

The “good” news is that Saleh has so far reversed the disturbing trend of each HC having a worse winning percentage than the guy before him for 20+ years. The bad news? Saleh’s winning percentage is still worse than every coach since Kotite not named Gase.

 

So, yeah, optimism is always fine but let’s not go “sucking each others’…” just yet.

[Jetsfan80]

The 2 biggest negatives for JD:

1) Failing to tank the 2020 season properly for the # 1 overall pick (firing Gase midseason and controlling the depth chart from the front office would have accomplished this)

2) The 2020 draft

 

Beyond that I don’t understand how anyone could have a reasonable complaint about how the roster looks.

Win % to date?  That’s what people still want to harp on when we’re just a few months away from legitimately competing for a division title?  

I don’t think some here fully appreciate just how bad Maccagnan was and thus what Douglas needed to do to revamp basically 52 of the 53 roster spots outside of DT1 (Quinnen).  Macc is the worst GM in NFL history and it’s not close.

I mean just look at the names on that 2019 roster.  There’s only 4 players either still here or starting for an NFL team elsewhere:  Quinnen, Mosley, Jamal Adams, and Frankie Luvu (Carolina).  And Adams has missed as many games in Seattle (25) as he’s played in.  

Douglas could have easily spent big in FA to cover the gaps so you whiners could have your precious 8-win seasons.  That wouldn’t have put this franchise in position to be a perennial contender.  

[southparkcpa]

14 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Joe D is the best , young gm in the league.  W/o him, we wouldn't need  rodgers is not on this team.

He right now, is owner of 2 possible large 1st round busts in Becton and Zach.

14 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Thank you Joe Douglas!  Thank you!!

Why did we need Rodgers???

But in general, he has done a good job in almost all other aspects.

[southparkcpa]

22 minutes ago, jgb said:

The “good” news is that Saleh has so far reversed the disturbing trend of each HC having a worse winning percentage than the guy before him for 20+ years. The bad news? Saleh’s winning percentage is still worse than every coach since Kotite not named Gase.

 

So, yeah, optimism is always fine but let’s not go “sucking each others’…” just yet.

and when you post stuff like that, you get neg repped.  2023 IMO is the year to judge Saleh and JD.

[68JET11]

11 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

This guy gets it.

Joe D and Saleh are here for 10-15 years.  What they have done in a short time is nothing short of a miracle.

I can do without Saleh, but JD needs to stay. And Saleh shouldn't get the credit for wins on this team now that AR is QB.

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

I can do without Saleh, but JD needs to stay. And Saleh shouldn't get the credit for wins on this team now that AR is QB.

Defense needs to be top 12 or so or Saleh can go.  

[jgb]

55 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

and when you post stuff like that, you get neg repped.  2023 IMO is the year to judge Saleh and JD.

Neg rep away. I happen to be optimistic about this year FYI, but it isn’t parade time yet is my point.

[T0mShane]

12 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

which one had to tear down a miserable roster and rebuild from scratch?

John Idzik.

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The 2 biggest negatives for JD:

1) Failing to tank the 2020 season properly for the # 1 overall pick (firing Gase midseason and controlling the depth chart from the front office would have accomplished this)

2) The 2020 draft

 

Beyond that I don’t understand how anyone could have a reasonable complaint about how the roster looks.

Win % to date?  That’s what people still want to harp on when we’re just a few months away from legitimately competing for a division title?  

I don’t think some here fully appreciate just how bad Maccagnan was and thus what Douglas needed to do to revamp basically 52 of the 53 roster spots outside of DT1 (Quinnen).  Macc is the worst GM in NFL history and it’s not close.

I mean just look at the names on that 2019 roster.  There’s only 4 players either still here or starting for an NFL team elsewhere:  Quinnen, Mosley, Jamal Adams, and Frankie Luvu (Carolina).  And Adams has missed as many games in Seattle (25) as he’s played in.  

Douglas could have easily spent big in FA to cover the gaps so you whiners could have your precious 8-win seasons.  That wouldn’t have put this franchise in position to be a perennial contender.  

Another point that is a little overlooked is that there is a sense of excitement with this team. Prior to Douglas and going back to Rex/ tanny, there was little reason to be excited about the upcoming seasons. Sure most real fans put on their green glasses but objectively they knew the team was going no where with mccown or hack or even darnold. Fitzy turned out to be a tease and a half.  But this all goes back to the nfl being a business and Douglas has put fannies in the seats and has sold more jets merchandise. That can’t be bad.

[Jet Nut]

52 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

John Idzik.

 Not really. 
Cutting a handful of bad contracts and not replacing the positions vacated really wasn’t the same thing

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 Not really. 
Cutting a handful of bad contracts and not replacing the positions vacated really wasn’t the same thing

Oh absolutely.

[T0mShane]

Trying to rebuild the Mark Sanchez/Shonn Greene/Jeff Cumberland/Kyle Wilson/Jeremy Kerley/Stephen Hill/LaRon Landry/Marty Morninweig 2012 Jets team while Rex is simultaneously stabbing you in the solar plexus to Woody and Manish but, hey, you can open up a whopping $30 mil in cap space by cutting everyone. Super easy. 

[Lith]

13 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Trying to rebuild the Mark Sanchez/Shonn Greene/Jeff Cumberland/Kyle Wilson/Jeremy Kerley/Stephen Hill/LaRon Landry/Marty Morninweig 2012 Jets team while Rex is simultaneously stabbing you in the solar plexus to Woody and Manish but, hey, you can open up a whopping $30 mil in cap space by cutting everyone. Super easy. 

Problem is he replaced those buys with Milliner, Sheldon, Geno, Winters, Pryor, Amaro, McDougle and Saunders.  Those were our top 4 picks in each of Idzik's two drafts.  The cornerstones of the Idzik rebuild.  

Tear down part is easy;  Its the rebuild that is hard. 

[T0mShane]

8 minutes ago, Lith said:

Problem is he replaced those buys with Milliner, Sheldon, Geno, Winters, Pryor, Amaro, McDougle and Saunders.  Those were our top 4 picks in each of Idzik's two drafts.  The cornerstones of the Idzik rebuild.  

Tear down part is easy;  Its the rebuild that is hard. 

Absolutely, but in terms of difficulty of task Idzik was in an impossible spot, especially compared to Douglas. Douglas at least had a clean slate and had wisely negotiated himself a ton of rope. Idzik was compromised from day one simply by virtue of no one else wanting the job. 

[Lith]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Absolutely, but in terms of difficulty of task Idzik was in an impossible spot, especially compared to Douglas. Douglas at least had a clean slate and had wisely negotiated himself a ton of rope. Idzik was compromised from day one simply by virtue of no one else wanting the job. 

No argument from me.   Idzik was also saddled with the aftermath of going all in on 2009 & 10.  We gave up picks and were left with a decimated roster with no young talent after we fell short.

Actually, I thought Idzik's plan was good.  He was the last GM we had who actually accumulated comp picks and really committed to rebuilding through the draft.  Too bad he could not evaluate talent.  Minor drawback for a GM.