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Barnwell: Jets have the 22nd ranked skill position group


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Sounds like these jets players will have a lot to prove. I think someone needs to define what skill positions since in my view the jets upgraded everywhere except te and maybe downgraded at rb because hall is coming off an injury.  But let think they’re in the bottom third to motivate themselves.

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

Yeah, not having the article to see who he has above/below and what he's basing the criteria off makes this a little challenging but it seems bogus.   Moving up 2 spots seems harsh too, IMO, Lazard and Hardman are significant upgrades.  How many teams have a true blue stud WR 1 w/ 3 guys who can all give you 60-70, 800 yards and 5 TD's?  Cobb as a #5 and then  2 very solid veteran TE, 2 youngsters w/ upside.  I dont think there are as many teams as the Jets w/ depth on offense. 

The only team that comes to mind off the rip is the Jags - Kirk, Jones, Engram w/Entienne, is that really that much better then the Jets or did they just have awesome coaching and QB play?  They added Ridley so that tips the scale but still  I'd take the 49ers skills players over the Jets but I dont even think they go as deep at WR.  The Vikings have Jefferson and then what?  Jags galore.  They just cut Cook.

Off the rip, the team who I would take over the Jets w/ out much debate;  Eagles, 49ers, Dolphins, Bengals, Seahawks, Jags.

And then these teams are all about equal, you're pulling hairs to tell me there is a difference: Chargers, Saints, Bucs, maybe the Colts, maybe Buffalo? 

I mean, that's top 10 range right there. so very interesting to see the details of this hit piece. 

 

 

 

Pretty accurate. I'd debate the relative rank of the Dolphins and Jets. Hill and Waddle are a monster combo, but Tagovailoa is a concussion mess and Mostert is nothing more than ok. Smythe has done pretty much nothing at TE. Rodgers is vastly better than Tag, Hall better than Mostert, Wilson about same level as Waddle. Hill is definitely better than any receiver on the Jets, TE's are a wash at this point, but I like Ruckert's potential better than Smythe's. It's all just speculating anyway and rankings are a waste of time at this point in the pre-season. But if I had to choose the Dolphins or Jets skill players, I'd go Jets mainly because of Rodgers. He elevates the whole group.

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

Yeah, not having the article to see who he has above/below and what he's basing the criteria off makes this a little challenging but it seems bogus.   Moving up 2 spots seems harsh too, IMO, Lazard and Hardman are significant upgrades.  How many teams have a true blue stud WR 1 w/ 3 guys who can all give you 60-70, 800 yards and 5 TD's?  Cobb as a #5 and then  2 very solid veteran TE, 2 youngsters w/ upside.  I dont think there are as many teams as the Jets w/ depth on offense. 

The only team that comes to mind off the rip is the Jags - Kirk, Jones, Engram w/Entienne, is that really that much better then the Jets or did they just have awesome coaching and QB play?  They added Ridley so that tips the scale but still  I'd take the 49ers skills players over the Jets but I dont even think they go as deep at WR.  The Vikings have Jefferson and then what?  Jags galore.  They just cut Cook.

Off the rip, the team who I would take over the Jets w/ out much debate;  Eagles, 49ers, Dolphins, Bengals, Seahawks, Jags.

And then these teams are all about equal, you're pulling hairs to tell me there is a difference: Chargers, Saints, Bucs, maybe the Colts, maybe Buffalo? 

I mean, that's top 10 range right there. so very interesting to see the details of this hit piece. 

 

 

 

FYI-to show how stupid this article is, the Vikings are ranked 6th.

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14 hours ago, MichaelBolton said:

Sorry Mods, but felt the need to post this. It is an ESPN insider article so I can’t copy and paste. 

Barnwell is just not impressed with the Jets. He had them as the 24th best skill group last year and didn’t think they improved much. 
 

I don’t claim to be as smart as Barnwell. The guy gets paid to write this stuff for a reason. However, I’d argue the Jets skill position talent will take a big jump this year simply from not having the worst QB in the NFL. 
 

Keep in mind Barnwell is usually right about this stuff. He was the first one to give up on Sam Darnold. 

I claim to be as smart as Barnwell.  I am supposed to be impressed that he gets paid to write this stuff?  Connor Hughes can't even afford a $600,000 house and he has been doing it for ages. 

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He dings Garrett for 5 drops, but Cincy's Chase had 7, Higgins and Mixon had 5.

22. New York Jets

2022 rank: 24 | 2021 rank: 30

For the Jets, it's all about the class of 2022. Garrett Wilson won Offensive Rookie of the Year and produced upper-echelon wideout numbers with replacement-level quarterback play. His 1.92 yards per route run were in line with DK Metcalf and DJ Moore a year ago. Drops were a concern -- Wilson put five balls on the ground -- but he's already a No. 1 receiver with the potential to be a superstar.

Things begin to get dicier from there. Breece Hall was averaging nearly 6.0 yards per carry to start his career when he tore an ACL in October. There are questions about whether he will be ready for the start of training camp. While Hall's long-term outlook is still exciting, there are plenty of backs who need a full season to get back to their old selves after an ACL injury. Michael Carter and rookie fifth-round pick Israel Abanikanda would have to pick up the pieces if Hall misses time.

The organization traded wide receiver Elijah Moore, cut Braxton Berrios after the season and cleared a path in the process for two certified friends of Aaron Rodgers. I'm not sure those were positive moves. Wideouts Allen Lazard and Randall Cobb afford Rodgers some level of familiarity within the offense, but they weren't helping the Packers last season. Rodgers posted a 62.2 QBR when Cobb and Lazard were on the sideline, but when one or both of those wideouts were on the field, his QBR dropped by 23 points (39.2). In other words, with those guys off the field, Rodgers was the fifth-best quarterback in football. With one or both involved, he ranked 26th.

I'm not sure there's a ton behind them on the wide receiver depth chart, either. Mecole Hardman has his role as a useful gadget player, but he was never able to turn into much more in Kansas City. Corey Davis has just narrowly topped his 2020 totals (65 receptions for 984 yards and five scores) across two combined seasons with the Jets (66 receptions for 1,028 yards and six scores) and might be a cap casualty before the season once the team restructures Rodgers' deal. Denzel Mims, a second-round pick by general manager Joe Douglas in 2020, is facing a challenge to make the Week 1 roster.

Tyler Conklin played ahead of C.J. Uzomah a year ago, as the former Bengals tight end missed two games and finished with only 232 receiving yards. Whether it's Conklin, Lazard or somebody else, the Jets desperately need a second receiver to step up behind Wilson.

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3 hours ago, JiF said:

Yeah, not having the article to see who he has above/below and what he's basing the criteria off makes this a little challenging but it seems bogus.   Moving up 2 spots seems harsh too, IMO, Lazard and Hardman are significant upgrades.  How many teams have a true blue stud WR 1 w/ 3 guys who can all give you 60-70, 800 yards and 5 TD's?  Cobb as a #5 and then  2 very solid veteran TE, 2 youngsters w/ upside.  I dont think there are as many teams as the Jets w/ depth on offense. 

The only team that comes to mind off the rip is the Jags - Kirk, Jones, Engram w/Entienne, is that really that much better then the Jets or did they just have awesome coaching and QB play?  They added Ridley so that tips the scale but still  I'd take the 49ers skills players over the Jets but I dont even think they go as deep at WR.  The Vikings have Jefferson and then what?  Jags galore.  They just cut Cook.

Off the rip, the team who I would take over the Jets w/ out much debate;  Eagles, 49ers, Dolphins, Bengals, Seahawks, Jags.

And then these teams are all about equal, you're pulling hairs to tell me there is a difference: Chargers, Saints, Bucs, maybe the Colts, maybe Buffalo? 

I mean, that's top 10 range right there. so very interesting to see the details of this hit piece. 

 

 

 

Guys not wrong but at the same time this team played pretty damn good last year with close to the bottom of the pack QB play. Health is always my number one concern with this team last couple years, I’d say he is right, unless this team and especially the Darkling stay healthy. If that happens we will have a nice debate to go have about QB’s making weapons or weapon’s making QB. Until we see these guys playing real games. The injury bug is plenty to put this team in the middle. 

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11 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

I mean hard to disagree with the man.

after GW the wrs are average at best. And Breece is coming off a major injury. This is why many of us wanted to sign DHop and or cook.

Dhop can't stay on the field. You can't help the team while riding the bike.

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13 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

Would probably need to take a closer look at other teams for direct comparison, but the truth is outside of GW it's definitely a very average group of players, so I'd think overall they're middle of the pack.

If you think Breece can return to being Breece of his rookie year roughly in the 4-6 week area then I don't know how anyone can say Wilson is the only legitimate playmaker on the team.  

If the argument is Breece will never be the Breece we saw as a rookie then I can agree to a middle-of-the-pack grade.

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1 hour ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Pretty accurate. I'd debate the relative rank of the Dolphins and Jets. Hill and Waddle are a monster combo, but Tagovailoa is a concussion mess and Mostert is nothing more than ok. Smythe has done pretty much nothing at TE. Rodgers is vastly better than Tag, Hall better than Mostert, Wilson about same level as Waddle. Hill is definitely better than any receiver on the Jets, TE's are a wash at this point, but I like Ruckert's potential better than Smythe's. It's all just speculating anyway and rankings are a waste of time at this point in the pre-season. But if I had to choose the Dolphins or Jets skill players, I'd go Jets mainly because of Rodgers. He elevates the whole group.

See I was assuming they didnt include Qb because then it's just completely nonsensical. 

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32 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Guys not wrong but at the same time this team played pretty damn good last year with close to the bottom of the pack QB play. Health is always my number one concern with this team last couple years, I’d say he is right, unless this team and especially the Darkling stay healthy. If that happens we will have a nice debate to go have about QB’s making weapons or weapon’s making QB. Until we see these guys playing real games. The injury bug is plenty to put this team in the middle. 

Again, not knowing the criteria, I cant say if he's wrong or right but either way, it's totally subjective so I'm not sure there is a wrong or right, just that I disagree.  Just on the surface., if he's including QB and he has the Jets moving up 2 spots from last year, well, then, I dont even really know what to say about how stupid this article is other then to again remind you this same man said the Jets were better off w/ Teddy Bridgewater at QB.

 

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38 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Dhop can't stay on the field. You can't help the team while riding the bike.

Hopkins had a season ending injury in 2022 and missed two games to injury at the end of 2023. Other than that he's been pretty healthy throughout his career. Maybe he even plays those 2 games at the end of last year if they matter. The other 6 games he missed in 2023 were due to suspension (PED coming off injury).

I don't think it's really accurate to suggest he's injury prone. Not a lot of guys have 10 year careers without missing at least some time due to a major injury.

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It’s incomplete. Need to see the lineup week 1.  Hall boosts the grade substantially if he’s the guy he was last season. 
 

Davis is another enigma.  Healthy and motivated he could be a another substantial boost 

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8 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Hopkins had a season ending injury in 2022 and missed two games to injury at the end of 2023. Other than that he's been pretty healthy throughout his career. Maybe he even plays those 2 games at the end of last year if they matter. The other 6 games he missed in 2023 were due to suspension (PED coming off injury).

I don't think it's really accurate to suggest he's injury prone. Not a lot of guys have 10 year careers without missing at least some time due to a major injury.

It's a young man's game and he is long in the tooth, and over the past 2 years he missed 15 games. In his prime, he was one of the top WR in the game. But he isn't right now, and the injuries at his age for his position will start to mount.

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14 minutes ago, Larz said:

It’s incomplete. Need to see the lineup week 1.  Hall boosts the grade substantially if he’s the guy he was last season. 
 

Davis is another enigma.  Healthy and motivated he could be a another substantial boost 

Davis has had a non-garbage QB once in his career — half a season of Tannehill and he put up some decent numbers. I’m hoping we haven’t seen his best yet.

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1 hour ago, Claymation said:

It's a young man's game and he is long in the tooth, and over the past 2 years he missed 15 games. In his prime, he was one of the top WR in the game. But he isn't right now, and the injuries at his age for his position will start to mount.

He was a top 10 wr when he was on the field last year. Watch some of his play. 6 of those games he missed were suspension, not injury. Not sure why you keep implying those are due to injury but it's not an honest argument.

Corey Davis missed more games to injury over the past 2 years and is way less of a wr. Hopkins is a clear and obv8 upgrade.

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1 hour ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Nice try.  Hopkins has only really had one injury plagued season out of 10 years in the NFL and that was 2021.  2022 was short because he was suspended

He played 19 games the past 2 seasons. You can try tell me why that happened but he still missed 15 games in '21 &'22 combined. You can't help the team when you are standing on the sideline.

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Hard to see us being 22nd, purely on the back of acquiring Rodgers.

I won't lie, outside G. Wilson, I don't see these guys are a top end type group, as I've said before.

Lazard, David, Hardaman, Mims, the starting two TE's.....yeah, sorta JAG-y group honestly.  Alot to prove.

Ruckert and the rookie TE?  TBD.

Hall (post-injury TBD).  Carter (JAG in my books, same as Knight).  The new guy at RB is TBD?  Again, alot of not-really-sure here.  

So apart from Rodgers and Wilson, it really isn't (today, stres today) an elite or top unit of skillplayers on paper.

But that's why they play the games, and they'll play them with Rodgers at QB, which should help alot.

So we'll just have to wait and see.

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41 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Hard to see us being 22nd, purely on the back of acquiring Rodgers.

I won't lie, outside G. Wilson, I don't see these guys are a top end type group, as I've said before.

Lazard, David, Hardaman, Mims, the starting two TE's.....yeah, sorta JAG-y group honestly.  Alot to prove.

Ruckert and the rookie TE?  TBD.

Hall (post-injury TBD).  Carter (JAG in my books, same as Knight).  The new guy at RB is TBD?  Again, alot of not-really-sure here.  

So apart from Rodgers and Wilson, it really isn't (today, stres today) an elite or top unit of skillplayers on paper.

But that's why they play the games, and they'll play them with Rodgers at QB, which should help alot.

So we'll just have to wait and see.

This is fair. I think there are a handful of teams that are well-stocked with offensive skill players. There are a handful of teams that are impoverished. And there are about 20 odd teams that could be anywhere from top 10 to bottom 10 because there are too many unknowns -- rookie impact, players returning from injury, players in down years or playing above their past histories, etc.  It's way way too early to know much of anything at this point in pre-season. 

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19 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

So I suppose QB1 doesn't count as a skill position? 

Sure but are we going to pretend he’s not pushing 40? Or we all just going to assume what Brady did is the new norm? My expectations for Rodgers is a high end game manager that should be able to make the throws when we need it. We aren’t getting 5k passer that will carry the offense on his back. He will be a functional piece in the offense, he won’t be the offense.  Point was that we don’t have a mahomes, a CMC, a justin jefferson, or a kelce. Guys like hall and Wilson have that potential to get there, but they aren’t proven yet. 

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Sure but are we going to pretend he’s not pushing 40? Or we all just going to assume what Brady did is the new norm? My expectations for Rodgers is a high end game manager that should be able to make the throws when we need it. We aren’t getting 5k passer that will carry the offense on his back. He will be a functional piece in the offense, he won’t be the offense.  Point was that we don’t have a mahomes, a CMC, a justin jefferson, or a kelce. Guys like hall and Wilson have that potential to get there, but they aren’t proven yet. 


One QB passed for 5000 last year. Way to go out on a limb, Nostradamus.
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9 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Guys not wrong but at the same time this team played pretty damn good last year with close to the bottom of the pack QB play. Health is always my number one concern with this team last couple years, I’d say he is right, unless this team and especially the Darkling stay healthy. If that happens we will have a nice debate to go have about QB’s making weapons or weapon’s making QB. Until we see these guys playing real games. The injury bug is plenty to put this team in the middle. 

Why do you insist on making every thread about Zach?

Angry Ariana Grande GIF by NETFLIX

35 minutes ago, bicketybam said:


 

 


One QB passed for 5000 last year. Way to go out on a limb, Nostradamus.

 

And Rodgers never has. "He's declined!" lol.

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5 hours ago, extmenace said:

Sure but are we going to pretend he’s not pushing 40? Or we all just going to assume what Brady did is the new norm? My expectations for Rodgers is a high end game manager that should be able to make the throws when we need it. We aren’t getting 5k passer that will carry the offense on his back. He will be a functional piece in the offense, he won’t be the offense.  Point was that we don’t have a mahomes, a CMC, a justin jefferson, or a kelce. Guys like hall and Wilson have that potential to get there, but they aren’t proven yet. 

If he is merely a game manager this season then the FO made another major QB mistake.

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