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OT: Detailed ESPN article on the Gruden/Snyder/Goodell fiasco


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16 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

If I was born a creep or became a creep later in life does it matter? Would you still want my creep arse around you? 
 

Yes, it does matter. If there is some common trigger, you’d need to identify what that is to convince me that they are literally all evil.

If you think they are born that way, then I guess your position is that “only born-leaches invent things that ultimately become worth a billion dollars.” Which would make them at least a necessary evil.

16 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Besides stop with the nonsense, if these were good people the world would be a better place period.

Ok… if everyone was a better person the world would be better. Doesn’t mean we are all leaches.

16 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

It amazes me how people will really defend these crooks. The world is a beautiful place but just imagine a world where we didn’t have greedy war mongering cowards, who hoard everything for a small group. Society would be further along but too bad we have many people like you who think these people are helping more than hurting. 

Defend? Again, it’s your strongly held opinion, you should be able to answer questions about it. And it’s a pretty big leap to say all billionaires are war mongers, I reiterate my “lol” response to your initial statement of your opinion.

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14 minutes ago, jgb said:

Yes, it does matter. If there is some common trigger, you’d need to identify what that is to convince me that they are literally all evil.

If you think they are born that way, then I guess your position is that “only born-leaches invent things that ultimately become worth a billion dollars.” Which would make them at least a necessary evil.

Ok… if everyone was a better person the world would be better. Doesn’t mean we are all leaches.

Defend? Again, it’s your strongly held opinion, you should be able to answer questions about it. And it’s a pretty big leap to say all billionaires are war mongers, I reiterate my “lol” response to your initial statement of your opinion.

🤷‍♂️

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On 7/13/2023 at 9:58 AM, sourceworx said:

This league stinks to high heaven.

After reading that - with all of the back-biting between the league, owners, and coaches - is there anyone who can say with a straight face that the NFL isn't fixing games?

Apples and Horses.

There is a big leap between what Snyder caused here and fixing games.

And fixing games would take ALOT more conspirators to accomplish, including players.

Bad as the NFL and Owners are, I don't believe this is any way evidence of game fixing.

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Apples and Horses.

There is a big leap between what Snyder caused here and fixing games.

And fixing games would take ALOT more conspirators to accomplish, including players.

Bad as the NFL and Owners are, I don't believe this is any way evidence of game fixing.

Such a conspiracy would require so many conspirators that it would collapse under its own weight. Whoever blew the whistle with evidence in hand on what would be the biggest sports scandal of all time would become an immediate multi-millionaire with book and movie deals. It would cost much more to buy all that silence than any financial gain to be had by rigging games. In addition, a statistical analysis of Vegas wagering would quickly identify such a scheme. This is one way they catch inside traders, someone somewhere would be looking to profit from foreknowledge of game results.

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On 7/13/2023 at 2:50 AM, HighPitch said:

Does anyone know or have the exact wording gruden used in his emails

I thought he said something to the effect that the new rules trying to reduce hitting and CTE were too soft.  But he did not use that wording.  He used terminology that was a little bit more colorful.

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There’s a reason why nfl games are called exhibitions and it to ensure nothing can happen to the nfl regardless of the outcome.  Kind of implies the games are rigged. Bad, timely ref calls? We’ve seen tons of those.  Manipulating players on and off the field? Anything to make the shield doesn’t get tarnished.  Is Goodall a fraud?  Maybe. He’s certainly well paid for his job but that does team he’s doing a good job.  I think the whole legalized gambling thing is going to bring it all down.

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3 minutes ago, rangerous said:

There’s a reason why nfl games are called exhibitions and it to ensure nothing can happen to the nfl regardless of the outcome.  Kind of implies the games are rigged. Bad, timely ref calls? We’ve seen tons of those.  Manipulating players on and off the field? Anything to make the shield doesn’t get tarnished.  Is Goodall a fraud?  Maybe. He’s certainly well paid for his job but that does team he’s doing a good job.  I think the whole legalized gambling thing is going to bring it all down.


those tweets about it being registered as entertainment in 1920 didn’t provide any actual proof or evidence  

 

Didn’t nflisrigged trend on Twitter last year? 

there were a lot of memes about the script writers, yet  It’s never been more popular. 
 

Hey, if it is rigged, wouldn’t we be a great story this year?
 

 

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1 hour ago, Larz said:


those tweets about it being registered as entertainment in 1920 didn’t provide any actual proof or evidence  

 

Didn’t nflisrigged trend on Twitter last year? 

there were a lot of memes about the script writers, yet  It’s never been more popular. 
 

Hey, if it is rigged, wouldn’t we be a great story this year?
 

 

I didn’t read about the nfl and being an exhibition in a tweet.  It was long before the internet. I believe I used to hear it in the preamble before the games way back when on tv.

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1 minute ago, rangerous said:

I didn’t read about the nfl and being an exhibition in a tweet.  It was long before the internet. I believe I used to hear it in the preamble before the games way back when on tv.

It’s irrelevant tho. If it was ever proven with hard evidence that the NFL officially conspired to fix the outcomes they wouldn’t be worried about house arrest after a trial, they would be worried about people finding something else to support. Is it just human nature to give preference to star QBs or did the NFL say “ make sure that the ______ win”?   A player fixing a game is bad enough, the commissioner deciding who wins would end the NFL. 

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On 7/13/2023 at 12:05 AM, Integrity28 said:

Goodell is corrupt. The NFL is a joke. Snyder and Kraft are typical smarmy rich guys who cheat and lie. Gruden is an idiot and jackass. Bill Belichik is a scumbag.

Big problem for the NFL: Gruden's lawsuit is pretty much going his way. Discovery won't be pleasant, it's in Nevada and there isn't going to be private binding arbitration. This may only be the beginning. Gruden crossed the NFL by opposing elimination of pension plans for staff and assistant coaches; Goodell probably checks for coins under couch cushions when he goes to someone else's house.

If you're an NFL owner, have to be concerned that if Goodell would play favorites among and between teams, what happens if that one fine day Goodell decides you are a bad guy? It isn't very business-like for a multi billion dollar company like the NFL. And why would he be compelled to be so accommodating to a complete scumbag like Dan Snyder. 

Demaurice Smith is a total clown. Had Gruden limited his insults to that, there would be no dispute. He has done nothing about the real issues that impact  rank&file players; earlier vesting of pensions including some or all PS time; long term care, guaranteed contracts. 

 

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38 minutes ago, Larz said:

It’s irrelevant tho. If it was ever proven with hard evidence that the NFL officially conspired to fix the outcomes they wouldn’t be worried about house arrest after a trial, they would be worried about people finding something else to support. Is it just human nature to give preference to star QBs or did the NFL say “ make sure that the ______ win”?   A player fixing a game is bad enough, the commissioner deciding who wins would end the NFL. 

You can’t argue against a conspiracy theorist. All evidence that disproves the theory was “cooked up by the conspirators, that’s what they want you to think, sheeple.” Some people just need something to believe in.

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On 7/14/2023 at 9:59 AM, Warfish said:

Apples and Horses.

There is a big leap between what Snyder caused here and fixing games.

And fixing games would take ALOT more conspirators to accomplish, including players.

Bad as the NFL and Owners are, I don't believe this is any way evidence of game fixing.

Really just a couple of people.

A WR to drop a few extra balls.   A ref to call 1 or 2 questionable PI cases.   A bogus roughing the QB penalty.  A total lack of calling offensive PI.

In a close game, that's all it really takes.

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1 hour ago, jgb said:

You can’t argue against a conspiracy theorist. All evidence that disproves the theory was “cooked up by the conspirators, that’s what they want you to think, sheeple.” Some people just need something to believe in.

And thanks to social media and the "dark web", these people have communities together where their ideas can get more and more absurd because there's no one there to be a voice of reason.

It used to be that these smooth brains were spread around society disconnected from each other and thus could get called morons by their friend groups (if they have friends) so everyone can move on.  Now these conspiracy theorists have power in numbers, which is scary.

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9 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And thanks to social media and the "dark web", these people have communities together where their ideas can get more and more absurd because there's no one there to be a voice of reason.

It used to be that these smooth brains were spread around society disconnected from each other and thus could get called morons by their friend groups (if they have friends) so everyone can move on.  Now these conspiracy theorists have power in numbers, which is scary.

Social control no longer keeps the village idiot in check when every village's idiot can find each other and create "communities" on FB.

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16 minutes ago, jgb said:

Social control no longer keep the village idiot in check when every village's idiot can find each other and create "communities" on FB.

Communities of village idiots.

God help us.

(Then again doesn't that just describe JN???  😶)

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Say what you want about Goodell and the NFL, but Gruden's emails were horrific. Nobody could be a coach/leader in this day and age after making those awful, bigoted, ignorant, crude comments and slurs about blacks, gays, and women.  Regardless of whether he was targeted or not, he said all of those things.  I don't understand how he wins this case and I'm an attorney. Is he making the always losing argument that " I was wrong for what I did, but everyone else was doing it too and I never expected my bad behavior to become public?"  

Gruden is a POS.  Goodell may be one too, but that doesn't mean Gruden should still be coaching minority and gay players.  He got what he deserved. Others may deserve it too, but he doesn't get his job back.  He was wrong and was forced to resign for the right reasons.  

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2 hours ago, Larz said:

It’s irrelevant tho. If it was ever proven with hard evidence that the NFL officially conspired to fix the outcomes they wouldn’t be worried about house arrest after a trial, they would be worried about people finding something else to support. Is it just human nature to give preference to star QBs or did the NFL say “ make sure that the ______ win”?   A player fixing a game is bad enough, the commissioner deciding who wins would end the NFL. 

The thing is probably we wouldn’t know.  Remember when Jess kersey got popped for gambling and was an nba ref.  Consider how times it seemed like the patsie teams had exactly the right defense called in jet games.  Of course we all know now the patsies were cheating but then consider the punishment.  It’s not like they suspended anyone for a season like they did to hornung and Kara’s for betting on their own teams.  The nfl is all about revenue. They ran the course with a small market team like the patsies now they need to grow back their larger markets.

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1 minute ago, rangerous said:

The thing is probably we wouldn’t know.  Remember when Jess kersey got popped for gambling and was an nba ref.  Consider how times it seemed like the patsie teams had exactly the right defense called in jet games.  Of course we all know now the patsies were cheating but then consider the punishment.  It’s not like they suspended anyone for a season like they did to hornung and Kara’s for betting on their own teams.  The nfl is all about revenue. They ran the course with a small market team like the patsies now they need to grow back their larger markets.

There’s no question teams cheat, Star QBs get the breaks , refs are on the take for shaving the spread ( the NBA it’s soooo bad ) but if it ever came out that the NFL formally informed refs to influence the outcome, not just the spread, that would kill the NFL. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Larz said:

There’s no question teams cheat, Star QBs get the breaks , refs are on the take for shaving the spread ( the NBA it’s soooo bad ) but if it ever came out that the NFL formally informed refs to influence the outcome, not just the spread, that would kill the NFL. 

 

Of course Goodall would offer up some plausible deniability. You know , “ I’m shocked there’s gambling in this establishment.”  And if it came from good elks office the nfl as an entity would be toast. Instead we’d have have watch that paragon of virtue, FIFA or Formula 1 racing.  Funny how the NYTimes doesn’t cover the nfl but goes out of its way to cover soccer.

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2 hours ago, rangerous said:

The thing is probably we wouldn’t know.  Remember when Jess kersey got popped for gambling and was an nba ref.  Consider how times it seemed like the patsie teams had exactly the right defense called in jet games.  Of course we all know now the patsies were cheating but then consider the punishment.  It’s not like they suspended anyone for a season like they did to hornung and Kara’s for betting on their own teams.  The nfl is all about revenue. They ran the course with a small market team like the patsies now they need to grow back their larger markets.

Hard to understand how the gambling $ going to pro sports leagues so far have done nothing to increase player salaries nor lessened the salary cap nonsense. Gambling genie is out of the bottle. Matter of time until the NFL has it's Tim Donaghy moments. 

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On 7/13/2023 at 9:21 AM, oatmeal said:

Okay so a dude named “JetPotato” is the same font who hands out the intelligence cards around here.

Got it 👍

Some dude named “oatmeal” in lower case lettering is questioning someone else’s name for handing out the intelligence cards around here? ?  
 

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16 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Say what you want about Goodell and the NFL, but Gruden's emails were horrific. Nobody could be a coach/leader in this day and age after making those awful, bigoted, ignorant, crude comments and slurs about blacks, gays, and women.  

My two cents here. And it may not even be worth one cent.  I'm a Gen X and have been in a few locker rooms.  I've heard a lot worse than what Gruden said.  I'm guessing Gruden is foolish and childish but probably not a bona fied racist.  Even Keyshawn Johnson who hates Gruden said he never saw or heard anything racist from Gruden.  The "racist" tag was used to smear him, but I don't think he is a hateful person.  Foolish and immature, yes... Probably not a hater.  In today's media environment, using street language is going to get you labeled even if it is undeserved. 

Gruden may or may not be a bad guy and I understand he had to be expunged, but Goodell is *absolutely* a bottom feeder.  

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1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Look at college basketball, Mike Anderson got fired for being terrible at St johns and Bob Huggins got fired for another DWI at West Virginia.  Both suing the universities.  Pathetic.

And in Huggins' case he wasn't even fired....His wife resigned on his behalf, presumably while Bob was passed out drunk, and Huggins tried to give it the old "takesies backsies" and sued when West Virginia declined his request, lmao.  

Can't make this stuff up.  

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1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Look at college basketball, Mike Anderson got fired for being terrible at St johns and Bob Huggins got fired for another DWI at West Virginia.  Both suing the universities.  Pathetic.

It's not that pathetic, it is typical.  It's millions and millions of dollars and it is standard labor law practice.  You can't just fire people.  Believe me.  Depending on the clauses in their contracts there might not have been good cause to fire them.  DUI is off-duty misconduct.  There are plenty of places where that is FAR from an offense warranting removal.  If you made a mistake, even a terrible one that you have made many times before, but could still expect to see a multi-million dollar pay-out would you just walk away because people might see it as pathetic? 

Performance can be even worse.  They signed contracts.  Both they and the university have to abide by the contract.  I am pretty sure that the St. John's deal did not have a stipulation that the ******* guy had to make the final four or something.  They have all that nonsense about "cognitive issues."  I don't see how you can even pretend that the University is taking the high road by taking the guy's $11M and handing it to Pitino.

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On 7/13/2023 at 10:45 AM, oatmeal said:

If I was born a creep or became a creep later in life does it matter? Would you still want my creep arse around you? 
 

Besides stop with the nonsense, if these were good people the world would be a better place period.

It amazes me how people will really defend these crooks. The world is a beautiful place but just imagine a world where we didn’t have greedy war mongering cowards, who hoard everything for a small group. Society would be further along but too bad we have many people like you who think these people are helping more than hurting. 

A few billionaires aren't going to magically change the illogical behavior of billions of people who are often hopelessly dependent on a system due to their own choices. If the people spewing empty idealism and platitudes were in charge we'd all starve to death in our mud huts because those people don't have any answers other than saying how things should be in their magical utopia. Though I'm sure those same people would start complaining about the inequality of mud hut construction and gruel distribution. We saw an example of that in Seattle a few years ago where they got about a week in before people started getting murdered, and they start begging the outside world for food and supplies. Those people you see on TV complaining about the rich are often useless and have little to nothing to offer society other than empty hand, and an offensive remark out of jealousy about those who have accomplished/achieved far more than them.

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