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..Jets ## Giants TRADE --- the winner is ?


jtomm

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The Giants were mocked for acquiring Leonard Williams in a 2019 midseason trade with the Jets.

Williams was considered a good, solid, dependable player, but not dominant, not a player who lived up to being drafted sixth overall in 2015. He played four-plus seasons with the Jets and amassed a modest 17.5 sacks, 96 quarterback hits and 34 tackles for losses.Williams also came to the Giants with an expiring contract. And make no mistake, the 2019 Giants, 2-6 at the time of the trade, were hardly making a run at the Super Bowl that year, finishing 4-12. So, Williams was hardly an acquisition to put them over the top.

As a result, then-embattled Giants general manager Dave Gettleman was ridiculed for giving up third-round pick and conditional fourth-rounder for a player who was likely to walk after the 2020 season.A funny thing happened after all of that criticism the Giants endured for the move: Three years later, the evidence shows the Giants have won the trade … in a landslide.

The 29-year-old Williams, after a quiet first seven games with the Giants in ’19 after the trade (only a half-sack), played for the $16.1 million franchise tag in 2020 and produced a career-high 11.5 sacks, good enough to earn him a three-year, $63 million contract with $45 million guaranteed in 2021.And today, he’s a cornerstone of what has potential to be one of the top defensive lines in the league.The Jets used the 2020 third-round pick they got in the Williams trade to draft safety Ashtyn Davis, who’s never developed into anything more than a special teams player and a rotational backup on defense, and looks like he may be struggling to even make the roster this summer.The conditional pick the Jets got from the trade was used to draft cornerback Michael Carter II with the 154th-overall pick in 2021. Carter has been a backup and solid nickel back.

Williams?

He has potential to be even better than he was in 2020 playing alongside Dexter Lawrence on the inside and with outside pass-rush threats Kayvon Thibodeaux in his second NFL season and Azeez Ojulari healthy after an injury-riddled 2022.“At first, I thought a lot of things were God-given to him,’’ veteran defensive lineman Rakeem Nunez-Roches said before the team’s evening practice on Tuesday. “But being here and seeing how he approaches the game, his work ethic, his attentiveness to detail, nothing was an accident. Everything he has, he worked for.’’

Nunez-Roches is in his ninth NFL season and first with the Giants, having been signed this past offseason after five years with the Buccaneers — which included a 2021 Super Bowl run. He had only seen Williams from afar, and he admired what he saw.Williams certainly does look the part at 6-foot-5, 300 pounds. And surely that, along with how high he was drafted, was used to knock his performance down as not good enough early in his career. But Williams has always been a diligent worker who’s done a good job of not getting caught up in the perception that he wasn’t meeting expectations.

Nunez-Roches has been so impressed with Williams in his short time with the team, he felt compelled to tell him that recently.

“I had to tell him the other day, I was like, ‘Bro, I respect everything that you do,’ ’’ Nunez-Roches said. “I love his approach to pass rush, his wisdom. I was just like, ‘Man, seeing you do what you do, it puts in perspective why my bank account looks like it looks and yours look like it looks.’ ”Nunez-Roches was signed in March to a three-year deal worth $12 million, with $7.5 guaranteed — which is $37.5 million less in guaranteed money than Williams got. And he has no gripes about it.

“Even though he is as big as he is and as gifted as he is, in his head, he’s just like anybody else,’’ Nunez-Roches said. “He’s willing to learn. He’s willing to take criticism from anybody — literally anybody. ‘What can I do better? What am I doing wrong?’ To have those things and already be so ahead of a lot of people, it just boosts his game.’’Williams on Tuesday sounded like a player who has a score to settle with 2022, when he missed five games, first with a knee injury and later with a neck strain. His 114 consecutive-game streak was snapped in Week 3 with the knee injury.“I missed a few games last year for the first time in my career,’’ Williams said. “That’s something that I pride myself on most of my career, being healthy and being durable and being ready to go when called upon. So, this offseason I definitely focused a lot on my body.

“Knowing that I am getting a little bit older and knowing that I have to apply myself more in the training room and keep up with things on my body is going to be important going forward for me.’’

 >>   https://nypost.com/2023/08/01/leonard-williams-makes-giants-big-winner-in-trade-with-jets/

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He's a good player that regressed back to his mean after he got his contract. He's not worth what they paid him. That said, it's not the worst money ever spent either. I wouldn't want that 20M cap charge he's carrying this year on the jets. 

The most ridiculous part of that article is the dismissal of MC2 who would probably be the giants best CB if he were on that team. 

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2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Preposterously stupid overanalysis of the situation. Typical from a hack like Mark "Herm Edwards is a top 5 head coach" Cannizzaro. The guy literally wrote a hit-piece on rookie D'Brickashaw Ferguson because he avoided this fat bastard on the way to practice. So, consider both the stupidity and spitefulness of the author here.

  • The Jets' 2019 season was effectively over already in terms of playoff hopes. They were 1-6 (days away from 1-7) when the trade was made.
  • They weren't interested in extending or tagging Williams after the season, who was coasting through a career-worst season and was further due to become a UFA after the season.
  • The Jets very likely weren't going to get a compensatory pick for Williams anyway, given the qualifying UFAs the team was likely to sign (and ultimately did) including McGovern, Fant, and more. Imagine having a late 3rd round comp pick negated by signing Alex Lewis. The trade locked in a high 3rd in 2020, plus a conditional pick in 2021, instead of a likely negated late 3rd round pick in 2021.

The choice, despite the overly twisted & rationalized argument of an imbecile, is effectively oversimplified above as a decision of whether to trade him away or not. The decision in reality was: get a couple draft picks and some cap relief instead vs. not getting a couple draft picks and some cap relief.

Cannizzaro is a spiteful lowlife with no brains, and approaching 20 years later is still bitter that Mangini's Jets shut him out after trading his BFF Herm Edwards to KC after said coach was willfully tampering with another team while under contract here. Real charming fellas, the two of them. 

don't hold your feelings in - let them go.

I guess lunch with Cannizzaro and yourself is out? 

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11 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Just to be clear, the last 2 years, Leonard Williams has made 42 million dollars, and collected 6.5 and 2.5 sacks.   He has not been selected to a Pro Bowl, has had a total of 2 passes defensed, with 3 forced fumbles and 3 fumble recoveries.

If he was a Free Agent signed and making that much money, I'd call him a bust.

Now, the players the Jets got with those picks have also amounted to little/nothing.  So, I wouldn't really say anyone "won" that trade.  The Jets dropped salary, Giants got a decent defensive player at a premium salary, and that's about it.

Great first paragraph. Saying Carter amounts to nothing is a little puzzling 

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22 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Just to be clear, the last 2 years, Leonard Williams has made 42 million dollars, and collected 6.5 and 2.5 sacks.   He has not been selected to a Pro Bowl, has had a total of 2 passes defensed, with 3 forced fumbles and 3 fumble recoveries.

If he was a Free Agent signed and making that much money, I'd call him a bust.

Now, the players the Jets got with those picks have also amounted to little/nothing.  So, I wouldn't really say anyone "won" that trade.  The Jets dropped salary, Giants got a decent defensive player at a premium salary, and that's about it.

?

Michael Carter II is maybe the best nickel back in the league. I'd say that's better than little/nothing.

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39 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Preposterously stupid overanalysis of the situation. Typical from a hack like Mark "Herm Edwards is a top 5 head coach" Cannizzaro. The guy literally wrote a hit-piece on rookie D'Brickashaw Ferguson because he avoided this fat bastard on the way to practice. So, consider both the stupidity and spitefulness of the author here.

  • The Jets' 2019 season was effectively over already in terms of playoff hopes. They were 1-6 (days away from 1-7) when the trade was made.
  • They weren't interested in extending or tagging Williams after the season, who was coasting through a career-worst season and was further due to become a UFA after the season.
  • The Jets very likely weren't going to get a compensatory pick for Williams anyway, given the qualifying UFAs the team was likely to sign (and ultimately did) including McGovern, Fant, and more. Imagine having a late 3rd round comp pick negated by signing Alex Lewis. The trade locked in a high 3rd in 2020, plus a conditional pick in 2021, instead of a likely negated late 3rd round pick in 2021.

The choice, despite the overly twisted & rationalized argument of an imbecile, is effectively oversimplified above as a decision of whether to trade him away or not. The decision in reality was: get a couple draft picks and some cap relief instead vs. not getting a couple draft picks and some cap relief.

Cannizzaro is a spiteful lowlife with no brains, and approaching 20 years later is still bitter that Mangini's Jets shut him out after trading his BFF Herm Edwards to KC after said coach was willfully tampering with another team while under contract here. Real charming fellas, the two of them. 

Will Ferrell Anchorman GIF

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44 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

Great first paragraph. Saying Carter amounts to nothing is a little puzzling 

That's me.   Almost a good complete thought.

Another way of looking at the last 3 years.   Would you trade Carter (and his salary) for Williams (and his salary)

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35 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

?

Michael Carter II is maybe the best nickel back in the league. I'd say that's better than little/nothing.

ehhhh.

Do NFL defenses even use Nickel Backs very often?   Like, I bet he's on the field less than 80% of the time.

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12 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

Were we also better off with Zach Wilson instead of Mahomes the last 3 years?

Yeah, that is an apples to apples comparison.

An overpaid defensive lineman getting 9 sacks over 2 years is the exact same as the best QB in the game.

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30 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

He was on the field for 732 snaps last year (64%). Leonard Williams was on the field for 723 snaps last year. Quinnen Williams was on the field for 690 snaps.

I was actually trying to make fun of myself for underestimating how productive he is.

I am aware nickel backs are on the field about 60-70% of plays with the current offenses running the formations they run.

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52 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I don't know if we'll ever recover from this. Set our d-line back years.

Yeah, it’s not like we subsequently invested a ton of picks and $$$ to replace him or anything… 🙄

Here’s the only defense for the trade…At the time, we were so bad we were tearing our roster apart, and it made no sense to sign our best young player to a fair market second contract.

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3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Preposterously stupid overanalysis of the situation. Typical from a hack like Mark "Herm Edwards is a top 5 head coach" Cannizzaro. The guy literally wrote a hit-piece on rookie D'Brickashaw Ferguson because he avoided this fat bastard on the way to practice. So, consider both the stupidity and spitefulness of the author here.

  • The Jets' 2019 season was effectively over already in terms of playoff hopes. They were 1-6 (days away from 1-7) when the trade was made.
  • They weren't interested in extending or tagging Williams after the season, who was coasting through a career-worst season and was further due to become a UFA after the season.
  • The Jets very likely weren't going to get a compensatory pick for Williams anyway, given the qualifying UFAs the team was likely to sign (and ultimately did) including McGovern, Fant, and more. Imagine having a late 3rd round comp pick negated by signing Alex Lewis. The trade locked in a high 3rd in 2020, plus a conditional pick in 2021, instead of a likely negated late 3rd round pick in 2021.

The choice, despite the overly twisted & rationalized argument of an imbecile, is effectively oversimplified above as a decision of whether to trade him away or not. The decision in reality was: get a couple draft picks and some cap relief instead vs. not getting a couple draft picks and some cap relief.

Cannizzaro is a spiteful lowlife with no brains, and approaching 20 years later is still bitter that Mangini's Jets shut him out after trading his BFF Herm Edwards to KC after said coach was willfully tampering with another team while under contract here. Real charming fellas, the two of them. 

He had 1 pro bowl year with 11 sacks . When you look at sacks over a career and average it out he's a 4 - 5 sack player and I would say a good DT/DE but that's as far as it goes.  He played 8 years and had the one double digit sack season and never came close to that otherwise. 

At this stage why even write this article ? We have a damn good DL with a solid rotation across the board. I could see this article being relevant if we just sucked on the DL but we don't and we currently have much better players than Williams. Cannizzaro made a dumb choice writing this article because at this stage no one gives a ****

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