Jump to content

Stock Rising / Stock Falling vs Panthers (In My Humble Opinion)


Recommended Posts

8 minutes ago, pointman said:

Zach got his dicked kicked in for two years straight. He even said how rough and demoralizing it was, during his Hard Knocks interview. He now has his childhood hero teaching and molding him. Even his bitter mom was thankful. Sure, maybe the young player who was a stud in college one day starts thinking he is Jesus in cleats again and wants out. But there is also the chance that Aaron stays in his ear and lets him know the realistic timeframe of which he plans to stick around and how he wants to help Zach become great. And maybe, Zach decides for the long run in an age where quarterbacks play until they're 40, he wants to stick around and learn as much as he can before he comes the next Jet legend QB behind Namath, Vinny, Favre, Rodgers. Aaron did it with Favre, maybe Zach will with Aaron. 

 

Believe Jason Sudeikis GIF by Apple TV

If he was a rookie that'd be a very different story, but taking that kind of deal as the basis for a second contract after his first 2 years is probably not in anyone's best interest unless the league-wide interest is low and he's willing to commit to very few promises (or monetary guarantees).  Even despite sitting for 3 years, Rodgers already had a successful season on his rookie contract before getting a new deal, which still wasn't particularly big money for a QB even at that time.

Is there honestly a single example in league history that comes anywhere close to these kind of circumstances working out?  Closest I could think might be Alex Smith, but his many chances with SF was in no small part due to the complete lack of any competition at the position, and had to take a considerable pay cut to even make it through his rookie deal.

The point being even if we disregard any debate over the likelihood of Wilson revitalizing his career at all, it happening with the Jets is perhaps the least likely.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Perhaps not impossible, but let's at least say extremely unlikely and not something anyone is reasonably planning around today.  In truth, if things go well for Wilson he would have every reason to want to move on, and if they don't the Jets would be the ones who would want out.

Only way a deal like that would happen is if Wilson is considered a question mark when the time comes, and he (and his agent) don't feel particularly confident in betting on himself.  The truth is Wilson will probably be rooting for a Rodgers injury a little bit on the inside, and I don't even mean that as a criticism towards him, because it's honestly the only way he'll get to show himself in games that count, but that's obviously not something the team nor us would want to see.

No, we can't plan on that happening.  I disagree what Zach would have every reason to want to move on.  Let's say that due to his friendship with Rodgers he knows that Rodgers is going to retire after the 2024 season, or there is a very strong likelihood of that happening. Zach could sign a contract beginning in 2025 that is loaded with easily achievable incentives and escalators.  He already knows the scheme, would have chemistry and timing with his receivers, the Jets have a great young team on the rise, and he wouldn't have to start over somewhere with all of that and/or learn yet another offense.  Talk about a rags to riches movie, if Zach was able to recover from his abysmal play and the abysmal way in which he was handled his first two seasons here, and become a very good, if not great QB, and still led the team to the promised land in NY/NJ he would be one of the great comeback stories of all time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:
If he was a rookie that'd be a very different story, but taking that kind of deal as the basis for a second contract after his first 2 years is probably not in anyone's best interest unless the league-wide interest is low and he's willing to commit to very few promises (or monetary guarantees).  Even despite sitting for 3 years, Rodgers already had a successful season on his rookie contract before getting a new deal, which still wasn't particularly big money for a QB even at that time.
Is there honestly a single example in league history that comes anywhere close to these kind of circumstances working out?  Closest I could think might be Alex Smith, but his many chances with SF was in no small part due to the complete lack of any competition at the position, and had to take a considerable pay cut to even make it through his rookie deal.
The point being even if we disregard any debate over the likelihood of Wilson revitalizing his career at all, it happening with the Jets is perhaps the least likely.

When was the last time a HOF QB took an interest in tutoring a rising young gun ?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Edited by Dunnie
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No other team knows Zac as well as the Jets.   If Zac stays past his first contract it will be with the understanding that he will be Rodgers replacement.  No other team would guarantee that- at best he d get the same opportunity that Darnold , Sanchez and Geno Smith got.  A chance to win the job.

  • Upvote 3
  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

When was the last time a HOF QB took an interest in torturing a rising young gun ?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

I know the bold was simply a typo, but it drew a legit laugh from me.  Do we think Rodgers has a devious ulterior motive to being here?

But to your question, my point is simply forgetting even any question of whether Wilson does improve, there's a lot of general practicality issues for both Wilson and the Jets at play here.

  • Upvote 1
  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Jethead said:

Great thread. 

JJ is going to be the breakout star this year. I predict he's DL1 by the season. opener. Pro Bowl coming!

Hope you're right, he looked dominant last night. Besides getting QB pressure one play stood out on his setting the edge strength when he tossed his man aside and made the tackle. Was awesome! 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

If he was a rookie that'd be a very different story, but taking that kind of deal as the basis for a second contract after his first 2 years is probably not in anyone's best interest unless the league-wide interest is low and he's willing to commit to very few promises (or monetary guarantees).  Even despite sitting for 3 years, Rodgers already had a successful season on his rookie contract before getting a new deal, which still wasn't particularly big money for a QB even at that time.

Is there honestly a single example in league history that comes anywhere close to these kind of circumstances working out?  Closest I could think might be Alex Smith, but his many chances with SF was in no small part due to the complete lack of any competition at the position, and had to take a considerable pay cut to even make it through his rookie deal.

The point being even if we disregard any debate over the likelihood of Wilson revitalizing his career at all, it happening with the Jets is perhaps the least likely.

There doesn't have to be a single instance of that happening before.  Times are different now.  Attitudes are different.  There is always a first time for anything that happens.  While it's not likely, it's still possible.

Why would it not be in anyone's best interests?  If Zach continues to develop/improve, the Jets would get to keep a very good backup QB for Rodgers who already knows the system, and would have Rodgers' successor in place.  Conversely, if Zach were to move on, they would have a very difficult time in finding a successor for a playoff-worth team.  Great QBs don't make it to FA or get traded very often.  If the Jets have a great season they'll be drafting towards the bottom of the draft so would have little or no chance of drafting a new potential FQB unless they traded a boatload of picks (which would keep them from continuing to improve) or got very lucky drafting another Tom Brady in the 2nd round or lower. It would reward the Jets' interests in drafting Zach in the first place when a lot of Jets fans were against it.  I'm sure that JD feels like he owes it to Zach for almost screwing up his career with his abysmal handling of the drafting of Zach (hiring a rookie coach who had been a defensive HC and allowing him to hire a rookie OC with no experience in working with and developing QBs, having him play in an offense that was not suitable for his talents and for which he had to change his footwork and his mental approach to playing QB 180 degrees, all while starting day one with no talent around him and a lousy OL, and no quality veteran QB to learn from or where Zach could sit and watch.)  The whole thing was a cluster****.  It's truly amazing that Zach wasn't totally ruined by the Jets' mishandling of him and the situation.  It's a tribute to Zach and his resilience, humility and attitude that he is learning, growing, and has such a positive attitude.

It would be in Zach's interest because he wouldn't have to start over somewhere else and learn another new offense.  He knows the scheme here, has chemistry with receivers here, and the Jets have a great young team.  He'd have a chance to go to the playoffs immediately. He'd be able to point out what he had overcome and if he became a star QB in NYC he could write his own ticket.  It would be one of the greatest sports stories of all time if he then succeeded and won a SB or two with the Jets.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

I know the bold was simply a typo, but it drew a legit laugh from me.  Do we think Rodgers has a devious ulterior motive to being here?

But to your question, my point is simply forgetting even any question of whether Wilson does improve, there's a lot of general practicality issues for both Wilson and the Jets at play here.

If Zach develops and turns into the player they thought they were drafting, the practicality issues will be irrelevant.  The Jets will make it happen.

  • Sympathy 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know the bold was simply a typo, but it drew a legit laugh from me.  Do we think Rodgers has a devious ulterior motive to being here?
But to your question, my point is simply forgetting even any question of whether Wilson does improve, there's a lot of general practicality issues for both Wilson and the Jets at play here.
I did too .. and then I fixed it

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Dunnie said:

I see.your point. .. fact is .. Wilson's arm doesn't belong to everyone ... So seeing him try to learn and master the short game is  awesome because we know he has the tools to make the seemingly more difficult throws.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

You and I have very different definitions of awesome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JKlecko said:

I disagree.  Having an inferior talent at LT who hasn't practiced and gotten his timing and cohesion down with his OL teammates will screw things up more than a player who has to take a blow occasionally.  Sa;eh likes who he likes, and I know he likes Brown because he played through injury last season, but unless Brown is able to start practicing this week or next, the starting LT job should belong to Becton.  Becton is playing longer and longer and building confidence in his knee.  Saleh also said that the best 5 will start.  There's no way that Becton can't be included in our best 5 OL.

What’s left out here is that Becton isn’t even beating out the wretched Billy Turner for playing time right now, so clearly the coaches don’t see Becton as part of the “Best Five” group. Is Becton individually more talented than Brown at this point? Probably, but that’s apparently not part of the criteria Saleh and co are using to determine who plays. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

What’s left out here is that Becton isn’t even beating out the wretched Billy Turner for playing time right now, so clearly the coaches don’t see Becton as part of the “Best Five” group. Is Becton individually more talented than Brown at this point? Probably, but that’s apparently not part of the criteria Saleh and co are using to determine who plays. 

Becton's not beating out Turner for playing time because Becton has been on a pitch count until yesterday's game.  It has nothing to do with talent or how the CS rates them but rather that they were being careful with Becton and letting him round into shape and build confidence in his knee slowly.  The pitch count is off now, and we should see Becton practicing more and more and moving up with the 1st string soon.  If not, then we'll know there's a problem with how the CS views Becton.  Without a doubt Becton and AVT are the two most talented OL on our roster. Tippman's the only one who could come close

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Larz said:

Kinda related. 
 

👀

Some notable #Panthers OL PFF pass-block grades in the #Jets game:

• Michael Jordan: 10.8
• Ikem Ekwonu: 15.6
• Cameron Erving: 33.7
• Larnel Coleman: 41.5

Not made up. Those are the real grades.

I LOVE it!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, JKlecko said:

Becton's not beating out Turner for playing time because Becton has been on a pitch count until yesterday's game.  It has nothing to do with talent or how the CS rates them but rather that they were being careful with Becton and letting him round into shape and build confidence in his knee slowly.  The pitch count is off now, and we should see Becton practicing more and more and moving up with the 1st string soon.  If not, then we'll know there's a problem with how the CS views Becton.  Without a doubt Becton and AVT are the two most talented OL on our roster. Tippman's the only one who could come close

Yeah, we’ll see this week. I’m surprised we haven’t heard anything yet about how Becton’s leg feels today. That said, the beat guys are pretty unified in their belief that Becton is headed for the door, so it might not even matter. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I looked over the stats and Bawden had 0 carries. And one bad penalty that I can remember. The question with him is of course his health but are the Jets going to carry a fullback on their roster and use one in their offense. More teams are using them. Or like Sarge says much competition from tight ends to make the team which means go with one of them occasionally in the backfield? 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Larz said:

Kinda related. 
 

👀

Some notable #Panthers OL PFF pass-block grades in the #Jets game:

• Michael Jordan: 10.8
• Ikem Ekwonu: 15.6
• Cameron Erving: 33.7
• Larnel Coleman: 41.5

Not made up. Those are the real grades.

Other side of that is the grades for our DL:

 

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Terrible take from our resident satirist, @T0mShane. The season is a marathon and Ruckert has begun to stack weeks in TC. he’s the future. 
 

also, you guys. The collective JN… Zach Wilson looked stale and played uninspired football. Have no clue what you guys are seeing to warrant the “Zach was winner” custard I saw served this morning. Gross

  • Post of the Week 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Terrible take from our resident satirist, @T0mShane. The season is a marathon and Rucker has begun to stack weeks in TC. he’s the future. 
 

also, you guys. The collective JN… Zach Wilson looked as stale and played uninspired football. Have no clue what you guys are seeing to warrant the “Zach was winner” custard I saw served this morning. Gross

I want to believe in Ruckert because I believe in you, Paradis, but Ruckert looks like Matt Mulligan out there

  • WTF? 1
  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, JKlecko said:

It's not impossible that Zach stays.  It may not be very likely, but then it's usually not very likely that a QB has the resilience to bounce back from the hole that Zach was in, but it's looking like he is well on his way out of the hole, and is learning, progressing and beginning to look like the player they drafted.  He may not want to stay, as he might get more money offered up front elsewhere, but if he demonstrates that he has learned and is looking/playing/practicing a lot better by the end of this season, the Jets could offer him a deal loaded with incentives for playing time, and easily reachable goals once Rodgers retires.  I think Zach could see some game action later in the season in games in which the Jets have a big lead.  I don't see Rodgers playing more than 2 years.  If they win the SB following this season, he could decide to ride off into the sunset on top.

If someone pays him more he’s gone, but I think Zach wants to be a Jet and to make it work.  

The Jets hold all the cards if Zach shows he’s worth keeping.  

  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, T0mShane said:

To add to/steal from Sarge’s list:

Winners—

1. The Saleh Vision for this defense: When he first got here, he looked like a dipsh*t for trying to run that Niners defense without Nick Bosa, Fred Warner, or a decent safety, but you can see it coming together now that they’ve thrown a ton of resources at the EDGE spots. If McDonald, Johnson, Huff, and Lawson can produce pressures at a high level, that’s probably worth four(?) wins all by itself inside our division, where nobody has any viable OTs. I didn’t even notice who was starting at the corner spots because the pass rush made them immaterial. Now imagine pairing that DL (with Quinnen Williams) with Sauce and Reed? It took balls to make that WMD pick and he’s been really promising since day one. 
 

2. Zach: Look, Zach stinks, but you can see that Rodgers and this regime has him playing with some discipline in the pocket, and Rodgers has taught him that weird little bolero release that’ll speed up Zach’s process a little bit. The goal has to be to get Zach to that Alex Smith level of play where he’s producing a zero EPA and simply not killing drives all by himself. He’s playing freely because he has no pressure on him, so he’s not doing that stupid Mahomes impression that results in 18 yard losses on scrambles. Will this change if he’s tasked with carrying the team for a month? Probably. But, until then, good for him for not cocking it up out there. 
 

3. Michael Carter: He looked shot all last year, but showed some juice tonight. He’s the guy whose job is most in jeopardy if they sign Cook, so maybe he’s got a little fire under his ass. 
 

4. The backup ILB group: Douglas has prioritized speed with these picks and signings, and dudes like Barnes, Vigil, and Surrat have flashed. It’s going to be an important group because 1. Mosley is slow as sh*t and 2. None of the projected top-5 receivers or CBs play special teams, so Douglas needs to populate other position groups with fast, hostile, expendable guys, and doing that at ILB is bonus territory. 
 

LOSERS:

1. Jeremy Ruckert: We all love the idea of Ruckert, but he hasn’t shown enough in camp to supplant Uzomah or Conklin, and now he has an AC joint issue, which could keep him out for awhile (or longer if Douglas wants to free up a roster spot for a while). 
 

2. The receiver group: It’s preseason, there’s been protection issues, and they’re playing with Zach Wilson and Tim Boyle, but the receivers haven’t been given much chance to shine as yet. Even in camp, it sounds like Rodgers is playing with a select group (Lazard, Davis, Wilson, Cobb/Hardman) and everyone else is left to fend for scraps. As excited as we were about Brownlee, he’s a likely practice squad refugee already after his drops against the Browns. I guess Malik takes the WR6 job because he plays specials and Rodgers likes him. I would have like to have seen Erickson be given more of a chance because he’s a plus special teamer with return ability, but he looks frozen out. In a perfect world, Douglas is able to finesse another veteran receiver onto the roster who’s good in contested catch situations, because neither Lazard or Davis can be counted on in those scenarios, and Rodgers isn’t averse to putting his receivers into contested catch situations. 
 

3. Becton: Whatever’s going on with Becton has to be sorted out quickly because it’s going to come to a point where either Saleh pushes Becton to play with a knee he’s not 100% comfortable with or Becton gets fed up with running with the threes while Billy Turner is eating up his snaps. Either he can be the LT1 or they have to have a deep conversation about his future prospects with the ballclub. 

Put me down for Uzomah being a surprise cut. He is a minus run blocker and average at best receiver. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

What’s left out here is that Becton isn’t even beating out the wretched Billy Turner for playing time right now, so clearly the coaches don’t see Becton as part of the “Best Five” group. Is Becton individually more talented than Brown at this point? Probably, but that’s apparently not part of the criteria Saleh and co are using to determine who plays. 

The reports out of the joint practice and other practices don’t sound good for Billy Turner.

Im a little disappointed Max Mitchell sounds more like a swing tackle level player this season.  I was hoping he’d take a jump to being a solid starter level.  And he may.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Paradis said:

My takeaways - defense is gonna be sick. The pass rush anticipation is nearly eclipsing the Arod hype. 
 

Biggest concern is depth on offense. At every position. 

Nah, I think we have good TE and RB depth.  OL and WR are wanting a bit but are probably serviceable.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

What’s left out here is that Becton isn’t even beating out the wretched Billy Turner for playing time right now, so clearly the coaches don’t see Becton as part of the “Best Five” group. Is Becton individually more talented than Brown at this point? Probably, but that’s apparently not part of the criteria Saleh and co are using to determine who plays. 

Meh. Saleh said he doesn’t care about the tape, only the knee , after the game. It’s frustrating but the knee just isn’t ready yet. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Larz said:

Meh. Saleh said he doesn’t care about the tape, only the knee , after the game. It’s frustrating but the knee just isn’t ready yet. 

I’m going to venture a guess that Becton is either practicing with the ones tomorrow or he’s out the door before the end of the month. Joint practices with the Bucs this week, too. Mike Evans trade, baby. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Paradis said:

Terrible take from our resident satirist, @T0mShane. The season is a marathon and Ruckert has begun to stack weeks in TC. he’s the future. 
 

also, you guys. The collective JN… Zach Wilson looked stale and played uninspired football. Have no clue what you guys are seeing to warrant the “Zach was winner” custard I saw served this morning. Gross

QB rating was 109.   What were you watching?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

#19 is Irvin Charles.  He is not a rookie.  He is 26 years old and has been with the team since May of 2022. 

OK, thanks.  I think I wrote 19 when it should have been 16.  Kind of an upside-down, Johnny Walker induced dyslexia maybe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Both veteran tight ends caught passes.  What else should they have done?  Hahaha

Beyond that, Conklin was WIDE open over the middle when Wilson decided to instead lock in on Hardman on that failed endzone attempt. If he was open way off to the right I’d shrug it off more with him facing the opposite side of the field. Thing is, Hardman barely had a step on the coverage and with the space remaining (to the back of the endzone) and Hardman not exactly having Lazard’s reach, that wasn’t going to be a touchdown absent some bad defense at the last second. He could’ve led Hardman maybe a hair more, but the running room just wasn’t there for much margin of error, and in retrospect the attempt wasn’t at all necessary.

Though he probably gets met by the safety after the catch, Conklin was deep enough himself he still stood at least a puncher’s chance of taking it into the endzone himself. Yes it would’ve come back anyway with McGovern’s penalty, but the point of these preseason snaps is to see growth of younger guys (like Wilson) and I’m sorry but that’s another lower percentage home-run attempt instead of taking an easy 10+ yards. Really the best case would’ve been pump-faking to Hardman to induce the safety leaning that way and then throwing to Conklin, but accept it’s a lot easier/slower for me on replay than it is for the QB to make such a plan in 0.2 seconds, and he was probably too deep for a Rodgers-wannabe no look.

It’s only 1 play but that one stuck out for me, because it’s about diagnosing (or failing to diagnose) what was unfolding, and it’s not like Conklin is considered the 4th option on every given play as a decoy clearing space for someone else. Far from it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...