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WFAN been killing Saleh


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16 hours ago, Barton said:

Jets have consistently been out maneuvered in the 1st quarter of games under Saleh. He better hope Hackett fixes the offense. It might work. 

List the times, should be easy to come up with actual examples give the word “consistently”

 

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1 hour ago, mrcoops said:

  


Yeah, I know they were different.  But they were both really strong personalities who brought instant credibility to the football team.  Parcells took the Kotite team and had me believing they were winning the Superbowl the next season. Rex did similar with a team that was worn down by Mangini's style and turned them into legit SB contenders in his first year, and with an overmatched rookie QB into the bargain.

Neither lasted long as Jets' coaches, but they both raised the bar for the team and made the Jets instantly credible again.

Saleh's Jets are getting there, but that's more about the strength of the roster than Saleh's great coaching, I feel.  Parcells could sign a veteran cast-off and have him playing at a high level as a starter the following week.  Rex could have rolled out me opposite Revis at CB and still schemed up a top-flight D.  Saleh's scheme seems to need 10 top-end Dlinemen to work.

As I said, his style is really not to my taste.  Too many pseudo-philosophical speeches that do nothing for me personally.  But, hey, as I also said - if it leads to wins and a Superbowl trophy, I'll happily be converted.

The difference is, the talent Parcells recruited kept the team relevant 10 years after his departure. Rex (IMO) pressured GM's to draft defense and none panned out really and the Jets fell into shambles after his 2nd year.  Rex couldn't shine Parcells shoes.

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13 hours ago, Facts said:

Ok let’s go by record then.

Oh… that sucks too…

Ok let’s go by most recent results.

Oh… he’s on a 6 game losing streak…

Oh, because you can’t figure out why the record sucks ?

Oh, come up with a single example of how he’s outcoached in the 1st Q?  
 

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3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

And without context, pretty useless. 
Two years of a rebuild that begins with a roster that was torn down and then a  roster torn down through injuries.  
He can coach, the ridiculous how many games has “he” won without the context of no one could or would have won with that lineup is pointless.  

Same excuse we heard for every other crap coach.

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41 minutes ago, Facts said:

Same excuse we heard for every other crap coach.

I’m waiting for you list of 1st Qs where he’s been consistently outcoached

so you’re denying that without a QB and a roster that can win it would be hard for any HC to win?  Is that the laughable premise?  No one would have won with those 2 teams

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7 minutes ago, Facts said:

I don't even understand where you got the premise for this request. It has nothing to do with what I am saying.

 

You, you said Saleh was consistently out coached in the 1st Q.  I asked for examples.  You have nothing, it has everything to do with what you said.  
You then moved the goalposts and started on a different whine
I get it, you have nothing to back your comments up with and are just moaning.  

Facts

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On 8/14/2023 at 12:23 PM, mrcoops said:

I prefer my football coaches more Parcellsian or Rexish, but I'll convert to the cult of Saleh if he delivers us wins.

So a disciplinarian who called out players in the press that would be forced out of the league these days by prima donna athletes, or a clown who needs a stacked roster full of vets because he couldn't actually develop players (some might call it coaching), but was a lighting rod for attention/controversy. Is there a choice C?

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On 8/14/2023 at 12:29 PM, Beerfish said:

I have no doubt he is in command of the defense but my impression is that like Rex he leaves the O mostly alone.   Rodgers and Hackett are running that show.  It will be a grand success or a big fail no in between.

My issue with what has happened with the team is the pandering to rodgers on bringing in certain players.  Now I realize this was probably a must and part of the whole make sure he is happy and going to come here but I'm simply not a big fan of most of the green bay refuges.

No one can convince me that Cobb is a better alternative to a younger more high upside guy or even an older et who is better.

Lazard I'm not a huge fan of, he is not bad but for the price and committeemen to him....

Billy Turner has looked quite bad.

 

Since no one can convince you that Cobb should stay, I guess you don't think that that 3rd down conversions are important.

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10 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

So a disciplinarian who called out players in the press that would be forced out of the league these days by prima donna athletes, or a clown who needs a stacked roster full of vets because he couldn't actually develop players (some might call it coaching), but was a lighting rod for attention/controversy. Is there a choice C?

If you can name some better Jets' coaches from the past four decades, I'm all ears.

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6 minutes ago, JKlecko said:

Since no one can convince you that Cobb should stay, I guess you don't think that that 3rd down conversions are important.

He requested 2 players that he cares about being on the team.  2 who were readily available.  This is pandering.  And a problem.  But he’s always carrying on over two 6th round/UDFA types he wants.  None who ever amount to anything 

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11 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

So a disciplinarian who called out players in the press that would be forced out of the league these days by prima donna athletes, or a clown who needs a stacked roster full of vets because he couldn't actually develop players (some might call it coaching), but was a lighting rod for attention/controversy. Is there a choice C?

Parcells act wouldn’t play in 2023.  It’s not 1986 or 1990 anymore.  He blew the playoffs twice in three seasons here with mental gaffs.  
Rex?  2 winning seasons with loaded rosters in 6 seasons.  Cute act, nothing more

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I wanted Brian Daboll, not Saleh, but I have to give Saleh credit.  The team shows up prepared every week, plays hard, and never quits.  There aren't many HCs in Jets history that we can say that about.  He's a likeable guy, and I like some things he says and does, but not others, and he has made some huge mistakes: (hiring a rookie OC and QB Coach) with a rookie QB, when he himself had zero experience working with or developing QBs and allowing the Mike White T-shirt thing last season for starters.  At least he realized his mistake with MLF and cut his losses.  He seems to let his feelings about players bias him in this lineup decisions.  He likes Mitchell a lot, but imo Mitchell should not be practicing at LT with the 1st string.  He needs to be focusing on getting where he needs to be at RT.  Becton should have been practicing at LT with the 1s and should from here on out.  He seems intent on handing the starting LT job to Brown, regardless of whether he has taken one practice snap with the rest of the 1s.  That, I don't like at all.

In general, I don't trust "players coaches."  Most of the time, their teams lack in discipline, play is sloppy, and they beat themselves with dumb penalties and mental errors.  They often don't hold their players accountable.

So I think how things go this season will determine a lot. If things go south and the team doesn't make the playoffs with Rodgers starting all season, then Saleh has to go imo.  My only caveat with that, is that Rodgers might have an issue with that, and I wouldn't want to hire a new HC that was going to totally change the offensive and defensive schemes.  Then we'd be starting over again next year with learning new schemes and wasting year 2 of Rodgers.

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7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

He requested 2 players that he cares about being on the team.  2 who were readily available.  This is pandering.  And a problem.  But he’s always carrying on over two 6th round/UDFA types he wants.  None who ever amount to anything 

Who is "he"?  If you're talking about Rodgers, I disagree that it's a problem.  Rodgers became unhappy in GB because they didn't support him.  Until this offseason, they almost never signed FAs.  They didn't build a solid D to help Rodgers and never drafted WRs in the 1st round.  Rodgers was a better QB than McCarthy was a HC and a better QB than the Packers GMs were GMs.  Rodgers is only going to be here 2-3 years, and maybe only 1. It would be typical Jets to piss him off and that make things go south here and spoil the one or two seasons he's here.  I've never heard Rodgers carrying on over 6th round or UDFA types.  I have no idea where you get that.

Cobb is a reliable WR that Rodgers trusts.  He has a phenomenal conversion rate on 3rd downs.  He's worth every penny he's being paid and is worthy of the roster spot over some young UDFA WR.

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1 minute ago, JKlecko said:

Who is "he"?  If you're talking about Rodgers, I disagree that it's a problem.  Rodgers became unhappy in GB because they didn't support him.  Until this offseason, they almost never signed FAs.  They didn't build a solid D to help Rodgers and never drafted WRs in the 1st round.  Rodgers was a better QB than McCarthy was a HC and a better QB than the Packers GMs were GMs.  Rodgers is only going to be here 2-3 years, and maybe only 1. It would be typical Jets to piss him off and that make things go south here and spoil the one or two seasons he's here.  I've never heard Rodgers carrying on over 6th round or UDFA types.  I have no idea where you get that.

Cobb is a reliable WR that Rodgers trusts.  He has a phenomenal conversion rate on 3rd downs.  He's worth every penny he's being paid and is worthy of the roster spot over some young UDFA WR.

Dude I was talking about the poster you were responding to

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13 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Dude I was talking about the poster you were responding to

OK, thanks.  Part of your response sounded like you were talking about Rodgers (Saleh pandering to Rodgers), and another part sounded like you were talking about the poster.

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2 hours ago, mrcoops said:

If you can name some better Jets' coaches from the past four decades, I'm all ears.

I liked Mangini, he was sort of Parcells'ish but that style won't work anymore unless maybe you have some rings to sell the program to players. Even then players seem to avoid BB* (a my way discipline guy) when they can now that TB* isn't there. Their first round pick this year didn't seem too thrilled to be a part of the NE * way. I also like Al Groh, but see above. I think our best choice, choice C, would be an example that hasn't coached the Jets. The only type of coach you should look for is a coach who is dynamic and can adjust on and off the field. A coach who lives in one world or the other and doesn't adjust will generally fail unless they luck into a HoF FQB.

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2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Parcells act wouldn’t play in 2023.  It’s not 1986 or 1990 anymore.  He blew the playoffs twice in three seasons here with mental gaffs.  
Rex?  2 winning seasons with loaded rosters in 6 seasons.  Cute act, nothing more

The coaching staff that Parcells brought to the Jets was on a different planet for competency from this staff.  They coached players, all of them, put them in roles and got max effort out of them.  On top of it Parcells could coach any position, call offensive plays, defense, amazing focus on special teams.

This team had a couple of great staffs.  Parcells and his staff were incredible.  Weeb had a great staff.  Clive Rush, Walt Michaels and Buddy Ryan.

Both of those staffs would play in any era of NFL football.  Vince Lombardi was one of the greatest teaching coaches to ever walk the sidelines and people act like he was to tough to coach today.  He was a great teacher and he knew every aspect of the game as it was played in those days.

Great coaches communicate and teach.  Parcells was great at both of them.  He also surrounded himself with coaches he was in sync with.  

 

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I have not been a fan of coach Salesman since he got here, however, we will know for 100% certain whether he is or isn't the guy if this team comes out looking unprepared, lackluster, disinterested as they have countless times on his watch. In all honesty, I cannot see how this team doesn't win, even despite him, there is too much skill and talent here. If they start out losing game after game, we are going to have a full house cleaning next January which after all of this positivity and optimism, would suck.

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3 hours ago, Embrace the Suck said:

So a disciplinarian who called out players in the press that would be forced out of the league these days by prima donna athletes, or a clown who needs a stacked roster full of vets because he couldn't actually develop players (some might call it coaching), but was a lighting rod for attention/controversy. Is there a choice C?

Keyshawn, who was the biggest prima donna on the Jets, loved Parcells and played his ass off for the guy.

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41 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

I liked Mangini, he was sort of Parcells'ish but that style won't work anymore unless maybe you have some rings to sell the program to players. Even then players seem to avoid BB* (a my way discipline guy) when they can now that TB* isn't there. Their first round pick this year didn't seem too thrilled to be a part of the NE * way. I also like Al Groh, but see above. I think our best choice, choice C, would be an example that hasn't coached the Jets. The only type of coach you should look for is a coach who is dynamic and can adjust on and off the field. A coach who lives in one world or the other and doesn't adjust will generally fail unless they luck into a HoF FQB.

I liked Mangini, and he would be 3rd on my list. Really smart guy, an excellent Xs and Os coach, and he had a strong eye for talent - apart from the occasional Ohio State dud like Schlegel and Gholston.

He burned very brightly early, but flamed out quickly because be didn't have the pelts to back up his Belichickish persona and it wore down the entire team.

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40 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Keyshawn, who was the biggest prima donna on the Jets, loved Parcells and played his ass off for the guy.

Different times. Keyshawn 'just wanted the damn ball', and was willing to work hard. I don't remember Keyshawn ever dogging it or skipping camps. He liked attention, but he wasn't soft or lazy. 

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I think Saleh should stop coaching through the media. That drives me crazy. He needs to learn coach speak. Don’t give the media anything. 
 

His has learned to manage player rest better. That’s good. 
 

Keeping all 3 timeouts has gotten better. 
 

Defense seems to be creating more turnovers.  Rodgers should cut down on turnovers on offense. 
 

 

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2 hours ago, Biggs said:

The coaching staff that Parcells brought to the Jets was on a different planet for competency from this staff.  They coached players, all of them, put them in roles and got max effort out of them.  On top of it Parcells could coach any position, call offensive plays, defense, amazing focus on special teams.

This team had a couple of great staffs.  Parcells and his staff were incredible.  Weeb had a great staff.  Clive Rush, Walt Michaels and Buddy Ryan.

Both of those staffs would play in any era of NFL football.  Vince Lombardi was one of the greatest teaching coaches to ever walk the sidelines and people act like he was to tough to coach today.  He was a great teacher and he knew every aspect of the game as it was played in those days.

Great coaches communicate and teach.  Parcells was great at both of them.  He also surrounded himself with coaches he was in sync with.  

 

GREAT point. Saleh, not only seems out of his league, he brought in weak coaches as well. I guess he wanted them near so he could work out with them and play golf.

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6 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

GREAT point. Saleh, not only seems out of his league, he brought in weak coaches as well. I guess he wanted them near so he could work out with them and play golf.

When you hire a HC, you're also paying for his network. First-time HCs tend to have weaker networks.

Some weak HCs also do what I've seen in several companies -- I call it the sandbag wall theory. Weak managers hire weak employees to act as a sandbag wall of morons around them, believing that it will make them look better by comparison and give them greater job security because there are no ready-made successors breathing down their neck. Bowles was famous for his (e.g., Kacy Rodgers).

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3 minutes ago, jgb said:

When you hire a HC, you're also paying for his network. First-time HCs tend to have weaker networks.

Some weak HCs also do what I've seen in several companies -- I call it the sandbag wall theory. Weak managers hire weak employees to act as a sandbag wall of morons around them, believing that it will make them look better by comparison and give them greater job security because there are no ready-made successors breathing down their neck. Bowles was famous for his (e.g., Kacy Rodgers).

They are hired by weak owners.  All books on business acumen talk about hiring those who can do what you can't. Hire up.  

Woody can't hire well....   chris is worse.

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