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Why are GMs so stubborn? Re: OT


Wit

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I get that fans shouldn't make decisions and that there is a lot we don't know, but if its so freaking obvious that this team needs help at OT why doesn't the front office make a move? You have a short window with a 40 year old QB and you haven't traded for a significant piece yet? Screw next years picks! Trade for an OT, sign some more backups and be done with it. Its frustrating. (In full disclosure I'm a Yankees fan that has been watching Cashman make terrible and arrogant decisions for a decade, and sometimes JD gives off that vibe.)

Im assuming if an idiot like me can see this, Rodgers is definitely making a stink behind closed doors. One injury and this O line is toast. We need a major trade and a nice backup addition. 

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7 minutes ago, Wit said:

I get that fans shouldn't make decisions and that there is a lot we don't know, but if its so freaking obvious that this team needs help at OT why doesn't the front office make a move? You have a short window with a 40 year old QB and you haven't traded for a significant piece yet? Screw next years picks! Trade for an OT, sign some more backups and be done with it. Its frustrating. (In full disclosure I'm a Yankees fan that has been watching Cashman make terrible and arrogant decisions for a decade, and sometimes JD gives off that vibe.)

Im assuming if an idiot like me can see this, Rodgers is definitely making a stink behind closed doors. One injury and this O line is toast. We need a major trade and a nice backup addition. 

I understand the frustration, but it's evident that Joe Douglas has a well-thought-out plan. Instead of simply slotting players as LT, RT, and so on, he's looking for linemen who can handle multiple positions. It's not just about having players for specific spots; Douglas wants a team of linemen ready to step up wherever they're needed.

Consider Alijah Vera-Tucker. Yes, he's a top-notch guard, but he's also equipped to shift outside when the situation calls for it. With a 17-game season, having versatile players is crucial to handle unexpected changes and injuries.

And let's not forget how Douglas has approached the draft: the 11th, 129th, 14th (an OT who was later shifted to Guard), 111th, and 120th picks in the last four years. That's a strong sign of his commitment to this strategy. Instead of looking for quick fixes, Douglas is building a flexible and resilient O-line that can endure the challenges and deliver consistent performance.

It might take a few weeks to get things situated, but I'm confident they'll be able to put together a top 15 unit when the dust settles.

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Some totally reasonable replies above me. Also, there’s such a dearth of quality tackles out there that NFL teams aren’t really in the business of trading them very often.

It’s possible someone is available that we don’t know about it, but it’s not like there are multiple teams dangling good tackles out there publicly. And if there were, a bunch of teams would be in on them and the Jets don’t have a lot of assets after the Rodgers trade.

The mismanagement of the tackle position goes back way farther than not making a splash move in the summer.

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11 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

I don't understand what the issue is with the OL at this point. There have been what, 2 sacks in 2 meaningless games? Or is it because Rich Cimini says the OL is bad? I just don't get it.

I witnessed a minimum of 6 plays in the joint practice, probably more, that would have put Ridgers or Wilson on their asses.  OL had mucho troubles that practice 

 

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7 minutes ago, derp said:

Some totally reasonable replies above me. Also, there’s such a dearth of quality tackles out there that NFL teams aren’t really in the business of trading them very often.

It’s possible someone is available that we don’t know about it, but it’s not like there are multiple teams dangling good tackles out there publicly. And if there were, a bunch of teams would be in on them and the Jets don’t have a lot of assets after the Rodgers trade.

The mismanagement of the tackle position goes back way farther than not making a splash move in the summer.

I also think Douglas has run into some bad luck with the Cameron Clark and Max Mitchell health issues, too. Both were reasonable prospects whom you’d expect to contribute. 

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12 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

I understand the frustration, but it's evident that Joe Douglas has a well-thought-out plan. Instead of simply slotting players as LT, RT, and so on, he's looking for linemen who can handle multiple positions. It's not just about having players for specific spots; Douglas wants a team of linemen ready to step up wherever they're needed.

Consider Alijah Vera-Tucker. Yes, he's a top-notch guard, but he's also equipped to shift outside when the situation calls for it. With a 17-game season, having versatile players is crucial to handle unexpected changes and injuries.

And let's not forget how Douglas has approached the draft: the 11th, 129th, 14th (an OT who was later shifted to Guard), 111th, and 120th picks in the last four years. That's a strong sign of his commitment to this strategy. Instead of looking for quick fixes, Douglas is building a flexible and resilient O-line that can endure the challenges and deliver consistent performance.

It might take a few weeks to get things situated, but I'm confident they'll be able to put together a top 15 unit when the dust settles.

I tend to agree with this except for one key point, and it's a problem with Douglas.  He likes rolling the dice on older players with a pedigree.  We saw that with Ryan Kalil, and now we're seeing it with Duane Brown.  The 2023 OL plan really has to have Duane Brown capable of playing at some level of competency, yet he hasn't practiced and is coming off major shoulder surgery.  If he can't go, or his play has fallen off, we're in the same scramble mode we seem to be in every year, relying on Becton, putting Mitchell out there, playing AVT out of position, etc.   

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10 minutes ago, Dcat said:

I witnessed a minimum of 6 plays in the joint practice, probably more, that would have put Ridgers or Wilson on their asses.  OL had mucho troubles that practice 

 

If Billy Turner and Max Mitchell are our starting tackles with Joe Tippman learning a new position at G as they were in the joint practice, we are in trouble.  Would really like to see Duane Brown back on the field this week, and lets see how Becton progresses as he takes more snaps at RT.  Brown, AVT, Tipp or Mcg, Laken and Becton should be fine.

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4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I also think Douglas has run into some bad luck with the Cameron Clark and Max Mitchell health issues, too. Both were reasonable prospects whom you’d expect to contribute. 

I don’t know. Clark was a guard. Mitchell missed a couple games in a year he was a depth piece and he’s practicing now but not doing awesome.

Also, that’s why you don’t just use two fourth round picks on developmental OL and part of the cost of burning several on trades up.

He could have taken Wirfs at 11 in 2020 and Darrisaw at 23 in 2021 and just been done. Or just used the mid round picks on more guys.

We’ve also seen this summer how much easier it is to find answers on the iOL which I think demonstrates how high the bar for AVT is after the trade up. Not great resource allocation and a risky move. His fifth year option is going to be messy too.

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This OL is very suspect, and is basically relying on a 38 year old left tackle who is currently injured and Becton to regain his rookie form and stay healthy. This is a disaster waiting to happen. To all those who are saying things arent available right now, thats exactly the point, JD had months to find someone else in the draft or elsewhere, and instead we signed lazard, dalvin cook, hardman... there were people who could have been acquired months ago. This is arrogance. Front offices keep trying to reinvent the wheel, but doing so with an aging QB doesn't make much sense. Protect this dude, give him time to throw, and he will succeed. 

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27 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I also think Douglas has run into some bad luck with the Cameron Clark and Max Mitchell health issues, too. Both were reasonable prospects whom you’d expect to contribute. 

Well, yes and no. Both were 4th round picks, IIRC, which shouldn't be counted on to start necessarily, esp. not in their first year. Clark did nothing his first year, so he may have been on the way to busting even without the injury in TC the next year. Mitchell was rushed in last year due to JD being overly optimistic about Becton and Fant both coming back from knee injuries.

When you add in Becton and AVT injuries, yes, the Jets do seem to be getting more than their fair share of injuries to young drafted OL.

To JD's credit, he keeps drafting OL every year, way more than the awful Mike Mac did.

 

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6 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Give the Jets credit.  In a landscape where there aren't enough quality Offensive Linemen, we are solving the OL in a very creative way.

We are gathering all of the best Edge rushers on our team.  That way we won't need a great OL.

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That’s the silver lining. Even a sputtering offense will be fine with Rodgers because the D line should make for a shut down defense. 

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1 hour ago, Wit said:

I get that fans shouldn't make decisions and that there is a lot we don't know, but if its so freaking obvious that this team needs help at OT why doesn't the front office make a move? You have a short window with a 40 year old QB and you haven't traded for a significant piece yet? Screw next years picks! Trade for an OT, sign some more backups and be done with it. Its frustrating. (In full disclosure I'm a Yankees fan that has been watching Cashman make terrible and arrogant decisions for a decade, and sometimes JD gives off that vibe.)

Im assuming if an idiot like me can see this, Rodgers is definitely making a stink behind closed doors. One injury and this O line is toast. We need a major trade and a nice backup addition. 

I think we all know the answer but don't want to accept it.

 

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It's likely too late to do much meaningful at the position now, although they should keep an eye on final cutdowns / waiver wires for any potential depth improvements.  As others pointed out, there's enough OL issues throughout the league there's not likely much to be out there right now.  The greater issue is that not having been addressed months ago when it was known to be a team weakness, just as was the case with LB.

However, the problem there was you can't feasibly fix everything all at once, and this is the situation the Jets are still digging themselves out of after JD's first 3 years on the job turned out to be no different than Maccagnan's time.

Thankfully last year was the first step in the right direction, so let's hope that this year's all-in is successful as well, but there's only so much that can be done at once, so these are the consequences of past failures, not helped by the continuation of the sunk cost fallacy.

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

I think what’s gotten lost in this whole OL panic cycle is that 29 other teams are also dealing with severe deficits along their OLs too. Once the Jets get their starting five out there and know where the weaknesses are, they’ll compensate for them adequately enough, same as the rest of the league. 

What's with the kinder gentler dom shame?  You go on a plant medicine journey during the offseason? 

Get your edge back, snowflake. 

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I don’t know what more Douglas can do except maybe try to make a trade.  The really good oline players are already with their teams.  As for the guys he’s bringing in, every season it’s been the same. The fans complain about the oline without really know what’s going on at trading camp. And unless one is lucky enough to go see a training camp we have to rely on talking heads like Costello or Cimini. And they put their spin on things to sell copy.

 Getting back to the guys Douglas has brought in, they’ve all had some success and not all are old and moldy.

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There is not much douglas can do at this point in time.  There are no good ots out there now.

You can;t trade for them.

He could not do anything at the draft either, once we dropped down those two spots all the top end ots were gone.

Now the big fail part of the tackle equation where he did make a terrible move and needs to own it is Billy Turner.  We gave rodgers and hackett some Wrs but that kind of gift had to end at the oline.  Turner can't play.

Also becasue the rodgers contract was not renegotiated at the time it was tought to make any big plays at FA.

I simply do not think Becton is reliable at all so all of this good play and Rt play is nothing but a tease.  He will get hurt.

Our OTs this year will be Brown and AVT and they better not get hurt.

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45 minutes ago, Wit said:

I know you have been down on this Rodgers move, but what do you mean?

That JD doesn't view this team as highly as many of us do.   And not going all in on the next two seasons as I thought he would have.

There is really no other logical explanation for going into the season with no healthy starting caliber T's and not bringing in a legitimate#2 receiving weapon.

If he believed this team had a legit shot at winning a SB he would have....

 

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7 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

That JD doesn't view this team as highly as many of us do.   And not going all in on the next two seasons as I thought he would have.

There is really no other logical explanation for going into the season with no healthy starting caliber T's and not bringing in a legitimate#2 receiving weapon.

If he believed this team had a legit shot at winning a SB he would have....

 

Or, perhaps he views this team more highly than you do.

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7 minutes ago, Lith said:

Or, perhaps he views this team more highly than you do.

It's definitely possible he views the T situation as better than I do.  And that would explain a lot. 

I really like this team and believe it can compete for a championship - I think not having T's is going to be a major hindrance to making that happen though.

If Joe thinks/thought the T situation was championship caliber then so be it.  But I think that would be even more worrisome.

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