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I'm Still Not Sold On Zach Wilson


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I could also get into all the specific differences between AR & ZW, but it’s so much easier to just repeat what I say to my wife (who doesn’t know football) when she asks me how the Jets will do this year:

”With Aaron Rodgers we have a chance to be a really good team this year . . . without AR and ZW as our QB again we don’t.”

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Amazing?  Really?  And what did the post of mine you quote have to do with your emotions?  It’s a true statement:  A QB with a limited ceiling but low floor is “boring” at best.  
Refute the point.  Go ahead.  Tell me where this secret ceiling or high floor is for Zach.  
Can't establish limits where they don't exist ... That is where the term Skies the Limit originated from.

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21 hours ago, slats said:

So without any pushback on this list at all (I don’t have the energy right now, but there’s definitely some reaching going on here), you’re saying 17 teams have a better backup situation than the Jets, which would put them pretty much in the middle of the pack. 
 
I’d also suggest that a number of these teams have unsettled starting QB situations, making a viable backup/alternative all the more important. 
 
But I’ll take middle of the pack for a player I hope never sees the field. 

 

The list wasn't comprehensive.  Now that I have had a chance to review the preseason performances of some notable QBs I can add to it.  

  • Drew Lock (SEA):  38-55 (69.1 %), 460 yds, 8.4 YPA, 3 TDs, 1 INT, 105.1 QB Rating
  • Aidan O'Connell (LV):  43-62 (69.4 %), 482 yds, 7.8 YPA, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, 108.4 QB Rating  - @Raideraholic
  • Dorian Thompson-Robinson (CLE):  37-58 (63.8 %), 440 yds, 7.6 YPA, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 98.3 QB Rating 
  • Kyle Trask (TB):  45-69 (65.2 %), 509 yds, 7.4 YPA, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 90.8 QB Rating
  • Tim Boyle (NYJ):  37-56 (66.1 %), 358 yds, 6.4 YPA, 4 TDs, 2 INTs, 92.7 QB Rating
  • CJ Beathard (JAX):  26-43 (60.5 %), 352 yds, 8.2 YPA, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 92.4 QB Rating

The above can be added to my prior list below, bringing the total to 27 backups I'd comfortably take over Wilson. 

That slots in Zach as QB60 overall, which sounds about right.

 

  • Jameis Winston (NO)
  • Gardner Minshew (IND)
  • Jacoby Brissett (WSH)
  • Andy Dalton (CAR)
  • Tyrod Taylor (NYG)
  • Mitch Trubisky (PIT)
  • Davis Mills & Case Keenum (HOU)
  • Teddy Bridgewater (DET)
  • Tyler Huntley & Josh Johnson (BAL)
  • Cooper Rush (DAL)
  • Bailey Zappe (NE)
  • Taylor Heinicke (ATL)
  • Sam Darnold (SF)
  • Mike White (MIA)
  • Blaine Gabbert (KC)
  • Nick Mullens (MIN)
  • Will Grier (DAL/FA)
  • PJ Walker (CHI/FA)
  • Colt McCoy (AZ/FA)
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Honestly, a lot of those short passes if they are caught by Breece, and Garrett and Lazard they are likely going for more yards than Brownlee and Bam.

He is far away from starter ready, but if h can get the ball in to the hands of playmakers that's what you are looking for in a backup QB.

His deep ball is looking pretty good as well this off-season.

Not sold on him as a starter, but since the money is getting paid either way he is both a cheap, and probably a decent backup. 

I have to believe the game plan will be better with a better offensive staff, playmakers around him will be better, and he will have AR in his face coaching him between drives if he is forced in to a start or two.  A much better situation for him than last year, I just hope we don't have to see it for another few years.

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Honestly, a lot of those short passes if they are caught by Breece, and Garrett and Lazard they are likely going for more yards than Brownlee and Bam.
He is far away from starter ready, but if h can get the ball in to the hands of playmakers that's what you are looking for in a backup QB.
His deep ball is looking pretty good as well this off-season.
Not sold on him as a starter, but since the money is getting paid either way he is both a cheap, and probably a decent backup. 
I have to believe the game plan will be better with a better offensive staff, playmakers around him will be better, and he will have AR in his face coaching him between drives if he is forced in to a start or two.  A much better situation for him than last year, I just hope we don't have to see it for another few years.

I think you put it perfectly with this post. Fair and accurate.


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1 hour ago, rtnelson said:

Honestly, a lot of those short passes if they are caught by Breece, and Garrett and Lazard they are likely going for more yards than Brownlee and Bam.

I mean maybe but those receivers are also facing guys whose NFL careers will be over by 4 PM today, so it goes both ways no?

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I am not sold on Zach either. However, I am not ready to conclude that he can never be a good qb. To me, his worst problems coming into this season were: 1. Poor pocket presence lowlighted by his pirouettes and retreating from the pocket;   To me, this was the most important problem. 2. Failure to complete dinks, dunks, and screen passes;    3. Inaccuracy on crossing patterns, with too many passes that were  behind the receiver .On the plus side, he has always been quite good on passes outside the numbers 

I watched every snap that Zach took during the pre-season, and saw much improved pocket presence and completion of easy short passes. Is there anyone here who did *not* see this?


He still threw behind receivers more than we would like.  

So, in my opinion, Zach showed that he is capable of learning and improving.  Will he improve enough to become a good nfl qb?   I don’t know, and neither does anyone else on this board.  What bothers me the most about this subject is that many only present evidence that fits with their preconceived notions.  So his last incomplete pass , admittedly a terrible pass that should have been a td is presented as proof that Zach will always suck.  His other deep ball that was dropped by Hardman is ignored, or even blamed on Zach.

We can all believe whatever we want about Zach. But to ignore any signs of improvement impedes discussion  

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, JoeFan said:

I am not sold on Zach either. However, I am not ready to conclude that he can never be a good qb.

Small chance he could but there’s no good reason to think it’ll be with the Jets.

Those emotionally invested in his development have to understand they’re essentially rooting for him to eventually benefit some other team.  

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3 hours ago, JoeFan said:

I watched every snap that Zach took during the pre-season, and saw much improved pocket presence and completion of easy short passes. Is there anyone here who did *not* see this?

but your comparing preseason to regular season. NFL starters vs backups and guys who wont make the team. 

i sure hoped he looked better. 

if your going to have a fair comparison compare it to his other ( only 1 ) preseason. in his rookie year his 2 games matched his 1st 2 games this year almost to the number. and we all know how good he was that year.

he didnt improve, he is just doing what he always does, plays good in preseason, TC, practice. how many times did we hear how good Zach looked in practice then come Sunday he sucks.

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23 minutes ago, doitny said:

but your comparing preseason to regular season. NFL starters vs backups and guys who wont make the team. 

i sure hoped he looked better. 

if your going to have a fair comparison compare it to his other ( only 1 ) preseason. in his rookie year his 2 games matched his 1st 2 games this year almost to the number. and we all know how good he was that year.

he didnt improve, he is just doing what he always does, plays good in preseason, TC, practice. how many times did we hear how good Zach looked in practice then come Sunday he sucks.

Heard last training camp he was particularly inaccurate, and there was a lot of concern, ab his foot work , as it was horrible, held on to the ball etc…This year, his fundamentals, short passes, foot work, didn’t always stare at one side of the field, much better… However… he needs to figure out how to get touchdowns, not just field goals, he’s definitely getting better, got a long way to go…  this post written with voice text, yikes

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12 minutes ago, LSJF said:

Heard last training camp he was particularly inaccurate, and there was a lot of concern, ab his foot work , as it was horrible, held on to the ball etc…This year, his fundamentals, short passes, foot work, didn’t always stare at one side of the field, much better… However… he needs to figure out how to get touchdowns, not just field goals, he’s definitely getting better, got a long way to go…  this post written with voice text, yikes

Ask yourself if there are QBs on the market who would give the Jets a better shot to win if Rodgers were to get hurt.

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9 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Ask yourself if there are QBs on the market who would give the Jets a better shot to win if Rodgers were to get hurt.

Not that are on the market…not blown away by the crop, so I’ll stay with the devil we know…

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4 minutes ago, LSJF said:

Not that are on the market…not blown away by the crop, so I’ll stay with the devil we know…

I think it’s fair to say Zappe is ahead of Wilson. The Jets are not picking up Wilson’s 5th year option next season. Getting the best player behind Rodgers this year should be high priority. 9-10 teams vying for 7 slots in the AFC. It’s about this year only now. If Rodgers has to miss a few weeks that could be the difference between playoffs or not.

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47 minutes ago, doitny said:

but your comparing preseason to regular season. NFL starters vs backups and guys who wont make the team. 

i sure hoped he looked better. 

if your going to have a fair comparison compare it to his other ( only 1 ) preseason. in his rookie year his 2 games matched his 1st 2 games this year almost to the number. and we all know how good he was that year.

he didnt improve, he is just doing what he always does, plays good in preseason, TC, practice. how many times did we hear how good Zach looked in practice then come Sunday he sucks.

Of course preseason games are different.  Can’t argue that point. However, wasn’t Zach also playing with some backups and guys who didn’t make the team?  Is it only other other teams who played scrubs or did Zach also play with some?  For example how many passes did Zach get to throw to Garret Wilson?  Were there *any*?

I will be honest.  I have no idea if Zach would be ok if Rodgers gets injured. He might wet the bed. I hope we don’t have to find out. But you have never seen him play with a healthy Becton or Duane Brown or with Dalvin Cook.  And what was our record last year without those guys when Breece Hall went down?  With Zach as the qb.  By the way, did he look like a chump in the Pittsburgh game last year ?  I seem to remember a huge 3rd down completion to Denzel Mims, of all people. 

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On 8/27/2023 at 10:42 AM, SoFlaJets said:

He's is Brooks Bollinger 2.0. If you'll recall Brooksy could move the ball from the 20 to the 20 but always had a hard time putting it in the end zone. That misfire to a wide open who was it, Kenny Yeboah? is so typical of Wilson's shortcomings. Then I watched Tim Boyle dropping back, standing tall in the pocket and firing the ball DOWNFIELD. Then, putting the ball in the end zone. Once again, the Woody Johnson Jets are factoring into roster decision making, the position of WHERE a player was drafted by the team. They have been doing it since the turn of the century and it never works out, they let the better players go because the team drafted them. And yes, I think they're about to do the same thing with Wilson.

Having followed BB’s career from the Dakota’s through Wisconsin, where I met him and to the Jets , allow me to say ZW is nothing like the brave , intelligent , high character  BB in any way shape or form and in most areas, frankly, that is a good thing.

ZW is 2 inches taller, ZW is much faster , ZW has  a much stronger arm .

BB was smart, gallant and would have had a better chance in todays game where concussing the QB purposely and trying to separate his shoulders is no longer allowed.

I never wanted ZW, I wanted to trade down and my second favorite QB was Fields, not ZW but the truth is the truth, ZW May or may not bust, I think he can indeed play in the league but no point in saying he’s worse than he is , he has a much better chance than Brooks ever had to be a NFL QB, he just is bigger, faster with a stronger arm, better prospect.

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38 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I think it’s fair to say Zappe is ahead of Wilson. The Jets are not picking up Wilson’s 5th year option next season. Getting the best player behind Rodgers this year should be high priority. 9-10 teams vying for 7 slots in the AFC. It’s about this year only now. If Rodgers has to miss a few weeks that could be the difference between playoffs or not.

Zappe? Not blown away, if somebody real was available sure… But another never been? Nahh

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27 minutes ago, Leftylarry said:

Having followed BB’s career from the Dakota’s through Wisconsin, where I met him and to the Jets , allow me to say ZW is nothing like the brave , intelligent , high character  BB in any way shape or form and in most areas, frankly, that is a good thing.

ZW is 2 inches taller, ZW is much faster , ZW has  a much stronger arm .

BB was smart, gallant and would have had a better chance in todays game where concussing the QB purposely and trying to separate his shoulders is no longer allowed.

I never wanted ZW, I wanted to trade down and my second favorite QB was Fields, not ZW but the truth is the truth, ZW May or may not bust, I think he can indeed play in the league but no point in saying he’s worse than he is , he has a much better chance than Brooks ever had to be a NFL QB, he just is bigger, faster with a stronger arm, better prospect.

Bollinger was a 6th round pick.  He and Zach shouldn't be compared in that way....  IMO.

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1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

I think it’s fair to say Zappe is ahead of Wilson. The Jets are not picking up Wilson’s 5th year option next season. Getting the best player behind Rodgers this year should be high priority. 9-10 teams vying for 7 slots in the AFC. It’s about this year only now. If Rodgers has to miss a few weeks that could be the difference between playoffs or not.

To whom...You? Does Zappe even know this offense? How is that the best for this team in making the playoffs?

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1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

I think it’s fair to say Zappe is ahead of Wilson. The Jets are not picking up Wilson’s 5th year option next season. Getting the best player behind Rodgers this year should be high priority. 9-10 teams vying for 7 slots in the AFC. It’s about this year only now. If Rodgers has to miss a few weeks that could be the difference between playoffs or not.

Zappe is definitely ahead of Zach Wilson. He actually looked like a NFL starter, and gave mac legit challenge. Had him as best backup in afc. Not sure what bb is thinking. 

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On 8/28/2023 at 8:34 PM, WeCantDraftGoodQBs said:

I could also get into all the specific differences between AR & ZW, but it’s so much easier to just repeat what I say to my wife (who doesn’t know football) when she asks me how the Jets will do this year:

”With Aaron Rodgers we have a chance to be a really good team this year . . . without AR and ZW as our QB again we don’t.”

Yeah, and I’m guessing someone who came up with your name wouldn’t have an anti ZW agenda.

Or did your wife come up with it?  😂

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3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

My statement was that he out-performed Zach Wilson, which he did.  I didn’t say he played well.  It’s a low bar we’re talking about here.  

Which he did not.  
No one anywhere agrees with this but do go on.

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2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

I think it’s fair to say Zappe is ahead of Wilson. The Jets are not picking up Wilson’s 5th year option next season. Getting the best player behind Rodgers this year should be high priority. 9-10 teams vying for 7 slots in the AFC. It’s about this year only now. If Rodgers has to miss a few weeks that could be the difference between playoffs or not.

Based on what?  The extensive library of Zappe tape vs NFL competition you’ve studied?  
 

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