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This Offense is not ready to hang with the big boys


Barton

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1 hour ago, Claymation said:

The conversation was, losing Garrett Wilson makes the WR group one of the worst in the league. My response was losing Gardner would make the CB group one of the worst in the league.

Don't agree with this. DJ is a very good CB as well. There isn't a DJ equivalent in the WR room IMO

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11 minutes ago, billo83 said:

Don't agree with this. DJ is a very good CB as well. There isn't a DJ equivalent in the WR room IMO

 

4 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Hall is awful and DJ would be the #1 CB

I agree that Hall is awful and that DJ would be the #1 CB, but what about Echols?  He would be the #2.  Hall would be the #2 this week, but I think Echols is ahead of him.

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3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

that's true

but there's a wide gap between better than Zach and super bowl bound

Well, I’m a big believer of making playoffs is a successful season. After that, small sample size variance can easily propel inferior teams to a championship. I think we are about 70% likely to make the playoffs with Rodgers and I will take that.

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17 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

The Raiders easily top  five  Wr Corp  Devante Adams , Jakobi Meyers , and Hunter Renfrow.     All them are excellent route runners. Please play them man to man and they will destroy your cbs .  Raiders added much needed speed Tre Tucker, and Deandre Carter .  They have Josh Jacobs , and Josh Mcdaniels a play caller who puts those rbs in position to have success ( design of the play)  Best blocking Fb in the game - you seen him with patriots Jakob Johnson .     There Tes again are excellent route runners ( m Mayer , Hooper, and J Horsted (       Raiders offense line is excellent with LT k Miller ( top 5 to 7 Lt in game. Lg D Parham c Andre James rg Greg Rotten( jet  reject but eventually see Eluemunor sliding to guard.   Rt J Eluemunor ( eventually T Munford)     I take Rotten over getting rid of Alex Bars.   
Raiders were just outside the top 10 that with them missing Hunter Renfrow and D Waller for most of the season.   And Mack Hollins as their number 2.    
Raiders are going to move the football on any defense.    They have to score in the red zone then settle for field goal.  JIMMY G numbers are way better than D Carr in the red zone.    Both they’re kicker and punter top three.  

Lol Jimmy g is not good bro. Sorry to break it to you. Carr was.mucj better. Rest of offense is great but the QB is the prob

I do think Adams will get his etc. But ultimately Jimmy is going to be exposed. 49ers who were stacked hated him. You guys will too. But you guys top 10 for sure, just from Adams and Jacobs. Your coaching and QB will prevent you from doing anything good this year 

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1 minute ago, jgb said:

Well, I’m a big believer of making playoffs is a successful season. After that, small sample size variance can easily propel inferior teams to a championship. I think we are about 70% likely to make the playoffs with Rodgers and I will take that.

I think you're overrating the chance

the schedule is a beast and the AFC is loaded 

playoffs are a coinflip at best

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Just now, bitonti said:

I think you're overrating the chance

the schedule is a beast and the AFC is loaded 

playoffs are a coinflip at best

You should bet against the Jets for sure then since the imputed odds of Jets to make playoffs is 58%

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18 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I think much of this is fair - the Jets offense will be fine...but when discussing the team I'm looking at the ability to win a championship.  Is this a championship caliber offense for today's NFL?  I'm not so sure.

I think it can be - IF, as you stated, Rodgers is a top 5 QB.  If he's more in the 10 range, I think this offense falls short.

I mean even if we take your numbers - "name 5 teams better than us" I think there are 5 no brainers - Philly, KC, Cincy, Bill and SF.....And being the 5th best team doesn't even get you a championship game.  

So I'll ask the question - is a WC round win and out enough for you?  Would you consider that a successful season?  If so, and I guess it's reasonable considering our recent history, then yes, the offense is fine.

I think I was ref wr specifically, but sure those teams are.top teams but we are better than the bills for sure with arod, KC has less playmakers but they have to be fav, we are better than cinn and sf.

Look I'm happy with a WC entry to playoffs, but I think we win the div and the AFC. It's will be successful if we win the east. But if we make WC and win afc. Haha I'm good with it.

I'm not sure how you can't love our chances. Our pass rush makes many of these.teams much easier to beat, they won't be scoring 45 on us. I'm think KC specifically. Buffalo we beat with out Rodgers, burrow might not make the whole game.with our passrush etc

I'd say we are much better than where you might have us pegged.

 But wc and out is big let down. I don't even think that is possible with how good the team is. If we are wc, then who is the first match up after? No one the jets are scared of

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20 hours ago, T0mShane said:

To be fair to Barton, I heard an AFC East preview today and one of the Rodgers-hating, Jets-mocking hipsters said the Jets wouldn’t win because “outside of Garrett Wilson” the Jets skills guys “lack explosiveness.” In the next breath, he said the Bills are favorites because “they have Trent Sherfield” and Miami would be good because they “have weapons all over the place.” Braxton Berrios and River Cracraft are going to play significant snaps for Miami. Their top two backs are injured. Their starting TE is Durham Smythe

Listened to another one (Ben Solak, Ringer) today where the Jets finished third in the division because…

1. BILLS: Josh Allen is the closest thing to Pat Mahomes and can’t be stopped (Jets held Allen’s unstoppable offense to 20 and 17 points last year). 
 

2. DOLPHINS: The Dolphins offense cannot be stopped (Jets held them to 17 and 11 points last year), and Vic Fangio’s defense can’t be scored on (Fangio’s defense is two high zone coverage behind a 3-4 front. The Dolphins do not have the personnel to run this. Christian Wilkins is not a nose tackle, Bradley Chubb is too small to play 3-4 end, and Jaelen Phillips can’t play OLB. Fangio was just interviewed about this fact and he said, bluntly, that he has some players who fit, but they’ll have to find other players to fit in that defense.)

3. JETS: For the Jets, the entire premise of the complaint is that Rodgers is going to get big mad at Breece Hall for not picking up a blitz and demand that Dalvin Cook—who is a notoriously lackadaisical pass blocker—should get all the snaps. Likewise, Rodgers will get big mad at Garrett Wilson for running a wrong route and he’ll force the coaches to start Randall Cobb or some sh*t. Basically, Angry Rodgers Fan Fiction because he was allegedly mean to two rookie receivers from football powerhouses North Dakota State and Nevada who didn’t know how to play football. 

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4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the schedule is a beast and the AFC is loaded 

We’ve heard this one enough. Every team in the division essentially has the same schedule. If anything, being the last place team, the Jets should have the easiest one. They’re the only divisional team not traveling to Europe this year, and they get Philly and KC at home. The schedule is absolutely not a factor when it comes to winning the division. 

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48 minutes ago, JohnnyLV said:

It feels like Cobb is 37 years old but he is 33. WRs can still perform very well at the age. Judging by hard knocks he seems to be a perfect WR coach candidate.

Watching Cobb run around I got a 2010 Hines Ward vibe.  Not really fair, since Ward kept producing right through and Cobb has already had 3 down years, but he doesn't seem done to me.  I'd prefer him to Beasley or Crowder at this point. 

17 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

The Raiders easily top  five  Wr Corp  Devante Adams , Jakobi Meyers , and Hunter Renfrow.     All them are excellent route runners. Please play them man to man and they will destroy your cbs .  Raiders added much needed speed Tre Tucker, and Deandre Carter .  They have Josh Jacobs , and Josh Mcdaniels a play caller who puts those rbs in position to have success ( design of the play)  Best blocking Fb in the game - you seen him with patriots Jakob Johnson .     There Tes again are excellent route runners ( m Mayer , Hooper, and J Horsted (       Raiders offense line is excellent with LT k Miller ( top 5 to 7 Lt in game. Lg D Parham c Andre James rg Greg Rotten( jet  reject but eventually see Eluemunor sliding to guard.   Rt J Eluemunor ( eventually T Munford)     I take Rotten over getting rid of Alex Bars.   
Raiders were just outside the top 10 that with them missing Hunter Renfrow and D Waller for most of the season.   And Mack Hollins as their number 2.    
Raiders are going to move the football on any defense.    They have to score in the red zone then settle for field goal.  JIMMY G numbers are way better than D Carr in the red zone.    Both they’re kicker and punter top three.  

When you wonder why people get on you, I want you to go back and read whatever you said last year about the Raiders Oline and then remember that you are now claiming that GVR is an upgrade.  

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15 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

I think I was ref wr specifically, but sure those teams are.top teams but we are better than the bills for sure with arod, KC has less playmakers but they have to be fav, we are better than cinn and sf.

Look I'm happy with a WC entry to playoffs, but I think we win the div and the AFC. It's will be successful if we win the east. But if we make WC and win afc. Haha I'm good with it.

I'm not sure how you can't love our chances. Our pass rush makes many of these.teams much easier to beat, they won't be scoring 45 on us. I'm think KC specifically. Buffalo we beat with out Rodgers, burrow might not make the whole game.with our passrush etc

I'd say we are much better than where you might have us pegged.

 But wc and out is big let down. I don't even think that is possible with how good the team is. If we are wc, then who is the first match up after? No one the jets are scared of

I think this is a playoff team.  Just not sure championship caliber yet.  

I would be shocked if the D doesn't finish in the top 5 - likely top 3.  But the O has me concerned.  Top half of the league sure (yes, better than we've had in a long time) Good enough to go to a Super Bowl.  I'm not sold.  And I believe in today's NFL Offense Wins Championships.

Look, against my better judgement, you guys have beaten me down to the point I'm starting to buy into the Rodgers hype.  I sure hope it really was a thumb and not old age.  We're going to find out soon enough.

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3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I think this is a playoff team.  Just not sure championship caliber yet.  

I would be shocked if the D doesn't finish in the top 5 - likely top 3.  But the O has me concerned.  Top half of the league sure (yes, better than we've had in a long time) Good enough to go to a Super Bowl.  I'm not sold.  And I believe in today's NFL Offense Wins Championships.

Look, against my better judgement, you guys have beaten me down to the point I'm starting to buy into the Rodgers hype.  I sure hope it really was a thumb and not old age.  We're going to find out soon enough.

It sort of has to be.

If not this year, then next year.

Even if Rodgers is willing to play longer, he'll be in his age 40 season in '24.

The cliff could come at any time.  When it does, it's not pretty.

Just look at Big Ben, Matt Ryan, even Peyton the year the defense carried him to a title in Denver.

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22 hours ago, Barton said:

The NFL champion the last 10+ years usually includes an offense that had to win multiple high scoring shootouts during the regular season to win their division and often another shootout during the postseason to advance to the Super Bowl. Right now this team is built more like the Seahawks or Ravens teams that have won in the last 12 years. Led by the defense and good enough QB play but with a substandard supporting cast on offense. My point? The talent on offense is lacking right now around Rodgers. Garrett Wilson is the only receiver he can count on to get open fairly consistently. JD needs to add more firepower. 

They haven't played even one game. How can you say this? You have zero proof that this is the case. 

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28 minutes ago, slats said:

For all of the consistent whining about the OL, it looks to be shaping up to be a top third type unit. They’ve been hyper vigilant about the injuries, and brought Becton and Brown as slow as humanly possible, but they’re both set to start opening day. The interior, led by AVT, is just fine. Like to see Tippmann work his way into the starting lineup sooner rather than later, but they’re good to go. Especially with a QB who doesn’t hold the ball longer than anyone else in the league and a RB in Breece who’s fully capable of creating on his own. 
 
Rodgers, Garrett, and Breece is a top level trio of talent. They have the supplemental pieces around them. The only concern is injuries, but that’s everyone’s concern. 

Yeah Rodgers is literally the fastest QB in the NFL in snap-to-throw now that Brady has retired. A full 0.4 seconds on average faster than Zach (who was dead last last season). That’s pretty massive in terms of the OL needing to sustain blocks.

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34 minutes ago, slats said:

For all of the consistent whining about the OL, it looks to be shaping up to be a top third type unit. They’ve been hyper vigilant about the injuries, and brought Becton and Brown as slow as humanly possible, but they’re both set to start opening day. The interior, led by AVT, is just fine. Like to see Tippmann work his way into the starting lineup sooner rather than later, but they’re good to go. Especially with a QB who doesn’t hold the ball longer than anyone else in the league and a RB in Breece who’s fully capable of creating on his own. 
 
Rodgers, Garrett, and Breece is a top level trio of talent. They have the supplemental pieces around them. The only concern is injuries, but that’s everyone’s concern. 

Yeah, for all the whinging about the OL all summer long, the beat guys failed to mention that the Jets yielded all of two sacks in three preseason games (3 if you count the HoF game). Really sounds like it’s more of a Max Mitchell problem than it is a systemic problem. 

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4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Yeah, for all the whinging about the OL all summer long, the beat guys failed to mention that the Jets yielded all of two sacks in three preseason games (3 if you count the HoF game). Really sounds like it’s more of a Max Mitchell problem than it is a systemic problem. 

It’s also incredibly difficult to block for a QB who doesn’t know how to use the pocket and runs in a random direction whenever there is pressure 

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46 minutes ago, slats said:

We’ve heard this one enough. Every team in the division essentially has the same schedule. If anything, being the last place team, the Jets should have the easiest one. They’re the only divisional team not traveling to Europe this year, and they get Philly and KC at home. The schedule is absolutely not a factor when it comes to winning the division. 

the schedule is favorable in terms of miles of travel and net rest (I believe they play teams on shorter rest than them 4x this season, MIA among them 

the schedule is not favorable in terms of teams they play and (for what it's worth) historic records in those games. They've never beaten Philly, ever. At Denver (again) with Revenge. Kansas City, the Giants and NEP games are always spicy. Even Cleveland could be sneaky good with Deshaun (Elijah Moore revenge)

they also don't have alot of success in Prime time, over the last few decades or so 

Last year that 5-2 start was at 1p and against QB backups. This year every game will be like a playoff matchup. Teams are going to be gunning for them I don't see any real easy outs until after the bye 

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4 hours ago, Claymation said:

So Bryce Hall is on par talent wise with Sauce...Seriously?

No. But Hall is the Jets 5th CB. If that. I think the coaching staff might even have more confidence in Hardee over Hall in an emergency situation so you could argue he is the 6th CB. 

So, if Sauce goes down:

1. The Jets Jets have Reed as a #1 caliber lock down CB.

2. They have a stud nickel in MC. 
3. They can have Echols who has been playing really well and will only miss one game due to suspension. 

4. They can simply play more Nickel or Nickel variations with an extra safety on certain plays when they need extra defensive backs.

5. If they DO need to go into their depth for an emergency CB, like I said, it would probably be Hardee as the 5th guy on the depth chart. We are talking Dime packages only. Packages that the Jets don’t implement very often anyway. 
 

So if Sauce goes down they may not even need to look at Hall or that far down the depth chart for help…like ever. And to suggest that the Jets depth at CB is weak or ‘one of the worst in the league’ is completely absurd. It’s one of their strongest and deepest units behind D-line.

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4 hours ago, Claymation said:

The conversation was, losing Garrett Wilson makes the WR group one of the worst in the league. My response was losing Gardner would make the CB group one of the worst in the league.

Just want to clarify. The CB room is much deeper and proven than the WR room. So yes, losing Wilson will really hurt. Losing Sauce will hurt but not make this one of the worst CB rooms in the league. That’s just silly. Next man up- Reed, Carter, Echols, Hardee, Hall.
 

Also just a weird comparison. Apples to oranges. Rodgers will make our weak WRs just a bit more productive but will also depend on the online. Pass rush will help some deficiencies in CB play. And as I said, Saleh loves using multiple safeties and will probably adjust to multiple safety looks if one of his starting CBS goes down.

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1 minute ago, PepPep said:

Just want to clarify. The CB room is much deeper and proven than the WR room. So yes, losing Wilson will really hurt. Losing Sauce will hurt but not make this one of the worst CB rooms in the league. That’s just silly. Next man up- Reed, Carter, Echols, Hardee, Hall.
 

Also just a weird comparison. Apples to oranges. Rodgers will make our weak WRs just a bit more productive but will also depend on the online. Pass rush will help some deficiencies in CB play. And as I said, Saleh loves using multiple safeties and will probably adjust to multiple safety looks if one of his starting CBS goes down.

The correct question is if every team loses its #1, where would we rate?

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Just now, jgb said:

The correct question is if every team loses its #1, where would we rate?

Probably pretty high up there. Reed is a legit #1 playing #2 and Carter is one of the best young slot CBs in the league (riser). Echols would need to show out, but probably pretty high up there. I would imagine if you took away the #1 from every other team, most #2, slot and remaining depth would not look as good. 

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