Scott Dierking Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 This conversation is a joke. This, coming from you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 AFJF-I went over this with Matt- Steinbrenner was enamored with Met matinee idols of the mid 80's. He saw an opportunity to glom off the Mets bandwagon, when the Mets were losing fan base back to the Yankees in the city, and he helped kick start that by bringing over some former Mets that were popular. AGAIN, A VERY SMART MOVE. You seem enamored with Guitterman, but that was hardly a key cog in a Yankee championship, nor was he endeared to by fans. I told Matt that he had a point with Randolph, and that some Met fans expressed that feeling. To deny what happened is demeaning to both of us here. It was well known. Yeah but c'mon man...Gutterman had worn the pinstripes baby....all the rings, history and tradition...the lowly 2 world champinship Mets were trying to capitalize on the pinstripe tradition....again...riddiculous enough for you? The only thing I can draw from this is that you want to believe that the Mets in some way one upped the Yankees by having the previously mentioned players in their prime, when the Yankees signed them near the end of their careers. If that makes you feel good then fine. But if you honestly believe that in the heat of a penant race, George Steinbrenner gave a damn who David Cone used to pitch for then youre dillussional. He was trying to get an Ace and Cone was available...end of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 This, coming from you? regardless of who it's coming from...the statement is accurate. I'm done with this one. Way too silly for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 This, coming from you? Thanks. My point was fighting over why someone signed someone is a joke. How do we really know but I apprecite where you're coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Yeah but c'mon man...Gutterman had worn the pinstripes baby....all the rings, history and tradition...the lowly 2 world champinship Mets were trying to capitalize on the pinstripe tradition....again...riddiculous enough for you? The only thing I can draw from this is that you want to believe that the Mets in some way one upped the Yankees by having the previously mentioned players in their prime, when the Yankees signed them near the end of their careers. If that makes you feel good then fine. But if you honestly believe that in the heat of a penant race, George Steinbrenner gave a damn who David Cone used to pitch for then youre dillussional. He was trying to get an Ace and Cone was available...end of story. If you can not understand the concept, ok. If it somehow hurts you, or demeans you as a Yankee fan, I apologize and will allow you to stay in your sanitary Yankee bubble, rocking back and forth in a Leo Mazzone trance stating "the Yankees are original, the Yankees are original" Good luck in that stupor. Reality can be so harsh at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Thanks. My point was fighting over why someone signed someone is a joke. How do we really know but I apprecite where you're coming from. Smizzy-Ity was well written about and known how Steinbrenner was jealous over the Mets of the 80's. And YES, the Mets of today are in similar straits looking at the Yankees. I am not stupid to realize that. But deny what happened, and why it happened, is plain old naivete'. Steinbrenner saw an opportunity and grasped it,. It put fannies in teh seats. SMART SMART SMART Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Smizzy-Ity was well written about and known how Steinbrenner was jealous over the Mets of the 80's. And YES, the Mets of today are in similar straits looking at the Yankees. I am not stupid to realize that. But deny what happened, and why it happened, is plain old naivete'. Steinbrenner saw an opportunity and grasped it,. It put fannies in teh seats. SMART SMART SMART Come on man. Bobby Ojeda, Rafael Santana and Lee Mazzili were not putting fans in the seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Come on man. Bobby Ojeda, Rafael Santana and Lee Mazzili were not putting fans in the seats. Those players were popular to a Mets fandom that had some souring on the "worst team that money could buy" Steinbrenner saw an opportunity to swing some borderline fans, and added some old fan favorites. Smart marketing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Smizzy-Ity was well written about and known how Steinbrenner was jealous over the Mets of the 80's. And YES, the Mets of today are in similar straits looking at the Yankees. I am not stupid to realize that. But deny what happened, and why it happened, is plain old naivete'. Steinbrenner saw an opportunity and grasped it,. It put fannies in teh seats. SMART SMART SMART Why are you under the impression it was to fill seats? Isn't it possible he seen guys who succeded and WON in NY and thought they might be a good fit now that they were on other teams? I know 1 thing for sure...Steinbreenner in in it to win it...not to fill seats. That is why he puts more of his revenue back into the team than any other owner in MLB does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 St. Louis, got any other questions I'll be happy to answer em for ya;) haha,,yup,,u r 1/2 right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Those players were popular to a Mets fandom that had some souring on the "worst team that money could buy" Steinbrenner saw an opportunity to swing some borderline fans, and added some old fan favorites. Smart marketing Mazzili shouldnt even be mentioned here though, he played for the Yanks in 82. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Mazzili shouldnt even be mentioned here though, he played for the Yanks in 82. His greatest moment came as pinch hitter for the Mets in the Series and playoffs. There was recognition factor there for NY fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Why are you under the impression it was to fill seats? Isn't it possible he seen guys who succeded and WON in NY and thought they might be a good fit now that they were on other teams? I know 1 thing for sure...Steinbreenner in in it to win it...not to fill seats. That is why he puts more of his revenue back into the team than any other owner in MLB does. Rafael Santana? Agree Steinbrenner is in it to win, but, failing that, you want to get fannies in teh seats. If you can steal them from a fandom that is souring, all teh better. Double win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 MLB Attendence records for 1986 Ny Mets- 2,767,601 Ny Yankees -2,268,030 (90 win season) Top 5 Salaries for 1986 Mets George Foster $ 2,800,000 Gary Carter $ 2,160,714 Keith Hernandez $ 1,650,000 Dwight Gooden $ 1,320,000 Darryl Strawberry $ 945,000 Yanks Dave Winfield $ 1,886,714 Rickey Henderson $ 1,570,000 Don Mattingly $ 1,375,000 Willie Randolph $ 1,060,000 Ken Griffey $ 1,050,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 MLB Attendence records for 1986 Ny Mets- 2,767,601 Ny Yankees -2,268,030 (90 win season) Top 5 Salaries for 1986 Mets George Foster $ 2,800,000 Gary Carter $ 2,160,714 Keith Hernandez $ 1,650,000 Dwight Gooden $ 1,320,000 Darryl Strawberry $ 945,000 Yanks Dave Winfield $ 1,886,714 Rickey Henderson $ 1,570,000 Don Mattingly $ 1,375,000 Willie Randolph $ 1,060,000 Ken Griffey $ 1,050,000 Correct me if I am wrong-In 1986 wasn't the AL counting attendance as "tickets sold" rather than fans at the game, while the NL was still counting fans at the game only? I remember something like that. What was attendace comparisons 87-90? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Correct me if I am wrong-In 1986 wasn't the AL counting attendance as "tickets sold" rather than fans at the game, while the NL was still counting fans at the game only? I remember something like that. What was attendace comparisons 87-90? The differnce in 1987 was 500,000 seats. Notice who has the bigger payroll and higher paid players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 The differnce in 1987 was 500,000 seats. Notice who has the bigger payroll and higher paid players. I am trying to understand your point, and how this relates to GS taking Met players in the early 90's to glom off the Mets bandwagoin, with some popular Met players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 I am trying to understand your point, and how this relates to GS taking Met players in the early 90's to glom off the Mets bandwagoin, with some popular Met players You said "If you can steal them from a fandom that is souring" I showed you there was a very minimal differnce in attendence. The Yankees had 5 all stars and didn't need scrubs from the Mets to boost attnedence. How does 1 glom of a lucky team? You have 1 WS title in 2 decades,2 in 4...We didn't need to glom off the Mets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 You said "If you can steal them from a fandom that is souring" I showed you there was a very minimal differnce in attendence. The Yankees had 5 all stars and didn't need scrubs from the Mets to boost attnedence. How does 1 glom of a lucky team? You have 1 WS title in 2 decades,2 in 4...We didn't need to glom off the Mets. I should have known that a fandom that thinks somehow a song is "owned" by a player would have difficulty seeing other facts presented. Proceed with teh delusion. I won't wake you guys up. Smizz-Your counterpoints fail to even adress what I raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 I should have known that a fandom that thinks somehow a song is "owned" by a player would have difficulty seeing other facts presented. Proceed with teh delusion. I won't wake you guys up. Smizz-Your counterpoints fail to even adress what I raised. I don't think Mo owns anything. What is funny is how the Mets and Mets fans claim Wagner owns it because his daddy was a roadie .What did you raise? The Yankees glommed off the Mets? That is comical. The Yankees were here 50 yrs before the Mets existed. winning WS titles. The entire idea of the NY Mets was glommed of the success of the NY Yankees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 I don't think Mo owns anything. What is funny is how the Mets and Mets fans claim Wagner owns it because his daddy was a roadie .What did you raise? The Yankees glommed off the Mets? That is comical. The Yankees were here 50 yrs before the Mets existed. winning WS titles. The entire idea of the NY Mets was glommed of the success of the NY Yankees. Smizz-Sorry to break the news to you, but the Mets of teh 80's owned NY. Again, sorry to have to break that to you. GS saw an opportunity to gain back (and he did) the NY fan base, and used Met matinee players to partly help him in that. Smart move and he was not afraid to do it. Why you want to duck this fact, is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Smizz-Sorry to break the news to you, but the Mets of teh 80's owned NY. Again, sorry to have to break that to you. GS saw an opportunity to gain back (and he did) the NY fan base, and used Met matinee players to partly help him in that. Smart move and he was not afraid to do it. Why you want to duck this fact, is beyond me. How many WS titles did the NY Yankees have before the Ny Mets existed? The answer to that question should help you delusional mets fans realize the truth. The Mets haven't done anything in 20 years...besides lose to the NY Yankees in the World series in 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 How many WS titles did the NY Yankees have before the Ny Mets existed? The answer to that question should help you delusional mets fans realize the truth. The Mets haven't done anything in 20 years...besides lose to the NY Yankees in the World series in 2000. Smizz-If you want to argue which franchise has better success-I realize I can't win. But, every baseball discussion cant be about "You guys suck, we win all the time". I will talk baseball-But if you just want to throw that out as the ultimate to every dialogue, well that does not speak well. Try and stay on topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Correct me if I am wrong-In 1986 wasn't the AL counting attendance as "tickets sold" rather than fans at the game, while the NL was still counting fans at the game only? I remember something like that. What was attendace comparisons 87-90? Scott...you are correct. That was strange but it used to come up in my teenage Mets\Yankees fights all the time. The NL #'s were obviously undervalued as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 I will say this...as a Yankee fan....what the Mets built in the mid 80's was incredible. They built it from within (Doc, Straw) and they added just the right outside talent (Carter etc). The fact that they only won it all in 1986 is a shame. I though their manager was a genius at the time. In hindsight history does not portray such a great picture for him. They should have had a few rings with that group, end of story. That '86 team though....just magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Smizz-If you want to argue which franchise has better success-I realize I can't win. But, every baseball discussion cant be about "You guys suck, we win all the time". I will talk baseball-But if you just want to throw that out as the ultimate to every dialogue, well that does not speak well. Try and stay on topic SD...Im not saying we are awesome ,you suck. Im simply telling you the NY Yankees didn't need to glom off anybody to be successful. In the mid 80's the Mets had a lot of home grown talent and that I respect. However to imply the Yankees were ass untill they signed some scrubs from the Mets WS team is silly to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 SD...Im not saying we are awesome ,you suck. Im simply telling you the NY Yankees didn't need to glom off anybody to be successful. In the mid 80's the Mets had a lot of home grown talent and that I respect. However to imply the Yankees were ass untill they signed some scrubs from the Mets WS team is silly to me. Then you fail to understand my point, as well as the era that was NY baseball at that time. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I will say this...as a Yankee fan....what the Mets built in the mid 80's was incredible. They built it from within (Doc, Straw) and they added just the right outside talent (Carter etc). The fact that they only won it all in 1986 is a shame. I though their manager was a genius at the time. In hindsight history does not portray such a great picture for him. They should have had a few rings with that group, end of story. That '86 team though....just magic. I will also tell you that what the Yankees have done consistently, is to be marvelled at too. I don't care about money, in total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Then you fail to understand my point, as well as the era that was NY baseball at that time. Fair enough. I think your point is, the Yankees during the early 90's signed some ex Mets who were on the team in the 80's to generate more fans and to gain fans who were on the fence. And if that is, I completely disagree. Considering most of the guys you named played as little as 30 games for the Yankees. Bobby Ojeda and Rafael Santana weren't generating any profit for the Yanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I think your point is, the Yankees during the early 90's signed some ex Mets who were on the team in the 80's to generate more fans and to gain fans who were on the fence. And if that is, I completely disagree. Considering most of the guys you named played as little as 30 games for the Yankees. Bobby Ojeda and Rafael Santana weren't generating any profit for the Yanks. It doesn't matter how much they played for teh team, the fact that they were now Yankees allowed some fans to switch. Matt, out of curiosity, how old were you during this time and what do you remeber it as? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 It doesn't matter how much they played for teh team, the fact that they were now Yankees allowed some fans to switch. Matt, out of curiosity, how old were you during this time and what do you remeber it as? I'm 22. So assume that ends it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 It doesn't matter how much they played for teh team, the fact that they were now Yankees allowed some fans to switch. So you worried about a handfull of fans who switched teams to root for old mets? Hilarious. How much did Yankee attendence spike after they signed these Mets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 So you worried about a handfull of fans who switched teams to root for old mets? Hilarious. How much did Yankee attendence spike after they signed these Mets? Smizz-Neither you nor I can change history, or why it happened, or try to explain it away. All I can do is give you the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Smizz-Neither you nor I can change history, or why it happened, or try to explain it away. All I can do is give you the details. From a Mets fans perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 From a Mets fans perspective. Smizzy_I have been balanced and even given teh Yankee credit. I relaying a period dialogue, it was YOU who blurted out "The Yankees have won so much more......blah, blah blah" How that pertained to what was happening in teh early 90's is anyone's guess. Just must be knee jerk reaction for Yankee fans when confronted with something that confounds them. Thanks, I enjoyed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.