Wilson's Game Film

[65 Toss Power Trap]

I've been depressed since Rodgers went down. I highly doubted Zach would ever be an NFL QB, and thought the only chance he had was to sit behind Aaron for a couple/few years. So when he played Monday, my mental filter viewed everything he did negatively. 

I just watched "Zach Wilson EVERY THROW - Week 1 - New York Jets vs Buffalo Bills Highlights" on YouTube. I'm trying to self-help and take myself off suicide watch, so here are some takeaways. I promise I am trying to positively slant everything towards ZW (thank you Robert S) as much as I can: 

1. The pick was inexcusable. Middle of the field stare down. However, I assume Hackett is going to emphasize "stay away from the middle of the field" and scream at him about the stare downs. It's been well documented how Rodgers doesn't throw picks b/c he stays away from the middle of the field. Rodgers throws lots of screens, check down, quick passes to the edges, and then hits long go routes that aren't interception prone. There's no secret to it. Zach, stay away from the middle, period. The stare down speaks to Zach not being able to mentally handle the game. He did not seem to continue that crap all game long.

2. He did not compound issues after the pick.

3. He had one inexcusable dirt ball. Glad it wasn't more.

4. I assume at all times he is so scared and in the back of his head at all times, but if I'm being honest after looking at the film, he looked more comfortable. 

5. The easy throws and check downs looked okay.

6. The big run backwards avoided a sack, and I hate the running backwards even worse than Peyton.

7. The 3rd down throw to GW to set up the touchdown was great. 

8. Multiple good throws on time.

9. Touchdown to GW was all GW. Not where the ball should have been, but he gave his playmaker a chance. 

10. The offense was set for Aaron. Game prep was with Aaron in mind. Dallas D is legit, but all prep this week revolves around Zach. Nathaniel has had critics, but I think it's night and day between him and MLF in terms of now having more competence with the OC.

11. The o line was not great.

All this is to say, I might actually watch the game Sunday. 

[Joe W. Namath]

Zach was terrible.  We not need to break down any film.

Hopefully, he plays better this week.

[Larz]

Agree with this.  The frustration with him is always the mental stuff.  
 

A big part of the Hack / Rodgers offense is play action and go routes. It’s an outside throw with less interception risk. I’d like to see him give Lazard and Wilson some chances on these. Airman begged for it Monday night lol. 
 

 

[65 Toss Power Trap]

5 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Zach was terrible.  We not need to break down any film.

Hopefully, he plays better this week.

???

Watch the film. I wouldn't have posted this thread if I had seen the "For Optimists" thread post by Pac. That thread covers these same ideas better. Go look at that thread and watch the video of Daniel Jermiah's breakdown. Zach was not "terrible" by any honest assessment. 

Trust me, I want a smoking gun that tells me Zach experiment is finished forever. 

[varjet]

2 minutes ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

???

Watch the film. I wouldn't have posted this thread if I had seen the "For Optimists" thread post by Pac. That thread covers these same ideas better. Go look at that thread and watch the video of Daniel Jermiah's breakdown. Zach was not "terrible" by any honest assessment. 

Zach was not terrible last week.  He stepped in as a backup and won the game.  He was not the 2nd pick in the draft.

I don't think Zach can be Mark Sanchez with this team, but if he can keep at what he did, he will make himself alot of money, and maybe get the Jets a Wild Card running behind Hall and Cook.

The Jets had a winning record last year.  They lost Hall and AVT and everything collapsed.  There was no Rodgers.  Now there is Hall and Izzy.  I think they may repeat the plan.  

[peekskill68]

I'm hopeful Hackett vs. Lafleur is going to make a huge difference to Zach's "between the ears" make up. Night and day people skills...

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

5 minutes ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

I've been depressed since Rodgers went down. I highly doubted Zach would ever be an NFL QB, and thought the only chance he had was to sit behind Aaron for a couple/few years. So when he played Monday, my mental filter viewed everything he did negatively. 

I just watched "Zach Wilson EVERY THROW - Week 1 - New York Jets vs Buffalo Bills Highlights" on YouTube. I'm trying to self-help and take myself off suicide watch, so here are some takeaways. I promise I am trying to positively slant everything towards ZW (thank you Robert S) as much as I can: 

1. The pick was inexcusable. Middle of the field stare down. However, I assume Hackett is going to emphasize "stay away from the middle of the field" and scream at him about the stare downs. It's been well documented how Rodgers doesn't throw picks b/c he stays away from the middle of the field. Rodgers throws lots of screens, check down, quick passes to the edges, and then hits long go routes that aren't interception prone. There's no secret to it. Zach, stay away from the middle, period. The stare down speaks to Zach not being able to mentally handle the game. He did not seem to continue that crap all game long.

2. He did not compound issues after the pick.

3. He had one inexcusable dirt ball. Glad it wasn't more.

4. I assume at all times he is so scared and in the back of his head at all times, but if I'm being honest after looking at the film, he looked more comfortable. 

5. The easy throws and check downs looked okay.

6. The big run backwards avoided a sack, and I hate the running backwards even worse than Peyton.

7. The 3rd down throw to GW to set up the touchdown was great. 

8. Multiple good throws on time.

9. Touchdown to GW was all GW. Not where the ball should have been, but he gave his playmaker a chance. 

10. The offense was set for Aaron. Game prep was with Aaron in mind. Dallas D is legit, but all prep this week revolves around Zach. Nathaniel has had critics, but I think it's night and day between him and MLF in terms of now having more competence with the OC.

11. The o line was not great.

All this is to say, I might actually watch the game Sunday. 

Progress, even after being thrown into the fire against a good D.

Sunday on the road against the top pressure D in the NFL last year will be the ultimate test.

If he passes this test, then we might all be able to breath easy.

Do I expect it?  No but I’ll be rooting for it.

[Sonny Werblin]

23 minutes ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

I've been depressed since Rodgers went down. I highly doubted Zach would ever be an NFL QB, and thought the only chance he had was to sit behind Aaron for a couple/few years. So when he played Monday, my mental filter viewed everything he did negatively. 

I just watched "Zach Wilson EVERY THROW - Week 1 - New York Jets vs Buffalo Bills Highlights" on YouTube. I'm trying to self-help and take myself off suicide watch, so here are some takeaways. I promise I am trying to positively slant everything towards ZW (thank you Robert S) as much as I can: 

1. The pick was inexcusable. Middle of the field stare down. However, I assume Hackett is going to emphasize "stay away from the middle of the field" and scream at him about the stare downs. It's been well documented how Rodgers doesn't throw picks b/c he stays away from the middle of the field. Rodgers throws lots of screens, check down, quick passes to the edges, and then hits long go routes that aren't interception prone. There's no secret to it. Zach, stay away from the middle, period. The stare down speaks to Zach not being able to mentally handle the game. He did not seem to continue that crap all game long.

2. He did not compound issues after the pick.

3. He had one inexcusable dirt ball. Glad it wasn't more.

4. I assume at all times he is so scared and in the back of his head at all times, but if I'm being honest after looking at the film, he looked more comfortable. 

5. The easy throws and check downs looked okay.

6. The big run backwards avoided a sack, and I hate the running backwards even worse than Peyton.

7. The 3rd down throw to GW to set up the touchdown was great. 

8. Multiple good throws on time.

9. Touchdown to GW was all GW. Not where the ball should have been, but he gave his playmaker a chance. 

10. The offense was set for Aaron. Game prep was with Aaron in mind. Dallas D is legit, but all prep this week revolves around Zach. Nathaniel has had critics, but I think it's night and day between him and MLF in terms of now having more competence with the OC.

11. The o line was not great.

All this is to say, I might actually watch the game Sunday. 

When I watched his throws yesterday, I was struck that when I was removed from the emotion of the game, he seemed to have far less bad plays. If he played like that last year, he probably never would have lost the starting job. Don't get me wrong, he was not great or even very good by any stretch of the imagination. But it was a marked improvement over where he was last season when benched.

What I liked most was all of the interactions on the sideline. Last season Wilson would plop himself down on the bench next to White or Flacco and stare blankly into a tablet. Monday night his teammates spoke with him about what was happening on the field and were encouraging to him and, more importantly, Hackett was right there with Zach explaining what was wrong on the bad plays and how to fix things. 

I do not want to blame MiLF for everything that went wrong on O last season, but man on man I can feel the dynamic is different with Hackett.  Rodgers also has a hand in that obviously, but we all know from Rodgers that Hackett is a great guy who brings a lot of joy to his job. Positive energy was something that was lacking under the route tree memorization obsessed MiLF.

[65 Toss Power Trap]

12 minutes ago, Larz said:

Agree with this.  The frustration with him is always the mental stuff.  
 

This is huge. We'll see if he can overcome. 

[65 Toss Power Trap]

4 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

I'm hopeful Hackett vs. Lafleur is going to make a huge difference to Zach's "between the ears" make up. Night and day people skills...

Yep. And he has AR on the sidelines to help him think through stuff. 

[65 Toss Power Trap]

3 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Progress, even after being thrown into the fire against a good D.

Sunday on the road against the top pressure D in the NFL last year will be the ultimate test.

If he passes this test, then we might all be able to breath easy.

Do I expect it?  No but I’ll be rooting for it.

I feel the same way. At least the o line has had a week together. Hopefully they gel a bit more and give him a little time. However, Dallas rush looked unstoppable against the Giants. 

[PorP]

13 minutes ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

???

Watch the film. I wouldn't have posted this thread if I had seen the "For Optimists" thread post by Pac. That thread covers these same ideas better. Go look at that thread and watch the video of Daniel Jermiah's breakdown. Zach was not "terrible" by any honest assessment. 

Trust me, I want a smoking gun that tells me Zach experiment is finished forever. 

Still a good post man! 

[Matt39]

19 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Zach was terrible.  We not need to break down any film.

Hopefully, he plays better this week.

At least we’re allowed to talk about him now. 

[jgb]

21 minutes ago, Larz said:

Agree with this.  The frustration with him is always the mental stuff.  

That’s why 99% of the first round QB busts fail. Except for the crazy outliers like Tebow, all those guys have the physical tools.

[The Crusher]

27 minutes ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

I've been depressed since Rodgers went down. I highly doubted Zach would ever be an NFL QB, and thought the only chance he had was to sit behind Aaron for a couple/few years. So when he played Monday, my mental filter viewed everything he did negatively. 

I just watched "Zach Wilson EVERY THROW - Week 1 - New York Jets vs Buffalo Bills Highlights" on YouTube. I'm trying to self-help and take myself off suicide watch, so here are some takeaways. I promise I am trying to positively slant everything towards ZW (thank you Robert S) as much as I can: 

1. The pick was inexcusable. Middle of the field stare down. However, I assume Hackett is going to emphasize "stay away from the middle of the field" and scream at him about the stare downs. It's been well documented how Rodgers doesn't throw picks b/c he stays away from the middle of the field. Rodgers throws lots of screens, check down, quick passes to the edges, and then hits long go routes that aren't interception prone. There's no secret to it. Zach, stay away from the middle, period. The stare down speaks to Zach not being able to mentally handle the game. He did not seem to continue that crap all game long.

2. He did not compound issues after the pick.

3. He had one inexcusable dirt ball. Glad it wasn't more.

4. I assume at all times he is so scared and in the back of his head at all times, but if I'm being honest after looking at the film, he looked more comfortable. 

5. The easy throws and check downs looked okay.

6. The big run backwards avoided a sack, and I hate the running backwards even worse than Peyton.

7. The 3rd down throw to GW to set up the touchdown was great. 

8. Multiple good throws on time.

9. Touchdown to GW was all GW. Not where the ball should have been, but he gave his playmaker a chance. 

10. The offense was set for Aaron. Game prep was with Aaron in mind. Dallas D is legit, but all prep this week revolves around Zach. Nathaniel has had critics, but I think it's night and day between him and MLF in terms of now having more competence with the OC.

11. The o line was not great.

All this is to say, I might actually watch the game Sunday. 

Solid post. Fair

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

At least we’re allowed to talk about him now. 

Reminds me of the game red light/green light as a kid. When he’s benched, “RED LIGHT!” As soon as he gets on the field, “GREEN LIGHT!”

[bla bla bla]

Every Throw from Zach Wilson

[65 Toss Power Trap]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

That’s why 99% of the first round QB busts fail. Except for the crazy outliers like Tebow, all those guys have the physical tools.

I just not convinced that ZW is going to magically overcome the mental stuff. Hope I'm wrong. 

[jgb]

21 hours ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

I just not convinced that ZW is going to magically overcome the mental stuff. Hope I'm wrong. 

Nor should you. The data shows that it is unlikely. If it was that simple first round QBs would never bust except for crimes, drug abuse, or career-ending injury.

People love to say “he has all the talent, just needs to fix the mental stuff,” but that's exactly what separates the busts from the successes.

[talonmm]

17 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

I'm hopeful Hackett vs. Lafleur is going to make a huge difference to Zach's "between the ears" make up. Night and day people skills...

I really hope Rodgers becomes a "coach" this season.  He seemed to help not only Zack but other players on both sides of the ball, and even Becton.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, talonmm said:

I really hope Rodgers becomes a "coach" this season.  He seemed to help not only Zack but other players on both sides of the ball, and even Becton.

The highest-paid player and highest-paid coach in Jets history, both in the same year. Another record for Rodgers’ trophy case.

[Sonny Werblin]

4 minutes ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

I just not convinced that ZW is going to magically overcome the mental stuff. Hope I'm wrong. 

The question is was the mental stuff an inability of Wilson to pick it up or was it because he had problems with the teaching methods? I feel like with Hackett and Rodgers there is more of a hands on show you on the field dynamic to bringing Zach along whereas with MiLF it was a game film and tell Zach "do this" while sitting in the QB room. I could be wrong because I obviously was not there, but I really got the vibe that rote memorization and film is how MiLF coached players. 

[TheClashFan]

IIRC, his "best" play was a completion on a 3rd down, to Lazard maybe, when he was under a rush and falling down, yet got the ball out for the completion. It wasn't pretty, but it was a huge get.

Imagine how good Hackett will look if he can somehow unlock a decent starting QB in ZW.

 

[jgb]

Just now, Sonny Werblin said:

The question is was the mental stuff an inability of Wilson to pick it up or was it because he had problems with the teaching methods? I feel like with Hackett and Rodgers there is more of a hands on show you on the field dynamic to bringing Zach along whereas with MiLF it was a game film and tell Zach "do this" while sitting in the QB room. I could be wrong because I obviously was not there, but I really got the vibe that rote memorization and film is how MiLF coached players. 

It’s nearly always the QB. How do we know? So precious few turn it around in a new environment.

[Sonny Werblin]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

If it was that simple first round QBs would never bust except for crimes, drug abuse, or career-ending injury.

People love to say “he has all the talent, just needs to fix the mental stuff.” That’s exactly what separates the busts from the successes.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but coaching does come into the equation. They said Alex Smith didn't get the mental stuff for years and he had some pretty high profile O coaches. Then Jim Harbaugh comes along and it turns out Alex Smith is pretty good. Then Smith went and played for Reid in KC and was pretty good for him as well. So, was Alex Smith's early problems with the mental stuff on him, or his coaches -- or both? And why could he suddenly get it when he had Harbaugh and then Reid?

[65 Toss Power Trap]

1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

The question is was the mental stuff an inability of Wilson to pick it up or was it because he had problems with the teaching methods? I feel like with Hackett and Rodgers there is more of a hands on show you on the field dynamic to bringing Zach along whereas with MiLF it was a game film and tell Zach "do this" while sitting in the QB room. I could be wrong because I obviously was not there, but I really got the vibe that rote memorization and film is how MiLF coached players. 

Good thoughts. Zach will get a lot more hand holding specific explanations, along with straight-up-in-your-face-fix-this-now coaching, from AR and Hackett.

I wonder too if John Beck messed him up at all. Rodgers had that interview with Sanchez and Mangold, where Rodgers say that QB Coaches/teachers screw the position up all the time. They overcomplicate it and they teach bad techniques a ton. 

[Sonny Werblin]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

It’s nearly always the QB. How do we know? So precious few turn it around in a new environment.

Not many get a second chance. Geno Smith and Alex Smith are the only 2 that really come to mind. Perhaps your name has to be Smith?  

[Claymation]

5 minutes ago, TheClashFan said:

IIRC, his "best" play was a completion on a 3rd down, to Lazard maybe, when he was under a rush and falling down, yet got the ball out for the completion. It wasn't pretty, but it was a huge get.

Imagine how good Hackett will look if he can somehow unlock a decent starting QB in ZW.

 

He'll look good, but he will never get another HC job.

[Sonny Werblin]

2 minutes ago, Claymation said:

He'll look good, but he will never get another HC job.

After what he experienced in Denver, I'm not sure he'd want one.

[Jetkwondo]

Just found this of all his throws ,a little  jumpy at first but there are some different angles on plays that show more of what Zack was dealing with. The falling down throw after getting tripped by AVT that he makes to Lazard at the 2:37 mark is incredible.  And being able to pause and play his mad backwards scramble I can better understand what he had no time to avoid and then his ability to do what he had to in not getting sacked . 3 defenders getting free and suddenly in his face...

For those who hate Zack, with the person who made this is probably one,  you get to see all his mistakes repeated a few times as well as him drilled in slow motion. 

 

[Sonny Werblin]

8 minutes ago, jgb said:

It’s nearly always the QB. How do we know? So precious few turn it around in a new environment.

How many were coached by MiLF for their first two seasons in his first stint as an OC?

[More Cowbell]

44 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Zach was terrible.  We not need to break down any film.

Hopefully, he plays better this week.

I hate Zach and even I don't  think he was terrible. He definitely  hasn't  shaken some of the old bad habits but I thought he handled more than 70% of his snaps favorably.  

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

How many were coached by MiLF for their first two seasons in his first stint as an OC?

That’s the power of a large sample size. There have been many, many 1st round QB busts that represent the whole spectrum of situations they were in during the beginning of their careers. The turnaround percentage is really small. No one has shown an ability to predict in advance who these rare cases will be, meaning there is no evidence of a common causal element (like having a first-time OC, for instance).
 

[Maxman]

51 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Zach was terrible.  We not need to break down any film.

Hopefully, he plays better this week.

If Zach was terrible, what was Josh Allen?

[LSJF]

10 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but coaching does come into the equation. They said Alex Smith didn't get the mental stuff for years and he had some pretty high profile O coaches. Then Jim Harbaugh comes along and it turns out Alex Smith is pretty good. Then Smith went and played for Reid in KC and was pretty good for him as well. So, was Alex Smith's early problems with the mental stuff on him, or his coaches -- or both? And why could he suddenly get it when he had Harbaugh and then Reid?

post more please, you actually give me hope on this board