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What we should do vs the Pats (but undoubtably won't)


Beerfish

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Eh.  Some solid points, but also plenty of reasons this is just fan biased rhetoric. 

Tippman might make less sense with Zach at QB.  At least Rodgers was good at calling out the assignments.  My understanding is that Zach leaves more of it to the O line.  Specifically McGovern and that is probably going to be Tippman's greatest drawback. 

Tomlinson has not been great, but I think many had him as our best O lineman last week.  You want to bench him in spite of his contract, but keep the others based on last year?  AVT was not good.  Becton and Brown were awful. 

It's not 1956.  You want to shrink the field?  Play TE and FB?  They did a ton of that and it absolutely did not work.  I don't even think it is a change.  If anything, I'd be playing Hardman and Gipson more.  They need more guys to take short simple throws and make something more.  They are not getting that from Jeremy Ruckert, no matter what kind of hard on he gives some of you.

Same thing with roll outs.  cutting the field in half will only make it harder for a kid that won't pull the trigger unless he sees 10 yards of green around his target.  People always suggest this as it can result in a couple of easy throws a game.  A steady diet of it?  Against that little troll's D?  He will eat it up.  

I would suggest we do more of what we did in the 2 minute drill.  I would still use a heavy dose of run and play action, but I would want Zach to take off for positive yards every chance he gets.  Get your five and dive.  If he takes some shots, tough sh*t.  It's football and it's time to take the tutu off and get dirty.  He has already proved he can't do it pretty.  If he gets hurt, move on to Boyle and sign the next sucker.

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22 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

1) Joe Tippman should be in at center.  The Jets brain trust evaluated this guy as the best center in the draft.  He has had his break in time.  If the starting center was playing great then fine wait, but McGovern stinks.  Last point here which plays into point 2.  He should be in at center not Left guard.

2) Thomlinson, the bench is over there, he was bad last year and has picked right up from there.  He is really bad and no reason, contract or not he should be playing.  Whether his benching is a short term wake up all or long term depends on how his replacement does.  Schwizter or McGovern moves to Left guard.

3) We should not have even one series of a 3 or 4 man WR package, none.  We have two Wrs, the brilliant Garrett Wilson and the passable Lazard, we have some really green rookies and two absolute awful jags in Hardman and Cobb who are just a waste out there.   We should be in two tight end or tight end and Fullback, all ....game..... long.   It will help the run game, pass protection and Bawden or the 2nd tight end will bring more each play than our 3 and 4 jags at wr.

4) Every pass play should be a roll out, every one.  (This works espically good off of play action to the other side) The QB is faulty and does not process the game in the straight drop back situation he is also a sitting duck for the inside pass rush.   Do what they tend to do in college is the QB has some ability but has trouble processing.  Cut the field in half.  Each play the QB rolling out should have 4 choices.  Pass to RB moving out to his side, TE pass finding a hole in the zone, WR if you have that good match up or RUN.  The pats have historically had trouble with a running QB, if the run is there take it.  By all means slide or go out of bounds but if they give you the run you take it every time.  Nothing takes defenses out of their game plan than a QB making them pay by running it.

5) The pats have a really good defense and are superbly coached but to me they have one 'threat' player that being Judon.  For once pay special attention to the other teams best player.

6) Activate Will McDonald.  The bad looks of sitting out a high pick aside he is fast and bendy and is unique to this team, none of the rest of the guys are like him.  Be cretive, move Clemons inside as we were going to and dump one of the DTs onto the inactive list or better yet sit Lawson.

7) Poach the short passing game all day long.  They have no scary WRs man up on the outside and be all over those mac jones short passes, no free short pass game!

Whoever has Salehs email please forward this to him asap! 🤓

 

This is amazing except for a couple notes.

1. Believe it or not Zach is better from the pocket this year when given time.  Yes he can throw on the run when he needs to ..but most of his Ints come in that situation.

2. Run Right.  Run Right.  Run Right.  Run Right.  Run Right.  Run Right.  Run Right.  Run Right.  Run Right.  Run Right.  

 

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25 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

1) Joe Tippman should be in at center.  The Jets brain trust evaluated this guy as the best center in the draft.  He has had his break in time.  If the starting center was playing great then fine wait, but McGovern stinks.  Last point here which plays into point 2.  He should be in at center not Left guard.

2) Thomlinson, the bench is over there, he was bad last year and has picked right up from there.  He is really bad and no reason, contract or not he should be playing.  Whether his benching is a short term wake up all or long term depends on how his replacement does.  Schwizter or McGovern moves to Left guard.

3) We should not have even one series of a 3 or 4 man WR package, none.  We have two Wrs, the brilliant Garrett Wilson and the passable Lazard, we have some really green rookies and two absolute awful jags in Hardman and Cobb who are just a waste out there.   We should be in two tight end or tight end and Fullback, all ....game..... long.   It will help the run game, pass protection and Bawden or the 2nd tight end will bring more each play than our 3 and 4 jags at wr.

4) Every pass play should be a roll out, every one.  (This works espically good off of play action to the other side) The QB is faulty and does not process the game in the straight drop back situation he is also a sitting duck for the inside pass rush.   Do what they tend to do in college is the QB has some ability but has trouble processing.  Cut the field in half.  Each play the QB rolling out should have 4 choices.  Pass to RB moving out to his side, TE pass finding a hole in the zone, WR if you have that good match up or RUN.  The pats have historically had trouble with a running QB, if the run is there take it.  By all means slide or go out of bounds but if they give you the run you take it every time.  Nothing takes defenses out of their game plan than a QB making them pay by running it.

5) The pats have a really good defense and are superbly coached but to me they have one 'threat' player that being Judon.  For once pay special attention to the other teams best player.

6) Activate Will McDonald.  The bad looks of sitting out a high pick aside he is fast and bendy and is unique to this team, none of the rest of the guys are like him.  Be cretive, move Clemons inside as we were going to and dump one of the DTs onto the inactive list or better yet sit Lawson.

7) Poach the short passing game all day long.  They have no scary WRs man up on the outside and be all over those mac jones short passes, no free short pass game!

Whoever has Salehs email please forward this to him asap! 🤓

 

Agree with all of this except rolling out every pass play. I can see doing it more but every play a bit much 🤣

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Joe Tippman shouldn't be at center.   If anything you see if he can manage the LG spot.  Probably can't or he would have been in the lineup.  

Why Will isn't playing is a head scratcher.  

Letting Zach play up tempo to stop him from thinking is a good idea.  If we do that and we 3 and out a lot it puts even more pressure on the D.  

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One thing is for sure with this CS is that they don't play their best players...

You saw what they did it GW week 1 last season, they keep playing ZW, Uzomah split wide or even blocking, Ruckert on the bench, WMD healthy scratch, Tippman 3rd string reps for most of TC, 0 accountability with how dogsh1t Tomlinson has been and the list goes on...

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17 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Eh.  Some solid points, but also plenty of reasons this fan biased rhetoric. 

Tippman might make less sense with Zach at QB.  At least Rodgers was good at calling out the assignments.  My understanding is that Zach leaves more of it to the O line.  Specifically McGovern and that is probably going to be Tippman's greatest drawback. 

Probably?  WE drafted this guy high for a reason, oh also mcgovern sucks if he did not suck i would say let him stay where he is.

Tomlinson has not been great, but I think many had him as our best O lineman last week.  You want to bench him in spite of his contract, but keep the others based on last year?  AVT was not good.  Becton and Brown were awful. 

Tomlinson has been stink all last year and this year, becasue other oline also stink does not make him any better.

It's not 1956.  You want to shrink the field?  Play TE and FB?  They did a ton of that and it absolutely did not work.  I don't even think it is a change.  If anything, I'd be playing Hardman and Gipson more.  They need more guys to take short simple throws and make something more.  They are not getting that from Jeremy Ruckert, no matter what kind of hard on he gives some of you.

Yes, shrink the field, if you have a faulty QB incapable of using the whole field you shrink it.  We do not have aaron rodges at Qb we have zach wilson

Same thing with roll outs.  cutting the field in half will only make it harder for a kid that won't pull the trigger unless he sees 10 yards of green around his target.  People always suggest this as it can result in a couple of easy throws a game.  A steady diet of it?  Against that little troll's D?  He will eat it up.  

No what makes it hard is when you have a terrible oline and then are asked to go through 4 reads all over the field.  Rodgers had 4 snaps, on two of them he as scanning all over the field and got hurt as a result.  We do not have WR threats to make teams defend the whole field.

I would suggest we do more of what we did in the 2 minute drill.  I would still use a heavy dose of run and play action, but I would want Zach to take off for positive yards every chance he gets.  Get your five and dive.  If he takes some shots, tough sh*t.  It's football and it's time to take the tutu off and get dirty.  He has already proved he can't do it pretty.  If he gets hurt, move on to Boyle and sign the next sucker.

 

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7 minutes ago, Guilhermezmc said:

One thing is for sure with this CS is that they don't play their best players...

You saw what they did it GW week 1 last season, they keep playing ZW, Uzomah split wide or even blocking, Ruckert on the bench, WMD healthy scratch, Tippman 3rd string reps for most of TC, 0 accountability with how dogsh1t Tomlinson has been and the list goes on...

Afraid of pissing the veterans off.  Jet coaches historically do this, herm, Rex, bowled and gase.  It happens when there’s pressure to win and they know a bad season could end their time here.  I don’t expect to see tippman, Izzy or McDonald for a few more weeks, after a losing streak where they’re looking for any spark they can find. 

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47 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

1) Joe Tippman should be in at center.  The Jets brain trust evaluated this guy as the best center in the draft.  He has had his break in time.  If the starting center was playing great then fine wait, but McGovern stinks.  Last point here which plays into point 2.  He should be in at center not Left guard.

2) Thomlinson, the bench is over there, he was bad last year and has picked right up from there.  He is really bad and no reason, contract or not he should be playing.  Whether his benching is a short term wake up all or long term depends on how his replacement does.  Schwizter or McGovern moves to Left guard.

3) We should not have even one series of a 3 or 4 man WR package, none.  We have two Wrs, the brilliant Garrett Wilson and the passable Lazard, we have some really green rookies and two absolute awful jags in Hardman and Cobb who are just a waste out there.   We should be in two tight end or tight end and Fullback, all ....game..... long.   It will help the run game, pass protection and Bawden or the 2nd tight end will bring more each play than our 3 and 4 jags at wr.

4) Every pass play should be a roll out, every one.  (This works especially well off of play action to the other side) The QB is faulty and does not process the game in the straight drop back situation he is also a sitting duck for the inside pass rush.   Do what they tend to do in college if the QB has some ability but has trouble processing.  Cut the field in half.  Each play the QB rolling out should have 4 choices.  Pass to RB moving out to his side, TE pass finding a hole in the zone, WR if you have that good match up or RUN.  The pats have historically had trouble with a running QB, if the run is there take it.  By all means slide or go out of bounds but if they give you the run you take it every time.  Nothing takes defenses out of their game plan than a QB making them pay by running it.

5) The pats have a really good defense and are superbly coached but to me they have one 'threat' player that being Judon.  For once pay special attention to the other teams best player.

6) Activate Will McDonald.  The bad looks of sitting out a high pick aside he is fast and bendy and is unique to this team, none of the rest of the guys are like him.  Be creative, move Clemons inside as we were going to and dump one of the DTs onto the inactive list or better yet sit Lawson.

7) Poach the short passing game all day long.  They have no scary WRs man up on the outside and be all over those mac jones short passes, no free short pass game!

Whoever has Salehs email please forward this to him asap! 🤓

 

Beat them 44 - 0

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11 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Joe Tippman shouldn't be at center.   If anything you see if he can manage the LG spot.  Probably can't or he would have been in the lineup.  

Why Will isn't playing is a head scratcher.  

Letting Zach play up tempo to stop him from thinking is a good idea.  If we do that and we 3 and out a lot it puts even more pressure on the D.  

He was a college center, his best position is center, our current center is bad.   Let the vets adjust to left guard.  The 'line calls' have hardly been great these first two games.  Guys like creed humphrey, linderbaum the dude for the giants john michael schmitz were centers and played center from day one.

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Whatever is the logical strength of the team, we should do the opposite. 

Don’t run right. Don’t use breece hall. Don’t use ruckert so we can continuously miss blocks on Judon until Zach get inevitable hurt. Definitely don’t play Tippman cause it’s more interesting when McGovern is pushed back into Zach. Make sure never to stretch the field with Hardman who we paid to stretch the field.

This will make for a way more exciting and fun game then doing what every logical human expects us to do.

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Zach def. need to run a lot more.  Even up the middle.

The way Zach has been staying in the pocket and climbing it - there seems a lot of opportunity to just take off, pick up 6 and slide.  

As the OP noted, nothing breaks the back of a D more than QB that keeps taking off for big clips.  It's there for him, he just has to do it.

Climb the pocket, one hitch - if the guys not wide open - then take off.

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3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Eh.  Some solid points, but also plenty of reasons this is just fan biased rhetoric. 

Tippman might make less sense with Zach at QB.  At least Rodgers was good at calling out the assignments.  My understanding is that Zach leaves more of it to the O line.  Specifically McGovern and that is probably going to be Tippman's greatest drawback. 

Tomlinson has not been great, but I think many had him as our best O lineman last week.  You want to bench him in spite of his contract, but keep the others based on last year?  AVT was not good.  Becton and Brown were awful. 

It's not 1956.  You want to shrink the field?  Play TE and FB?  They did a ton of that and it absolutely did not work.  I don't even think it is a change.  If anything, I'd be playing Hardman and Gipson more.  They need more guys to take short simple throws and make something more.  They are not getting that from Jeremy Ruckert, no matter what kind of hard on he gives some of you.

Same thing with roll outs.  cutting the field in half will only make it harder for a kid that won't pull the trigger unless he sees 10 yards of green around his target.  People always suggest this as it can result in a couple of easy throws a game.  A steady diet of it?  Against that little troll's D?  He will eat it up.  

I would suggest we do more of what we did in the 2 minute drill.  I would still use a heavy dose of run and play action, but I would want Zach to take off for positive yards every chance he gets.  Get your five and dive.  If he takes some shots, tough sh*t.  It's football and it's time to take the tutu off and get dirty.  He has already proved he can't do it pretty.  If he gets hurt, move on to Boyle and sign the next sucker.

I assumed starting McGovern was a concession to Rodgers, who likes to call everything at the line. If they’re going to put Zach out there—who does very little at the line—it might be fine to start Tippman sooner than later. For whatever reason, McGovern is easily fooled by stunts and delayed blitzes, despite the fact that he’s a veteran center. I also suspect McGovern being bad is impacting Tomlinson. I don’t think Tippmann could be much worse, and he might provide a little more in the run game. 
 

Agreed on putting Zach in the two- and four-minute offense, but you’d probably kill both Becton and Brown by going uptempo.

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4 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

They need to dink and dunk with a quick passing game. With Hardman, Gibson and Izzy involved. Put speed in the game!! 

Play your good players for **** sake.

 

You can’t dink and dunk with nine guys in the box every play. This is the conundrum that we are in. Teams are daring us to throw the ball down the field, but the problem is we don’t have the coaching staff, scheme or QB to take advantage of it. So there will be nowhere to run, nowhere to screen or dink and dunk.

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5 minutes ago, LockeJET said:

You can’t dink and dunk with nine guys in the box every play. This is the conundrum that we are in. Teams are daring us to throw the ball down the field, but the problem is we don’t have the coaching staff, scheme or QB to take advantage of it. So there will be nowhere to run, nowhere to screen or dink and dunk.

Yup. Having Zach back there is roughly equivalent to starting a hamster at qb. He might run in the right direction, he might not, but he's unlikely to be successful throwing downfield. Hackett was fine when he was Rodgers' sounding board but I don't really have a lot of faith in him coaching up a hamster. It'll be ugly. 

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5 hours ago, Beerfish said:

1) Joe Tippman should be in at center.  The Jets brain trust evaluated this guy as the best center in the draft.  He has had his break in time.  If the starting center was playing great then fine wait, but McGovern stinks.  Last point here which plays into point 2.  He should be in at center not Left guard.

2) Thomlinson, the bench is over there, he was bad last year and has picked right up from there.  He is really bad and no reason, contract or not he should be playing.  Whether his benching is a short term wake up all or long term depends on how his replacement does.  Schwizter or McGovern moves to Left guard.

3) We should not have even one series of a 3 or 4 man WR package, none.  We have two Wrs, the brilliant Garrett Wilson and the passable Lazard, we have some really green rookies and two absolute awful jags in Hardman and Cobb who are just a waste out there.   We should be in two tight end or tight end and Fullback, all ....game..... long.   It will help the run game, pass protection and Bawden or the 2nd tight end will bring more each play than our 3 and 4 jags at wr.

4) Every pass play should be a roll out, every one.  (This works especially well off of play action to the other side) The QB is faulty and does not process the game in the straight drop back situation he is also a sitting duck for the inside pass rush.   Do what they tend to do in college if the QB has some ability but has trouble processing.  Cut the field in half.  Each play the QB rolling out should have 4 choices.  Pass to RB moving out to his side, TE pass finding a hole in the zone, WR if you have that good match up or RUN.  The pats have historically had trouble with a running QB, if the run is there take it.  By all means slide or go out of bounds but if they give you the run you take it every time.  Nothing takes defenses out of their game plan than a QB making them pay by running it.

5) The pats have a really good defense and are superbly coached but to me they have one 'threat' player that being Judon.  For once pay special attention to the other teams best player.

6) Activate Will McDonald.  The bad looks of sitting out a high pick aside he is fast and bendy and is unique to this team, none of the rest of the guys are like him.  Be creative, move Clemons inside as we were going to and dump one of the DTs onto the inactive list or better yet sit Lawson.

7) Poach the short passing game all day long.  They have no scary WRs man up on the outside and be all over those mac jones short passes, no free short pass game!

Whoever has Salehs email please forward this to him asap! 🤓

 

Hmmm... Excuse me sir, I think you forgot about Brown. No plan is sensible unless he is dealt with.

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19 hours ago, Beerfish said:

1) Joe Tippman should be in at center.  The Jets brain trust evaluated this guy as the best center in the draft.  He has had his break in time.  If the starting center was playing great then fine wait, but McGovern stinks.  Last point here which plays into point 2.  He should be in at center not Left guard.

2) Thomlinson, the bench is over there, he was bad last year and has picked right up from there.  He is really bad and no reason, contract or not he should be playing.  Whether his benching is a short term wake up all or long term depends on how his replacement does.  Schwizter or McGovern moves to Left guard.

3) We should not have even one series of a 3 or 4 man WR package, none.  We have two Wrs, the brilliant Garrett Wilson and the passable Lazard, we have some really green rookies and two absolute awful jags in Hardman and Cobb who are just a waste out there.   We should be in two tight end or tight end and Fullback, all ....game..... long.   It will help the run game, pass protection and Bawden or the 2nd tight end will bring more each play than our 3 and 4 jags at wr.

4) Every pass play should be a roll out, every one.  (This works especially well off of play action to the other side) The QB is faulty and does not process the game in the straight drop back situation he is also a sitting duck for the inside pass rush.   Do what they tend to do in college if the QB has some ability but has trouble processing.  Cut the field in half.  Each play the QB rolling out should have 4 choices.  Pass to RB moving out to his side, TE pass finding a hole in the zone, WR if you have that good match up or RUN.  The pats have historically had trouble with a running QB, if the run is there take it.  By all means slide or go out of bounds but if they give you the run you take it every time.  Nothing takes defenses out of their game plan than a QB making them pay by running it.

5) The pats have a really good defense and are superbly coached but to me they have one 'threat' player that being Judon.  For once pay special attention to the other teams best player.

6) Activate Will McDonald.  The bad looks of sitting out a high pick aside he is fast and bendy and is unique to this team, none of the rest of the guys are like him.  Be creative, move Clemons inside as we were going to and dump one of the DTs onto the inactive list or better yet sit Lawson.

7) Poach the short passing game all day long.  They have no scary WRs man up on the outside and be all over those mac jones short passes, no free short pass game!

Whoever has Salehs email please forward this to him asap! 🤓

 

It would appear your message was delivered, sir 🫡

Not even a consideration? I can understand him saying no but to say it's not even a consideration is weird.

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3.  You might want to reconsider.  The Patriots have not shutdown anyone.  Outside of Tyreek, AJ, Devonte, and Jaylen all were effective.  Maybe not their traditional YPC, but effective.  Plus, the Patriots' hemorrhaged CBs last game.  I think one Jones is definitely out this weekend.  Plus, Mike McDaniels schemed some great plays that got his 3rd on down wide open.  Is Hackett as good?  Probably not, but the Patriots might be thin at CB. 

4.  I would go with the latter of pounding the ball.  More so the 49ers, but the Patriots have been eaten up on runs to the outside.   The Patriots are a little faster, but not that much.

 

To quote Bill Par$ells, "your record is what you say you are".  The Patriots are the epitome of an 8-8 team.  "Could have won this game if not for this penalty or turnover".  

You want to kill the ripe pig, get in front early.  The Eagles led 16-0.  The Phins were up 17-3.  If the Patriots get behind, you might be able to kill them once and for all.

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I'm pretty confident McDonald will be back in there.  Unless there is something going on behind the scenes, I just don't see him not dressing.  Especially after not being able to get to the QB against Dallas.

 

I doubt they bench anyone on the OL just yet, but if I had to pick one it would be Brown over Tomlinson at this point.  Brown was just beyond bad.  Tomlinson was good in comparison.  Slide Becton over to LT and either start Mitchell at RT, or bump AVT out to the right and play Schweitzer.  Also agreed on Tippmann.  It's time.  No matter what, if there aren't changes this week on the OL, this is a "last chance to get it right" type game for a few of these guys.  But yeah, I'd be 100% in favor of seeing a Becton-Tomlinson-Tippmann-AVT-Mitchell OL to start this Sunday.  

 

I'll also be surprised if we don't see a lot of 2-TE sets.  Ruckert needs to be on the field much more than he was last week.  Let's see some heavy Breece usage, even if we trail early.  

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