Declining Pass Rush?

[Barry McCockinner]

 

[Jetsfan80]

Easier to rush the passer with Mike White moving the rock on the other side of the ball and giving the team a few leads.  

[Bronx]

The Rodgers era has begun.

[FactsOnly]

Free McDonald!

[jamesr]

3 games ...

[ScarletKnight89]

Harder to do when the offense can not get 1st downs.

I agree that guys like Jermaine Johnson and Carl Lawson need to do a better job on the edge but the Jets defense is constantly on it's heels. They've barely had a lead this year.

[slimjasi]

Sure, but consider that the Jets have had double digit deficits in the first half of all three games. The only lead the Jets have had so far this year is the brief 3 point lead they had late in the 4th quarter against the Bills. 

They aren't a dominant defense, but they are also being hampered by the worst QB and offense in football. 

 

[HighPitch]

16 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Easier to rush the passer with Mike White moving the rock on the other side of the ball and giving the team a few leads.  

eh excuses......its not like they look any better at the start of the game when everyone is not tired. pas rush sucks!

[Barry McCockinner]

3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Sure, but consider that the Jets have had double digit deficits in the first half of all three games. The only lead the Jets have had so far this year is the brief 3 point lead they had late in the 4th quarter against the Bills. 

They aren't a dominant defense, but they are also being hampered by the worst QB and offense in football. 

 

I do think more context needs to be put around numbers. What you described can explain sacks and hits, but not rate. I wonder how many 3rd and long situations we're in compared to other teams as a percentage of plays.

[Beerfish]

It's the QBs fault that the all universe D sucks, can't get off the field, cant stop the run, can;t rush the passer and can;t create turnovers.

[Smashmouth]

Hate to remind you guys but we didn't get first downs last year either unless of course Mike White Played

[Mike135]

Weren't most saying our opening 6 games were the toughest (or close to it)?

I wouldn't overreact too much about anything (stats, QB, wins/losses) until after the bye.

[Claymation]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

It's the QBs fault that the all universe D sucks, can't get off the field, cant stop the run, can;t rush the passer and can;t create turnovers.

The Jets' or the other team's QB?

[Smashmouth]

Also Jermaine Johnson is not the pass rusher they think he is or want him to be. He 's a LB playing out of position. Every single sack he gets is Mop up. Is their video of him generating one sack within 2-3 seconds meaning he initially beat his guy and took out the QB ?

[Trotter]

forgetting for a second the hype around this defense - the bengal dline i saw this past monday is by far the best in the nfl this early

[Barry McCockinner]

5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

It's the QBs fault that the all universe D sucks, can't get off the field, cant stop the run, can;t rush the passer and can;t create turnovers.

I think it's fair to say the offense hasn't put us in many pass rush situations. But when we have been in pass rush situations it doesn't seem like we're getting home as much as we were last year.

 

[T0mShane]

Jermaine Johnson is a JAG, but the pass rush looks weak because both Dak Prescott and Mac Jones were shooting the ball out with microscopic times to throw and for ridiculously short air yards per attempt. IIRC, Dak was at an absurd 2.4 seconds, and Jones wasn’t much longer than that. Common theme: neither team felt any pressure to score, so they were happy to play small ball

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

It's the QBs fault that the all universe D sucks, can't get off the field, cant stop the run, can;t rush the passer and can;t create turnovers.

Kinda is, yes.  Horrid QB play infects the whole team.  Your crusade to defend Zach and rip on the D seems to forget basically all of Jets history.

Hell, even the 09-10 Jets D struggled to get off the field on 3rd downs at times.  And they were more known for getting 3-and-outs than turnovers.  

[Smashmouth]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Jermaine Johnson is a JAG, but the pass rush looks weak because both Dak Prescott and Mac Jones were shooting the ball out with microscopic times to throw and for ridiculously short air yards per attempt. IIRC, Dak was at an absurd 2.4 seconds, and Jones wasn’t much longer than that. Common theme: neither team felt any pressure to score, so they were happy to play small ball

He is out of position and he is ranked 42 in pressures .

In preseason vs tomato cans he had 3 pressures in 36 snaps last year and 3 in 15 this year for a whopping 8,3 percent and that was preseason LOL

the league average is 10.3 so yes JJ is a JAG pass rusher

[T0mShane]

5 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

He is out of position and he is ranked 42 in pressures .

In preseason vs tomato cans he had 3 pressures in 36 snaps last year and 3 in 15 this year for a whopping 8,3 percent and that was preseason LOL

the league average is 10.3 so yes JJ is a JAG pass rusher

Such a forced error to line him up over the left tackle, where he gets handled easily one on one. They should have kept him on the other side where he could square up against right tackles and score some cheap complementary pressures on bailing QBs

[jamesr]

28 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Harder to do when the offense can not get 1st downs.

I agree that guys like Jermaine Johnson and Carl Lawson need to do a better job on the edge but the Jets defense is constantly on it's heels. They've barely had a lead this year.

They haven't had a lead at any point this year. Through 12 quarters of football, we have yet to play one snap with a lead, on either offense or defense.

(EDIT - I had forgotten the brief lead at the end of the Bills game in Week 1, as pointed out above. 1 minute and 46 seconds of playing with a 3 point lead).

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

No. This doesn’t fit the narrative. The failure to pressure the QB at all this season so far is all Wilson’s fault.  Wilson is terrible, but the relentless pass rush we saw in the preseason and we were promised has been missing. I didn’t realize that only teams with the lead rush the passer. 

[Beerfish]

8 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I think it's fair to say the offense hasn't put us in many pass rush situations. But when we have been in pass rush situations it doesn't seem like we're getting home as much as we were last year.

 

Teams are running on us and being successful on early downs.   You get into pass rush situations as much by how you do on early downs as by anything the O does.

I'll say it again if we all want to agree that our D is absolutely nothing special, average and totally beholden to an to offense sustaining long drives I'll accept these excuses.

If people actually accept the long held thought that we have a great or eltie D these excuses do not wash at all.

And to not take it out on the players too much our scheme from out genius D coaches positively sucks at times.

[slimjasi]

20 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Kinda is, yes.  Horrid QB play infects the whole team.  Your crusade to defend Zach and rip on the D seems to forget basically all of Jets history.

Hell, even the 09-10 Jets D struggled to get off the field on 3rd downs at times.  And they were more known for getting 3-and-outs than turnovers.  

Bingo. 

People bashing the defense instead of the offense can't see the forest through the trees. 

The defense is good enough to compete with, the offense isn't. But sure, let's complain endlessly about the defense and bury our heads in the sand when we talk about the offense and QB. 

The other thing I would point out is that, interestingly, we were reading a lot of the same complaints about the defense after 3 games last year. Remember, last year, we had that really poor defensive performance in week 2 in Cleveland where we gave up 30 points and looked awful (similar to the Dallas game this year) and then had the lackluster performance at home in week 3 against the Bengals where QW was screaming at coaches on the sideline. It wasn't until week 4 in Pitt that we started to look like a top 5 defensive unit. I'm not worried about the defense . . . yet. 

I trust this defense infinitely more than this offense right now. My biggest worry with the defense is that they will quit on the season after a few more unwatchable performances by the offense. 

[jamesr]

4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Teams are running on us and being successful on early downs.   You get into pass rush situations as much by how you do on early downs as by anything the O does.

I'll say it again if we all want to agree that our D is absolutely nothing special, average and totally beholden to an to offense sustaining long drives I'll accept these excuses.

If people actually accept the long held thought that we have a great or eltie D these excuses do not wash at all.

And to not take it out on the players too much our scheme from out genius D coaches positively sucks at times.

The run defense is definitely weaker than the pass defense, I believe it was last year too. Whether due to personnel, scheme, or both, I don't know. 

This isn't a bad weakness to have IF you regularly lead in games and your opponent has to pass to catch up. And it can work to keep you in games like the one on Sunday where the opponent is happy to take a low risk, field position approach. But against higher scoring / quick strike teams (KC on Sunday for example) it has the makings of getting ugly very fast.

[ScarletKnight89]

16 minutes ago, jamesr said:

They haven't had a lead at any point this year. Through 12 quarters of football, we have yet to play one snap with a lead, on either offense or defense.

(EDIT - I had forgotten the brief lead at the end of the Bills game in Week 1, as pointed out above. 1 minute and 46 seconds of playing with a 3 point lead).

Yeah. They had a lead at the end of the Bills game before the Bills kicked a game tying FG that forced OT. That's it.

 

[Barton]

17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Such a forced error to line him up over the left tackle, where he gets handled easily one on one. They should have kept him on the other side where he could square up against eight tackles and score some cheap complementary pressures on bailing QBs

Bingo. Jermaine is much better playing vs the right tackle. Between this and not even playing McDonald, who can actually beat left tackles, it shows you how stupid the jets are. Get huff and McDonald chasing the QB. 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

10 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Bingo. 

People bashing the defense instead of the offense can't see the forest through the trees. 

The defense is good enough to compete with, the offense isn't. But sure, let's complain endlessly about the defense and bury our heads in the sand when we talk about the offense and QB. 

The other thing I would point out is that, interestingly, we were reading a lot of the same complaints about the defense after 3 games last year. Remember, last year, we had that really poor defensive performance in week 2 in Cleveland where we gave up 30 points and looked awful and then had the lackluster performance at home in week 3 against the Bengals where QW was screaming at coaches on the sideline. It wasn't until week 4 in Pitt that we started to look like a top 5 defensive unit. I'm not worried about defense . . . yet. 

I trust this defense infinitely more than this offense right now. My biggest worry with the defense is that they will quit on the season after a few more unwatchable performances by the offense. 

I am not sure why you insist on making this a binary argument. Criticizing the defense does not mean you are giving a pass to or are excusing the play of the QB and/or the offense. Those of us who are pointing out that the pass rush has been disappointing are not saying the offense is not the main issue. We are saying the defense has not been as good as expected or promised. A defense can rush the passer when trailing. The NE game was close and the Pats had numerous 3rd downs and Jones was never pressured

[Guilhermezmc]

35 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Jermaine Johnson is a JAG, but the pass rush looks weak because both Dak Prescott and Mac Jones were shooting the ball out with microscopic times to throw and for ridiculously short air yards per attempt. IIRC, Dak was at an absurd 2.4 seconds, and Jones wasn’t much longer than that. Common theme: neither team felt any pressure to score, so they were happy to play small ball

He's much more of a effort guy than a finnesse rusher at this point, the things that you pointed out are not helping him either. I liked him coming out of college lets hope he can develop some moves going forward. As of right now its worth having a look at how McDonald and Huff would work out in passing situations.

[Barry McCockinner]

He looks awful tbh. Let's get McDonald these snaps?

[jamesr]

6 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

I am not sure why you insist on making this a binary argument. Criticizing the defense does not mean you are giving a pass to or are excusing the play of the QB and/or the offense. Those of us who are pointing out that the pass rush has been disappointing are not saying the offense is not the main issue. We are saying the defense has not been as good as expected or promised. A defense can rush the passer when trailing. The NE game was close and the Pats had numerous 3rd downs and Jones was never pressured

The issue I have here is the premise they've "not been as good as expected or promised". If you go into a season believing all the off season hype and talk, and complain when it doesn't happen ... who is really to blame? If there's one thing I've learned following the Jets all these years, it's to keep the expectations in check.  

[RSJ]

Salehs pass rush has been declining since Nick Bosa left.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[jamesr]

6 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

 

Maybe @jetsrule128 can start a poll about players who should be inactive next week. Though it'd be a toss up for me between Lawson and Cook - 2 positions where we have better younger players ready to step up.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

10 minutes ago, jamesr said:

The issue I have here is the premise they've "not been as good as expected or promised". If you go into a season believing all the off season hype and talk, and complain when it doesn't happen ... who is really to blame? If there's one thing I've learned following the Jets all these years, it's to keep the expectations in check.  

That's a cop out as well.  This team was supposed to have a pass rush and doesn't.  That's a glaring disappointment. I don't expect them to be the top defense in the NFL, but with the personnel on this DL, expecting 3-4 sacks a game is not a stretch and instead we get 0.  

[hmhertz]

Nania & his Jets X Factor partner Joe Blewett showed their football smarts

by praising our bald fat bastid GM's   decision to sign Lawson over Trey Hendrickson

and guarantee him three times the money