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Stubborn Coaches might have found a winning script


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It’s not a hard concept. Not rocket science. It’s not just football. In baseball best pitchers throw curve when the batting is expecting fastball. Always have to keep opposition guessing what you’re doing. Saleh maybe finally learned being deceptive is lot smarter than trying to say “ here it comes, see if you can stop the run .” 

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23 minutes ago, bonkertons said:

I legit believe the play calling had little to do with anything.  Zach had quick hits he could have used against New England.  Plays designed to get the ball out quickly.  He was just shook, completely.  The biggest difference this week was Zach's confidence.  He believed he could hang in this league and it showed on the field.  Dude was getting pressured constantly and didn't give two sh*ts.  Got the ball out quickly, was confident in what he was seeing, wasn't panicking at all in the pocket.  I feel like he had better protection against New England, but you'd never know it.  

 

Don't get me wrong, Hackett called a good game, but IMO the biggest change from last week to last night was Zach's brain.  Something clicked, whether it was Rodgers being back or all the bullsh*t he's had to listen to these past 7 days, Joe Willie, sports radio, etc.  He blocked out the noise and balled out.  Much respect.  

Maybe it was both play calling and confidence.  Maybe both impacted the other.

I think we can agree running 80% of first downs into loaded boxes and putting him in 3rd and longs hasn’t been working dating back to end of last year. 

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I've typically been a Saleh defender b/c I think he has done a good job with the defense and obviously the players like him/play hard for him.

You nailed it though - he is stubborn to a major fault. 

He is too loyal to the vets. Even last year he was playing Lawrence Cager over Garrett Wilson....

For years we have been clamoring for more Bryce Huff. He had him inactive for a bunch of games last year - and was playing guys like Vinny Curry over him. Even this year (outside of last night) he plays his guys over him when he is clearly our best pass rusher. 

Everyone with eyes knew Ruckert was better than CJ - maybe even Conklin - but he waited three games until he actually put him on the field. 

Cobb is Rodgers buddy - once Rodgers went out there was no reason to keep playing him as much as he did. 

Tippman was great in the preseason and he was so slow to move him up deferring to guys like Schweitzer and CMG. Tippman has looked excellent now that an injury has given him an opportunity see the field. 

Cook is the last domino to fall. I hope this change is coming soon b/c he is just awful. 

It just doesn't feel like there is a meritocracy in place. It seems like if you were a high draft pick or a name free agent you are on the field over guys who have shown more. Even Zach Wilson - if he had put White in for the New England game last year we likely win that. If he went to Boyle last week at the half when Zach had like 8 yards passing we may have had a chance. He is too slow to make a change and it has cost this team wins. It is nice to see SOME changes - but they need to lean into it more and play the guys who are actually performing. 

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27 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Many here have been begging Saleh to try something different.  Be less predictable.  Make things easier for Zach.  Play aggressively.

Not surprisingly, here’s what worked 

1. Throw on first down.  Zach was 10-14 with several big plays that directly created SIX first downs before getting to 2nd down.  Only 1 negative play (sack)

2. Pass to set up the run and avoid 3rd & longs.  Several short gains to RBs were better than stuffed runs.  2, 3, 3 and 4 yard passing plays on first downs set up success for later plays

3. Further loosen the box by extending the field vertically and horizontally.  End arounds and deep shots kept KC off balance

4. Get guys like Ruckert & Gipson onto the field

I use the term forcing function a lot.  Stubborn Saleh was forced to change his script and it mostly worked.  The data supports this.

Let Zach play, stop asking him to play scared.  He’ll make some boneheaded plays but the key is to make some explosive ones and keep the defense guessing.

Been saying this forever. Coaching was and is a huge part of why Zack has failed. Football Guy who is an insider basically said that Saleh finally relented and let them play something other than the ultra conservative play calling they have. Not sure Saleh can help himself and not force them back but yesterday was first time we have seen Zach in a modern offense.

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22 minutes ago, Columbia Jet Fan said:

I've typically been a Saleh defender b/c I think he has done a good job with the defense and obviously the players like him/play hard for him.

You nailed it though - he is stubborn to a major fault. 

He is too loyal to the vets. Even last year he was playing Lawrence Cager over Garrett Wilson....

For years we have been clamoring for more Bryce Huff. He had him inactive for a bunch of games last year - and was playing guys like Vinny Curry over him. Even this year (outside of last night) he plays his guys over him when he is clearly our best pass rusher. 

Everyone with eyes knew Ruckert was better than CJ - maybe even Conklin - but he waited three games until he actually put him on the field. 

Cobb is Rodgers buddy - once Rodgers went out there was no reason to keep playing him as much as he did. 

Tippman was great in the preseason and he was so slow to move him up deferring to guys like Schweitzer and CMG. Tippman has looked excellent now that an injury has given him an opportunity see the field. 

Cook is the last domino to fall. I hope this change is coming soon b/c he is just awful. 

It just doesn't feel like there is a meritocracy in place. It seems like if you were a high draft pick or a name free agent you are on the field over guys who have shown more. Even Zach Wilson - if he had put White in for the New England game last year we likely win that. If he went to Boyle last week at the half when Zach had like 8 yards passing we may have had a chance. He is too slow to make a change and it has cost this team wins. It is nice to see SOME changes - but they need to lean into it more and play the guys who are actually performing. 

I have made many points about how stubborn Saleh is about moving away from his "systems". But conservative coaches are all like this. They just want all veterans playing and are petrified to inaction of a QB making a mistake.

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27 minutes ago, varjet said:

You can’t underestimate the influence of Aaron Rodgers on this team.  Woody has basically given the keys to the Jets to Aaron Rodgers for at least 2 years.

Aaron was out getting surgery and the team went to pot.  I think he came back and told the coaches what to do, which is basically what this Board has been saying.  

The improved results speak for themselves.  

Rodgers is the leader and head coach of this team, not Saleh

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35 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Many here have been begging Saleh to try something different.  Be less predictable.  Make things easier for Zach.  Play aggressively.

Not surprisingly, here’s what worked 

1. Throw on first down.  Zach was 10-14 with several big plays that directly created SIX first downs before getting to 2nd down.  Only 1 negative play (sack)

2. Pass to set up the run and avoid 3rd & longs.  Several short gains to RBs were better than stuffed runs.  2, 3, 3 and 4 yard passing plays on first downs set up success on 2nd and 3rd downs

3. Further loosen the box by extending the field vertically and horizontally.  End arounds and deep shots kept KC off balance

4. Get guys like Ruckert & Gipson onto the field

I use the term forcing function a lot.  Stubborn Saleh was forced to change his script and it mostly worked.  The data supports this.

Let Zach play, stop asking him to play scared.  He’ll make some boneheaded plays but the key is to make some explosive ones and keep the defense guessing.

This is what a lot of us asked for. You won't win in this league playing not to lose. 

I think opponent played a factor too. No one in their right mind believes they can beat the Chiefs 10-6 or some low scoring effort, you're gonna have to throw the ball and get chunk plays to score and beat them and that's what we did. Didn't get the W but we kept ourselves in the game by unchaining the offense and actually trying to move the ball.....

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Every defense is different.  A winning formula is having the tools to evaluate the opposing defense and use your offense against their weakness.  In short, ability to observe and adjust.  Is the Jets OC the broken clock that got it right once, or can he adjust week to week ???

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9 minutes ago, carlito1171 said:

This is what a lot of us asked for. You won't win in this league playing not to lose. 

I think opponent played a factor too. No one in their right mind believes they can beat the Chiefs 10-6 or some low scoring effort, you're gonna have to throw the ball and get chunk plays to score and beat them and that's what we did. Didn't get the W but we kept ourselves in the game by unchaining the offense and actually trying to move the ball.....

Yep but they better not go back to 'not trying to move the ball'.  LOL.

I'll write the following for the 10th time in the last few weeks.

Insanity:  Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.

I'm not happy Saleh was forced to change; as our HC he should have done so much sooner.  I am happy that Rodgers is in the room and helping develop a new baseline script (that should have a healthy dose of flexibility).  He's played the game and knows it's much easier to throw on first down than third down.   And if you can build some confidence, then that can catapult you to some good things.

For the mathematicians on the board:  (5 positive plays - 2 negative plays) > (0 positive plays - 0 negative plays).  Let Zach play freely.  Let him make some mistakes as long as he can make positive plays on his own AND loosen the box to allow the RBs the opportunity for positive plays.

 

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1 hour ago, bonkertons said:

I legit believe the play calling had little to do with anything.  Zach had quick hits he could have used against New England.  Plays designed to get the ball out quickly.  He was just shook, completely.  The biggest difference this week was Zach's confidence.  He believed he could hang in this league and it showed on the field.  Dude was getting pressured constantly and didn't give two sh*ts.  Got the ball out quickly, was confident in what he was seeing, wasn't panicking at all in the pocket.  I feel like he had better protection against New England, but you'd never know it.  

 

Don't get me wrong, Hackett called a good game, but IMO the biggest change from last week to last night was Zach's brain.  Something clicked, whether it was Rodgers being back or all the bullsh*t he's had to listen to these past 7 days, Joe Willie, sports radio, etc.  He blocked out the noise and balled out.  Much respect.  

Someone needs to play the clip of namaths interview about zach and rodney Harrison post game comments to zach prior to every game going forward. 

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7 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

Someone needs to play the clip of namaths interview about zach and rodney Harrison post game comments to zach prior to every game going forward. 

If Namath successfully turns Zach into a franchise QB just by publicly sh*tting on him, he instantly becomes an even bigger NYJ legend - which didn't seem possible.  

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3 hours ago, bonkertons said:

I legit believe the play calling had little to do with anything.  Zach had quick hits he could have used against New England.  Plays designed to get the ball out quickly.  He was just shook, completely.  The biggest difference this week was Zach's confidence.  He believed he could hang in this league and it showed on the field.  Dude was getting pressured constantly and didn't give two sh*ts.  Got the ball out quickly, was confident in what he was seeing, wasn't panicking at all in the pocket.  I feel like he had better protection against New England, but you'd never know it.  

 

Don't get me wrong, Hackett called a good game, but IMO the biggest change from last week to last night was Zach's brain.  Something clicked, whether it was Rodgers being back or all the bullsh*t he's had to listen to these past 7 days, Joe Willie, sports radio, etc.  He blocked out the noise and balled out.  Much respect.  

Well, the oldest motivation known to man is when someone is waiting in the wings to be your replacement. Signing Simian certainly put Zack on notice and maybe that is the fire that was put under him to bring out the best he could be. With TS on the team every week if Zack regresses could be his job and he knows that.

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5 hours ago, varjet said:

You can’t underestimate the influence of Aaron Rodgers on this team.  Woody has basically given the keys to the Jets to Aaron Rodgers for at least 2 years.

Aaron was out getting surgery and the team went to pot.  I think he came back and told the coaches what to do, which is basically what this Board has been saying.  

The improved results speak for themselves.  

Aaron sitting with Woody last night will have a huge impact as well. Coaching changes? Not unless Aaron says so.

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