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Late-Game Turnovers


Warfish

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vs. Dallas, Zach Wilson threw three late game INT's, one ending each of the Jets O's final three possessions in the 4th quarter vs. Dallas.

We were down 27-10, so almost assuredly not going to come back, but the INT's certainly sealed it.  

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vs. the Chiefs, Zach Wilson fumbled the snap at 7:24 remaining in the 4th quarter, down 23-20.

The Jets D failed to stop the Chiefs #1-in-NFL Offense make a loooooong drive, and the Jets O never got another chance with the ball.  

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vs. the Broncos, Zach Wilson threw an INT at 2:20 remaining in the 4th quarter, up only 24-21

Thankfully, after a brief drive, the Jets D forced a fumble, recovered for a TD closing the game out.

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While I would agree that Zach Wilson has shown some marked improvement (visually and statistically) during portions of the last two games, these late-game turnovers remain a concern.

In all three cases above, Zach's personal turnover(s) could have (or did) cost the Jets any chance to win the game.

Turnovers have been one of Zach's biggest problems as a pro, with 23 INT's and 9 fumbles in his 27 games played so far. 

He's never scored more TD"s (passing +rushing) than he's had turnovers, so far at least.

Turnovers are the biggest killer, untimely turnovers especially so.   Lets hope we continue to see Zach improve by not turning the ball over late game vs. the Eagles this week.

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12 minutes ago, Warfish said:

vs. Dallas, Zach Wilson threw three late game INT's, one ending each of the Jets O's final three possessions in the 4th quarter vs. Dallas.

We were down 27-10, so almost assuredly not going to come back, but the INT's certainly sealed it.  

----------------------

vs. the Chiefs, Zach Wilson fumbled the snap at 7:24 remaining in the 4th quarter, down 23-20.

The Jets D failed to stop the Chiefs #1-in-NFL Offense make a loooooong drive, and the Jets O never got another chance with the ball.  

----------------------

vs. the Broncos, Zach Wilson threw an INT at 2:20 remaining in the 4th quarter, up only 24-21

Thankfully, after a brief drive, the Jets D forced a fumble, recovered for a TD closing the game out.

----------------------

While I would agree that Zach Wilson has shown some marked improvement (visually and statistically) during portions of the last two games, these late-game turnovers remain a concern.

In all three cases above, Zach's personal turnover(s) could have (or did) cost the Jets any chance to win the game.

Turnovers have been one of Zach's biggest problems as a pro, with 23 INT's and 9 fumbles in his 27 games played so far. 

He's never scored more TD"s (passing +rushing) than he's had turnovers, so far at least.

Turnovers are the biggest killer, untimely turnovers especially so.   Lets hope we continue to see Zach improve by not turning the ball over late game vs. the Eagles this week.

While I agree with everything here, I think turnovers are second to his flat out inability to QB consistently.  I'd take turnovers if he didn't completely hinder our offense otherwise.  Drive down the field, throw for yardage, score TDs, convert 3rd downs instead of checking down constantly...  All of these things he struggles mightily with.

Outside of Dallas he's had 3 turnovers in 4 games.  Not brutal numbers normally, but combined with his general offense-crippling play, they are.

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47 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Zach has been the better QB on the field for 3 of the teams five games.  
When you have the better QB you should win.  Jets won 2 only two them. 
 

But Feel free to keep finding ways to blame QB.  

I think this says more about the Jets defense than the QB

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2 minutes ago, Hex said:

I think this says more about the Jets defense than the QB

It does, but it's not like we haven't been facing opposing defenses.  Most of which so far will finish well within the top half of the league.  And I bet Denver is middle of the pack at the end of the year even though they gave up 3 games worth of stats in one.

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6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I didn’t have a major issue with the fumbled snap (a flukey okay that happens to everyone from time to time) or the surtain pick (a great play by a great player).

 

my biggest issue with zach, by far, is that we still don’t score enough touchdowns with him at QB. He led one TD drive all preseason. Boyle had like 3 or 4? We scored 1 offensive TD against the bills, 1 against NE, 2 against KC, and 1 against Denver. Not good enough.
 

we need more TDs. I think he’s moved the ball fairly well and has been much more accurate than last year, but we aren’t converting scoring opportunities into TDs, and that has to change for us to be a playoff contender. 

Also when you win the turnover battle against Buffalo +3 and Denver +2 you should not have to eke out an OT victory on a punt return and barely beat a bad Denver team that had the D contribute 9 points........Offense is just that offensive to watch.......

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

vs. Dallas, Zach Wilson threw three late game INT's, one ending each of the Jets O's final three possessions in the 4th quarter vs. Dallas.

We were down 27-10, so almost assuredly not going to come back, but the INT's certainly sealed it.  

----------------------

vs. the Chiefs, Zach Wilson fumbled the snap at 7:24 remaining in the 4th quarter, down 23-20.

The Jets D failed to stop the Chiefs #1-in-NFL Offense make a loooooong drive, and the Jets O never got another chance with the ball.  

----------------------

vs. the Broncos, Zach Wilson threw an INT at 2:20 remaining in the 4th quarter, up only 24-21

Thankfully, after a brief drive, the Jets D forced a fumble, recovered for a TD closing the game out.

----------------------

While I would agree that Zach Wilson has shown some marked improvement (visually and statistically) during portions of the last two games, these late-game turnovers remain a concern.

In all three cases above, Zach's personal turnover(s) could have (or did) cost the Jets any chance to win the game.

Turnovers have been one of Zach's biggest problems as a pro, with 23 INT's and 9 fumbles in his 27 games played so far. 

He's never scored more TD"s (passing +rushing) than he's had turnovers, so far at least.

Turnovers are the biggest killer, untimely turnovers especially so.   Lets hope we continue to see Zach improve by not turning the ball over late game vs. the Eagles this week.

Fumbled a bad snap vs KC but should have handled it

Turning the ball over, throwing picks when you're down 3 scores to a top of the league defenses like in Dallas happens.  

The pick vs Denver amounted to nothing and was more of a case of GW missing a ball that sailed throw his hands/arms. 

A of it is game situations, Dallas, and it’s part of the game, they happen.  

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13 minutes ago, JetsMetsRangers said:

Also when you win the turnover battle against Buffalo +3 and Denver +2 you should not have to eke out an OT victory on a punt return and barely beat a bad Denver team that had the D contribute 9 points........Offense is just that offensive to watch.......

Stop. This is the NFL.   Two of Allen’s int’s were basically punts.  
 

if you’re going to use silly points to try and blame your QB even for wins - you should tell the whole story.  

At the same time blaming Zach for turnovers while acknowledging one of the top 5 QB’s in the game also has bad stretches. 

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20 minutes ago, JetsMetsRangers said:

Also when you win the turnover battle against Buffalo +3 and Denver +2 you should not have to eke out an OT victory on a punt return and barely beat a bad Denver team that had the D contribute 9 points........Offense is just that offensive to watch.......

Where do you get this theory from?  

How did we barely beat Denver?  We won, most NFL games are close
 

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1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

Stop. This is the NFL.   Two of Allen’s int’s were basically punts.  
 

if you’re going to use silly points to try and blame your QB even for wins - you should tell the whole story.  

At the same time blaming Zach for turnovers while acknowledging one of the top 5 QB’s in the game also has bad stretches. 

Where did mention the QB?.....said the offense is offensive which it is........Red zone sucks.......Too many 3 and outs .......The offense does not score enough TD's and the guy who handles the ball every play yes has a major part in its effectiveness but again never mentioned Zach in my post!

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vs. Dallas, Zach Wilson threw three late game INT's, one ending each of the Jets O's final three possessions in the 4th quarter vs. Dallas.
We were down 27-10, so almost assuredly not going to come back, but the INT's certainly sealed it.  
----------------------
vs. the Chiefs, Zach Wilson fumbled the snap at 7:24 remaining in the 4th quarter, down 23-20.
The Jets D failed to stop the Chiefs #1-in-NFL Offense make a loooooong drive, and the Jets O never got another chance with the ball.  
----------------------
vs. the Broncos, Zach Wilson threw an INT at 2:20 remaining in the 4th quarter, up only 24-21
Thankfully, after a brief drive, the Jets D forced a fumble, recovered for a TD closing the game out.
----------------------
While I would agree that Zach Wilson has shown some marked improvement (visually and statistically) during portions of the last two games, these late-game turnovers remain a concern.
In all three cases above, Zach's personal turnover(s) could have (or did) cost the Jets any chance to win the game.
Turnovers have been one of Zach's biggest problems as a pro, with 23 INT's and 9 fumbles in his 27 games played so far. 
He's never scored more TD"s (passing +rushing) than he's had turnovers, so far at least.
Turnovers are the biggest killer, untimely turnovers especially so.   Lets hope we continue to see Zach improve by not turning the ball over late game vs. the Eagles this week.


Please go watch 1JD on the official website. Zach addresses this very issue. Kind of hard to kick the after he owns up to this publicly.

I am down on him at this point myself. However, I am not going to kick a man when he is down and taking responsibility for his actions.




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2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Stop. This is the NFL.   Two of Allen’s int’s were basically punts.  
 

if you’re going to use silly points to try and blame your QB even for wins - you should tell the whole story.  

At the same time blaming Zach for turnovers while acknowledging one of the top 5 QB’s in the game also has bad stretches. 

are your seriously comparing one of the top 5 QBs the last few years to the worst QB the last few years?

see thats the difference. when your one of the best for a long while you get the benefit of the doubt. you can have a bad game or 2. Zach has been the worst so he gets no such thing.

Zach is like the guy who always come in late to work complaining he should be treated the same way as the guy who rarely comes in late for work.

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2 hours ago, GKnight83 said:

Please go watch 1JD on the official website. Zach addresses this very issue. Kind of hard to kick the after he owns up to this publicly.

I am down on him at this point myself. However, I am not going to kick a man when he is down and taking responsibility for his actions.

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

He doesn't read this forum you know.  No need to worry about "kicking him", he's not here to kick.

But I'm glad to hear he "owned up to this publicly", especially since a subset of his biggest fans here at JN seem to think it's a non-issue.

Glad to hear Zach feels it IS an issue, and wants to address it. 

As I ended the OP, lets hope we continue to see Zach improve by not turning the ball over late game vs. the Eagles this week.

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7 hours ago, slimjasi said:

I didn’t have a major issue with the fumbled snap (a flukey play that happens to everyone from time to time) or the surtain pick (a great play by a great player).

 

my biggest issue with zach, by far, is that we still don’t score enough touchdowns with him at QB. He led one TD drive all preseason. Boyle had like 3 or 4? We scored 1 offensive TD against the bills, 1 against NE, 2 against KC, and 1 against Denver. Not good enough.
 

we need more TDs. I think he’s moved the ball fairly well and has been much more accurate than last year, but we aren’t converting scoring opportunities into TDs, and that has to change for us to be a playoff contender. 

Agreed. In the RZ they need to get in by more passing to TEs and perhaps put pressure on the D by actually calling designed QB runs as Zak may be able ti get in there with his feet. Don’t care if the TDs are by running of the QB or passing, just get in there. Jets also need to get the RBs to get in there so their short yardage running needs to improve. But, as you said, in a nutshell how this team plays on O in the RZ the remainder of the season will be the main reason for making or missing the playoffs, even moreso than turnovers by the O.

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13 hours ago, Warfish said:

vs. the Broncos, Zach Wilson threw an INT at 2:20 remaining in the 4th quarter, up only 24-21

0-5 in the red zone against the worst defense is even more alarming. The interception could have cost us the game--they simply had tons of time.--we were lucky enough that their offense is worst than their defense,,  I am not putting all the blame on Zach, there were penalties from the line and it was a collective blunder from the entire offense.  

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13 hours ago, rtnelson said:

Dallas we were chucking the ball up hoping for a prayer to get within two scores late in the game...

KC, not sure how you could expect a 7:30 opposing drive starting from midfield after the defense made at least two stops which were continuously negated by questionable refereeing.

Denver, you can argue it wasn't a great throw but the ball went through our receivers arms and was caught with the DB's thighs while falling down.  Hard to argue that was anything but a fluke play made by a great player. 

While the trend on paper is concerning, none of these blend well together in a theme that screams terrible QB play.  Mahomes dropped a snap, he just didn't have his LG get blown up with a defender already in the backfield before he had a chance to pick it up.

To add onto this. GW himself said he should’ve got that ball. 

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14 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

The Dallas game the whole game plan was trash. We barely even had the ball that game. So we were forced to go rogue. Not excusing his awful play. But everyone looked bad that day.

 

Wilson’s fumble was costly. For sure against KC. Refs ultimately we’re the difference in that one though more so than 1 fumble.

 

And that INT to Surtain last week wasn’t that bad of a throw. Could it have been better? For sure. Wasn’t thrown to his back shoulder like it should’ve been. But GW still had the chance to make a play on it and Surtain just out worked it. Let’s not forget that Surtain is one of the best CBs in the league and sometimes just give the guy props. So while the throw wasn’t perfect. It wasn’t just this god awful decision and pass.

I agree w/ the Cowboy game.  Team wasnt ready for the buzz saw that was Micah Parsons that night.  

Disagree on KC.  They never got the ball back after the fumble, now I agree they should have w/ a terrible call but the only time you can really control the game is on offense a turnover of that ilk, was brutal.  You could have put easy money on the Chiefs running that clock out w/ Mahomes ability to pick up 1st down w/ his feet.

Interestingly enough, on the pick vs. Denver. Pre-snap, when I saw G.Wilson was 1 on 1, I said out loud "I want to see Zach go to his play maker here, I dont care if he throws a pick, just recognize that your best player is 1 on 1 in a crucial situation and let him make a play".  Ofcourse I cursed the screen when it happened but it was a weirdly refreshing moment. 

 

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Completely agree with the OP, and can't help but laugh at the narrative that follows from some of how it is somehow magically never Wilson's fault when he has been a consistently poor QB throughout his NFL career.

It's not exactly an outlier when you have to come up with excuses for every single game he ever plays consistently showing the same issues.

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The game against the Eagles should give us an idea on how well this coaching staff adjusts on the fly.  Given that the OL is gelling together--with  Tomlinson and Becton making huge strides on the left side; Tippman is holding on his own and McGovern being a McGovern--I think that it is safe to say that the unit true identity will be tested against the Eagles. 

The outcome of this game will the baseline index moving forward. If it is a close game, the NY Jets should look into upgrading hence being at 2-4, and vice versa (fire sale). if we get blown away.   

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11 hours ago, doitny said:

 

are your seriously comparing one of the top 5 QBs the last few years to the worst QB the last few years?

see thats the difference. when your one of the best for a long while you get the benefit of the doubt. you can have a bad game or 2. Zach has been the worst so he gets no such thing.

Zach is like the guy who always come in late to work complaining he should be treated the same way as the guy who rarely comes in late for work.

Eh. More excuses to give you reason to attack your QB even though he’s been playing well tge past couple of weeks. 
I get it, in your mind he can do nothing well. It’s fine.  

Honestly, this response is one of the most disingenuous posts I’ve read around here.  
I never compared Zach to Allen (wasn’t even insulated) 

Zach was the better QB on the field for 3 of the 5 games.  Had one really bad stinker against BB.  And the whole team got steamrolled against Dallas.  

Even the point you have to make up analogies that have no relation the situation. 

Zach has a long way to go and a lot to prove to become a legit franchise QB.   Right now he’s still far from it, I’ll be the first to say that.  but you guys literally make sh*t up to complain just to make it worse - because accepting there’s been sone growth is unacceptable. .  

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15 hours ago, Warfish said:

vs. Dallas, Zach Wilson threw three late game INT's, one ending each of the Jets O's final three possessions in the 4th quarter vs. Dallas.

We were down 27-10, so almost assuredly not going to come back, but the INT's certainly sealed it.  

----------------------

vs. the Chiefs, Zach Wilson fumbled the snap at 7:24 remaining in the 4th quarter, down 23-20.

The Jets D failed to stop the Chiefs #1-in-NFL Offense make a loooooong drive, and the Jets O never got another chance with the ball.  

----------------------

vs. the Broncos, Zach Wilson threw an INT at 2:20 remaining in the 4th quarter, up only 24-21

Thankfully, after a brief drive, the Jets D forced a fumble, recovered for a TD closing the game out.

----------------------

While I would agree that Zach Wilson has shown some marked improvement (visually and statistically) during portions of the last two games, these late-game turnovers remain a concern.

In all three cases above, Zach's personal turnover(s) could have (or did) cost the Jets any chance to win the game.

Turnovers have been one of Zach's biggest problems as a pro, with 23 INT's and 9 fumbles in his 27 games played so far. 

He's never scored more TD"s (passing +rushing) than he's had turnovers, so far at least.

Turnovers are the biggest killer, untimely turnovers especially so.   Lets hope we continue to see Zach improve by not turning the ball over late game vs. the Eagles this week.

All true but the thing is that Zach is throwing when it counts. In the Denver game the muff before halftime was much worse than the int. G Wilson had a good shot at the ball but Surtain made a better play.  In Dallas, that game was going nowhere when the ints happened.  Al they did was decrease Zach’s qbr.  Against kc the fumble was bad but don’t forget the defense had them at third and long a couple of times but the chiefs made first downs.

 Not saying Zach is perfect but in many games he has been tentative to throw and that led to sacks or poor running efforts.  But he was also protecting the ball.  Is that the Zach we want to see or do we want to see a guy who can make some eye opening throws?  I think he’s getting much better and more used to where his guys are.

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2 hours ago, Bronx said:

0-5 in the red zone against the worst defense is even more alarming. The interception could have cost us the game--they simply had tons of time.--we were lucky enough that their offense is worst than their defense,,  I am not putting all the blame on Zach, there were penalties from the line and it was a collective blunder from the entire offense.  

AntiZaxxers … SMH … Denver had 3 guys back and their defense performed similarly in their next game…

But sure let’s compare to the weeks before where the players were all out.  

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31 minutes ago, Hal said:

AntiZaxxers … SMH … Denver had 3 guys back and their defense performed similarly in their next game…

But sure let’s compare to the weeks before where the players were all out.  

I forgot they got back prime Reggie White, Ray Lewis and Troy Polamalu.  My bad. 

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2 minutes ago, Hal said:

I see your double down and I raise you a photo of a score against KC from 2 days ago:

 

2C489301-DC7A-4C73-88D5-AA577CC05E73.jpeg

The thing is though, just because KC’s offense is kinda meh so far this year, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have high expectations. 
 

I think it’s ok to demand an above average offense 

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2 hours ago, rangerous said:

In the Denver game the muff before halftime was much worse than the int.

Fair point.  Lost points there too.

2 hours ago, rangerous said:

G Wilson had a good shot at the ball but Surtain made a better play.

I can't help but notice that ones view on the responsibility for that INT often aligns with how much one loved Zach Wilson, lol.

2 hours ago, rangerous said:

In Dallas, that game was going nowhere when the ints happened.

Perhaps we went nowhere in part because those INT's happen.  Change one to a scoring drive, maybe it's a different game (reasonably).

2 hours ago, rangerous said:

Against kc the fumble was bad but don’t forget the defense had them at third and long a couple of times but the chiefs made first downs.

Defense definitely let us all down allowing that long a drive.

But again, Zach leads a scoring drive instead of fumbling, maybe it's a very different game.

2 hours ago, rangerous said:

Not saying Zach is perfect but in many games he has been tentative to throw and that led to sacks or poor running efforts.  But he was also protecting the ball.  Is that the Zach we want to see or do we want to see a guy who can make some eye opening throws?  I think he’s getting much better and more used to where his guys are.

I think if you have to parse it out like this, it's a problem either way.  We should want an expect both, ball protection AND ability to lead scoring drives late in games.  The Eagles are likely going to be a heck of a test of this "new and improved" Zach.

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1 hour ago, Hal said:

AntiZaxxers … SMH … Denver had 3 guys back and their defense performed similarly in their next game…

But sure let’s compare to the weeks before where the players were all out.  

I sure am going to miss you when Zach is backing up in Detroit or somewhere next year. 

Hopefully you find less haterz and more loverz on those forums, lol.

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2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Honestly, this response is one of the most disingenuous posts I’ve read around here.  
I never compared Zach to Allen (wasn’t even insulated) 

really whats this sound like?

 

16 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

At the same time blaming Zach for turnovers while acknowledging one of the top 5 QB’s in the game also has bad stretches. 

16 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Stop. This is the NFL.   Two of Allen’s int’s were basically punts.

sounds like you are comparing them.

sounds like your mad that people are mad that Zach makes TOs when Allen a top 5 QB does it too. 

thats comparing the 2. 

we all know Zach was on his last NFL lives vs KC. he bought himself a little more time but hes hanging and a thread. another really bad game or 2 and he is done. Josh Allen can have a bad year and he will still be the Bills starter next year. they are 2 different situations and should never be mentioned together.

he has improved. but he was the worst QB in NFL history, there was no where to go but up for him. 

i give you credit. you were one of the die hard Zach fans last year and it took you a while but you finally jumped off his ship. and have been critical of him. there are 3 or 4 guys here who never left and are stuck and the bottom of the Atlantic. so good for you.

but maybe your having a withdrawal. we seen Zachs problems last year when you didnt. or refuse to see it.

and @Warfish is only talking about the TOs. Zach had 2 fumbles last week. 1 he recovered on the sack and the other he got lucky and they say was caused by the ground. the kid has a problem with ball security too.

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