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McDonald was the Unsung Hero


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3 minutes ago, slats said:

There have been a few derisive comments about his car jumping ability around here, but he clearly put those skills to use on that play. 

Hopefully that Car jumping leads to sacks I could careless if he has the ability to “scare” kickers 

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3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Amazing that guy could do that but the defensive coaches can’t figure out how to stunt him to get that athletic guy to the qb

My sarcasm aside, you're 100% right.  If this guy is legit, lets get him on the field making plays and validating his very high selection.

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

My sarcasm aside, you're 100% right.  If this guy is legit, lets get him on the field making plays and validating his very high selection.

They drafted him and izzy, two uber athletic guys who could change games and they just keep them in the garage.  It will be interesting to see how things change or don’t after the trade deadline.  

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50 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Is it wrong I was already looking away? 

My eyes were closed, I saw it on replay. 

48 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Hopefully that Car jumping leads to sacks I could careless if he has the ability to “scare” kickers 

I’d like to see sacks, but if he can block a FG like that I’ll take that as well. 

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I don't think Gano was distracted.  I'm imagining that NFL Kickers are focused on the placement of the ball and kick through it.  Whatever is happening up front should have no bearing on his process.   The only thing that should stop him is the holder messing up the hold. 

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2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Again, can only speak for me:

My ire is less about MacDonald, and more about JD and priorities.  WR (IMO) was a huge need in our draft, despite all the "Well, we had Davis tho" talk.  This fanbase loathed Davis, almost everyone here wanted him gone for cap space and we were all shocked he wasn't waived to get it.  Lazard has very much disappointed so far.  Cobb is an old non-entity waiting for his bro to come back, and Hardman is gone already.  The two rookies, very much TBD on real pro potential at WR.

So all this was known at the draft, we all knew our O was one of the worst in the NFL in 2022, and our D was one of the best in 2022.  The only unknown (which should IMO have been known by our GM) was that Davis was thinking about retirement.  But that shouldn't have mattered because Davis should have been waived to start with!

WR was a huge need then, and reading this board now, it's clear WR remains a huge need now.

As little faith as I have in Zach Wilson, he deserved better than this WR group.  Regardless of if one liked JSN, or one of the other WR's in that class, a WR was so much more of a need than a D-end we could apparently afford to sit most of the season, it's just painful.

And here we are again, one of the worst offenses in the NFL, with a top Defense again.  

At some point, something has to change.

We keep going round and round on this.  Your preference is noted.  Who did you want?  Put a name on it?  JSN has done very little to date.  He and Flowers are kind of slot only options and I don't think that is what we are looking for.  Particularly at 15.  Quintin Johnston is the one big bodied guy sitting there and he has been pretty terrible.  In a high level offense with Herbert he has 12 catches for 114/0 on 21 targets.  I guess Addison looks like the hindsight pick, but a short armed quick WR without play strength isn't something I am getting excited about at 15 either.  It would be nice to have another weapon, but it probably isn't moving the needle on this team.  The better argument would probably be for Puka Nacua or Josh Downs later on, but that loses the cache of complaining about McDonald.  Also, at that point you have to give them a chance to develop - like our UDFA who may be contributors as the year goes on.

Rodgers traditionally shreds rookies and uses his wacky complicated hand signals to get guys open that would be close to impossible for rookies to discern while Lazard, Cobb and Taylor have been in the system for years and succeeded.  Something did change.  The QB.  He got hurt.  You can complain about going in for an old guy that would get hurt, or signing Cook instead of a receiver (or at all in my case), but you can't act like they went into the season planning on this being their offense. 

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2 minutes ago, prime21 said:

I don't think Gano was distracted.  I'm imagining that NFL Kickers are focused on the placement of the ball and kick through it.  Whatever is happening up front should have no bearing on his process.   The only thing that should stop him is the holder messing up the hold. 

Or the rain.  Or his swollen knee.

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5 minutes ago, prime21 said:

I don't think Gano was distracted.  I'm imagining that NFL Kickers are focused on the placement of the ball and kick through it.  Whatever is happening up front should have no bearing on his process.   The only thing that should stop him is the holder messing up the hold. 

Exactly Gano never noticed Will, is looking down at the ball.......

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4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Again, can only speak for me:

My ire is less about MacDonald, and more about JD and priorities.  WR (IMO) was a huge need in our draft, despite all the "Well, we had Davis tho" talk.  This fanbase loathed Davis, almost everyone here wanted him gone for cap space and we were all shocked he wasn't waived to get it.  Lazard has very much disappointed so far.  Cobb is an old non-entity waiting for his bro to come back, and Hardman is gone already.  The two rookies, very much TBD on real pro potential at WR.

So all this was known at the draft, we all knew our O was one of the worst in the NFL in 2022, and our D was one of the best in 2022.  The only unknown (which should IMO have been known by our GM) was that Davis was thinking about retirement.  But that shouldn't have mattered because Davis should have been waived to start with!

WR was a huge need then, and reading this board now, it's clear WR remains a huge need now.

As little faith as I have in Zach Wilson, he deserved better than this WR group.  Regardless of if one liked JSN, or one of the other WR's in that class, a WR was so much more of a need than a D-end we could apparently afford to sit most of the season, it's just painful.

And here we are again, one of the worst offenses in the NFL, with a top Defense again.  

At some point, something has to change.

I won't lie and say edge was on my radar with that pick.  It certainly wasn't, but I understand the thought process behind it.

 

I don't think anyone disliked Davis.  I think people assumed in order to make the cap work, he'd need to go(same with Lawson).  Turned out that wasn't the case.  Leading up to camp, most people I saw had him listed as our #2 ahead of Lazard.  We can talk like it was a forgone conclusion that this was bound to happen, but it's just not the case.  People wanted JSN more for long-term prospects than what he'd bring in 2023-24.  

 

OL is what it is.  We dropped out of range for one of the top guys.  Can blame JD for that, but it doesn't change the fact that if we wanted one, we either would have had to move up or reach for a Mathew Bergeron type.  I wouldn't have hated a trade down, and considering how long it took JD to make the pick, my guess is that's exactly what they were trying to do.  Didn't work out so they just took their guy.  

 

Davis retiring changes things for sure.  We wouldn't have needed much in that area if he didn't leave - even now.  Maybe you'd still go for a Renfrow type, but I'm assuming the plan was to roll with this veteran group and then maybe draft a guy next year.  Put a couple of seasons in between Garrett and your new shiny toy, as far as new contracts go. 

 

But yeah I can't get too down on JD as far as "things needing to change" considering how much has been invested into this offense.  I know the common theme here is that it's been ignored, but the facts don't lie.  Since he took over, 8 out of his 11 1st and 2nd rounders have all gone to the offensive side of the ball.  Becton, Mims, Zach, AVT, Moore, Garrett, Breece, Tippmann.  Not to mention trading another two 2nds to fix clearly the biggest hole this team had, the QB.  Obviously injuries are part of the game, but had we not been completely crippled by them, I really don't think this line would be a problem.  Losing AVT and Tippmann is a big hit.  Even going from McGovern to whoever the hell that 4th string C was.  WR, sure...I'll give it to you.  I don't think it would have been a bad move to take one at some point in that '23 draft, even in the 5th or 6th.  OL though?  Things look bad now but I'm not sure how that could have been avoided.  Brown, AVT, Tippmann, McGovern, Schweitzer.  We're not even halfway through the season.  

 

...but yeah, back to McDonald, it's clear there is a ton of talent there.  Some guys take a bit to put it together, much like JJ this year, or Q back in 2020.  Yesterday was hopefully a nice building block for him going forward.  Hopefully he starts getting some more consistent time and we start seeing some sacks as a result.  No matter what though, we should be pretty damn strong up front for a while, especially if Huff is brought back(which he should).  It's clear that having an elite, deep DL is a necessity for this coaching staff, so it is what it is IMO with the McD pick.  Had we passed on Justin Jefferson, maybe I'd be in your boat right now.  I don't think we did though.  

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8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

We keep going round and round on this.  Your preference is noted.

As is your disagreement.  

8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Who did you want?  Put a name on it?  JSN has done very little to date.

I wanted JSN, I made that clear then and since.  What he's produced there as the #3 doesn't mean it's what he's produce here.  And even then, he's about on par with Lazard production-wise despite having been hurt and (I believe) seeing far less snaps this year vs. Lazard.

But it's not about JSN specifically, it's more conceptual, about how one builds a team and prioritizes needs.  

8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Rodgers traditionally shreds rookies

Rodgers isn't our GM, and an Edge sitting on the bench doesn't help him either.  In point of fact, JD should have stood up to Rodgers in re: Cobb vs. a different more capable WR.

8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Something did change.  The QB.  He got hurt.  You can complain about going in for an old guy that would get hurt, or signing Cook instead of a receiver (or at all in my case), but you can't act like they went into the season planning on this being their offense. 

When your plans all fail, usually there is ramifications.  If my complaining is the worst ramification JD sees, he's very lucky, lol.

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

As is your disagreement.  

I wanted JSN, I made that clear then and since.  What he's produced there as the #3 doesn't mean it's what he's produce here.  And even then, he's about on par with Lazard production-wise despite having been hurt and (I believe) seeing far less snaps this year vs. Lazard.

But it's not about JSN specifically, it's more conceptual, about how one builds a team and prioritizes needs.  

Rodgers isn't our GM, and an Edge sitting on the bench doesn't help him either.  In point of fact, JD should have stood up to Rodgers in re: Cobb vs. a different more capable WR.

When your plans all fail, usually there is ramifications.  If my complaining is the worst ramification JD sees, he's very lucky, lol.

All this is the same sh*t we are rehashing.  JSN would have better numbers here than Seattle?  I think that is a ridiculous thought, but I understand it.  Isn't it also likely that if Rodgers were the QB that Lazard and Cobb would have considerably better numbers?

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7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

All this is the same sh*t we are rehashing.

I'm not making you rehash it, or reply to me.  

7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

JSN would have better numbers here than Seattle?  I think that is a ridiculous thought, but I understand it.  Isn't it also likely that if Rodgers were the QB that Lazard and Cobb would have considerably better numbers?

Yes (I think JSN as our #2 would have better numbers than Lazard).

Yes (I think Rodgers being healthy would result in better numbers for Lazard).

The real question I'd ask is "if it was JSN with Rodgers vs. Lazard with Rodgers, who would have the better production", and I very much believe it would JSN.

All speculative, and we'll never know.

What we know is this:  MacDonald has been a non-factor in 2023 (which hopefully will now start to change) and the fanbase (as represented on this forum), generally, thinks we suck at WR other than G. Wilson.

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22 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I'm not making you rehash it, or reply to me.  

Yes (I think JSN as our #2 would have better numbers than Lazard).

Yes (I think Rodgers being healthy would result in better numbers for Lazard).

The real question I'd ask is "if it was JSN with Rodgers vs. Lazard with Rodgers, who would have the better production", and I very much believe it would JSN.

All speculative, and we'll never know.

What we know is this:  MacDonald has been a non-factor in 2023 (which hopefully will now start to change) and the fanbase (as represented on this forum), generally, thinks we suck at WR other than G. Wilson.

I'm not complaining about the re-hash.  Just saying that so you understand that if there are 10 points in that post and 8 we have already agreed to disagree on there is no need to go back over that until there is more information (for instance JSN or McDonald turns out to be a player or is cut).  The fact I am not systematically going down each point you made does not mean that I agree. 

I very much believe that Lazard would have better numbers.  VERY much.

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32 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I wanted JSN, I made that clear then and since.  What he's produced there as the #3 doesn't mean it's what he's produce here.  And even then, he's about on par with Lazard production-wise despite having been hurt and (I believe) seeing far less snaps this year vs. Lazard.

But it's not about JSN specifically, it's more conceptual, about how one builds a team and prioritizes needs.  

Why would you be mad about McDonald and not, say, upset about passing on Puka Nacua a bunch of times? 

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