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Is the current state of QB play in the NFL a reflection of lazy uninspired coaching?


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5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

How much do QBs get paid vs OCs (or even offense-minded HCs)?

Follow the money.  

Ex:

Andy Reid’s salary:  $12M per

20 QBs in the league clear that salary.  14 of those 20 make more than 3x as much as Reid does.

Try to explain that one through the lens of “coaching matters as much as a QBs individual skills and ability”.

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8 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

 

We all know that the number of QBs in the NFL considered to be very good at their craft is at an all-time low and seemingly getting worse each year as the number of new QBs who fail to fulfill their draft status seems to be about as close to 100% as you can get. Recently, I've wondered if this could be due to a factor other than all of the QBs simply being no good. I am now beginning to believe that it is not the QBs at all. It's lazy uninspired coaches who expect these QBs to be football savants and franchise saviors projecting upon them otherworldly abilities that no QB possess in combination early in their careers and few do even later in their careers. They have this expectation of finding a ready out the box QB with a rocket arm, pinpoint accuracy, the ability to see the entire field, the ability to throw with anticipation, the ability to read a defense as well as many other qualities  on their laundry list of what it takes to be a franchise QB. While they are not silly enough to express that this is their expectation from day 1, they uniformly believe that these talents will be unearthed after 16 or so starts. With few exceptions coaches do not view QBs as a player who they need to protect by emphasizing their strengths and not exposing their weaknesses. The expectation is that they will be able to do everything. This has never been more apparent when you consider the inability of coaches given credit for "developing" a franchise QB to repeat that feat.... Cowher did it once with Ben and failed with every other QB; Bellicheat famously has failed with tons of QBs not name Brady. Noll and Bradshaw; Payton and Brees; Levy and Kelly; Johnson and Aikman; Holmgren and Favre etc etc etc. Not one of these coaches "developed" their great QB. Instead, they lucked into it. A few great coaches figure out how to get the most out of their QBs whoever they are - Gibbs, Parcells, Harbaugh (both)  and Carroll. Some even have a knack of either identifying or developing great QBs - Walsh and Reed.  But these guys are the exceptions The rest of the coaching profession is just waiting for some kid to come out of college and deliver them a SB contender by simply being an otherworldly talent. The NFL coaching fraternity needs to take a long look in the mirror and come to terms with their over-reliance on a QB from heaven delivering a winning team and accept their role in the current level of terrible QB play in the NFL today.

Harbaugh doesn't get enough credit for making his Zach Wilson talent leveled QB, Kaepernick look like a starting calibre NFL QB.

I wish we could have got him instead of Michigan 

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24 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Ex:

Andy Reid’s salary:  $12M per

20 QBs in the league clear that salary.  14 of those 20 make more than 3x as much as Reid does.

Try to explain that one through the lens of “coaching matters as much as a QBs individual skills and ability”.

You can't coach up. Qb to mahomes level, he is going to be good no matter what. But you can coach a Zach Wilson to NFL starter if you're good. Or you can get a great player to be consistent like reid has done.

So rather have a great QB than great coach but def want one or the other

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I don't think lazy applies at all.  Pressure to win now is the main fly in the ointment.  Not one in twenty rookie QBs is plug and play.  The answer might be to give the team control for six years instead of five.  It takes time to get these guys ready to play and if you rush them they will break.   

Also teams need to give the OL MUCH higher priority.  You can't learn if your getting killed.    

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7 hours ago, RoadFan said:

You have a point, but I think your reasoning for failure at the QB position is only partially accurate.  I see a few causes;

1) QB in the NFL is the most difficult position in all of sports.   Most simply cannot do it.

2) NFL coaches are not lazy.  They work 100 hours a week.  What they are is beneficiaries of a good ‘ol boys club of nepotism and cronyism.  They get fired from one job and hired by another team.

3) The truly innovative coaches are mostly in the college game.  Problem is, the best ones would rather stay there.  Position is way more secure and they don’t get treated like outcasts trying to penetrate and expose the recycling of  incompetent coaches. 

I’d say I would blame the QB situation more on the NFL and college’s inability to work together to have QBs prepare in college for the pro level not just with pro level offenses, which most colleges don’t run, but in other areas and nor just getting a high draft position to garner so much money up front. These 2 football entities need to work toward better college defenses for these QBs to learn against so when they start in the pros their talents can translate there after about a year. Then on the NFL side they need to try to enforce proper QBs perhaps with both a developmental league like the NBA has with the Westchester Knicks and other teams in the lower level league or Baseball’s AAA.  Plus somehow QBs should not be thrown into the fire so quickly before they are ready. I know that is a team thing but the NFL can say provide draft comp picks for teams to redshirt QBs for their 1st year. Wouldn’t that seem more important than giving draft picks for teams hiring coaches from other teams?. I think the NFL has a worse problem with developing good long term QBs then it has getting coaches hired. Outside of Mahomes who is the last QB to be real successful once teams get some film for about 16 games or so on a QB and then when the game planning on them occurs they struggle.

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21 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

—The NFL invites the nerds in. Analytics tells teams that a six yard pass on first down is better than a four yard run on first down

—Brady Pats win Super Bowls throwing short to Edelman and Welker.

—Teams straight up abandon the power run game because of its inherent inefficiencies. Every team cuts its fullbacks
 

—Defenses catch up, invest in versatile slot corners who can play the run and hybrid LBs who can at least contribute against the pass

—Mahomes torches the league by throwing over the top of the blitz.

—Defenses respond again by playing two-high safety, but because offenses can no longer line up and run the ball there’s no way to make defenses pay for having their safeties 20 yards off the ball.

—In the meantime, owners **** themselves by using increases in salary cap to pay every viable QB $40+ mil and going cheap at IOL, TE, RB. 
 

—Because teams are so pass heavy and defenses are forcing QBs to throw short,  offenses become more predictable, DL can safely pin their ears back, OL play declines as a result, QBs get hit more and from different angles. Injuries inevitably follow.

Twas the Todd of Bowles that influenced defenses by beating the Chiefs in the SB too. 

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29 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

QB play is at an all-time low? That perception only exists because you primarily watch Jets games.

There's plenty of good QBs in this league and many of them are very young.

Mahomes is on track for GOAT status. Burrow, Allen, Hurts, Jackson, Herbert, Stroud, Rodgers are guys you love to have on your team. The next tier, Goff, Cousins, Lawrence, Prescott, Purdy, Tua can win you games. That's half the league.

I get it. Every QB the Jets trot out there for the past decade makes your football watching experience excruciating. Doesn't mean it's happening to everyone else. 

You are wrong... Since the major qbs have retired qb play has statically and visually gotten worse across the league but why let facts get in the way of a good argument. 

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10 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

 

We all know that the number of QBs in the NFL considered to be very good at their craft is at an all-time low and seemingly getting worse each year as the number of new QBs who fail to fulfill their draft status seems to be about as close to 100% as you can get. Recently, I've wondered if this could be due to a factor other than all of the QBs simply being no good. I am now beginning to believe that it is not the QBs at all. It's lazy uninspired coaches who expect these QBs to be football savants and franchise saviors projecting upon them otherworldly abilities that no QB possess in combination early in their careers and few do even later in their careers. They have this expectation of finding a ready out the box QB with a rocket arm, pinpoint accuracy, the ability to see the entire field, the ability to throw with anticipation, the ability to read a defense as well as many other qualities  on their laundry list of what it takes to be a franchise QB. While they are not silly enough to express that this is their expectation from day 1, they uniformly believe that these talents will be unearthed after 16 or so starts. With few exceptions coaches do not view QBs as a player who they need to protect by emphasizing their strengths and not exposing their weaknesses. The expectation is that they will be able to do everything. This has never been more apparent when you consider the inability of coaches given credit for "developing" a franchise QB to repeat that feat.... Cowher did it once with Ben and failed with every other QB; Bellicheat famously has failed with tons of QBs not name Brady. Noll and Bradshaw; Payton and Brees; Levy and Kelly; Johnson and Aikman; Holmgren and Favre etc etc etc. Not one of these coaches "developed" their great QB. Instead, they lucked into it. A few great coaches figure out how to get the most out of their QBs whoever they are - Gibbs, Parcells, Harbaugh (both)  and Carroll. Some even have a knack of either identifying or developing great QBs - Walsh and Reed.  But these guys are the exceptions The rest of the coaching profession is just waiting for some kid to come out of college and deliver them a SB contender by simply being an otherworldly talent. The NFL coaching fraternity needs to take a long look in the mirror and come to terms with their over-reliance on a QB from heaven delivering a winning team and accept their role in the current level of terrible QB play in the NFL today.

Some good points.  I think the whole drafting process has to get some of the blame.  Teams only have a finite number of seasons where they have control of the player before they either start him or launch him.  This means they don’t always have the luxury of sitting a player for a season or two.  And then there’s the crazy money some of these QBs (even the backups) are making. A team can only devote so much capitol into one position. Sure the qb is most important position but not if it means scrimping on receivers or oline or other skill positions.

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Coaches get too much credit and take too much criticism for QBs. Some QBs need time to learn the playbook though. But it’s ultimately on the QB.

Hack was giving the luxury to sit on the bench. He never got off it. Kellen Clemons. Bust.

Russell Wilson started as a rookie and did well. 3rd round pick. Dak 4th round pick same thing.

Trey Lance sat behind Jimmy G and had a great offensive coach. All the talent in the world and was a bust when he was named the starter. That same coach “developed” Brock Purdy.

You focused on the guys that sat and did well. But there are plenty of guys that sat and didn't. There are also guys that started right away and did well while others did not.

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9 hours ago, oatmeal said:

It’s:

-defenses playing more zone to stop the big plays from happening as often 

- OLine talent is farrrrr below DLine talent 

- A lot of QBs are overrated by the media 

I also think so many QBs leave college early, and they are just not ready for the NFL, physically or mentally.

They also get thrown into games faster.   It was once common forbplayers to sit and learn, not so much now.

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1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

You are wrong... Since the major qbs have retired qb play has statically and visually gotten worse across the league but why let facts get in the way of a good argument. 

what facts? statistically we are on pace for 14 QBs to throw of over 4,000 yards. 17 if Stafford, Cousins and Burrow werent out. last year 9 QBs did that. a rookie ( Stroud) and a 2nd year player ( Howell ) are leading the league.

this year 15 QBs are on pace for over 30 TDs. last year 4 did it. 

21 QBs complete 65% of there passes or better.

but yeah dont let things like stats which are facts get in your way. 

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37 minutes ago, chirorob said:

I also think so many QBs leave college early, and they are just not ready for the NFL, physically or mentally.

They also get thrown into games faster.   It was once common forbplayers to sit and learn, not so much now.

College schemes also aren't doing enough to prepare them for the NFL mentally. 

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2 hours ago, JetPotato said:

QB play is at an all-time low? That perception only exists because you primarily watch Jets games.

There's plenty of good QBs in this league and many of them are very young.

Mahomes is on track for GOAT status. Burrow, Allen, Hurts, Jackson, Herbert, Stroud, Rodgers are guys you love to have on your team. The next tier, Goff, Cousins, Lawrence, Prescott, Purdy, Tua can win you games. That's half the league.

I get it. Every QB the Jets trot out there for the past decade makes your football watching experience excruciating. Doesn't mean it's happening to everyone else. 

Agree with your post. But was like "wait a minute". Rodgers played four snaps for us. So, it's only been a couple of months since we haven't seen greatness at QB for the Jets.

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Just now, Larz said:

It’s a golden age for pass rushers and oline, especially backups, is nowhere near capable of dealing with it. QBs are running for their lives. If this was 1980s rules, they all would be dead 

It feels like there are more injuries now than ever before.  A lot of teams seem to have an OL in shambles and a lot of QBs are getting injured (despite all the rule changes to protect them).

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