Jump to content

Why the Pats Win Super Bowls: Part Two, by Richard Seymour


TomShane

Recommended Posts

You are absolutely right, I have had nothing to do with the Patriots massive, sustained success. Nothing to do with the dynasty. I'm not involved in the brilliant decision-making, the all-time-great winning streak, the monumental dynastic coronation, or the incredible on the field play. I have nothing to do with these amazing players who will go down in history as one of the all time great teams. I have in no way contributed to the absurdly good 34-4 stretch over the past two years, a feat unprecedented in pro-football history. I am in no way, shape, or form a factor in the Patriots awesome, longlasting success.

Good point, EB.

Excellent RS, excellent. =D>=D>=D>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 110
  • Created
  • Last Reply
note to richardseymour:

You have had nothing to do with the Patriots success the past 4 seasons

carry on........

EB50 ~ out

The bitter Jet fan will be played by EB50 tonight.

First lets dispel the myth that any fan does not contribute to their teams success. Ask the Illini if playing in front of a crowd that was 95% their fans did not help get them up for their comeback. Ask Colts fan if yelling at the top of his lungs while the other team is trying to audible does not contribute to the Colts in some way. There is areason they call it homefield advantage.

This does not even going into buying tickets, DVDs, jerseys of your team. TV does not dole out 8 billion dollars a year to the NFL because there is no one in front of the TV. Companies do not pour millions of dollars into a 30 second Superbowl commercial for the hell of it. All that money goes to the salaries that pay for my team.

You quite possibly posted the wrongest post in the history of the internet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are absolutely right, I have had nothing to do with the Patriots massive, sustained success. Nothing to do with the dynasty. I'm not involved in the brilliant decision-making, the all-time-great winning streak, the monumental dynastic coronation, or the incredible on the field play. I have nothing to do with these amazing players who will go down in history as one of the all time great teams. I have in no way contributed to the absurdly good 34-4 stretch over the past two years, a feat unprecedented in pro-football history. I am in no way, shape, or form a factor in the Patriots awesome, longlasting success.

Good point, EB.

I didn't bother to read your stupid post so I'll just say this

You act like you helped the Patriots win the 3 superbowls, like your a player or coach on the team. You're a fan, a great fan, but stop acting like a you actually had to do with the patriots dynasty. cut the sh**

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are absolutely right, I have had nothing to do with the Patriots massive, sustained success. Nothing to do with the dynasty. I'm not involved in the brilliant decision-making, the all-time-great winning streak, the monumental dynastic coronation, or the incredible on the field play. I have nothing to do with these amazing players who will go down in history as one of the all time great teams. I have in no way contributed to the absurdly good 34-4 stretch over the past two years, a feat unprecedented in pro-football history. I am in no way, shape, or form a factor in the Patriots awesome, longlasting success.

Good point, EB.

Runs end sport.

Hope you are still giving your absurdly pompous unprecedented in troll history ego a hand job when this one is over.

Do you visit the twenty five or so other fan sites that have faired much more miserably than the Jets the last 4 years to provide your infinite cut and paste from kffl wisdom?

Win with class sport. Even if you're just a fan of the run.

By the way, when will you be replacing Bradway?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Runs end sport.

Hope you are still giving your absurdly pompous unprecedented in troll history ego a hand job when this one is over.

Do you visit the twenty five or so other fan sites that have faired much more miserably than the Jets the last 4 years to provide your infinite cut and paste from kffl wisdom?

Win with class sport. Even if you're just a fan of the run.

By the way, when will you be replacing Bradway?

damn cat. you just got lit up!!rofl2.gif
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Runs end sport.

Yes they do, but it's nice to have one this good, and it ain't over till it's over.

Hope you are still giving your absurdly pompous unprecedented in troll history ego a hand job when this one is over.

My ego? Dude, I'm the guy who thought the Patriots were morons for trading a 1st round pick for some retread Jets coach. I'm the guy who was DYING for Jimmy Kennedy in the 2003 draft. I'm the guy who concluded that Pennington was better than Brady two years ago. I'm the guy who that same year did a monster post entitled "Will Brady Still be Here in 2005?" on the Pats forum where I argued that his escalating cap hit and unclutch play in late 2002 would mean that he would be a cap casualty this very offseason.

I don't for a minute think that I know all the answers. However I do know certain brands of absolute stupidity when I see them, and I call a spade a spade (Mawae is dirty but I'd love him if he was on my team, Matt Light and Richard Seymour both had weak years last year, Pennington's 2002 season was one of the top 10 for any QB in the last 4 years, IMO.)

Do you visit the twenty five or so other fan sites that have faired much more miserably than the Jets the last 4 years to provide your infinite cut and paste from kffl wisdom?

Win with class sport. Even if you're just a fan of the run.

1) I really started following the Pats when I was 9 years old. Go and look it up and see how the team was doing back then in 1990.

2) I love that this is the best dis people can come up with. I cut and paste some of my own arguments from KFFL to here (or in some cases vice versa)? Wow, what a dick thing to do... particularly since most of that was back in the early days of JN when this forum desperately needed an infusion of real football threads.

By the way, when will you be replacing Bradway?

Any time I get the phone call. As long as I have two months lead time with access to everything Bradway does (Tannenbaum, scouting reports, medical reports) and do some thorough due diligence I have a very decent shot at doing a better job than him.

So does YoungJetsFan. So does PFSIKH. So does Green Jets, so does Husker'sSheep fer chrissakes. If Bradway is the standard, half the people on this board could make stupid cap decisions, lose free agents they were courting left and right, keep old players and bad contracts too long, draft poorly, and overall mismanage a team with some solid talent.

That's obviously hyperbole, to some degree. Bradway's reign hasn't been a total trainwreck.... but if GMs were graded on a golf grade, Bradway would be a solid bogey. Not the end of the world, but not what you're looking for either.

If people want to defend him as mediocre, go ahead, you can at least make the argument. If you're satisfied with mediocrity then good, I'm satisfied with you guys being mediocre too.

If you want to defend Bradway and claim he's actually good, I'm all ears, and I look forward to cutting you to ribbons on whatever lame assertions you come up with on his account.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't bother to read your stupid post so I'll just say this

You act like you helped the Patriots win the 3 superbowls, like your a player or coach on the team. You're a fan, a great fan, but stop acting like a you actually had to do with the patriots dynasty. cut the sh**

Again Eric, I agree. I didn't have anything to do with the glorious success of this historic Patriots Dynasty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's the thing Seymour, you beat up Bradway for being wrong on players yet you admit you didn't think Brady was the answer at QB.

Yet you claim you would of had better drafts?

You also hated the price to aquire BB yet now orgasm over him.

You see hindsight bravado is easy but Bradway and the rest of the NFL GM's don't have that luxury pal.

The only thing that needs to be cut to ribbons is your ego.

You could of written your article with class instead of pounding your chest and degrading the Jets organization simply because you root for the current champion.

Stating that half the population of an Internet message board could be a NFL GM is a true indication of the fantasy world you live in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's the thing Seymour, you beat up Bradway for being wrong on players yet you admit you didn't think Brady was the answer at QB.

Yet you claim you would of had better drafts?

You also hated the price to aquire BB yet now orgasm over him.

You see hindsight bravado is easy but Bradway and the rest of the NFL GM's don't have that luxury pal.

The only thing that needs to be cut to ribbons is your ego.

You could of written your article with class instead of pounding your chest and degrading the Jets organization simply because you root for the current champion.

Stating that half the population of an Internet message board could be a NFL GM is a true indication of the fantasy world you live in.

actually, only two names need to be mentioned together, well, really three: Drew Bledsoe, Mo Lewis and Tom Brady. Make it four names; Add Bill Belicheck, the man who made the right decisions after Mo did his job. And Mo was doing his job...for the Jets.

No GM abilities needed. Just observations and astute

deductions. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's the thing Seymour, you beat up Bradway for being wrong on players yet you admit you didn't think Brady was the answer at QB.

Yet you claim you would of had better drafts?

You also hated the price to aquire BB yet now orgasm over him.

You see hindsight bravado is easy but Bradway and the rest of the NFL GM's don't have that luxury pal.

The only thing that needs to be cut to ribbons is your ego.

You could of written your article with class instead of pounding your chest and degrading the Jets organization simply because you root for the current champion.

Stating that half the population of an Internet message board could be a NFL GM is a true indication of the fantasy world you live in.

Those are fair points and all of the Jets' mistakes over the past few seasons can not be tied solely to Bradway. he was in a less then envious position when Par$ells took off and left the Jets with some cap burden.

With that being said, the team has lacked leadership or a general direction it is moving in. I will not knock Bradway for any picks he has made, but Chad and Lamont situations ask WTF is going on. I understand not starting Chad or Lamont as a rookies.

However, why did Chad sit for 36 games before finally getting handed the job when all was seemed to be lost. It is not like he was replacing Joe Montana. VT threw 36 TDs and 39 INTs his last two full years as a starter. Was Chad that bad in the preseason not to warrant a shot? While Lamont was replacing a productive, but aging RB why draft him in the first place? Was he that horrible in preseason and limited action not to get a shot?

If Bradway is the true leader of the franchise, he needs to have a plan. There appears to be no plan until the proverbial $hit hits the fan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's the thing Seymour, you beat up Bradway for being wrong on players yet you admit you didn't think Brady was the answer at QB.

Yet you claim you would of had better drafts?

I beat up Bradway for making stupid mistakes that I second guessed AT THE TIME. We're not talking hindsight here.

And put the best 15 names on the board in a hat for each draft pick over the last several years and pick blind. Chances are you'll do as well or better than Bradway.

Putting aside the 2004 draft about which everyone here is still understandbly optimistic (one year being to early to start dismissing players who haven't produced, and understanding that Vilma is unquestionably a hit)

1+1+4. DT DeWayne Robertson

2. LB Victor Hobson

3. RB BJ Askew

5. DB Derek Pagel

5. DE Matthew Walters

6. QB Brooks Bollinger

7. OT Dave Yovanovits

1. DE Bryan Thomas

2. DB Jon McGraw

3. TE Chris Baker

4. DT Alan Harper

5. OG Jonathan Goodwin

1. WR Santana Moss

2. RB LaMont Jordan

3. RT Kareem McKenzie

4. DB Jamie Henderson

7. DT James Reed

7. OT Situpe Peko

I see three good value picks in there, one of whom the Jets just traded as fast as they could, one of which never got a starters shot and is now leaving in FA, and one of which worked out ideally (IMO you can't blame Bradway for McKenzie's departure. McKenzie did everything you could have hoped for, and Bradway did the right thing by not acceding to the Poston's demands. K-Mac was easilly Bradway's best pick.)

All three of these guys were in Bradway's first draft as a GM, IIRC (my understanding was that Parcells had a heavy hand in the 2000 draft. If that was pure Bradway than kudos to him for excellent use of the 4 1st round picks, 3 huge hits and 1 bust is a very good result).

Bradway has consistantly struggled at finding significant value in the later rounds (even the best GMs have more misses than hits in rounds 3 and beyond, but Bradway has virtually no major hits, only a few "adequate" picks like Chris Baker). He has demonstrated the ability to use a top 12 draft pick properly, in both cases acquiring good players, however one of those involved a stupid tradeup.

Yes, I think his draft history is pretty bad. Not Cleveland bad, but CERTAINLY not good. Again, there's an argument to made that he's mediocre, but if that's your argument you might want to stop and consider why you're defending Bradway.

You also hated the price to aquire BB yet now orgasm over him.

You see hindsight bravado is easy but Bradway and the rest of the NFL GM's don't have that luxury pal.

Again, most of my criticisms of Bradway are based on thensight. I ripped the tradeup for D-Rob from the start (prior to the draft I dropped a mega-post on JI saying that the tradeup was stupid and that while many jets fans were worrying Belichick would trade with Detroit and "steal" D-Rob, I was terrified at the idea and hoped to god the Pats didn't do anything that dumb. Of course they didn't....) I've never been a fan of the Byron Thomas pick (though he's developed enough to where it's tough to use the "bust" label.... but certainly not good value, or a great decision by Bradway).... I criticized the Pennington extension and the Barrett contract immediately.

This isn't just me cherrypicking stuff to lambaste the guy for. His record as a whole amply demonstrates his incompetence.

The only thing that needs to be cut to ribbons is your ego.

You could of written your article with class

Obviously you weren't around JI in 2003 when I showed up there, or you wouldn't be expecting class.

Moreover I wrote the article with an acid tongue but a sincere one. I was not gloating or boasting. I was merely attempting to portray things in a harsh light and if I shattered your delicate sensibilities, good.

instead of pounding your chest and degrading the Jets organization simply because you root for the current champion.

Stating that half the population of an Internet message board could be a NFL GM is a true indication of the fantasy world you live in.

I didn't say half the board would do a good job of it. Heck, ANYONE here could be an NFL GM with a few months lead time. Most would botch it though, many as badly as Bradway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

seymour,

you are way off base on your criticism of the jets. in the last 15 years jet fans have lived through debacle after debacle with the FO and CS (kotite, carrol, coslet, groh, blair thomas, browning nagle, etc...). we finally have a franchise that has a good young core of talent and is heading in the right direction.

the pats have been enjoying an unusually long run of success that is a combination of luck and skill. yes, luck has a lot to do with it don't forget that. the jets are getting better and for us fans that are not used to seeing our team play in january this is improvement. both bradway and herm are getting better and i wouldn't be surprised to see them overtake the pats this year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

seymour,

you are way off base on your criticism of the jets. in the last 15 years jet fans have lived through debacle after debacle with the FO and CS (kotite, carrol, coslet, groh, blair thomas, browning nagle, etc...). we finally have a franchise that has a good young core of talent and is heading in the right direction.

the pats have been enjoying an unusually long run of success that is a combination of luck and skill. yes, luck has a lot to do with it don't forget that. the jets are getting better and for us fans that are not used to seeing our team play in january this is improvement. both bradway and herm are getting better and i wouldn't be surprised to see them overtake the pats this year.

No one questions Jets' fans loyalty to their team. All things being equal, you deserve more success.

You are 100% correct that the Jets have a young core in place. The only thing that could delay or prevent the Jets from being contenders is Curtis starting to regress and Herm. I am not so sure Herm is getting any better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Patriots have become The New York Yankees of football. They are the symbol of excellence in their sport. The same way, The Yanks are the symbol of excellence in all of sports.

Bill Belichick is Joe Torre.

Tom Brady is Derek Jeter.

Scott Pioli is Brian Cashman.

Their fans are acting just like Yankee fans. As much as I love The Yanks and their fans. We are a bunch of arrogant and pompous jerks who talk down to everyone else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Patriots have become The New York Yankees of football. They are the symbol of excellence in their sport. The same way, The Yanks are the symbol of excellence in all of sports.

Bill Belichick is Joe Torre.

Tom Brady is Derek Jeter.

Scott Pioli is Brian Cashman.

Their fans are acting just like Yankee fans. As much as I love The Yanks and their fans. We are a bunch of arrogant and pompous jerks who talk down to everyone else.

All four of those comparisons are disservices to the Patriots side of the equation. By a very wide margin too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All four of those comparisons are disservices to the Patriots side of the equation. By a very wide margin too.

OH REALLY? You don't see the similarities.

Jeter is the best big game player and leader in all of baseball. Doesn't have the flashy stats like others at his position do. Jeter is a marquee idol. One of the most marketable players in sports.

Does that sound like Tom Brady just a tad?

Remember The NoMar vs Jeter argument. Nomar had the better stats.... Just like Peyton has over Brady.... Bottom line who would you rather have? Jeter...case closed.

Belichick is better than Torre but they have the same amount of championships. Both guys were not winners before they came into the right situations. Both were considered retreads. There are some similarities here.

Pioli vs Cashman... Both are young. Both have won multiple championships.

I didn't include Gene "Stick" Michael in this equation because Michael is one of the greatest scouts and judges of talent in baseball history. He deserves most of the credit for The Yankees run.

Bob Kraft and Steinbrenner are both great owners. George is an obsessive fan who truly cares about winning more than making money. The two owners could not be any more different though personality wise.

If you are going to compare the legacy of The Yankees vs The legacy of The Pats. New England loses hands down. No sports franchise can even compete with The Yanks. That's not even a debate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All four of those comparisons are disservices to the Patriots side of the equation. By a very wide margin too.

I disagree. I think those are decent comparisions. Look, the difference can be summed up in these differences:

- The Patriots draft well. The Jets have not had the greatest drafts over the last 5 years. Not terrible though.

- Coaching. No one here will even try to compare Herm vs. Belichick. That said, Herm is a great rah-rah guy and he can certainly fire up the troops. Belichick is a game planner and it pays off in how well prepared his teams are when they play great teams. Even filler guys seem to perform at a high level for us.

- Brady & the whole "Selfless team" concept. Once the team finally believed it, they seemed to play better. Guys were accountable. No one was shooting their mouths off more more playing time (ie. Jordan.) Now, I realize this is hard to keep up, but it ruins teams from the inside out when guys are playing for 'me'.

- Parcells f'd you guys. Yeah he f'd us to, but we had more time to get over it.I think Penny started a year too late. Getting rid of Coles hurt his development too.

I think the Jets have the best chance to win the Super Bowl since '98 this season. I for one think quite highly of Penny, but I still have doubts about your coaching in clutch situations.

As a Pats fan of many years, I feel no need to boast brag or flaunt. I know this comes off as crass. Conversley, it has become "oh-so-fashionable-and-trendy" to bash the Pats. That to me is just as bad.

DW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bill Belichick is Joe Torre.

No, he's not. He built that team himself (shares at least half the credit with Scott Pioli), he makes smarter game decisions, and he coaches in a sport where the head coach is far more important.

Torre is a personable guy who does a good job of managing the clubhouse. He's a guy who generally speaking won't lose his team the game with Gradyesque bungling. He's a very good manager who could run my baseball team any day.

Belichick is not a quarter as personable as Joe Toree or a tenth as capable with the media. He manages his team primarily by inculcating ethics and values, something Torre does to a degree but nowhere near the extenet Belichick does.

He also schemes. He's the architect of the team's personnel goals, the broad strokes of the offense (Weis executed the particulars but this offense was built in the mold BB wanted it to be.), and just about every aspect of the defense in conjunction with RAC. Belichick has two game plans in the hall of fame. Torre has a couple of lineup cards.

It's a disservice to Torre to compare the two, since the odds are stacked against any baseball coach when compared with a football coach, but you're the one who decided to tread down this ill-advised path.

Torre enjoys the advantage of the most expensive roster in the league, and the knowledge that in any given offseason all of his major holes will be plugged with the very best free agents money can buy. In the 90s this was true to a significantly lesser extent, but was still a reality. Moreover the core of homegrown players that set the Yankees dynasty (1996-2000, RIP) rolling was all set for Torre's arrival. Belichick received what was universally considered a very modest dowry in his arrival to New England, made numerous smart decisions to augment it, and has reaped the rewards.

Truly, the comparison is entirely inappropriate. The only similarities the two men have are craggy faces, laconic speaking styles, and the fact that they coach championship teams. You might as well compare Phil Jackson to Joe Torre or Terry Francona to Brian Billick while you're at it.

Tom Brady is Derek Jeter.

Bwahahahaha. One is the definitive clutch player of this generation, a guy who has an unvarnished record of postseason success, and not only one of the best players at his position, but one of the best players overall in his sport.

The other is an overrated shortstop with weak defensive skills and a knack for failing in the clutch (oh yes I did.). Though last year you can at least say that he was definitely better than Nomar (who despite his decline in hitting post-Al-Reyes had a very reasonable claim to superiority until his defense dropped through the basement last year, and became even worse than Jeters).

Scott Pioli is Brian Cashman.

Hmmm, lets see.... how does Cashman rank on the Pioli scale (though really, it's hard to seperate Pioli from Belichick in the New England FO so they are best considered as Bioli)

Great drafts?

Uh, no.

Effective use of limited resources?

Uh, no.

Resigns own players to smart, efficient contracts?

Uh, no.

Works with a budget equal to every other team in the league?

:roll:

God no.

Talent for finding bargain FAs?

Uh, no.

Again, really the only thing these guys have in common is that they have overseen many GM duties for championship winning teams. I'll give Cashman some huge props for being able to put up with Steinbrenner and keep his job with George constantly eying the butcher's block. The man has survival down cold, and soundly beats Pioli in that respect.

Otherwise, edge Pioli.

As much as I love The Yanks and their fans. We are a bunch of arrogant and pompous jerks who talk down to everyone else.

Well, at least we agree on something.

The problem with Yankees fans is that they are insufferable, elitist, and enjoy rubbing other fanbases noses in things that happened before they were born.

If it weren't for financial disparities I could't blame Yankees fans for being proud of their team and expressing its superiority circa '99 when it was simple fact. If the Yankees had been spending just as much money as the other MLB teams and in '99 a Yankees fan had written an article entitled "Why the Yankees win (and why you don't)" I might have burned a little but the premise would have been a sound one, and the details would have been bitter but probably mostly true.

Patriots fans are revelling in their teams current success and enjoying the fact that it is clearly at the top of the league. I don't think any of us would try and make the argument right now that the Patriots are the NFL's all time greatest team (or that we're second place). Our pride and scorn is rooted thoroughly in immediate fact.

So as you can see, YJF, your comparisons were really entirely inappropriate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RS, it's funny how you call Santana Moss a value pick whenever we traded up to get him. Moss isn't half the player that Robertson is.

You guys rag on the Jets for over-paying for Robinson, but would the team be better off had we kept those picks and gotten, say Boss Bailey and Taylor Jacobs? The answer is obviously a resounding NO.

It isn't like we gave up two firsts in the 2004 draft. The 2003 draft was exceptionally weak in the mid to last first round.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tom Brady is Derek Jeter.

Bwahahahaha. One is the definitive clutch player of this generation, a guy who has an unvarnished record of postseason success, and not only one of the best players at his position, but one of the best players overall in his sport.

The other is an overrated shortstop with weak defensive skills and a knack for failing in the clutch (oh yes I did.). Though last year you can at least say that he was definitely better than Nomar (who despite his decline in hitting post-Al-Reyes had a very reasonable claim to superiority until his defense dropped through the basement last year, and became even worse than Jeters).

stick to football guy. or put your NE/boston pom poms down long enough to type your posts.

headerImagea.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RS, it's funny how you call Santana Moss a value pick whenever we traded up to get him. Moss isn't half the player that Robertson is.

I was doing my best to generous to Bradway.

I should have listed Moss as 1+4+6, which would certainly drop him out of "value" range, IMO.

D-Rob is NOT a bust and is turning into a fine player, but at the #4 position in the draft you expect a fine player. D-Rob is not an elite player which is what it takes to be "value" in the top 6/when you trade 1+1+4.

You guys rag on the Jets for over-paying for Robinson, but would the team be better off had we kept those picks and gotten, say Boss Bailey and Taylor Jacobs? The answer is obviously a resounding NO.

For the 1st rounders at least a fair guess would have been...

One of: DT Ty Warren, S Troy Polamalu, WR Bryant Johnson, T Jeff Foster, C Jeff Faine (Those were the remaining next 9 drafted at or after 13, excluding DEs who I doubt you would have drafted)

One of: RB TE Dallas Clark, DT William Joseph, T Kwame Harris, CB Andre Woolfolk, LB Nick Barnett, CB Sammy Davis (The same as before, assuming you wouldn't have drafted RBs or QBs).

The best value/need guess would be one of DT Warren and S Polamalu (the next two non-DE players drafted at or after 13) and one of TE Clark and DT Joseph (the next two non-QB/RB players drafted at or after 22).

The 4th rounder is pretty hard to guess at.

Perhaps trading up was a good idea since Bradway could have been trusted to blow those picks and at least got something by taking D-Rob...

It isn't like we gave up two firsts in the 2004 draft. The 2003 draft was exceptionally weak in the mid to last first round.

I don't think you would have done too poorly to take Ty Warren and Dallas Clark, or Troy Polamalu and Nick Barnett (in both cases paying both players combined less than you pay D-Rob, saving money on the cap, and keeping a 4th). It wasn't a sea of garbage, and as Belichick showed, there were trade down opportunities as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

idiot

JETER WON THE GOLD GLOVE

He is by far the best SS in MLB, I know your jealous, get over it already. You rely way too much on stats, and if you do so much, you can say that brady isn't even a top 10 QB. Obviously, thats not true if you actually watch games. You obviously do not watch yankee games on a daily basis so just shut your stupid mouth you pompous knowitall a**

get your sh** straight homer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a difference EB. You can only judge a modest to small portion of what a guy does in football on stats. For QBs, where there are more stats than any other position and largish sample sizes, stats might give you a modest read on a player.

In baseball, the right stats properly assessed can tellyou 90% of what you need to know about a guy.

Moreover, football is a team game based on complex linkages of players. Baseball is, except for defense (and that to a modest extent) almost entirely a game of individuals and individual success or failure.

I think Hockey players, Basketball players, and Football players have to be looked at subjectively, in the context of a great many things. I think that baseball players can be judged to an amazing extent objectively with sufficiently advanced statistics.

Jeter is a great hitting shortstop and certainly one of the top 5 SS's of this era for the offense he brings to that position and his speed on the basepaths. The problem is when people try to go beyond that.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

get your sh** straight homer

I couldn't have said it any better myself.

Only, I wouldn't be referring to RS, I'd be referring to you, EB. Jeter the best SS in baseball? That's debateable 5 years ago, but now, Jeter MIGHT crack the top five. Guys like Miguel Tejada, Michael Young, Edgar Renteria are all better than Jeter. Jeter winning the Gold Glove was a joke. He has no shot in hell of repeating that feat this year with Renteria in the AL.

RS, you forget that Dewayne Robertson is TWENTY-THREE years old. As a 21-year old, you expected him to come right in and dominate? Last year, he showed a ton of flashes as to why we moved up to pick him. Robertson is entering his third season and will be the same age as some of the rookies that are about to enter in the league next month. Is he elite now? No...but he's 23 years old, will he be elite two years from now? Yes, I believe he will.

Of those players you list, only two intrigue me: Polamolu and Dallas Clark. However, Clark is never going to be the best tight end in the league and defensive tackle is FAR more important than safety. I'd rather have a guy who could eventually be #1 at his position than a top ten tight end and a safety with lady-like hair.

Bradway has f!cked up a whole bunch, but Dewayne Robertson wasn't one of those times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I couldn't have said it any better myself.

Only, I wouldn't be referring to RS, I'd be referring to you, EB. Jeter the best SS in baseball? That's debateable 5 years ago, but now, Jeter MIGHT crack the top five. Guys like Miguel Tejada, Michael Young, Edgar Renteria are all better than Jeter. Jeter winning the Gold Glove was a joke. He has no shot in hell of repeating that feat this year with Renteria in the AL.

RS, you forget that Dewayne Robertson is TWENTY-THREE years old. As a 21-year old, you expected him to come right in and dominate? Last year, he showed a ton of flashes as to why we moved up to pick him. Robertson is entering his third season and will be the same age as some of the rookies that are about to enter in the league next month. Is he elite now? No...but he's 23 years old, will he be elite two years from now? Yes, I believe he will.

Of those players you list, only two intrigue me: Polamolu and Dallas Clark. However, Clark is never going to be the best tight end in the league and defensive tackle is FAR more important than safety. I'd rather have a guy who could eventually be #1 at his position than a top ten tight end and a safety with lady-like hair.

Bradway has f!cked up a whole bunch, but Dewayne Robertson wasn't one of those times.

That, my friends, is a quality post. Can't put it any better than that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I couldn't have said it any better myself.

Only, I wouldn't be referring to RS, I'd be referring to you, EB. Jeter the best SS in baseball? That's debateable 5 years ago, but now, Jeter MIGHT crack the top five. Guys like Miguel Tejada, Michael Young, Edgar Renteria are all better than Jeter. Jeter winning the Gold Glove was a joke. He has no shot in hell of repeating that feat this year with Renteria in the AL.

=D>

RS, you forget that Dewayne Robertson is TWENTY-THREE years old. As a 21-year old, you expected him to come right in and dominate? Last year, he showed a ton of flashes as to why we moved up to pick him. Robertson is entering his third season and will be the same age as some of the rookies that are about to enter in the league next month. Is he elite now? No...but he's 23 years old, will he be elite two years from now? Yes, I believe he will.

I definitely think the window where it seemed Robertson might be an out and out bust has closed. He's a good young defensive tackle who has a solid shot at being a star, and a small but significant shot at superstardom.

OTOH, and perhaps I'm spoiled, I can't help but notice that Seymour had a great (hugely underrated, he was IMO *THE* catalyst for our defenses transformation) rookie season, a pro-bowl sophmore effort, and before and particularly after his third season he was regarded as one of the top 2 or 3 DTs in the league, with many arguing him as the #1.

Of course several other fine DTs from that 2001 class developed a little more slowly and have turned out nicely. Certainly Robertson may vault himself into the upper ecehelon soon.... but two years in the value has been poor, PARTICULARLY if you consider the financial aspect.

Again, I have few quibbles with the Robertson pick once the Jets were at 4, I just question the wisdom of moving up that far for him in the first place, and I don't feel that Bradway got good value.

Of those players you list, only two intrigue me: Polamolu and Dallas Clark. However, Clark is never going to be the best tight end in the league and defensive tackle is FAR more important than safety. I'd rather have a guy who could eventually be #1 at his position than a top ten tight end and a safety with lady-like hair.

Bradway has f!cked up a whole bunch, but Dewayne Robertson wasn't one of those times.

Ty Warren should intrigue you.

Saying a guy "could be #1 at his position" is a pretty wispy claim. You could say the same for lots of guys.

Robertson is two years in and is still behind several other quality DTs who are also quite young. He's a good DT who has a solid chance at being a great DT for awhile. To say he "could be #1" while technically true is misleading.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I definitely think the window where it seemed Robertson might be an out and out bust has closed. He's a good young defensive tackle who has a solid shot at being a star, and a small but significant shot at superstardom.

OTOH, and perhaps I'm spoiled, I can't help but notice that Seymour had a great (hugely underrated, he was IMO *THE* catalyst for our defenses transformation) rookie season, a pro-bowl sophmore effort, and before and particularly after his third season he was regarded as one of the top 2 or 3 DTs in the league, with many arguing him as the #1.

Of course several other fine DTs from that 2001 class developed a little more slowly and have turned out nicely. Certainly Robertson may vault himself into the upper ecehelon soon.... but two years in the value has been poor, PARTICULARLY if you consider the financial aspect.

Again, I have few quibbles with the Robertson pick once the Jets were at 4, I just question the wisdom of moving up that far for him in the first place, and I don't feel that Bradway got good value.

The Jets had to move up to 4 to snag Robertson. The poor Saints moved up to #6 in order to draft Jonathan Sullivan, who is without question, currently the biggest bust from that draft. The 2003 draft was amazingly weak. This was a draft that had guys like Calvin Pace, Bryant Johnson, Kyle Boller, and William Joseph selected in the first round, not to mention a Penn State running back (Larry Johnson) and a guy with one leg (McGahee). Kevin Williams is the only defensive tackle that has performed better than D-Rob thus far, but how good is their run defense? Getting 10 sacks a year means nothing unless you can stop the run. If you look at the first round that year, it was the year of the defensive tackle, which happened to be a huge need for the Jets. Better we move up and get the top defensive tackle than wait for William Joseph or Jimmy Kennedy to fall into our laps.

Ty Warren should intrigue you.

Saying a guy "could be #1 at his position" is a pretty wispy claim. You could say the same for lots of guys.

Robertson is two years in and is still behind several other quality DTs who are also quite young. He's a good DT who has a solid chance at being a great DT for awhile. To say he "could be #1" while technically true is misleading.

Ty Warren is a nice player. That's it. He doesn't have the potential to do what Robertson can do. I credit the Pats for plucking a good player in Warren and not making a mistake like every team that drafted a DT not named Robertson or Williams did.

My object wasn't to mislead with that statement. Robertson has the potential to be amazing and go on to have a better career than any other defensive player in that draft. You look at that draft two years removed from it and who has the best defensive player been? Kevin Williams, a guy two years older than D-Rob. The second best has been Robertson. Robertson may never average ten sacks a season, but how many defensive tackles do? Their job is to stuff the run and put pressure on the quarterback, both of which D-Rob is becomming a master of. And I know you'll say that with all we gave up to get him, he should do more than that. Well, what exactly would you say about the Saints, who gave up a ton of picks to move up to select a guy who plays the same position as D-Rob (and went just two picks later) and has done nothing noteworty in his first two seasons besides sneaking into the press box before a game to eat hamburgers?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why am I not surprised that RS and other Pats fans agreed with me when I took a shot at the arrogance of Yankee fans but disagreed when I stated something positive about them.....

Typical........ Just Typical................

You should be honored to even be included in the conversation when talking about The Yankees.

Before this Brady/Belichick run. You guys were The Arizona Cardinals. With Scott Zolak lobbing passes to Hart Lee Dykes and Marvin Allen fumbling...LOL

Oh how I long for those days now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why am I not surprised that RS and other Pats fans agreed with me when I took a shot at the arrogance of Yankee fans but disagreed when I stated something positive about them.....

Typical........ Just Typical................

You should be honored to even be included in the conversation when talking about The Yankees.

Before this Brady/Belichick run. You guys were The Arizona Cardinals. With Scott Zolak lobbing passes to Hart Lee Dykes and Marvin Allen fumbling...LOL

Oh how I long for those days now.

Hardly, YJF.

Before the Patriots' dynastic run, the Patriots were more like the Vikings with a slightly worse record. We had managed to get to the championship game but were never able to win in three attempts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Jets had to move up to 4 to snag Robertson.

That doesn't mean it was the right decision.

If you look at the first round that year, it was the year of the defensive tackle, which happened to be a huge need for the Jets. Better we move up and get the top defensive tackle than wait for William Joseph or Jimmy Kennedy to fall into our laps.

Better still you don't overpay like that unless you are **** sure you are getting an uber-elite, Richard Seymour, Warren Sapp type player.

D-Rob is developing into a nice little player, but I know Richard Seymour, Richard Seymour is a favorite player of mine, and DeWayne Robertson, sir, is no Richard Seymour.

Ty Warren is a nice player. That's it. He doesn't have the potential to do what Robertson can do.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...