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The Day After the Suck/Clear light of day/Where do we go from here post


T0mShane

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Look

seriously this embarrassment is what we need. We have to be in playing percentages mode. The odds of a 24 - 53 GM basically given one shot to make this team a legitimate SB contender with a 4O year old QB with one achilles is super low.

Lets be a smart org for once and play the percentages and cut bait now in a strong QB draft class and let the new regime try and save this core while we still have them gor the cheap.

Rodgers can stay and groom the kid if he likes but if he whines, let him leave and sign a vet.

This is not rocket science NYJ 🙄

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If woody has any any balls he fired both Saleh and JD. If Rodgers doesn’t like it, he can walk to. We can’t be held hostage forever by a guy who has maybe 1-2 years in the tank for us. Saleh is a terrible HC. JD Lazard signing was it for me with him as well. Bye bye. 
 

Woody, do it! 

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Or, ride it out for another year:

Excellent post.  I think this is what they will do as well.   And it could cost years to recover (eg. trading/extending for more of Rodgers friends like Davante and/or the Packers LT who is always hurt).

The middle ground would be to ride it out with some long term thinking.  Draft a QB to develop behind Rodgers for a year or so. Don't sign or trade for old players that will inhibit the jets ability to extend their own talent in the future.

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Ben Johnson or Jim Harbaugh would be incredible, but they’ll have their pick of the litter and will want nothing to do with us. God forbid Woody pay up to hire an adult. 

These clowns are gonna run it back. I don’t think anyone is getting fired. 

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52 minutes ago, Same Old Jets said:

The whole thing bear down in two principles: one, not having a valid back-up QB, but I truly believe that AR influenced the management to stick with Wilson, because of course, he was expecting to play the season. Zach Wilson should have been redshirted regardless.  Secondly, not addressing the OL during the offseason. Selecting a DE on round 1 was total neglect on JD.  

Joe Douglas is the main person to blame. He did not provided an adequate OL and backup QB to the coach and team.  He is the main cause of this team's failure. 

tbf mcdonald looks like he has nice potential 

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10 minutes ago, Barton said:

When you have a guy like Rodgers at QB, you roll the dice and bring him back IMO. 

Saleh I would consider canning. Keep Ulbrich for the defense. 

Harbaugh would never work for Woody without total control.  i.e, Woody... stay out of the locker room and i do NOT answer to you.

Harbaugh has been a terrific player and coach. Woody wouldn't hire him.

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I would go scorched earth. Dump the coaching staff. Dump the front office. Dump Rodgers.

Then bring in a coach from the Andy Reid coaching tree. Someone who knows how to work with young QBs 

Then I use EVERY DRAFT PICK on a QB. That's right. Every f*cking one of them. Let the best ones stick, and trade away the rest in the summer. Enough is enough. You find a QB, and everything else will sort itself out.

 

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Assuming the rest of this season plays out the way it’s looking, I’d probably clean house and then let Rodgers decide if he still wants to return. 
 

But, I don’t think they are dumping anyone above positional coach, so we likely get at least one year of Rodgers, Hackett, and Douglas.

My best guess is that, unless Rodgers is elite again at age 40, this regime is going nowhere and everyone will be fired after 2024. 

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18 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

I would go scorched earth. Dump the coaching staff. Dump the front office. Dump Rodgers.

Then bring in a coach from the Andy Reid coaching tree. Someone who knows how to work with young QBs 

Then I use EVERY DRAFT PICK on QBs. That's right. Every f*cking one of them. Let the best ones stick, and trade away the rest in the summer. Enough is enough. You find a QB, and everything else will sort itself out.

 

Unless you fix the OL QB doesn't matter

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good post 
 

Aaron Rodgers should not be made into a pariah - he is not. The Jets pursued Rodgers. Having people he is comfortable with playing offense and helping with the transition is logical and smart - it’s a problem if he gets injured - voila. 
 

The only choice is now is to delay the Rodgers experiment one year. Rodgers WILL not be back this year

The Jets have learned a valuable lesson

- cut Boyle

- cut Turner

- cut Cobb

reinvest in OL and WR. They have to upgrade the OL. 

Invest in a veteran backup QB

Zach Wilson ?

Rodgers is easily the best option short term for the Jets. It stabilizes the franchise and avoids a potential hemorrhage of talent and still provides an attraction for free agents. 
 

Longterm it allows another year potentially two years to find their QB

 

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17 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Well said, I recently did my mid-season mock offseason and chose the 2nd path you laid out. We can make north of $62m of cap space.

 

 

WOW let a 24 - 54 GM spend 62 mill for a shot in the dark with a 40 year old QB 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

You do realize the teams in the afc with younger more talented QBs will improve too right ? 
 

Doing this will set us back for years to come and all you will be regretting the shortsightedness 

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I don't think there's any choice for this franchise, but to run it back with the entire CS.  There's no way we're moving on from AR8 (after the money Woody spent on him, what we traded to get him and how much he was hyped) so I look at that as the one given.  Based on that, let's look at scenarios:

1) Fire Saleh but keep JD: 

It'll be no secret that JD's seat will be red hot next year so what caliber of HC is going to want to step into a situation where the franchise could very easily clean house the year after he gets hired?

2) Fire JD but keep Saleh:

Now you're back to the structure of both HC and GM reporting to Woody?  Or you're limiting yourself to a GM who likes Saleh and would've hired him anyway?   But what if next year goes bad again?  Woody is going to want to fire Saleh.  But the GM liked Saleh.  So now what?

3) Fire both Saleh and JD:

So you're firing the HC and the GM but I guess keeping Nate Hackett and AR8?  Why would AR8 want "starting over" in his age 40 season, when he came here in the first place to try to win a SB?  And wouldn't there be dual lines of leadership on the team?  The "new GM and new HC" line and the "AR8/Hackett" line?  That would be absurd.

 

None of the above options make much sense, imo. 

OTOH, it would be crazy if the Jets ended the season with 10 straight losses (I don't think they will but who knows) yet brought everyone back.  Next season would have the potential to be incredibly ugly if things went south again.  It would be like "after that complete disaster last year, you idiots brought everyone back and they stunk again.  The fans had to sit through this debacle and now we have to fire everyone and start all over, which we should've done last year!"

The Jets are between a rock and a hard place.  I think they're going to bring everyone back.  They'd absolutely better win though or I think the negativity level of the fans will reach new extremes.  

EDIT: Even though I wrote the above post, I can't imagine Woody bringing everyone back and trying to sell that to the fans.  I'm almost morbidly fascinated to see what will happen if we lose 10 in a row to end the season.

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If I'm JD, I'd look to trade defensive players for draft picks (like 1st or 2nd rounders) that I'd use to take nothing but offense.  Or defensive players for offensive players if there was a good match (which it feels like is rarely the case in the NFL). 

Also, I'd make it a priority in these trades to try to acquire extra draft capital in future drafts.  Either that or trade down with 1-2 picks that I acquired in these trades for picks in future years.  Why?  Because I think the only way the Jets are going to stop this pathetic cycle of losing/embarrassing football is to constantly have extra resources  at their disposal (like BB did back in the day).  I'd make it an organization policy that there should never be a year where the Jets are missing a pick in the top 3 rounds.

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2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Obviously, that was terrible, the season is over, and the defense is letting go of the rope. We are on a four game losing streak, no one in a position of authority has any answers, and this all came after they excised the pustule that was Zach Wilson from our lives. Perhaps a thread about thoughts and possible solutions moving forward:

1. It’s highly interesting that they’ve benched Lazard, publicly calling him out for dogging it, and they’ve likewise put Cobb on the shelf. Both are obviously Rodgers’ guys, and icing them in front of Rodgers is an acknowledgment that Douglas and Saleh have ****ed up in giving Rodgers control of the organization. The benching of Zach looks like it came in defiance of Rodgers too. If that’s truly the case and they’re past the honeymoon stage with Rodgers…

2. End any speculation that Rodgers will be allowed to play again this year. It’s simply not in anyone’s best interest to let it happen, and Douglas and Saleh need to stop letting Rodgers hold them hostage for some moonshot recovery vanity project. It was unfair to Zach Wilson to hold it over his head, and it’ll be unfair for everyone else down the stretch here. The MetLife turf is effectively quicksand right now, and they’re going to be forced to replace it in the offseason. The line isn’t great, and Rodgers going down again in Week 17 would be the punchline of all punchlines to cap the season, and it’d be the galvanized railroad spike in the coffin of this entire administration.

3. Go ahead and send Hackett to the copy room. Is it all his fault? No. Has he been put in an impossible spot? Yep. But, he was brought here to be a sounding board for Rodgers—not an OC—and if Rodgers isn’t playing, Hackett has proven useless. There was hope that his nice-guy aesthetic could help Zach Wilson, but nothing could help Zach Wilson. (Remember when we had to fire Mike LaFleur because he was *too mean* to Zach? Good times.) The real benefit to firing Hackett—besides all the “for cause” stuff and tossing some red meat to the fanbase—it’d make plain to Rodgers that he’s been demoted to QB1 on this team and his input into personnel is no longer welcomed or necessary. What I’m doing here is agitating Rodgers to shut up or ship out.

4. If Rodgers retires or otherwise asks out, the Jets are super****ed cap wise. They’d be hit with $66 mil in dead cap in 2024. I think if they designate it a post June 1, it’d be $17mm this year and $45 mil in 2025. They’d have paid Rodgers $75 mil in cash for four snaps. Realistically, it’s unlikely Rodgers walks away because he has nowhere else to go where he’d get all that money, and from the Jets perspective, they don’t have a path to a better QB next year anyway. 
 

5.  What sucks is that, even in this lost year, there aren’t any young offensive players whom we should throw on the field down the stretch. Does anyone care about seeing what Jason Brownlee could do? Abanikanda? Carter Warren looks like an ok depth piece and Tippman looks like he can be a plus guard. Otherwise, it’s bleak and the cupboard is bare. That we’re in year five of Douglas and the only representative offensive players are Garrett Wilson, Breece Hall, and a papier mache AVT is rough. Side note: Will McDonald has shown flashes that he can be a terror off the EDGE and JSN has been deeply underwhelming in Seattle, so shh, @Beerfish


Given all that, there are two paths forward: 

Fire Douglas and Saleh, induce Rodgers to walk, take the pain in 2025, and for God’s sake replace the MetLife turf.
 

I think this is what I would do, if only for the comfort of certainty. I never liked the Saleh hiring, he strikes me as fake, and sticking him with Zach Wilson was unfair, but he mismanaged that anyway. If he felt Zach was costing him wins, he should have stuck his foot in the ground and advocated for himself and the 52 other players on the roster. Would this path be embarrassing? 100%. But, the Jets are the laughingstock of the league right now anyway. It can’t get any more embarrassing, and stringing it along into 24 and 25 is dicey. Downside is that they won’t have a QB, their cap situation will be a shambles, and nobody is going to want this job. The upside is that you already have some certainty that Saleh and Douglas are, at best, middling talents and at least one has to go, so why not get that done as soon as possible. 
 

 

Or, ride it out for another year:

This is what they will do, for better or worse. If Rodgers comes back and is a top-12(?) QB, the 2024 Jets are a playoff team *if* they can find a legitimate left tackle and supplement their skill groups and the defense can hang on to repeat what they’ve produced the last two years. You can feasibly get Davante Adams at some cost, and you can buy and draft another set of tackles. But, if Rodgers declines, the MetLife turf kills a few more guys, and the 24 Jets are a .500 squad, the Jets are again laughingstocks and, again, super****ed for the foreseeable future anyway, so what do they have to lose? 

I agree with a lot of this.  It’s a huge statement to bench the guys that rodgers recommended.  Huge.  Not that it translates to points b/c of the terrible qb play but still.

disagree with offensive guys.  It would be nice to see what izzy can do.  Same with brownlee and Gipson.  Ruckert seems like a gamer.  Warren in his 2nd game had to contend with chubb but he looks more like a RT than LT.  It’s important to see what you have in these guys. 

This team is still ready to contend in 2024 with a healthy rodgers and revamped ol.  Only question i have is what they do at qb.  Do they bring in minschew and say ok we fixed backup qb?  Or do they draft a guy in the 2nd or 3rd round and say look we’re not having a bare qb cub board again.  We’re going to invest seriously in qbs.  Is it, 2024 or nothing, or, we’re going to fix this qb thing once and for all.  

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We go nowhere.

We sell yet more of our future to back a 'run it back with Rodgers' plan in 2024, then the cycle will start again after everyone is fired.

Except the next regime will start with an empty cupboard of draft picks, and several overpaid, undermotivated, disgruntled veterans (Lazard, Adams if we get him, etc.) 

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8 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

If I'm JD, I'd look to trade defensive players for draft picks (like 1st or 2nd rounders) that I'd use to take nothing but offense.  Or defensive players for offensive players if there was a good match (which it feels like is rarely the case in the NFL). 

Also, I'd make it a priority in these trades to try to acquire extra draft capital in future drafts.  Either that or trade down with 1-2 picks that I acquired in these trades for picks in future years.  Why?  Because I think the only way the Jets are going to stop this pathetic cycle of losing/embarrassing football is to constantly have extra resources  at their disposal (like BB did back in the day).  I'd make it an organization policy that there should never be a year where the Jets are missing a pick in the top 3 rounds.

And also trading back in round 1.  Instead of just taking a LT at, say, 6 or 7, they could turn that pick into a tackle in mid round 1 and also get another day 2 pick.  I think they could trade back and get 2 OL for that one pick. 

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2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Obviously, that was terrible, the season is over, and the defense is letting go of the rope. We are on a four game losing streak, no one in a position of authority has any answers, and this all came after they excised the pustule that was Zach Wilson from our lives. Perhaps a thread about thoughts and possible solutions moving forward:

1. It’s highly interesting that they’ve benched Lazard, publicly calling him out for dogging it, and they’ve likewise put Cobb on the shelf. Both are obviously Rodgers’ guys, and icing them in front of Rodgers is an acknowledgment that Douglas and Saleh have ****ed up in giving Rodgers control of the organization. The benching of Zach looks like it came in defiance of Rodgers too. If that’s truly the case and they’re past the honeymoon stage with Rodgers…

2. End any speculation that Rodgers will be allowed to play again this year. It’s simply not in anyone’s best interest to let it happen, and Douglas and Saleh need to stop letting Rodgers hold them hostage for some moonshot recovery vanity project. It was unfair to Zach Wilson to hold it over his head, and it’ll be unfair for everyone else down the stretch here. The MetLife turf is effectively quicksand right now, and they’re going to be forced to replace it in the offseason. The line isn’t great, and Rodgers going down again in Week 17 would be the punchline of all punchlines to cap the season, and it’d be the galvanized railroad spike in the coffin of this entire administration.

3. Go ahead and send Hackett to the copy room. Is it all his fault? No. Has he been put in an impossible spot? Yep. But, he was brought here to be a sounding board for Rodgers—not an OC—and if Rodgers isn’t playing, Hackett has proven useless. There was hope that his nice-guy aesthetic could help Zach Wilson, but nothing could help Zach Wilson. (Remember when we had to fire Mike LaFleur because he was *too mean* to Zach? Good times.) The real benefit to firing Hackett—besides all the “for cause” stuff and tossing some red meat to the fanbase—it’d make plain to Rodgers that he’s been demoted to QB1 on this team and his input into personnel is no longer welcomed or necessary. What I’m doing here is agitating Rodgers to shut up or ship out.

4. If Rodgers retires or otherwise asks out, the Jets are super****ed cap wise. They’d be hit with $66 mil in dead cap in 2024. I think if they designate it a post June 1, it’d be $17mm this year and $45 mil in 2025. They’d have paid Rodgers $75 mil in cash for four snaps. Realistically, it’s unlikely Rodgers walks away because he has nowhere else to go where he’d get all that money, and from the Jets perspective, they don’t have a path to a better QB next year anyway. 
 

5.  What sucks is that, even in this lost year, there aren’t any young offensive players whom we should throw on the field down the stretch. Does anyone care about seeing what Jason Brownlee could do? Abanikanda? Carter Warren looks like an ok depth piece and Tippman looks like he can be a plus guard. Otherwise, it’s bleak and the cupboard is bare. That we’re in year five of Douglas and the only representative offensive players are Garrett Wilson, Breece Hall, and a papier mache AVT is rough. Side note: Will McDonald has shown flashes that he can be a terror off the EDGE and JSN has been deeply underwhelming in Seattle, so shh, @Beerfish


Given all that, there are two paths forward: 

Fire Douglas and Saleh, induce Rodgers to walk, take the pain in 2025, and for God’s sake replace the MetLife turf.
 

I think this is what I would do, if only for the comfort of certainty. I never liked the Saleh hiring, he strikes me as fake, and sticking him with Zach Wilson was unfair, but he mismanaged that anyway. If he felt Zach was costing him wins, he should have stuck his foot in the ground and advocated for himself and the 52 other players on the roster. Would this path be embarrassing? 100%. But, the Jets are the laughingstock of the league right now anyway. It can’t get any more embarrassing, and stringing it along into 24 and 25 is dicey. Downside is that they won’t have a QB, their cap situation will be a shambles, and nobody is going to want this job. The upside is that you already have some certainty that Saleh and Douglas are, at best, middling talents and at least one has to go, so why not get that done as soon as possible. 
 

 

Or, ride it out for another year:

This is what they will do, for better or worse. If Rodgers comes back and is a top-12(?) QB, the 2024 Jets are a playoff team *if* they can find a legitimate left tackle and supplement their skill groups and the defense can hang on to repeat what they’ve produced the last two years. You can feasibly get Davante Adams at some cost, and you can buy and draft another set of tackles. But, if Rodgers declines, the MetLife turf kills a few more guys, and the 24 Jets are a .500 squad, the Jets are again laughingstocks and, again, super****ed for the foreseeable future anyway, so what do they have to lose? 

Wow, a lot to unpack there. I won't even bother contemplating any changes for this year, because it won't happen. They get another year, unfortunately. Lets see what they do with the #1 pick next yr. If they can get a QB, do it if not trade back and get more picks. This team needs a major infusion of talent on the O side. What is ridiculous is JD possibly picking another QB. I'd like to if a GM ever got to pick a QB high in the draft, TWICE? @T0mShane

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