The OL

[Jetworks]

While most of us readily admit it's a problem (some were saying so before camp, the rash of injuries, etc), I only see it mentioned within other threads, so I figured why not start a dedicated one.

One thing I don't hear much about is the scheme. Some of you may remember that the Jets controversially hired Keith Carter after he was let go by the Titans. Another thing not mentioned a lot is how do the different players currently on roster fit into this type of scheme. In that vein, I offer up Max Mitchell as someone vastly overwhelmed within that scheme. This is spectacularly bad.

 

https://x.com/BaldyNFL/status/1728449609788227804

 

EDIT- sorry, don't know why X isn't embedding.

[jeremy2020]

Whatever happened to the savior, Pro-bowler Roger Saffold?

[JetPotato]

I said it at the time, the Carter hire was mind boggling. I mean it should be, but you remember... Jets

[football guy]

This is by far the worst offensive line I’ve ever watched. Everything about it is bad, so the coach deserves blame, but I don’t think it’s that simple. John Benton is a good OL coach but he dealt with a lot of similar issues. 

I think scheme fit for some guys is a real problem, but as I’ve said in other threads I also think it’s more so their organizational philosophy and training regiment. Saleh and Douglas are obsessed with versatility. Conceptually it makes sense, but rather than have guys spend time working at different positions all offseason, why not find guys that are naturally capable of playing multiple positions in a pinch but allow them to spend most of their time practicing at their natural positions? Take Tippmann. He’s been really bad at C, his natural position. Instead of giving him a handful of snaps their this offseason, the Jets should’ve given him the most snaps their so that he could be comfortable there. You know he’s talented enough to play G; there was no reason to give him reps there- he needed the mental reps at C. It also disrupts chemistry because none of these guys are playing in their natural spots together. Then injury is a whole other topic- whatever the Jets are doing is backwards. 

I have no idea how Douglas is going to fix this unit in one offseason. Tippmann and AVT are the only two players I can confidently say will be back as starters entering the offseason. I have faith Tippmann will improve at C but they can also commit to them at RG and move AVT back to his natural LG position if they decide to move on from Tomlinson. I think Mitchell should be transitioned to backup RG. I think Warren might be a good backup T. Schweitzer can come back as a backup C/G. After that they’re likely going to need to add 2 new starting tackles (unless Mekhi is willing to come back on another 1-year deal) and some capable backups. Even if you hit home runs there, it does not fix the chemistry and injury problems- that’s where I believe the Jets need to take a deep dive in trying to solve

[mudcat22]

Douglas totally mismanaged stocking the OL.  He went for quantity over quality signing a bunch of backups who suck.

[Gen X Jet]

Outmaneuvered. https://steelersnow.com/steelers-make-broderick-jones-full-time-starter-at-right-tackle/

[Jetworks]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

This is by far the worst offensive line I’ve ever watched. Everything about it is bad, so the coach deserves blame, but I don’t think it’s that simple. John Benton is a good OL coach but he dealt with a lot of similar issues. 

I think scheme fit for some guys is a real problem, but as I’ve said in other threads I also think it’s more so their organizational philosophy and training regiment. Saleh and Douglas are obsessed with versatility. Conceptually it makes sense, but rather than have guys spend time working at different positions all offseason, why not find guys that are naturally capable of playing multiple positions in a pinch but allow them to spend most of their time practicing at their natural positions? Take Tippmann. He’s been really bad at C, his natural position. Instead of giving him a handful of snaps their this offseason, the Jets should’ve given him the most snaps their so that he could be comfortable there. You know he’s talented enough to play G; there was no reason to give him reps there- he needed the mental reps at C. It also disrupts chemistry because none of these guys are playing in their natural spots together. Then injury is a whole other topic- whatever the Jets are doing is backwards. 

I have no idea how Douglas is going to fix this unit in one offseason. Tippmann and AVT are the only two players I can confidently say will be back as starters entering the offseason. I have faith Tippmann will improve at C but they can also commit to them at RG and move AVT back to his natural LG position if they decide to move on from Tomlinson. I think Mitchell should be transitioned to backup RG. I think Warren might be a good backup T. Schweitzer can come back as a backup C/G. After that they’re likely going to need to add 2 new starting tackles (unless Mekhi is willing to come back on another 1-year deal) and some capable backups. Even if you hit home runs there, it does not fix the chemistry and injury problems- that’s where I believe the Jets need to take a deep dive in trying to solve

Waitaminute!!! The Jets have TWO OL/run game coordinators!?!?!?!? This ******* team. 

I think TIppmann has been serviceable as a rookie thus far. Everything I've seen from an analysis standpoint supports that, but I know you have actual access compared to me, so....

[UntouchableCrew]

Good teams have a great OL coach and develop these guys. Get the most out of them. Jets, injury issues aside, are getting the least out of them. Entire offensive coaching staff needs to be overhauled from the studs.

[Same Old Jets]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

I have no idea how Douglas is going to fix this unit in one offseason

He needs another 4 years to figure it out.  He is awful, stop the madness and admit it please! 

[SickJetFan]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

This is by far the worst offensive line I’ve ever watched. Everything about it is bad, so the coach deserves blame, but I don’t think it’s that simple. John Benton is a good OL coach but he dealt with a lot of similar issues. 

I think scheme fit for some guys is a real problem, but as I’ve said in other threads I also think it’s more so their organizational philosophy and training regiment. Saleh and Douglas are obsessed with versatility. Conceptually it makes sense, but rather than have guys spend time working at different positions all offseason, why not find guys that are naturally capable of playing multiple positions in a pinch but allow them to spend most of their time practicing at their natural positions? Take Tippmann. He’s been really bad at C, his natural position. Instead of giving him a handful of snaps their this offseason, the Jets should’ve given him the most snaps their so that he could be comfortable there. You know he’s talented enough to play G; there was no reason to give him reps there- he needed the mental reps at C. It also disrupts chemistry because none of these guys are playing in their natural spots together. Then injury is a whole other topic- whatever the Jets are doing is backwards. 

I have no idea how Douglas is going to fix this unit in one offseason. Tippmann and AVT are the only two players I can confidently say will be back as starters entering the offseason. I have faith Tippmann will improve at C but they can also commit to them at RG and move AVT back to his natural LG position if they decide to move on from Tomlinson. I think Mitchell should be transitioned to backup RG. I think Warren might be a good backup T. Schweitzer can come back as a backup C/G. After that they’re likely going to need to add 2 new starting tackles (unless Mekhi is willing to come back on another 1-year deal) and some capable backups. Even if you hit home runs there, it does not fix the chemistry and injury problems- that’s where I believe the Jets need to take a deep dive in trying to solve

I think you left out how they changed to a pure zone scheme upon Saleh hire even though they didnt have the personal for it.  I believe they tried to back off a bit this season but not sure but I am beginning to not care.

[Lurker89]

The OL- a sitcom brought to you by the New York Jets and Cymbalta.

[Bungaman]

1 hour ago, Lurker89 said:

The OL- a sitcom brought to you by the New York Jets and Cymbalta.

"Habitual watching can cause unexpected side effects, including loss of appetite, numbness, nausea, spontaneous violence upon inanimate objects, heart attack, stroke, erectile dysfunction, disorientation, or hemorrhoids. Or all of those."

[Larz]

Yes, it is offensive 

[SickJetFan]

so I was bored and I used https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2023/gamelog/ for reference to count how many OL the jets had on IR for either all or part of a season and came up with

2013 Record: 8-8-0-  0
2014 Record: 4-12-0- 1 Brian Winters
2015 Record: 10-6-0- 1 Willie Colon
2016 Record: 5-11-0- 4 Clady, Giacomini, Mangold, Winters
2017 Record: 5-11-0- 1 Brian Winters
2018 Record: 4-12-0- 3 Carpenter, Ijalana, Shell
2019 Record: 7-9-0-  4 Edoga, Kalil, Qvale, Winters
2020 Record: 2-14-0- 4 Clark, Koloamatangi, Lewis, Roten
2021 Record: 4-13-0- 8 Becton, Clark, Edoga, Fant, Ferguson, McDermott, McGovern, Saltes
2022 Record: 7-10-0- 8 Becton, Brown, Fant, Herbig, Mitchell, Ogbuehi, Senat, AVT
2023 Record: 4-7-0-  5 Brown, McGovern, Schweitzer, AVT, Warren

 

not blaming Saleh and co because injuries do happen but it is interesting how the number of doubled since he got here

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

OL and QB

big whiffs on the 2 most important position groups in the game of football

what a joke

[Ron Rico]

I said it before but obviously it needs repeating; an offensive line needs to practice together, play together. Familiarity leads to being comfortable and that's what the Center, the Guards, and the Tackles have to be. 

You don't take tackles and arbitrarily make them guards, mmkay? You don't replace two guards at the same time. You dam sure don't change up the LT every other game. 

It's not that these guys as individuals "suck" it's that the GM and coaches suck so bad at their jobs that these guys are moved around in panic moves, not so much to fix the problem, but to make it look like they are doing something to fix the problem. 

The best thing the idiots that run this team can do over the next 6 games is give the current line up a chance to play together for the rest of the season, for better or worse. I get it, McGovern and AVT got injured, and had to be replaced, but every damn week they move them around because of some CYA agenda. 

Leave the line as it is. Finish out the season with these guys. Period. 

Stupid ******* assholes run this team.

[Hael]

I think there are multiple problems going on here.

From a talent and skill perspective, IMO our line is more than adequate.  Duane Brown, Becton, AVT, Tippman, CmG, Laken is a better squad than the majority of the league.  I'll die on that hill!  So what went wrong..

The first and most obvious is continuity and playtime.  At no point did we get a completely healthy line that could gel.  It takes time in the NFL for Olines to synch, and ours simply never got that chance.

The second is injury attrition.  No team in the NFL has units 10-12 deep, and well Douglas simply ran out of resources to go and get them after he had to go out and pay the piper for Rogers and co. 

The third is protection calls.  This is supposedly the qbs job in this offense, and well after AR went down its clear the qbs didnt have the ability to correctly perform.

And then we get into chemistry.  Whether thats Becton starting the year playing RT, or Max not liking the scheme, everyone hating Metlife turf, or the disaster when we had Becton and Laken trying to play together to deal with stunt packages against Micah Parsons.

I don't know about coaching, but well it didn't seem all that great either. 

My takeaway is that everything that could go wrong, did go wrong, and unfortunately that's more or less a wrap on the 2023 year.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

4 hours ago, Gen X Jet said:

Outmaneuvered. https://steelersnow.com/steelers-make-broderick-jones-full-time-starter-at-right-tackle/

Like the saying goes in poker, if you’re at the table and you don’t know who the patsy is, it’s you.

Even more embarrassing for Joe Douglas was his obvious conceit on display when the Jets released that war room vid after the fact and he was almost inviting the Steelers to take the OT.

More pathetic when you think somebody else is the patsy when it’s actually you.

[Ron Rico]

8 minutes ago, Hael said:

I think there are multiple problems going on here.

From a talent and skill perspective, IMO our line is more than adequate.  Duane Brown, Becton, AVT, Tippman, CmG, Laken is a better squad than the majority of the league.  I'll die on that hill!  So what went wrong..

The first and most obvious is continuity and playtime.  At no point did we get a completely healthy line that could gel.  It takes time in the NFL for Olines to synch, and ours simply never got that chance.

The second is injury attrition.  No team in the NFL has units 10-12 deep, and well Douglas simply ran out of resources to go and get them after he had to go out and pay the piper for Rogers and co. 

The third is protection calls.  This is supposedly the qbs job in this offense, and well after AR went down its clear the qbs didnt have the ability to correctly perform.

And then we get into chemistry.  Whether thats Becton starting the year playing RT, or Max not liking the scheme, everyone hating Metlife turf, or the disaster when we had Becton and Laken trying to play together to deal with stunt packages against Micah Parsons.

I don't know about coaching, but well it didn't seem all that great either. 

My takeaway is that everything that could go wrong, did go wrong, and unfortunately that's more or less a wrap on the 2023 year.

Great post. 

The MetLife field is garbage. I have no doubt it contributed to injuries. 

Reading your post, I came up with the idea that Meat Neck Saleh, who likes to have too many D-linemen because he likes to cycle them in and out during the game, maybe it was his brilliant idea that you don't need a solid unit, 5 solid O-linemen, that you just need a dozen sh*tbags you could continually cycle in and out during the game? LOL I wouldn't doubt it. This team is run by idiots. Meat neck and Meathead JD. 

[SickJetFan]

 

[Ron Rico]

1 hour ago, SickJetFan said:

 

the play calling was atrocious. Nobody open. Ever. 

[HighPitch]

6 hours ago, football guy said:

This is by far the worst offensive line I’ve ever watched. Everything about it is bad, so the coach deserves blame, but I don’t think it’s that simple. John Benton is a good OL coach but he dealt with a lot of similar issues. 

I think scheme fit for some guys is a real problem, but as I’ve said in other threads I also think it’s more so their organizational philosophy and training regiment. Saleh and Douglas are obsessed with versatility. Conceptually it makes sense, but rather than have guys spend time working at different positions all offseason, why not find guys that are naturally capable of playing multiple positions in a pinch but allow them to spend most of their time practicing at their natural positions? Take Tippmann. He’s been really bad at C, his natural position. Instead of giving him a handful of snaps their this offseason, the Jets should’ve given him the most snaps their so that he could be comfortable there. You know he’s talented enough to play G; there was no reason to give him reps there- he needed the mental reps at C. It also disrupts chemistry because none of these guys are playing in their natural spots together. Then injury is a whole other topic- whatever the Jets are doing is backwards. 

I have no idea how Douglas is going to fix this unit in one offseason. Tippmann and AVT are the only two players I can confidently say will be back as starters entering the offseason. I have faith Tippmann will improve at C but they can also commit to them at RG and move AVT back to his natural LG position if they decide to move on from Tomlinson. I think Mitchell should be transitioned to backup RG. I think Warren might be a good backup T. Schweitzer can come back as a backup C/G. After that they’re likely going to need to add 2 new starting tackles (unless Mekhi is willing to come back on another 1-year deal) and some capable backups. Even if you hit home runs there, it does not fix the chemistry and injury problems- that’s where I believe the Jets need to take a deep dive in trying to solve

Cadigan and criswell say hi

[Sonny Werblin]

Why was Keith Carter the best candidate for the Jets O line coach job? Well, he’s friends with Robert Saleh from their time in Seattle together of course.

I am so sick and tired of Saleh hiring is friends and past acquaintances. He is a slogan reliant joke of a HC. The Jets can’t fire him fast enough. He will never be a winner because guys like him can’t make the hard decisions. 

[Rich Thornburgh]

Sign Kevin Zeitler and Trent Brown.  Bring Becton back on a 1 year extension at reasonable money

[SickJetFan]

https://jetsxfactor.com/2023/11/14/key-person-blame-ny-jets-offensive-futility/

[SickJetFan]

https://jetsxfactor.com/2023/11/21/whats-behind-ny-jets-ol-injuries/

[bealeb319]

Our offensive line is as bad as you would expect it to be with a bunch of third string guys. What blows my mind is where are they getting help from our receivers and tight ends? If you can't catch the ball atleast throw a block on your way.

[football guy]

On 11/25/2023 at 12:33 PM, football guy said:

This is by far the worst offensive line I’ve ever watched. Everything about it is bad, so the coach deserves blame, but I don’t think it’s that simple. John Benton is a good OL coach but he dealt with a lot of similar issues. 

I think scheme fit for some guys is a real problem, but as I’ve said in other threads I also think it’s more so their organizational philosophy and training regiment. Saleh and Douglas are obsessed with versatility. Conceptually it makes sense, but rather than have guys spend time working at different positions all offseason, why not find guys that are naturally capable of playing multiple positions in a pinch but allow them to spend most of their time practicing at their natural positions? Take Tippmann. He’s been really bad at C, his natural position. Instead of giving him a handful of snaps their this offseason, the Jets should’ve given him the most snaps their so that he could be comfortable there. You know he’s talented enough to play G; there was no reason to give him reps there- he needed the mental reps at C. It also disrupts chemistry because none of these guys are playing in their natural spots together. Then injury is a whole other topic- whatever the Jets are doing is backwards. 

I have no idea how Douglas is going to fix this unit in one offseason. Tippmann and AVT are the only two players I can confidently say will be back as starters entering the offseason. I have faith Tippmann will improve at C but they can also commit to them at RG and move AVT back to his natural LG position if they decide to move on from Tomlinson. I think Mitchell should be transitioned to backup RG. I think Warren might be a good backup T. Schweitzer can come back as a backup C/G. After that they’re likely going to need to add 2 new starting tackles (unless Mekhi is willing to come back on another 1-year deal) and some capable backups. Even if you hit home runs there, it does not fix the chemistry and injury problems- that’s where I believe the Jets need to take a deep dive in trying to solve

Another point to add to this: 

Saleh's philosophy on the defensive line (rest, rotate, and use guys in different spots), does not work with the the offensive line. 

[TuscanyTile2]

On 11/25/2023 at 5:16 PM, SickJetFan said:

 

On 11/25/2023 at 6:41 PM, Ron Rico said:

the play calling was atrocious. Nobody open. Ever. 

Terrible OL, only 1 NFL caliber WR.  

[bitonti]

On 11/25/2023 at 4:51 PM, Hael said:

From a talent and skill perspective, IMO our line is more than adequate.  Duane Brown, Becton, AVT, Tippman, CmG, Laken is a better squad than the majority of the league.  I'll die on that hill!  So what went wrong..

 

Respectfully disagree the Jets line has a talent problem compared to other teams

Let's go player by player

LT Brown - done as a player should definately be retired (instead of the 4th highest cap hit on team and contributing nothing)

LT2 Becton - Injury prone, good in run blocking bad in pass protection and they turned down his 5th year option so he's gone  

LG Laken - basically done, 31 year old not athletic (ras score of 4, from Duke), best known for playing next to Trent Williams should be retired

C CmG - literally PFF's worst center before he got hurt, also should be retired. 

RG Tippmann - very good upside but looks better at G than C so far

RT AVT - not a tackle, playing out of position, 2 season ending injuries in a row

no pro Bowlers, no all pros that's not an above average group, even if it all plays out "best case" 

Brown and Tomlinson are former Pro Bowlers but that form is long gone 

look around at the teams with good OL they have multiple Pro Bowlers, All Pros, good young depth guys in the pipeline etc 

the Jets OL is almost a total rebuild

 

 

[bitonti]

On 11/26/2023 at 3:30 AM, Rich Thornburgh said:

Sign Kevin Zeitler and Trent Brown.  Bring Becton back on a 1 year extension at reasonable money

Why would Zeitler or Brown even want to sign here? They are one and done types looking for a ring at best

Ditto Becton the coaches treat him like garbage and put him on blast for multiple seasons while kissing Zach's ass 

 

[The Crusher]

On 11/25/2023 at 5:16 PM, SickJetFan said:

 

Good hustleTimmy, good hustle. 

[Sperm Edwards]

On 11/26/2023 at 3:30 AM, Rich Thornburgh said:

Sign Kevin Zeitler and Trent Brown.  Bring Becton back on a 1 year extension at reasonable money

What's the incentive for Becton to do such a thing?

[Wit]

Another point to add to this: 
Saleh's philosophy on the defensive line (rest, rotate, and use guys in different spots), does not work with the the offensive line. 

What you’re really saying is that it’s probably time to clean house. Rodgers wasn’t going to survive the season with this O line regardless.

[Dunnie]

Another point to add to this: 
Saleh's philosophy on the defensive line (rest, rotate, and use guys in different spots), does not work with the the offensive line. 

THANK YOU ... The Offensive line is the Taurus of football positions ... They need consistency and familiarity more than any other unit.

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