Some thoughts on the season ..

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

A lot of good board debate on a number of issues.  Often lines drawn in the sand ..

I tend to view the world as more gray than black vs white.  Good thoughts on both sides of an argument.

1. Woody, JD, Saleh, Hackett, & Rodgers are ALL to blame.  Doesn’t have to be one vs the other.  Their synergies created the perfect storm

2. Many teams would have drafted Zach.  Heck, some teams would have traded up for him

3. The monumental mistake wasn’t necessarily the draft pick, as bad as it was.  It has been not moving on sooner.  A well run team like the 49ers recovered quickly from trading up for Trey Lance

4. A lot of revisionist history on the Rodgers trade.  ‘Most’ here supported it and accepted guys like Cobb and Turner as bit pieces to make Rodgers more comfortable.  Lazard was supposed to be the #3 WR (‘big slot’) behind Corey Davis

5. The lack of a front office response to Davis’ retirement and Rodgers’ injury (thru the pre trade deadline) sent the wrong message to a team that has started to tune out their leaders (aka quit)

6. How can you argue with those who say the Jets don’t seem to care about winning?  A slap on the face to their fans and to many players in that locker room.  IMO, that’s why this season feels worse

7. Look at the Vikings who actually traded for and now might be benching Dobbs after a 4 interception game.  At least they are trying to figure out QB after a season ending injury 

8. Or the Bills who traded little for a quality starting CB

9. Despite cries that the Rodgers trade sent the Jets back years, they can actually quickly recover with a fairly healthy cap, some obvious cuts, a number of talented young players and some lessons learned.

10.  Will they learn?  How can anyone feel confident?  Fool us 13 straight years, shame on us .. a group of die hards whose collective ideas would have avoided the disaster we have witnessed these past several weeks

11. I have actually started to tune the Jets out.  Maybe at 49, I kind of want to enjoy my Sundays and have a team earn my fandom.  Why should I care if the leaders don’t seem to care about winning?   

[Adoni Beast]

I agree with most of this.

• They drafted Wilson but he was so raw he never should have started Year 1 or at the very least been given the job with no vet competition.

• If they wanted Zach to learn behind Rodgers then he never should have been the #2 QB. Again, a vet was needed.

• Core Davis retirement, Rodgers injury, OL injuries = no movement from FO = we’re punting on this season

• Rodgers trade was one we had to make and should have made…but Jets luck…

• OL was an issue all offseason and barely addressed

Overall, the team is poorly run and lives by PLAN A, accepting complete defeat when things go wrong and never pivots to a PLAN B.

[Trotter]

Agree with most as well but have a slightly different take on item #6

I do believe Woody cares about winning. Over the years he has spent money, paid multiple coaches after firing etc and most recently fires up his plane to go get Rodgers. You simply don't do that if you don't care about winning.

Others will say Rodgers was about selling tickets etc but realistically what they are paying him they are not getting back in increased ticket sales etc.

To me he cares - but the org gets complacent if they don't. Woody knows no matter what happens, that stadium is 75% sold let alone his market share, tv revenue etc. Losing really does not hurt his bottom line so it is af if he says - oh well that didn't work so lets try something else.

I don't have the magic answer but everytime it looks like he finally gets it right - it goes to sh_t in a year or two   

Hire someone who's sole responsibility it is to control football operations - great. Who is interviewing and hirng that person? Woody? Consultants?

It just never works but in my opinion specifically to Woody - I do think he wants to win - he does not know how.

[Warfish]

12 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

• They drafted Wilson but he was so raw he never should have started Year 1 or at the very least been given the job with no vet competition.

Jet Fans Then:  Zach must start right away, and no wasting spots on veteran QB's behind him, we need to spend all our assets on supporting Zach.  He's elite, he's our future, he's ready day 1!

Many of those very same Jets Fans Now:  Zach should have sat for several years, and we definitely needed to sign a veteran to start ahead of him till he was ready!

I sure would love to see some of those who absolutely and loudly demanded he start without competition (and endlessly insulted guys like me who called for him to sit, have to earn the job via his play, and to sign a legit starter to hold the fort till Zach proved he was ready) admit just how wrong they were instead of pretending they knew all along.

[Adoni Beast]

20 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Jet Fans Then:  Zach must start right away, and no wasting spots on veteran QB's behind him, we need to spend all our assets on supporting Zach.  He's elite, he's our future, he's ready day 1!

Many of those very same Jets Fans Now:  Zach should have sat for several years, and we definitely needed to sign a veteran to start ahead of him till he was ready!

I sure would love to see some of those who absolutely and loudly demanded he start without competition (and endlessly insulted guys like me who called for him to sit, have to earn the job via his play, and to sign a legit starter to hold the fort till Zach proved he was ready) admit just how wrong they were instead of pretending they knew all along.

That whole offseason I said the Jets should start a vet and let Wilson learn, even if it took the whole season.

It was a new regime, after a horrible stretch and we needed to build some sort of winning foundation. Even if they kept Darnold, or tried to trade for Jimmy G, whoever it was, they really needed someone to play for a year.

[billo83]

39 minutes ago, Trotter said:

 

It just never works but in my opinion specifically to Woody - I do think he wants to win - he does not know how.

He's his own worst enemy. If he would stop his meddling,  he may be able to hire a guy like Shanahan,  but he can't help himself 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 hour ago, Trotter said:

Agree with most as well but have a slightly different take on item #6

I do believe Woody cares about winning. Over the years he has spent money, paid multiple coaches after firing etc and most recently fires up his plane to go get Rodgers. You simply don't do that if you don't care about winning.

Others will say Rodgers was about selling tickets etc but realistically what they are paying him they are not getting back in increased ticket sales etc.

To me he cares - but the org gets complacent if they don't. Woody knows no matter what happens, that stadium is 75% sold let alone his market share, tv revenue etc. Losing really does not hurt his bottom line so it is af if he says - oh well that didn't work so lets try something else.

I don't have the magic answer but everytime it looks like he finally gets it right - it goes to sh_t in a year or two   

Hire someone who's sole responsibility it is to control football operations - great. Who is interviewing and hirng that person? Woody? Consultants?

It just never works but in my opinion specifically to Woody - I do think he wants to win - he does not know how.

Love the last line ;).  You’d think he does want to win for Christ’s sake.  Most owners have huge egos and don’t like to be embarrassed.    I don’t know which is scarier, him not prioritizing winning or him not knowing how to win.  Lucky us

 

 

[JiFtheOracle]

2 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

11. I have actually started to tune the Jets out.  Maybe at 49, I kind of want to enjoy my Sundays and have a team earn my fandom.  Why should I care if the leaders don’t seem to care about winning?   

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Adoni Beast said:

That whole offseason I said the Jets should start a vet and let Wilson learn, even if it took the whole season.

It was a new regime, after a horrible stretch and we needed to build some sort of winning foundation. Even if they kept Darnold, or tried to trade for Jimmy G, whoever it was, they really needed someone to play for a year.

Wasn't aimed at you personally.  The folks it applies to know who they are, lol.

[Ecuadorian Jet]

2 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

 

10.  Will they learn?  How can anyone feel confident?  Fool us 13 straight years, shame on us .. a group of die hards whose collective ideas would have avoided the disaster we have witnessed these past several weeks

11. I have actually started to tune the Jets out.  Maybe at 49, I kind of want to enjoy my Sundays and have a team earn my fandom.  Why should I care if the leaders don’t seem to care about winning?   

10. No they won't. Not because I say it, but because history says it. The shroud of secrecy and PR oriented philosophy, instead of an football oriented one, makes everything absolutely worst for the Jets. This compounded with poor decisions from poorly intelligent and or weak character individuals will forever perpetuate what we have seen from the Jets.

11. I'm a few years away from 49, but will get there. I took a 10 year break from the Jets, and I am starting to get the feeling the next break will be longer.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

I still think the Jets can fix this mess in 1 offseason but am not confident they will do so.

The consensus In a site poll last week:

1. Draft LT round 1

2. Sign FA WR Tee Higgins or Mike Evans

3. Let Becton walk.  Need a durable upgrade and cannot afford the $20M franchise tag or risk a long term investment

3. Cut Mosley if he doesn’t reduce his $17M salary …..

4. Reallocate to a starting FA RT (haha, that’s funny)

5. Sign a top tier free agent backup QB.  Look at Minshew, as many here suggested last year.  

6. Consider doubling down with a mid round QB

7. Release Zach.  Kid tried but has become a distraction the team would be best served to move on from

 

[Sperm Edwards]

11 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I still think the Jets can fix this mess in 1 offseason but am not confident they will do so.

The consensus In a site poll last week:

1. Draft LT round 1

2. Sign FA WR Tee Higgins or Mike Evans

3. Let Becton walk.  Need a durable upgrade and cannot afford the $20M franchise tag or risk a long term investment

3. Cut Mosley if he doesn’t reduce his $17M salary …..

4. Reallocate to a starting FA RT (haha, that’s funny)

5. Sign a top tier free agent backup QB.  Look at Minshew, as many here suggested last year.  

6. Consider doubling down with a mid round QB

7. Release Zach.  Kid tried but has become a distraction the team would be best served to move on from

 

I'd add another guard in there, too. Tomlinson isn't worth another $13MM. His only asset has been his health, but then Tomlinson always being on the field isn't itself so glorious. 

Agree on Becton. They can't have two high-risk injuries on the line, and they're clearly not parting ways with AVT, so Becton - who'd require a major reinvestment - should be the odd man out. 

Also don't care if the tackles get swapped (rookie is at RT, vet at LT) if FA plays out that way. Would love for one of the two to be Warren, but they have to let him start the rest of the season - and do a good job of it, improving more & more - before I could advocate for that. Still need two others (my confidence level in Mitchell has waned badly) as 1x starter / 1x depth, or 2x depth, assuming the round 1 pick is a tackle. Even that depends on our slot; the lower we go the less we can be confident in who's likely to be there when we pick, without fear of being leapfrogged if it seems the worst-kept secret that we're all-in on drafting _____ at tackle.

[rangerous]

25 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I still think the Jets can fix this mess in 1 offseason but am not confident they will do so.

The consensus In a site poll last week:

1. Draft LT round 1

2. Sign FA WR Tee Higgins or Mike Evans

3. Let Becton walk.  Need a durable upgrade and cannot afford the $20M franchise tag or risk a long term investment

3. Cut Mosley if he doesn’t reduce his $17M salary …..

4. Reallocate to a starting FA RT (haha, that’s funny)

5. Sign a top tier free agent backup QB.  Look at Minshew, as many here suggested last year.  

6. Consider doubling down with a mid round QB

7. Release Zach.  Kid tried but has become a distraction the team would be best served to move on from

 

I see a lot of what’s being written on jetsX.  I agree with most.  I still find it hard to say about Zach.  They’re on the hook to pay him whether he’s on the team or not.  And, from what I saw, Zach was way ahead of where he was last season so it’s still possible for him to be resurrected.  And he may have some good value in a trade.  But one item I’d add is to keep saleh as far away from the offense as possible.  Sure people complain about Hackett but he’s only executing salehs game philosophy which is basically ground and pound and keep the other team out of the end zone.  The problem here is an offense that can at least move the chains reliably will help the defense.  And one that scores points helps even more.  

[UnknownJetFan]

5 hours ago, Trotter said:

Agree with most as well but have a slightly different take on item #6

I do believe Woody cares about winning. Over the years he has spent money, paid multiple coaches after firing etc and most recently fires up his plane to go get Rodgers. You simply don't do that if you don't care about winning.

Others will say Rodgers was about selling tickets etc but realistically what they are paying him they are not getting back in increased ticket sales etc.

To me he cares - but the org gets complacent if they don't. Woody knows no matter what happens, that stadium is 75% sold let alone his market share, tv revenue etc. Losing really does not hurt his bottom line so it is af if he says - oh well that didn't work so lets try something else.

I don't have the magic answer but everytime it looks like he finally gets it right - it goes to sh_t in a year or two   

Hire someone who's sole responsibility it is to control football operations - great. Who is interviewing and hirng that person? Woody? Consultants?

It just never works but in my opinion specifically to Woody - I do think he wants to win - he does not know how.

Lets face it he wants to win more than Hess did. Hess would let coaches stay around for countless bad seasons like Walton, Coslet, etc. a he just lucked out getting Parcells. Woody tries everything there and would probably p$ss on a sparkplug if he thought it would help, but as you said he just does not know how to get this team turned around consistently. Lets see if Rogers going forward makes a difference especially if he continues to help run things and maybe buys part of the team. Maybe his aura changes the culture, maybe not. But, lets face it we are all out of answers. Nobody really wants to come and work for the Jets unless they have nothing else offered and those types are not worth having. So, we can all say higher someone good but the reality is someone really good would rather work for another team. It is like the draft every year when we all say trade down and get a haul, but no trade partner ever wants to do that with the Jets or the player that is highly wanted never falls to us. We just need a major break or breakthrough that never seems to come. We all say get another owner and this owner we have is nit good but still somewhat better than Hess was.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'd add another guard in there, too. Tomlinson isn't worth another $13MM. His only asset has been his health, but then Tomlinson always being on the field isn't itself so glorious. 

Agree on Becton. They can't have two high-risk injuries on the line, and they're clearly not parting ways with AVT, so Becton - who'd require a major reinvestment - should be the odd man out. 

Also don't care if the tackles get swapped (rookie is at RT, vet at LT) if FA plays out that way. Would love for one of the two to be Warren, but they have to let him start the rest of the season - and do a good job of it, improving more & more - before I could advocate for that. Still need two others (my confidence level in Mitchell has waned badly) as 1x starter / 1x depth, or 2x depth, assuming the round 1 pick is a tackle. Even that depends on our slot; the lower we go the less we can be confident in who's likely to be there when we pick, without fear of being leapfrogged if it seems the worst-kept secret that we're all-in on drafting _____ at tackle.

Agreed on Tomlinson.  An averaging starting free agent guard would seem to be in the $5-6M annual range

My swing tackle is Warren if he can earn it this year.  I get my 4th OT in round 4, where we have 2 picks.  I don't think Mitchell is the guy, unless they're confident he can significantly increase his core strength.

I also take a mid round center/guard to pair with Schweitzer as the reserve interior.

[southparkcpa]

6 hours ago, JiF said:

We are Jags..............

[Beerfish]

[fltflo]

Listen, years ago the rookie, no matter how good he was in college or how great he looked in practice after he got drafted, ever started. They sat and watched and learned, and asked questions from the veteran running the team at the time.
The last time the Jets followed this plan Chad Pennington was the result. Although Chad had a tough career he was the come back player on two different team and took the teams to the playoffs.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[varjet]

On 11/29/2023 at 10:28 AM, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I still think the Jets can fix this mess in 1 offseason but am not confident they will do so.

The consensus In a site poll last week:

1. Draft LT round 1

2. Sign FA WR Tee Higgins or Mike Evans

3. Let Becton walk.  Need a durable upgrade and cannot afford the $20M franchise tag or risk a long term investment

3. Cut Mosley if he doesn’t reduce his $17M salary …..

4. Reallocate to a starting FA RT (haha, that’s funny)

5. Sign a top tier free agent backup QB.  Look at Minshew, as many here suggested last year.  

6. Consider doubling down with a mid round QB

7. Release Zach.  Kid tried but has become a distraction the team would be best served to move on from

 

This is all very doable and would make a big difference. 

[varjet]

On 11/30/2023 at 6:11 AM, fltflo said:

Listen, years ago the rookie, no matter how good he was in college or how great he looked in practice after he got drafted, ever started. They sat and watched and learned, and asked questions from the veteran running the team at the time.
The last time the Jets followed this plan Chad Pennington was the result. Although Chad had a tough career he was the come back player on two different team and took the teams to the playoffs.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

I think this is Woody.  He wants a marquee QB and because he is paying them they need to start or be QB2.  His hang ups interfere with football reality.